Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[Near x Mello]

cerb youre already locktown via robert so i dont particularly care about the chito thing that was most likely a lie anyway

I fear mastina will end up convincing people at this rate so the quicker she dies the better

[mastina]

If town, do things that find us scum so your mislynch doesn't lose us the game.

I already (bleeped because bleep the mod) have.

Want me to quote it?

[mastina]

I fear mastina will end up convincing people at this rate so the quicker she dies the better

HEY (bleeped because bleep the mod).
GUESS WHY THAT WOULD BE THE (bleeped because bleep the mod) CASE.

MAYBE IT IS BECAUSE.

IF PEOPLE ACTUALLY (bleeped because bleep the mod) LISTENED.

THEY WOULD (bleeped because bleep the mod) REALIZE I AM (bleeped because bleep the mod) RIGHT.
ABOUT THERE NOT BEING AN ACTUALLY VALID (bleeped because bleep the mod) REASON TO SCUMREAD ME.

AND THAT THE CASE ON ME IS UTTER (bleeped because bleep the mod).

[Elena Fisher]

Who's night 3 action has not been proven? We can make a poe list from that to find a lock scum.
I got a giant flavor text for visiting pink and I know he's town. Who else can we remove

[Cerberus v666]

cerb youre already locktown via robert so i dont particularly care about the chito thing that was most likely a lie anyway

I fear mastina will end up convincing people at this rate so the quicker she dies the better

Naw, having my own teammate who was likely to be lynched target me with an ability like Roberts is EXACTLY the sort of thing I'd do as scum.

So, it's not really something that keeps me from getting mislynched in lylo.

*shrug*

pedit: We took no action on N3.

[Near x Mello]

Who's night 3 action has not been proven? We can make a poe list from that to find a lock scum.
I got a giant flavor text for visiting pink and I know he's town. Who else can we remove

find lockscum how? Im not following

[mastina]

mastina, who's A50's partner?

It's

possible

to be Elena, but as previously discussed, I don't think so.
It's more likely to be Near x Mello, who have spent the whole game insisting Almost50 is town, and who Almost50 has shown no suspicion of.

Near x Mello's hop-on to the Vedith wagon was a textbook bus; they didn't have suspicion there prior to then.
Near x Mello and Robert did show suspicion of one another, but push come to shove, on D3 when SuperfluousNinja was an actual lynch candidate, they

defended

the slot.
I'd have to check on D2 to see their relationship to the ooba wagon.

Near x Mello's play this game has always been somewhat sketchy, more or less.

If this weren't a game won by POE, though, I admit I probably wouldn't be calling them scum.

The thing about it is, though.
You're conftown.
Torque is as town as town gets.
Chito and Yuuri are also town.
Joan is town.
I am town.
That's 5/9 slots right then and there.

Leaving {Almost50, Near x Mello, Elena, Reasonably Psychotic}.
I thought that SuperfluousNinja's push on Reasonably Psychotic made them town. I'm reconsidering that, but right now I still think more town than not. Reasonably Psychotic also has some strange interactions with Almost50 but it's hard to parse if those are scumbuddy interactions or anti-scumbuddy interactions; I'd need to research more to determine which.

The question to ask isn't who the scumteam is; it's who the town are.
And then, after identifying who the town are.
From the remaining candidates.
Identifying which teams work and which teams don't.
Almost50-Elena is unlikely, but not altogether impossible. (Which is one of the reasons I support the Elena lynch; it's not impossible for her to be scum. I don't think she is, but that was the same stance I held on Vedith, sooooo.)
Almost50-Near/Mello is incredibly plausible and maybe outright probable.
Almost50-Reasonably Psychotic is a team that I need to investigate more to determine (in)viability of.

ooba(5)

~ Dunnstral, Spike and Jet, Elena Fisher, Clemency, Gamma Emerald

ooba(4)

~ Dunnstral(4), Spike and Jet(37), Elena Fisher(12), Toogeloo(29)

Spike and Jet(5)

~ Severa(262), singletonking(45), Ankamius(150), Dunnstral(53), Gamma Emerald(88)

ooba(4)

~ Elena Fisher(12), Toogeloo(29), Spike and Jet(104), Near x Mello(260)

Creature

(9)

~ Severa(262), singletonking(45), Ankamius(149), Dunnstral(53), Gamma Emerald(51), Near x Mello(266), Pink Ball(34), Elena Fisher(30), Joan of Arc(100)

--

HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Reasonably Psychotic(25), Chito and Yuuri(37), Torque(30)

ooba(2)

~ Creature(104), Toogeloo(31)

Severa(1)

~ mastina(25)
Not Voting (2): Almost50(88), ooba(2)

So the answer to "how did Near x Mello treat the SuperfluousNinja slot D2" is...

"Much the same as they treated the slot on D3"--they did technically vote for the slot at one point...but did not stay on that wagon. And WHEN they voted on the wagon, the Spike/Jet wagon was larger; their vote didn't put ooba at risk of being lynched. They avoided voting ooba when ooba was the dominant wagon.

And in fact.
Were on the wagon opposite of ooba, Flavor Leaf.

So for a slot that accuses my interactions of allegedly being "distancing without bussing".
They sure as fuck seem to have interactions that fit as being "distancing without bussing".

Errr... let's try that without the broken tag?

Almost50, I explained why I put him into my poe pool in the neighborhood. Basically, it's a weak meta read. He was originally cleared of the poe pool--in fact, I thought his vote on SSBF spewed him as being town. But then, today, I realized something when driving home from work: literally every single time I've thought of Almost50 in a specific way, he has actually been scum that game, and I was thinking of him in that way this game.

Almost50's play this game essentially lacks "oomph". He's posting, sure, but there isn't a real strength behind his pushes; there isn't a real fire to be seen. Every time I've seen this, I've thought, "Oh I've seen Almost50 be a little apathetic as town, he looks town for these (superficial) reasons so this must be one of those off-games of his".

And yet, every time I can think of? When I had that thought, he was actually scum. The superficial reasons were superficial, skin-deep, not actually valid, and the lack of oomph wasn't from apathy, or at least not apathy born of problems beyond the keyboard; the lack of oomph was directly correlated to his alignment. And this game, Almost50 is lacking oomph, and the only reason I can really think of for having him as a townread, I'm thinking about and thinking...isn't it kinda superficial?

Ank, I could actually get REALLY good feedback from you, here.
My references for Almost50 as scum are these three games.

His towngames look more like this, this, this, and also this, plus some of this.

You've been in at least a couple of those, so you can compare them to here.

It's not like it's a definitive difference, not a night/day lock-solid foolproof metric.
But.

There IS that trend. Where as town there's just a kind of...oomph to it--one which you can still ignore but it's difficult and annoying. One which has presence enough to demand active effort to not pay attention to it.
Whereas here, I can effortlessly ignore him--I don't need to roll my eyes at him, I can just cruise by without really trying to. Something which tends to not happen when he is actually town, if that makes sense.

Robert/ooba, it's mostly that Robert's play was underwhelming. My reference for his towngame is his play here, and what he did here was just...so, so much less than what he did there. ooba's entrance into the game also felt like it was a scum entrance--all of these are weak reasons, but they do suggest a lurking/apathetic scum that got replaced.

This was the start of the Almost50 case--keep in mind that Ankamius, in private inside her neighborhood, apparently agreed with my conclusion here.

Is the shepherding being done behind the scenes?

It takes a scum player of VERY high caliber to pull that off--who in this list can do that besides myself, maybe-Almost50, Morality/Flavor Leaf, or Reasonably Psychotic. And in the case of Reasonably Psychotic, I already laid out why I don't feel this is Cerb's scum manipulation; there isn't so much as a single trace of it as far as I can see.

Almost50 actually fits as a scum shepherd, and I am going to cite what I did in my neighborhood on the subject:
Assume the scumteam has one individual who is the primary thinker/planner.
Assume it is not Near/Mello.
Assume it is not Reasonably Psychotic.

Aside from me, who fits the description best of being a scum thinker/planner? There's a few who are definitive nos; Joan, Vedith, Pink Ball, Dunnstral. Hypothetically they could be scum and could contribute, but would not be SPEARHEADING discussion of strategy.
There's a few who are capable of it when there's literally nobody else, but are all too happy to take a back seat. Gamma and Elena are who I'd profile as such.
There's a few who I don't know well enough to make a determination one way or another, but I'd guess at not being in the role; that's Chito/Yuuri, Torque, and Robert.

But the list of people who could be scum planners 100% of the time.
Is a small one.

It's {me, Near/Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50}. (Morality and Severa both counted, but are dead, so.)

If we assume that scum have a planner, then you need to get into each one of the scum planners' mindsets.

Here is where I diverge from my original analysis, because I want to point out:

Votecount 1.16

Vedith(10)

~ Chito and Yuuri(85), mastina(78), Joan of Arc(32), Drixx(22), Gamma Emerald(82), Torque(82), Spike and Jet(127), Near x Mello(97), Almost50(58)

, Vedith(75)

-- HAMMER

Gamma Emerald(3)

~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(163), Clemency(57)

Pink Ball(2)

~ Robert2424(17), Morality(29)

Joan of Arc(1)

~ Dunnstral(31)

Drixx(1)

~ singletonking(62)

mastina(1)

~ Toogeloo(29)
Not Voting (1): Reasonably Psychotic(55)

Almost50's planning strategy is similar to Morality's: screw the risk, get those counterwagons up. (And, mind you--I wrote this as a case for Morality being scum, so.)

Almost50, himself, was on the wagon, but...
Votecount 1.11

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(73), Chito and Yuuri(70), Torque(60),

Clemency(43), Spike and Jet(115)

Pink Ball(5) ~ Gamma Emerald(66), Joan of Arc(29),

Robert2424

(15),

Almost50

(44),

Vedith

(41)
mastina(2) ~

Toogeloo

(21), Pink Ball(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(20), Dunnstral(25)

singletonking(1) ~ Morality(18)

Reasonably Psychotic(1) ~ mastina(51)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(11)

Not Voting (2):

singletonking

(23), Reasonably Psychotic(36)

Votecount 1.15

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello(91), Chito and Yuuri(79),

Clemency

(52), mastina(73), Joan of Arc(32)
Pink Ball(3) ~

Robert2424

(17),

Gamma Emerald

(78),

Morality

(29)
mastina(3) ~

Toogeloo

(25), Almost50(53),

Spike and Jet

(124)
Gamma Emerald(2) ~ Elena Fisher(22), Pink Ball(157)

Drixx(2) ~ singletonking

(48), Torque(67)
Joan of Arc(1) ~ Dunnstral(29)

Clemency(1) ~ Drixx(19)

Not Voting (2):

Vedith

(49), Reasonably Psychotic(47)

As I originally said in my analysis--Almost50's approach as a scum spearhead is almost identical to that of Morality; fuck VCA over by having a scumbloc vote together, because the town won't be expecting it and it will throw them off.

In the former especially, there is that rather suspect pattern where Almost50 is surrounded on both sides of the wagon by scum. And that same wagon, Gamma Emerald would then later join not long after.

I'm seeing Gamma and pink ball wagons be essentially stagnant at where they are from even before vedith-slot became a decently sized wagon.

If the solve of Flavor Leaf-ooba-Toogeloo is correct, then the Pink Ball counterwagon to Vedith had

three

scum on it--not shown in any single votecount, but when you look at it, Robert was on that wagon; Morality was on that wagon; Vedith was on that wagon. The only person in the solve not on that wagon was Toogeloo.

That seems like it counts as trying-yet-failing, because failure was inevitable.

Plus what stops scum from pushing the pink ball or Gamma wagons?

What makes you think they didn't?

Both proven and suspected scum voted in those wagons.

The Vedith wagon had too much going for it to fall apart; the counterwagons were all self-evidently flawed and weak, off of superficial reasoning with the sole exception of the Pink Ball wagon--which DID rival Vedith's...until Pink Ball obvtowned himself.

Pink Ball was the closest to a viable counterwagon, which is shown to have contained scum, but he made that lynch not be viable with how he obvtowned himself. Vedith meanwhile became more and more an appealing lynch because he made misplay after misplay--none of those misplays looked intentional, so much as accidental, genuine, fuckups on his part that screwed him over.

Again, I wrote this about Morality...but it's actually more applicable for Almost50.

Almost50 was on most of the counterwagons to Vedith--Pink Ball and me most notably.

Almost50's Not Voting status I found incredibly suspect, in tandem with him having been in my POE pool.

I'm referring to Almost50's status at the end of D2. I'll be getting more into this in a bit, but keep it in mind.

Ankamius says that Almost is more likely to flip scum than not, and that his flip would be useful either way.

Ankamius has a strong track record for nailing Almost50 as scum.

I had him as a peripheral scumread; Severa had him as a scumread; Ankamius had him as a scumread; that's good enough for me.

And to give that reference--

a50 is

Town: {Ankamius, Gamma Emerald, singletonking, Chito and Yuuri, Joan of Arc, Severa, Torque, mastina}
Dunnstral
Spike and Jet
Toogeloo
Elena Fisher
Reasonably Psychotic
Almost50
ooba
Pink Ball
Near x Mello

first guess at actual scumteam is
{vedith, spike and jet, reasonably psychotic,

almost50

, toogeloo}

So reading Almost50's iso.

Hell yes he's scum, and has sketchy Gamma associatives as well. (Not going into the sketchy Robert associatives and sketchy Vedith interaction.)

A real highlight for me though is this,

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Given who died N1 and all.

I'll be going into these more, as well. Keep paying attention.

This post implies that certain hoods do not contain scums and certain ones do but how would you know that unless you had info on what hoods are available in the game? It’s doubtful that a Townie would be able to do anything but assume let alone speculate on an all scum hood.

What makes you think scum have info about all hoods available in the game
ie
How is bnl's thing more likely coming from scum than town?

I never said that scums had info on the hoods available in the game.

Looking back at BNL's post, it's suspicious that the post he made implies that not all hoods contain scum. It would be one thing if he brought up multiple possibilities like Drixx did when discussing possible house set-ups but he doesn't do that.

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other) but as far as alignments are concerned, there are no confirmations. Given this, it's a big leap to say that one or more of the hoods are all-town unless BNL had prior information knowing where the scums are, which only scum would know.

Kinda sorta feel like this from SSBF was a scumslip he tried to cover up RE: Almost50...who, as scum, has exactly that, access to every channel.

By that, I mean, he tried to project BNL/singleton's claim to an actual real scum role in the hands of another player (Almost50), essentially, and when called out on it by Near x Mello, tried to cover it up.

Take a look at him.
Take a damn good look at him.
Read my points on him.
Realize he ABSOLUTELY kills Drixx here N1; he ABSOLUTELY kills Ankamius (one of the best players in the game at reading him) N2; realize Drixx held suspicions MIRRORING YOUR OWN that Almost50's role was a scum role; realize Ankamius (again, one of the best players in the game at reading him) scumread him; realize that Severa (who, while an imperfect scumhunter, is still a

good

scumhunter) was scumreading him.

Chito: A50 did claim a post restriction and that the post restriction would not cause him to be prodded in the main thread. A post restriction does not make him town with certainty but I do believe the post restriction is likely real.

Repeat after me.

Role != alignment.

His role is real; there's never been any question to that.

The alignment's the important part; I'm pretty sure it's a scum role.

1469 is wrong in ways that are unlikely to come from scum, 73 is a level of early game solving that rarely comes from scum a50 and 1510 works against the way that a50 is more pockety as scum and less combative.

1469 is wrong in exactly the ways I've seen Almost50 be wrong as scum; 73 isn't really game solving; 1510 is responding to me literally the only way which he can; attempting to pocket me would only ensure his lynch and combating me is literally the only way he knows to fight me off.

Considering that AP is A50's "jokey" account, I would say A50's play in this game has a comparable amount of jokiness and random setup speccy stuff compared to Ballroom Blitz, which is a more recent game: viewtopic.php?t=78486&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

That's the problem.

AP

is his

joke

account.

Almost50

is his

serious

account.

The level of

jokiness

/setup spec stuff in this game is comparable to his

joke

account...
...But he is playing on his

serious

account.

You see the issue with that, yes?

Almost50 is scum on every account--by POE, by Ankamius scumreading him, by Severa scumreading him, by his interactions with flipped scum, sketchy posting throughout the game, by role speculation, and by the nightkills, among other factors.

Chito: I guess I can see where you're coming from a bit better after writing 3456, I can see how at a glance this looks a lot like scum A50. Some of the things I thought he didn't tend to do as scum he actually sometimes does, but I'm still having a hard time seeing him as scum here anyway.

Well then look at all the other factors.

There are four scum in the game--even if Gamma's one of them (which yes I agree with you I think she likely is), she has a partner; who is it?

You agree with the POE of Torque/Pink Ball/Dunnstral/Reasonably Psychotic/Joan as being town...
...Which leaves you a grand total of four names for two scum slots.
If Gamma's scum.
That's still one scum in Elena/NearxMello/Almost50.

POE is HARSH against him.

Even if you ignore the POE pool.

Drixx had setup reasons for suspecting Almost50; do you think that in a ROLE MADNESS game, Drixx was killed exclusively for counterclaiming the scum role? (When there are, in fact, multiple town players--myself included--who have a role acting as a CC to Vedith's, and there are many town roles which CC one another.) We know at this point he wasn't killed to silence his voice in his neighborhood; that theory went debunk when Severa flipped town. Drixx had his eyes on Almost50, for good reason.

Ankamius is one of the best players on mafiascum--dead serious. Well, as town, at least. She's literally one of the worst threats to go up against--while that does mean literally everyone would kill her, it also means she has reason to be respected on her reads...ESPECIALLY her Almost50 read. She is one of the best players at reading Almost50. I rate her ability to read him as better than mine, and according to Joan, she had a rather notable scumread on him.

Severa may have been wrong on Spike/Jet, but RC is also a strong town player; he has a damn good process. He had Almost50 as one of his suspects. While he was vigged, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a scum vig right now, which brings up the question of who as scum would want him dead like that; the answer is, those who were afraid he'd catch them. And Almost50 is in that pool.

There's so much for him being scum, and the most there is for him being town is "he can do this stuff as town; he doesn't have to do this stuff as scum", pretty much. He just makes the most sense as one of the remaining two.

Ank may be good but she was in the thread for like 5 days and was not privy to today's flips, including Toogeloo who might have adjusted her PoE.

Her scumread on Almost50 existed separately from her scumreads elsewhere.

Thus, the flips may have adjusted her other reads, but wouldn't have adjusted her Almost50 read.

Also, no town player is going to have perfect reads, but that doesn't mean you ignore their reads because of the ones which were wrong.

Severa also literally said he just did not read Elena, so it's not like Severa was arguing A50 was scummier than Elena (at least not in this thread, lmk if he posted some night time reads list before he died).

Him ignoring Elena doesn't mean he ignored Almost50; him ignoring Elena doesn't affect how he scumread Almost50.

How does night kill analysis point to Almost being scum in your opinion?

Because Drixx died; Ankamius died. Both had other reasons to die and Almost50 isn't going to kill someone JUST because they scumread him...but they both scumread him.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes.

Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. Him being a mechanics-based player? He was a fucking non-threat.

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat. Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote. It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 is scum.

Here are the points of interest regarding A50, which he wants you to forget about:

I'll bite, why am I scum A50?

I don't like your voting patterns. Let me give you an example: You think BOTH FL & ooba are scum?

I want to know why you thought I was scumreading FL

I dunno. Probably mistook a post from someone else as being made by you. I went back to ISO you and I don't see why I had that down as a remark next to your name.

I pointed out that I had mentioned something about Morality in my pt, and he ate it up. He then goes on to ask me who scum is in my hood (nonsense, the burden is on him, and the pressure should be on him)
Notably, if scum don't have daytalk then just being scum wouldn't be enough to gather this information, so that point by him is moot anyway. I theorize that he can't see into my neighborhood during the day, but may or may not be able to get info on it during the night, and if he can't then he was just making stuff up

It's time to resolve this. What information does my first post on day 3 inside my neighborhood convey?

Naw, it makes sense. Note this is WITHOUT me bothering to reread anything, or ISO A50.

The strongest argument in favor of him being town was the warning he gave everyone(to share what I was thinking there, he only does that as scum in two situations: If his teammates include Drixx, myself, Wisdom, Alisae, or mastina(just don't see that coming from anyone else in this game who's scum game I'm familiar with), or if a/his scum role includes an ability to spy on/be part of all the PT's). I found it unlikely that his team included the people I thought capable of guiding him towards taking that line, but as the game has gone on I've grown more certain that the scum team has that ability to spy on pt's, so he's really left with nothing in terms of reasons to townread him.

Honestly, pure speculation of course, but I think it's super likely that his absence from the thread right now is part of an ability that let's him look at all the other PT's during this time when he's gone from the main thread.

That's a lot of statements to make.

But let's back them up.

Looking at the players list I don't seem to recall anything Super Smash Bros. Fan or Maria have posted. Checking the activity it's no wonder as each has only posted once (and Maria even did it under an alt).

Could the two of you please step into the center of the stage and perform a first dance?

This is his first interaction with the Vedith slot.

@Gamma: How am I supposed to answer this now? You know my alts, right? Would you be kind enough to figure out the rest?

Nothing to do with alts, everything to do with you hemorrhaging scum-exclusive info previously.

I understand your paranoia, but it's overly naive of you to do so here for several reasons:
1- That was a slip about an in-game mechanic there. Here it was confusion about what game it is and who the mod is.
2- Do you really think I would be so careless as to slip AGAIN here? Like, there it was bc I was a replacement and I jumped the gun. Here I am a starter and have had plenty of time to read, reread and prepare well if I wanted to have anything "planned".
3- When that happened I tried my best to get out of the hole I had dug myself into without explaining much. Here I gave you as much info as I could. Try AP. Period.
Happy?

This is an incredibly awkward interaction with Gamma Emerald.

My inactivity in this thread until now was due to life being busy, not deliberately avoiding the thread.

(Vote: this dude)
This phrasing is most irritating to me. "my inactivity

in this thread

" hints he has been posting "elsewhere", and if that's the case then "busy life" certainly is not the reason.
Please reread his phrasing and compare it to "My inactivity

in this thread

until now" which probably wouldn't have rubbed me the wrong way.
@Super Smash: Please tell us how many posts you has on any channels you're in, and that's for starters.
Oh, and for the VC tool to recognize the vote:
VOTE: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Even for Almost50, this is an "out-there" reasoning for a vote, which reeks of being a bus vote based on TMI.

@Vedith: Why PB?

Continued awkward interactions with the Vedith slot. Up to and including:

@Vedith: Why PB?

Because I'm top voted and I got worried and panicked. You should vote with me.

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

Unvoting the slot, and not pressing elsewhere.

Almost50 drops an unvote, and critically--he avoids voting again. He doesn't latch onto something else; he just drops his push, dead, because he "liked his honesty".

I love your honesty. here's a reward:
UNVOTE:

That was a little easy. What if I was lying?

If you had said anything else I would have suspected you were lying. This is the one and only reason I thought might make sense for that vote.

The awkward interaction continues.

Vedith

(5) ~ Near x Mello, Chito and Yuuri, Torque, Clemency, Spike and Jet, <<< all town wagon.. on a

townie

[

X

]

Almost50(1) ~

Vedith

, <<<

town

on town

[

X

]

Not Voting (3): Reasonably Psychotic, Almost50, singletonking, <<< 3 lazy townies (yes, I know I'm one of the 3)

Key notes here.

My theory is Vedith is an easy push, so scum are counting on town to do the job for them.

Hey, Wisdom.
Why the fuck did you call me out on this sort of shit, but not Almost50?

cmon, thats weak. "easy" wagons happen on scum all the time. I agree with your gamma and pink reads.

Separately, it does seem to be weak indeed. However, there are some other (even weaker) indications that -collectively- add up to a "not-so-strong yet not-too-weak" reasoning.
For example, my PoE and my SRs support that conclusion. Of course I cannot be confident without having any flips at all, but IF I am correct about X, Y & Z being the scum team then that's that.
As for Vedith himself, I don't think Scum!him (who had just voted someone and declared it was a survivalistic vote on his counter wagon), would respond to me unvoting him by FoS'ing me. (After all, he knows I'm bad.. I'm bad, he knows it.. ) and he thus was risking me not only revoting him but actually pushing him for real.

@Dunn: I'm not saying he flips red.

In fact I still lean towards a green flip.

HOWEVER, this will never go away. It's better to deal with it NOW than to let scum use it as a smoke screen to keep us chasing our tails all game.

Because Almost50 was doing the very fucking thing

you

were accusing me of doing.

Stalling the Vedith lynch.

@A50: If Vedith is a villager and is an easy push as you say, scum has all the incentive to hop on his wagon yet the wagon came to a halt
Either there is scum already voting there or Vedith is a wolf

No. If they thought town would do the job for them they would stay clear off the wagon and play for time. Maybe they thought it "could" go through without them and now are considering throwing their weight behind it towards the end of the day, but for now are hoping that the town still does the job for them.

Also let's not forget the other 2 wagons are on stronger TRs, and scum wouldn't e stupid enough to try and save one of them by pushing someone unlikely to get lynched on D1. The wagons are thus composed so that any townie looking to consolidate at crunch time would look at the 3 and think Vedith is the right way to go given there are no other options by then.

More Vedith defense.

I support Toog's notion. Let's force scum to hop on counter wagons sooner than later so it will become apparent who's aligned with whom
VOTE: mastina

I was a Vedith counterwagon.

@Drixx: I know why you may not think I'm playing to my town meta, but I can't explain it right now. Maybe on D3 or D4 if we're both still alive.

Almost50 acknowledged that Drixx posed a threat here--Drixx's point on Almost50 was this:

A50 is either having a laugh as an informed/scum role or has somehow managed to be over the top nonchalant as town since the last time I played with him as town.

And this is the crucial bit. Drixx and Cerb both saw the same thing.
Drixx.
And Cerb.
The mechanics-based players.
Both saw the same thing.
When looking at Almost50.
They saw.
A mechanical reason to scumread Almost50.

Drixx. The CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
AGREEING WITH CERBERUS, THE OTHER CO-KING OF MECHANICAL SCUMHUNTING.
HAD A

MECHANICAL

REASON.
To scumread Almost50.

Almost50 brushed it off.

VOTE: Vedith
All caught up. Not even sure how I feel about this, but letting him off the hook will always come back to haunt us later on regardless of his true alignment.

L-1

This is also a blatant scum bus.

I'd also like to note from D1:

This leaves me with S&J, SSB, Gamma, Joan, Toog (I suspect he may have a 1-shot global protective ability?? ), Drixx, Maria (my nemesis), mastina, Robert & NxM to sort

preliminarily

.

He sorted Spike and Jet.
He sorted Vedith.
He sorted Toogeloo.
He sorted Drixx.
He sorted me.
He sorted Near x Mello.
He sorted Toogeloo.

But Gamma/Joan/Elena/Robert have ambiguous sorts, at best. The closest to a Robert sort?

I feel

left

out.

Actually, you can't be more

right

.

That's literally the extent of his Robert interactions.

Gamma's no better in that regard.

@Gamma: So you've arguing against mastina being worthy of a sheep, and you say Joan of Arc's response isn't a town response, yet you joined the same wagon they're both pushing?? What gives?

Another awkward Gamma interaction.

@Mortality: You're clever, you're funny and -in this game- you're TOWN.

Starts with this...

@Near: Not yet. I am waiting for a few people to come say something useful today before I vote. But, it's likely that I will vote her "eventually" if that's what you're asking.

Refuses to vote...

OH! A MASTINA TRAIN! I LOVE IT!!
VOTE: mastina

...Votes me...

Near/Elena/Torque scum team

Well, I'm on Elena and I thought you were too. Let's lynch this first then we see who else. I don't think both Near & Torque bused Vedith, so I believe at least one of then is Town here.

...Is even sheeping Flavor Leaf...

No. I know his play and I kinda know when he's being manipulative-as-scum vs manipulative-as-town. FL is dropping his guard here, which is something he never does as scum. He is making himself overly vulnerable, and he

could indeed

get lynched TODAY, yet he's not backing off. It's because he

believes

he's right about you being scum (which is one major reason I'm calling his reads shit).

...And defending him...

We have no idea if all the hoods in the game has a scum or not. Some of us are in one hood, some are in multiples like Morality (who elected to post in one channel and not in the other)

This is interesting
Did Morality end up posting in any other channel?

*Sigh*
I can't argue with THAT.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

...But when a Flavor Leaf lynch seemed viable, he jumped on, not questioning the nature of the "slip", not finding the obvious flaws in it. (Heck I scumread Flavor Leaf but I knew the slip was bs.) Flavor Leaf, the dude he was sheeping. The dude being voted by me, someone he was quite happy to lynch. He voted without hesitation, without critical thought.

UNVOTE:

He does unvote after

someone else

points this out...

...But why didn't HE, the kind of person who specializes in finding that sort of thing, notice this?

What's more.

He left himself Not Voting there--where he stayed throughout the day.
Why no vote here?
Or here?
Or here?
Here?
When Spike/Jet was being wagoned, why didn't he fight it?
Why didn't he insist that Spike/Jet was town?
Why, when on D1 to counter the Vedith wagon he voted...
...Did he not vote?

On D1, when there was a player he townread (Vedith), Almost50 tried to counterwagon them, and admitted as much.
On D2, a player he townread, Almost50...did nothing for.
The difference between the two is Vedith was scum and Spike/Jet wasn't.
He contributed nothing to the Creature discussion.
He posted, but it was just that--posts. Nothing constructive in them, one way or another. No accusations against Creature, no defense of Creature. Silence.

Then there's the scum's interactions with him.

Okay right now I'm at this.
VOTE: Almost50
Challenge me.

This is blatant scum theater--this is not a real push. This is not an attempt to generate a counterwagon. This is an attempt to make distance.

A50 is town guys.

Why?

More of the same.

The unvote was most likely a hop off the sinking ship. It's not unusual for me to be the main attraction to the death tunnel day 1, so why stay on?
The reason of me panicking, I can't see this being bought by anyone who has played with me previously, yet it was apparently a really good answer to stop voting.

Originally Almost looked to be pushing the game, and when it looks to have little to no pressure on them, it's a bunch of worthless and empty typing.
That said, the game state is in a bad shape, so it's plausible that this is void, but I'm still going with tut tut.

That's all I have as I don't want to vote Gamma yet.

Aside from this being an awkward Gamma interaction as well, this is an awkward push on Almost50.

But this is my point to the game, since I joined in (I take no blame though) majority players are doing fuck all. So the fact that Almost had better looking posts until as of recent means I shouldn't use that as a reason to thing of him as scum... However much I want to.
It's also sad that my biggest current scum read goes ahead because of an unvote on me. But that's how it is.

Here he's already giving reasons for backing out of the scumread on Almost50.

VOTE: Pink Ball

In fact, he drops it altogether.

Why didn't he keep pushing Almost50?

Idk, I havn't seen much of a change with Pink ball or Near. I'd actually put Mastina as an actual town read, she's been completely different then the game I played with her when she was scum. Maybe its so many people causing issues for me, But I have half the reads I'd like.

Vedith is odd

, but don't have strong feelings either ways. However, a flip would help with reads there...

A50 seems crazy still

. Toogeloo post seem odd to me as well.

Pay attention to these reads from Robert as well.

I can do more, but that'd go into Gamma-Almost50 when neither has flipped...yet.

Here. Why Near x Mello's most likely to be scum; why Almost50 is scum.

[Elena Fisher]

However, now that we know Dunnstral picked me as a target last night and not a bodyguard whoever killed him was immune to being able to die. That we know now is a fact. I would like to vote A50 still and I think that's where I'm headed

[Near x Mello]

still not getting it

[Elena Fisher]

Also, I'll ask anyone not to mess you up. Y

ou immediately kill anyone who successfully kills you (That said, if you don't die, you don't kill).

- But you ARE actually a handsome boy. Your appearance, except those tattoos, are really girls' favorite, once you become less shy, though.

{(UNLOCKED NIGHT 2) Each night, you may target any player and redirect any actions targeted at them to you. The target will also know that you are targeting them, but not what you did. This power only works at female targets though. I mean, yeah. Also, you may only target a player once with this ability.}

Check the bolded and the Red.

I claimed that Dunnstral used this power on me last night (Night 3) His night 3 power was making someone bodyguard him. I asked if I was the target of the night kill and he redirected that to himself would the mafia who tried to target me die. The answer was yes. So by that logic, someone avoided dying by being immune.
If we can try to figure out who did an action on n3 that removes them from the pool.

[Elena Fisher]

The only real flaw I see in this is if someone has a passive that makes them immune from death but looking at the power of others I feel that'd be a night 3 thing not a start of game thing.

[Near x Mello]

can't they be immune and use an action?

[mastina]

Like.

I've (bleeped because bleep the mod) explained.

From the (bleeped because bleep the mod) onset.

"This is a game won by POE".

How the (bleeped because bleep the mod) is that any less clear than can be?

Pink Ball was obvtown from his reaction to being wagoned D1 plus Vedith's treatment of him; he became conftown with Elena targeting him.
Reasonably Psychotic was obvtown from SuperfluousNinja's treatment of them; they became conftown via Cerb targeting Chito and Yuuri.
Torque is literally as town as town gets this game, abundantly clear every single (bleeped because bleep the mod) step of the way that he is town.
Joan is absolutely 100% town because this is absolutely her play as town.
I am town.

That's 5/9.
Chito and Yuuri is obvtown from their Vedith hard push not to mention reasonable stances held throughout the game and their overall game approach.
That's 6/9.

That leaves you three names for two scum.
Elena Fisher.
Near x Mello.
And Almost50.

Three candidates, two scum.

Elena Fisher I outlined reasons why I felt it wasn't her, which I admit I didn't quote.
Near x Mello I outlined reasons why they fit as scum; they haven't done any actual pushing on scum in spite of accusing ME of that (bleeped because bleep the mod) same thing. They defended SuperfluousNinja when push came to shove AND avoided the ooba wagon when it was picking up steam...twice, only on it for a brief time.
Almost50 I outlined the reasons why he's scum endlessly.

Game of (bleeped because bleep the mod) POE.
Plus reasons to scumread Almost50 and Near x Mello.

I already (bleeped because bleep the mod) did that.

So what the (bleeped because bleep the mod) more do you (bleeped because bleep the mod) want from me than what I've (bleeped because bleep the mod) given.

I've proven as much as I can.
Why everyone in the townbloc is town.
I've proven as much as I can.
Why I am scumreading who I am.

There's literally nothing (bleeped because bleep the mod) left for me to do except (bleeped because bleep the mod) shut down the bull(bleeped because bleep the mod) wagon on me.

[Near x Mello]

even if its a n3 thing it can be an automatic passive and they can still use, say, a n2 active

[Elena Fisher]

can't they be immune and use an action?

Ah fudge, I suppose you're correct.

[mastina]

Also, I'll ask anyone not to mess you up. Y

ou immediately kill anyone who successfully kills you (That said, if you don't die, you don't kill).

- But you ARE actually a handsome boy. Your appearance, except those tattoos, are really girls' favorite, once you become less shy, though.

{(UNLOCKED NIGHT 2) Each night, you may target any player and redirect any actions targeted at them to you. The target will also know that you are targeting them, but not what you did. This power only works at female targets though. I mean, yeah. Also, you may only target a player once with this ability.}

Check the bolded and the Red.

I claimed that Dunnstral used this power on me last night (Night 3) His night 3 power was making someone bodyguard him. I asked if I was the target of the night kill and he redirected that to himself would the mafia who tried to target me die. The answer was yes. So by that logic, someone avoided dying by being immune.
If we can try to figure out who did an action on n3 that removes them from the pool.

So WHY.
THE.
(bleeped because bleep the mod).

ARE YOU (bleeped because bleep the mod) VOTING ME.

WHEN

TORQUE CONFIRMED THAT I VISITED HIM

.

BY YOUR OWN (bleeped because bleep the mod) LOGIC.
I SHOULD BE (bleeped because bleep the mod) PROVEN TO NOT BE THE (bleeped because bleep the mod) KILLER.

[Near x Mello]

so elena can you concentrate on dayplay now

did you read why almost is town

do you see mastina/chito

[Elena Fisher]

Also, I'll ask anyone not to mess you up. Y

ou immediately kill anyone who successfully kills you (That said, if you don't die, you don't kill).

- But you ARE actually a handsome boy. Your appearance, except those tattoos, are really girls' favorite, once you become less shy, though.

{(UNLOCKED NIGHT 2) Each night, you may target any player and redirect any actions targeted at them to you. The target will also know that you are targeting them, but not what you did. This power only works at female targets though. I mean, yeah. Also, you may only target a player once with this ability.}

Check the bolded and the Red.

I claimed that Dunnstral used this power on me last night (Night 3) His night 3 power was making someone bodyguard him. I asked if I was the target of the night kill and he redirected that to himself would the mafia who tried to target me die. The answer was yes. So by that logic, someone avoided dying by being immune.
If we can try to figure out who did an action on n3 that removes them from the pool.

So WHY.
THE.
(bleeped because bleep the mod).

ARE YOU (bleeped because bleep the mod) VOTING ME.

WHEN

TORQUE CONFIRMED THAT I VISITED HIM

.

BY YOUR OWN (bleeped because bleep the mod) LOGIC.
I SHOULD BE (bleeped because bleep the mod) PROVEN TO NOT BE THE (bleeped because bleep the mod) KILLER.

I'm voting you for a lot of the same reasons I voted Creature combined with the logic I outlined before.
Pedit: I will read the a50 thing right now

[mastina]

even if its a n3 thing it can be an automatic passive and they can still use, say, a n2 active

My N2 action isn't proven but is very (bleeped because bleep the mod) easily self-evidently a real (bleeped because bleep the mod) thing.
My N3 action IS (bleeped because bleep the mod) proven.

It doesn't even (bleeped because bleep the mod) matter if the passive Torque got was mine or Near x Mello's.

THE FACT TORQUE SAW ME VISIT HIM PROVES THAT I USED A NON-ROLEBLOCKING ACTION ON HIM.

Because I was proven to use my N3 power.

And because my N2 power is self-evidently NOT (bleeped because bleep the mod) kill-immunity. (Like. Try to (bleeped because bleep the mod) think of a way to make that (bleeped because bleep the mod) flavor work. It doesn't.)

It is (bleeped because bleep the mod) self-evident.
I didn't do the (bleeped because bleep the mod) kill.

Which means BY YOUR OWN (bleeped because bleep the mod) METRIC.

YOU SHOULD BE (bleeped because bleep the mod) HUNTING A DIFFERENT PLAYER.

Maybe.

Like.
Oh.
Sayyyyyyyyyyy.

Kirito?
WHOSE (bleeped because bleep the mod) THING IS BEING ABLE TO BLOCK ATTACKS LIKE DUNNSTRAL'S.

Almost50 should be a (bleeped because bleep the mod) flavor GUILTY.

[mastina]

I'm voting you for a lot of the same reasons I voted Creature combined with the logic I outlined before.

That it'll shed some (bleeped because bleep the mod) light on things?

OH THEN DO (bleeped because bleep the mod) TELL ME.

WHAT THE (bleeped because bleep the mod) ARE THOSE (bleeped because bleep the mod) THINGS.

TELL ME (bleeped because bleep the mod)

EXACTLY

WHAT YOU GET FROM THE FLIP.

Because you get jack(bleeped because bleep the mod).

[Elena Fisher]

I agree that the post you linked was the main reason I was townreading A50 in the first place. He could've done a lot of stuff as scum, but that post seemed really towny to me.
I haven't seen much else to really warrant a townread on him and I must admit he seems like the most likely killer in my book, but I'll relent.
Pedit: mastina can you do me a favor and take a step back from the computer for 10-20 minutes then come back? I'll happily explain to you after that.

[Near x Mello]

the things torque mentioned are also great points for town almost

[Near x Mello]

as for the killer, its chito

mastina is confirmed to have visited torque, so the kill was done by the buddy

[mastina]

even if its a n3 thing it can be an automatic passive and they can still use, say, a n2 active

My N2 action isn't proven but is very (bleeped because bleep the mod) easily self-evidently a real (bleeped because bleep the mod) thing.
My N3 action IS (bleeped because bleep the mod) proven.

It doesn't even (bleeped because bleep the mod) matter if the passive Torque got was mine or Near x Mello's.

THE FACT TORQUE SAW ME VISIT HIM PROVES THAT I USED A NON-ROLEBLOCKING ACTION ON HIM.

Because I was proven to use my N3 power.

And because my N2 power is self-evidently NOT (bleeped because bleep the mod) kill-immunity. (Like. Try to (bleeped because bleep the mod) think of a way to make that (bleeped because bleep the mod) flavor work. It doesn't.)

It is (bleeped because bleep the mod) self-evident.
I didn't do the (bleeped because bleep the mod) kill.

Which means BY YOUR OWN (bleeped because bleep the mod) METRIC.

YOU SHOULD BE (bleeped because bleep the mod) HUNTING A DIFFERENT PLAYER.

Maybe.

Like.
Oh.
Sayyyyyyyyyyy.

Kirito?
WHOSE (bleeped because bleep the mod) THING IS BEING ABLE TO BLOCK ATTACKS LIKE DUNNSTRAL'S.

Almost50 should be a (bleeped because bleep the mod) flavor GUILTY.

This deserves elaboration in its own (bleeped because bleep the mod) post.

Kirito is the best (bleeped because bleep the mod) swordsman in Sword Art Online.
His shtick is how elite he is. He's the best, pretty much. He's not only experienced, but also just that damn good.
What sorts of powers do you expect an ultimate swordsman to have?
You expect him to have powers that would deal with combat. Deal with avoiding damage, while inflicting it.

Tell me I'm (bleeped because bleep the mod) wrong on this, Cerb.
Tell me you don't (bleeped because bleep the mod) see where I'm coming from on this point.

[mastina]

Pedit: mastina can you do me a favor and take a step back from the computer for 10-20 minutes then come back? I'll happily explain to you after that.

(bleeped because bleep the mod) that.

I. am. being. (bleeped because bleep the mod). lynched.

YOU ARE PART OF THE (bleeped because bleep the mod) LYNCH.

You want me to (bleeped because bleep the mod) calm down?

THEN (bleeped because bleep the mod) UNVOTE ME.