Newbie 1920: North America [Endgame]

[scum reading]

I could've easily parked my vote on ASC and getting a lynch on her, but I town read her.

Are you saying you're good at convincing people to vote with you?

I see what you're trying to do, I'm not dumb.

[scum reading]

I don’t like you townreading people based on wording, I didn’t even give that post too much attention since it was rvs. You town read people based on single posts, just like you did with wazoo. Your reads smell funny,

you’re getting too defensive

, which is what I wanted.

What would you make of your own reaction to a wagon? You seem pretty defensive...

I requested a hammer on me, how's that reacting defensive lol. I'm just mad that I'm going to die because of such a weak case, that's all

[scum reading]

If I flip town, who would the next accusation be thrown on to?
If I flip scum, who would the next accusation be thrown on to?

That's scummy af. I saw it at another site, so I tried it in my first scum game here. It didn't work.

I'm not you though. You said you were reading mastina articles, didn't you read the gambit thing? It's perfectly reasonable.

VOTE: Persivul

[scum reading]

If I get hammered, after my flip, take a look back on my reads. I'll tell them again so you don't have to check back.

Townies: ASC, Zeito, Skelleden, teacher.

Scum: Persivul

This is one of my actual scum reads, rest was just messing around getting info.

[teacher]

I’m now town on Zeito too. Sell me on ASC, please? They’re still in my sort range.

[scum reading]

Persivul is the opposite of me rn, I place votes on people with only 1 vote and persivul hopped on wagons. He hopped on chennis, and now on me. He's rather opportunistic without providing any information. Remember my scum read and don't disregard it please. I don't like Persivul's game play at the moment.

[scum reading]

I’m now town on Zeito too. Sell me on ASC, please? They’re still in my sort range.

I believe I already made a case on her. Her posts still look town, especially her newest ones. Nothing suggests scum and she was one of the leading wagons, that's a new one given that in the past few days nobody had more than 3 votes, that should be a good clue to her alignment. A wagon built on an rvs vote sure had scum on it as well. Like Persivul.

[Persivul]

I requested a hammer on me, how's that reacting defensive lol.

If you're town, that's playing against wincon.

You're either admitting you're scum, or admitting that you're breaking one of the top two site rules.

[scum reading]

I have been playing like town and I still am. I gave townies scum. I gave townies their block that they can update. I've been gathering information for them all day. I'm not playing against my wincon.

[scum reading]

I requested a hammer on me, how's that reacting defensive lol.

If you're town, that's playing against wincon.

You're either admitting you're scum, or admitting that you're breaking one of the top two site rules.

How's requesting a hammer on me playing against my wincon. You've been here enough to see people voting themselves and requesting getting night-killed and lynch and you are saying this right now? Are you really that desperate to get my lynched? You're now using this meta level of wincon to get me lynched? lmao

[Persivul]

How's requesting a hammer on me playing against my wincon.

A townie's death is against his wincon, unless he feels his flip will provide significant information to town. Yet, you said that your flip wouldn't provide such information (and didn't explain why that is when I asked BTW).

If you're town and think your flip won't provide information, then advocating your own lynch is playing against wincon.

You've been here enough to see people voting themselves and requesting getting night-killed and lynch

Yep, and I've seen townies hammer themselves - and I've reported them for playing against wincon.

and you are saying this right now?

Yeah, I generally don't discuss it until someone has requested to be hammered.

Are you really that desperate to get my lynched? You're now using this meta level of wincon to get me lynched? lmao

I don't think you're playing against wincon, because I don't think you're town. I think you're scum saying

lynch me

for AtE.

[teacher]

put the vote somewhere else in about half an hour once I've had a good read through.

.....checks clock.....
What’s your reads?

[scum reading]

A townie's death is against his wincon

This argument is in your favour because I am aware of the rules and I can't quote the wincon. Requesting a hammer is AtE and not playing against your wincon, I still am leading a vote on scum and I haven't voted myself, so I'm not playing against my wincon. You are picking on a single post as well, but my overall posting was according to my wincon. Again, I gave town reads, I gathered information, it's town choice if they want to lynch me.

Yet, you said that your flip wouldn't provide such information (and didn't explain why that is when I asked BTW)

I asked you to give me a logical reasoning on who the next person would get accused if I'm lynched and I flipped town/scum, so it seems you're the one who avoided my question, actually. My request is hammer and not breaking site rules because I'm still game solving and defending myself, if I was breaking site rules I wouldn't have defended myself at all and kept requesting a hammer => my post was AtE.

Even you said and actually bolded me saying in my post "You're getting too defensive, which is what I wanted" and you said I was getting defensive. Getting defensive =/= playing against my wincon, you just refuted your own argument man. What else do you have against me? If I am town and I got defensive, then that means my hammer post was AtE.

[teacher]

Informal VC by Chennis’s request. Done by ISO and my notes, but please check me:
Scum Reading (2): Grand Wazoo (184); Persivul (189)
Zeito: Sekaedy (41)
Persivul: Scum reading (227)
Teacher: Zeito (36)
Chenis: Teacher (39)
Not Voting: Chennis (199); Skellen (175); TheASC (198)

[scum reading]

teacher, if I somehow die, push persivul and sekaedy's replacement for me please.

[teacher]

OK, town is fairly divided. As a purely empirical matter, we want to rally around a lynch and get an intent in the next 24 hours so that there is time to react to any role claim and arrange an alternate wagon if necessary. My reads have been altered somewhat from a couple days ago, so I am going to re-iso and propose my lynch target with a case.

PEdit: Im way off scum Persivul, but the Sekaedy slot looks interesting to me today. So does either ASC or Chennis prior to my reread.

[teacher]

@ those scum reading scum reading (couldnt resist), I get why, but I also see alot of town motivation for his actions. Regardless, in my view it is better to leave him alive spewing across the thread during day 2, because if scum he provides more associatives. Even if you think he is scum, I might hunt for his partner on this low-information day.

[Persivul]

This argument is in your favour because I am aware of the rules and I can't quote the wincon.

Requesting a hammer is AtE

and not playing against your wincon, I still am leading a vote on scum and I haven't voted myself, so I'm not playing against my wincon. You are picking on a single post as well, but my overall posting was according to my wincon. Again, I gave town reads, I gathered information, it's town choice if they want to lynch me.

OK. As I said, I don't really think you're playing against wincon. I think you're scum.

I asked you to give me a logical reasoning on who the next person would get accused if I'm lynched and I flipped town/scum, so it seems you're the one who avoided my question, actually.

No, you don't answer a question by rephrasing it and asking the questioner to answer it for you. But let's go with that. Suppose you're right and we can't get information from your flip. What does that say about your play today? You're a hard null? You're equally townie and scummy?

Even you said and actually bolded me saying in my post "You're getting too defensive, which is what I wanted" and you said I was getting defensive. Getting defensive =/= playing against my wincon, you just refuted your own argument man. What else do you have against me? If I am town and I got defensive, then that means my hammer post was AtE.

Now yu're trying to switch my arguments that you're scum to the argument that you're playing against wincon, which again, I really don't hold.

You seem to think that when people get defensive from being pushed that's SCUMMY (note I didn't mention wincon). You got pushed and got defensive (and you didn't get higher than L-2). That's SCUMMY (again, has nothing to do with wincon) by your own criteria.

[scum reading]

If you had an issue with my post, you would've reported it in a pm to the mod, instead you use it to make me look more suspicious, Persivul, you're a special one.

[Persivul]

If you had an issue with my post, you would've reported it in a pm to the mod, instead you use it to make me look more suspicious, Persivul, you're a special one.

I used it to pressure you. That's called scum hunting.

[teacher]

I’m now town on Zeito too. Sell me on ASC, please? They’re still in my sort range.

I believe I already made a case on her. Her posts still look town, especially her newest ones. Nothing suggests scum and she was one of the leading wagons, that's a new one given that in the past few days nobody had more than 3 votes, that should be a good clue to her alignment. A wagon built on an rvs vote sure had scum on it as well. Like Persivul.

All I see in your ISO justifying this is 110, where it is gut. I really want you to talk about your read on this slot, especially vis-a-vis your quasi-case on Chennis in 187

[scum reading]

If you had an issue with my post, you would've reported it in a pm to the mod, instead you use it to make me look more suspicious, Persivul, you're a special one.

I used it to pressure you. That's called scum hunting.

You used it to get me lynched no matter what and when I refuted your case, you look like a lion without fangs to me. Scum usually do that, go as far as to say stuff like that, stuff that shouldn't be discussed amongst players, but with a mod. But you didn't report it because you knew it wasn't playing against my wincon.

[teacher]

Zeito's reads on teacher also feel organically towny - they followed the mindset of town (though they could be faking as scum, it seems pretty organic to me)

I agree with this.

[teacher]

I have no time to check other player's games.

Talk to me a little bit more about this. You are playing a similar meta, but less involved than our last game. I just havent felt your drive as much, even though your questions and comments still feel on point. Whats going on?

[teacher]

So it seems weak, and it is admittedly low-info, but my push is on ASC, with a backup on Sekaedy's replacement. I see nothing to advance town win-con in either ISO. No real reads, no questions, etc. No effort to solve. Id rather ASC because there is a chance the replacement can town-spew once they are in.

Let me acknowledge the counter-case. These are low-hanging fruit targets that scum can easily lynch without much blame. But we are close to deadline without a consensus building. Id rather lynch potential scum that are, at most, potential town liabilities than lynch active players that I think sort themselves more in future days. Neither slot I have suggested has been involved in the game, and so would be harmful to have involved at a lylo where they would would both (a) be easy to shade as coasting scum, and (b) cannot themselves have game-saving cases from lack of being involved.

VOTE: TheASC