Mini 2063 - Rapier Upick Shuffle [Game Over]

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: Fractured
Continuing the chainsaw.

~Jimothy

[Michael Scott]

"Chain" you just formed a loop!

[Michael Scott]

VC 1.0

Not Voting (15): RadiantCowbells, GuiltyLion, Michael Scott, Alonzo, Brigitte, Varsoon, Fractured, mbaki, JohnnyEnglish, [Keen], [Keen], implosion, Lovebird, Parmigiano Reggiano, Reality Check

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-27 04:00:00)

Notes: Game Start

"Keen" implies we have people with extra votes?

[Michael Scott]

NOOOOOO.......NOOOOOOO.........HELP ME........BRIGITTE!!!!! GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: TOBY SCUMBAG FLENDERSON

- Date Mike

[Michael Scott]

Ohh I have some game info I can unload btw.

I have been informed that Reality Check is town.

Yeah well I'm going to one-up you here and inform you that Toby Flenderson is SCUMMMMMMMMMMMM!!! Join the bandwagon on him!!!

- Date Mike

[Michael Scott]

Who is Toby Flenderson?
Are you memeing?

You DON'T want to know who he is, but vote for him please!!!

- Date Mike

[Michael Scott]

No ty.
I can't break the chain.

Please Brigitte. If you vote for Toby I promise to make you assistant to the assistant to the regional manager.

- Date Mike

[Michael Scott]

You broke it, Brigitte.
It was Implosion <- Brigitte <- Fractured <- Michael Scott.
You made it a loop! Unless you go back and vote Implosion again. And Lovebird votes us, so the chain can continue.

[Michael Scott]

But not a fun one.

[Michael Scott]

Nope, as far as I recall. Perhaps you spectated Starcract Mafia 2 which we played in, though.

[Michael Scott]

None per se but I get townfeelz from Brigitte.
I'll trust Brigitte that Reality Check is town for now.
Also I'm not signing as well :3

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Michael Scott]

not really interested in the Brigitte/Reality Check/Radiant discussion except to affirm that I buy both of Brigitte's/Reality Check's claims regarding eachother and have them both as town

I don't like! Why let them off the hook like this? If they're scum, they've bought themselves a very easy townread. But more than that, if they're scum and you're town, what could convince you to vacate that townread? Their play later on? This statement of yours bothers me

Why do you think this comes from scum, apart from your recall? Tone?

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: Michael Scott

I won't push your lynch because , but I believe you're more likely scum than town.

Because?

[Michael Scott]

I'll obvtown in time.

[Michael Scott]

I'll read the thread and catch up later in the day, if I'm able to.

[Michael Scott]

This is Dwight schrute and I am the assistant regional manager

You better townread me then.

[Michael Scott]

Scummy

Explain.

[Michael Scott]

Ummm nothing. I am just not finding a lot of content here parsing that is helping me get reads

Me too.

[Michael Scott]

My activity pattern on a whole isn't so good for reasons. I'm fully aware I've only posted 'meh' content so far, haven't read the thread.
Take it as temp VLA for a day.

[Michael Scott]

Actually, shift in priorities. Gimme an hour.

Volxen's MIA too >.>

[Michael Scott]

ISO skim leaves me with a strong townread on Fractured.

1. RVS mindmeld on townreads - I'd imagine scum would pick apart and attack one of the RVS posters, I was expecting to be called awkward for it.
2. 528 and 631 - Clear, transparent stances on things early in the game without any real need to. +town indicative.

[Michael Scott]

there's no answer to 375 that advances the game

VOTE: Fractured

aayyy we're getting somewhere

Unvote

VOTE: Fractured

Explain the thought progression(s) behind these votes.

[Michael Scott]

can I sell you onto Fractured instead

I see a lot of shade towards Fractured but no real case? (Forgive me, still just looking at ISOs)
Sell it to me, Hobbes.
Also, how come you have virtually no comment on my slot?

[Michael Scott]

wtf the quotes keep disappearing, I've tried 3 times and only one shows up when I go to preview.

Anything you want to talk about? I'm here a while.

[Michael Scott]

I don't know what to tell you. I am not gonna try to convince you I am town.

You realize I feel as though I am walking on eggshells with you right now and I don't know how to respond, right?

Townreading this. RC, I remember you said Brigitte is scum, do you still hold that? What's your case?

[Michael Scott]

A lot of people are voteparking or jumping around without any resolution to their reads.... assuming they have them.

Yeah, on my occasional visit to the thread I noticed this. Like nearly 30 pages and no real wagons being pushed.
Hence the questions to people to back up with their thought processes, and give me something to evaluate.

[Michael Scott]

So you have a dozen posts and that's our fault somehow?

Contentless (in a sense) posting is your collective fault, yea.

[Michael Scott]

Volxen's MIA too >.>

@Brigitte.

Do you have prior experience with me?

[Michael Scott]

So you're using meta for them? I find the suspicion on them to be thoroughly unconvincing.

Nope, just want to get inside the head of the person who is posting.

If it's a wall with large text in places, it's 99% Volxen.
If it's not a wall it's 100% Auro.

[Michael Scott]

You have several people pushing votes on you but you haven't engaged, why?

I think the lack of concern over being shaded/wagoned is town indicative to an extent, what do you think?

[Michael Scott]

Brigitte, are you still townreading Mbaki?

[Michael Scott]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Michael Scott

I won't push your lynch because , but I believe you're more likely scum than town.

VOTE: Fractured

UNVOTE:

there's no answer to 375 that advances the game

VOTE: Fractured

I don't know how to read Lovebird, my honest answer is I didn't like their content but deferring to RC is better here
Michael Scott meh, scummish via the fact most of the people posting are generally townie

VOTE: Fractured

UNVOTE:

VOTE: FRACTURED

Waffliness and poor pushes (quoted above) seems weird. I'm not sure if this is necessarily AI for the slot, but no, I'm not townreading them.
You said your reason for townreading the slot was that their posting seemed natural, yeah? This may have been answered before but - do you have prior experience with mbaki, and have you accurately identified their alignment using this in previous games?

[Michael Scott]

The activity scumcase is unconvincing, you gotta come up with something more.

[Michael Scott]

I'm a little bit concerned with Implosion's lack of engagement with me while continuously calling me scum.

Johnny, talk to me more about Varsoon being scum?

[Michael Scott]

I mean the "why" of it.

[Michael Scott]

Ebwop: Okey dokie.

[Michael Scott]

Sell me on Alonzo and I'll sheep you, English.

[Michael Scott]

Take a brief look at Alonzo's ISO, and name me instances of him actively trying to look for evidence as to which among us are scum, or, in other words, "scumhunting". Can you? This exercise will take less than two minutes.

Definitions for "scumhunting" vary.
His ISO is meh, but this accusation can be made of multiple slots, methinks.
Also from my very iffy memory of town!Alonzo, this doesn't look too different. Are you informed by experience with town!him?

[Michael Scott]

Care to put a vote down on him for the time being?

I see you haven't placed a vote yourself - you go on, first.

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: Alonzo

Let's see where this goes.
I'm liking Johnny English.

[Michael Scott]

this is a tremendously bad post, for the record

1 - everybody knows faking townreads as scum is easy. It also feels like unnatural/forced reasoning - "they're not playing how in this specific manner I would expect scum to play, therefore they're town"
2 - there was definite need to, because several people were scumreading them and voting them. like you're giving them town credit for doing something that either alignment would want to do to look town.

I have to think a townie - especially players of Auro/volxen caliber - would see that a scum!Fractured could fake this level of content so far and would have more paranoia than a "strong townread" after an ISO skim. this feels like a fabricated townread because they already decided previously that they didn't want to scumread Fractured slot

"They *could* do this as scum, hence you can't townread them for it!"

You ignore that:
1. It's an early AF townread which is obviously subject to re-evaluation.
2. Picking stances in this way is how I begin the game usually.
3. They townread virtually everyone in that RVS interaction IIRC and not just me, saying I townread them just for townreading me is disingenuous.

[Michael Scott]

this is also a bad reply - I'm progressively more confident on scum!Michael Scott at this point

Quote is a strawman of the argument I'm making. I'm not really saying people can't townread Fractured, rather the point is that your reasons for a "strong" townread on Fractured were notably weak in a way that doesn't really make sense from a townie.

1 - until/unless you actually re-evaluate, this means nothing. and it's not a counter to my point that the townread is bad to begin with
2 - cool, same. your justification for that stance remains extremely sketchy
3 - I didn't say anything about who they townread, had nothing to do with you. More just that saying "we RVS mindmelded on townreads" isn't at all a compelling reason to townread someone unless there's more to why you think those particular townreads are town-indicative.

Heavily disagree that the townread was bad. Mindmelding on RVS reads is a fine reason to throw an early townread, especially when the verdict is "all town". The RVS mindmeld wasn't the sole reason for a townread - I had additional reasons to strengthen my townread, which you dismissed as "could be within their scumrange" - which led to my quote.

Now, answer this - What is your experience with Volxen?

[Michael Scott]

It's not about Auro/Volxen's meta with you specifically, it's more about what I know of both players. Auro is incredibly insightful and capable as town, and Volxen I've seen go deep into trying to clear one of his pet townreads at the expense of paranoia of two otherwise rather obvtown slots (Auro/CoA) because he was so careful about accidentally town-clearing a potential deepwolf, here. I just can't comfortably grok that they would so casually shelve you as strong-town off what you'd contributed so far. It's an alarmingly bad justification for a townread.

I don't really care about the content of those posts, I care that they suggested you "had no need" to post them. Do you really agree that scum!you wouldn't feel bothered to give some better town-looking reads at that point?

Nevermind, I see this^.

What games of mine have you even read? You should know, by now, that I usually bucket people into townreads very early and strongly so, as my way of moving a game on, for admittedly weak reasons.

"Had no need" -> Your argument keeps coming around to "scum can do anything", and this can apply to any reason to townread anyone. Objectively, in that gamestate where nothing was really happening, yes - there is higher town motivation to advance the game and post solid reads instead of mucking around, and is a fine reason (again) to townread them.

[Michael Scott]

If everyone scumleans them, it feels like a ML. But if only 2 scumread them and nobody else mentions them, it feels like scum. Not much more to it than that atm.

You're not following the game, then. A couple of slots have me as a townread. I'm not having much of a presence in the game right now - that's the obvious explanation for "not being mentioned much", how do you follow the implication that I'm scum from all of this?

[Michael Scott]

I just feel like Michael Scott has had really terrible reactions to pressure

Waiting to hear your justification. I've been busy, and my reactions to pressure were:

448: Questioning an unexplained scumread, which I don't recall was answered.
687: I say I'll prioritize this game for a bit.
721: Where you call me scum for "activity patterns", which I call out, and successively state concern for you not engaging with me.
861: Where I defend against an accusation that my townread was bad.

Explain the "really terrible" reactions to pressure. Shoot.

[Michael Scott]

Is the hot new scumteam Alonzo and Michael Scott?

Michael Scott’s activity pattern so far feels scummy. I also don’t like their posts in the past two pages especially much.

Also Michael Scott is still scum~~~~~~||||~~~~~

Consider my vote on Michael Scott.

That leaves a scumpool of Michael/Varsoon/khaki (not fixing this autocorrect bc it’s too good to)/Alonzo (though these four are all very different opinions which I will elaborate again when not mobile.) it also leaves a cheese pool of you know who

Empty pushes sans explanation or engagement. Bad.

[Michael Scott]

Why is Varsoon scum? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall seeing uninvested Varsoon as town before. I'll check to see if he does the same as scum, but I don't recall anyone in this game presenting any reasons to scumread Varsoon.

[Michael Scott]

Brigitte, what are your scumreads at right now? What's your read on me?

[Michael Scott]

Auro is incredibly insightful and capable as town, and Volxen I've seen go deep into trying to clear one of his pet townreads at the expense of paranoia of two otherwise rather obvtown slots (Auro/CoA) because he was so careful about accidentally town-clearing a potential deepwolf, here.

Volxen's been busy RL the whole time, he hasn't even had the chance to read the game. It's been all me.
One inaccuracy - both I and CoA had Volxen as locktown from his crumb in the link you posted. How does Volxen trying to clear his townreads, in any way, lead to "He's scum for the bad townread" here?
Also, regarding my own town capability - which towngames are you even basing this off of, since we don't have any completed experience except for the Connect marathon games?

[Michael Scott]

Ugh. I'm being dinged on for activity patterns. My time zone makes me sleep when y'all are active, and awake when you guys sleep - so I have to read multiple pages when I'm up and my posts are always gonna look like a "burst of activity".

This shouldn't factor in to reads on me.

[Michael Scott]

I'll catch up later.

[Michael Scott]

why would i push you when michael scott is obvscum

I'll point out why your case is invalid when I get time.

As far as tone goes - "purely logical" or some shit, that's my tone regardless of alignment. Verifiable my meta, read the Newbie Robacalypse game.

Activity patterns - Timezone difference, and I verifiably find it a bit harder to get into the game as town. I've been scum a bunch of times and I dominate the game's I'm in as scum - I'm not afraid of posting a lot. Again, verifiable by meta across at least 5 scumgames.

[Michael Scott]

Also from towngames. Starcraft Mafia 2, where I was lackluster D1.
Not an excuse for meh play here, absolutely - and I do admit I'm not giving my all this game - but yeah, erratic activity is definitely NAI.

[Michael Scott]

Sorry again, I haven't found time to catch up properly. Will do in a day.

[Michael Scott]

A lot of his play around suspicion on him feels like he's repeatedly going "a-ha, this reason to suspect me is actually invalid!" in a way that doesn't actually meaningfully engage with people, doesn't actually refute the points they were making, doesn't try to sort them. He's asking questions or making statements that don't lead anywhere interesting.

this (referring to Michael Scott) + pretty much everything in 1085 is absolutely in line with how I've been feeling, with a few extra points I hadn't even considered

Examples of questions that "don't lead anywhere"? Everything I asked was to gain an answer I could evaluate.

Also ofc I'll call out invalid reasons on invalid reasons. Activity tell - NAI, Robot tone - NAI.

[Michael Scott]

Also it's probably likely that scum doesn't have sword flavor.

What does this mean?

[Michael Scott]

itt brigitte is online for a massive amount of time posting in scum thread but not in this game.

Why can't it be her neighbourhood?

[Michael Scott]

is this seriously all you have to offer

No.
I'm reading the thread.
Geez.

[Michael Scott]

Varsoon, you said I'm probably town, wanna talk about how you arrived there?
Changed your mind on hearing the cases on me?

[Michael Scott]

Hey man, when you've got scum, you hold onto that nugget.

I assumed that 3 hours ago when you commented on one of the latest posts, you had already read the thread

Nope, haven't.
I've been very loosely following the game at certain parts/pages, but I get... nothing

[Michael Scott]

Scum

[Michael Scott]

But who knows. Varsoon's play reminds me of Excalibur for some reason, I've seen him recently pretty passionate as town

[Michael Scott]

Eh, your approach reminded me of how you guys usually are.
Maybe it's just in me to default read your tone as town, though?
You don't give me the heebie jeebies but I am curious why other people are spooked by you.

Dude, what about Newbie 1898?

[Michael Scott]

I liked the part in Excalibur where town went along with scum boldfaced lying fake claims in-thread.

I really do wish I was more engage with this game but I'm also like
Do I really want that at the expense of getting angry at this game?
It's just D1. We can chill and lynch at the bad dudes and big shrugs if it's a townflip.

I was trying to make sense of all of that, was confused as shit and townread you for it.
Yeah, I kiiiinda have the same attitude as you this game, I'm having to force myself to read and get in.

[Michael Scott]

In the Newbie game, I didn't have enough a baseline for your rhetoric.
I am fairly unsure of my ability to really figure if you're scum or not--I have problems reading your tone. You do a lot of AI things that I would normally read one way or another for other players but for you I know it's AI, like a lot of the mechanic spec and informed justification of wagoning.

Fair enough. I'll be cheeky enough to say that a "meh" showing from me so far is a towntell, take that as you wish.

[Michael Scott]

@Guilty: I'm competent enough as scum to produce pretty good looking content (I have a high scum winrate) (Also Varsoon can attest), after a couple recent towngames I'm sorta lost sorting-wise. I don't feel like any of the wagons are great. I feel like RC's Brigitte push is exaggerated.

[Michael Scott]

Prolly my rants after SC2?

[Michael Scott]

I relate.
Yep, being overgamed is a shit.
Maybe sometime we can Hydra and take notes together

[Michael Scott]

I hope my pocketing attempt worked ^.^

[Michael Scott]

[Michael Scott]

Too soon

[Michael Scott]

I have to work for a bit but I'll do some thinking, I'd like to at least try to find a scumread we can agree on

This would be great, if you can tell me to look for something specific as I read the game.

[Michael Scott]

I mean we can start with Fractured again, because I still really don't think you should have townread them when you did.

I agree that posting reads and sharing thoughts in a detailed manner at that stage of the game

can

be NAI for some slots, and townreading merely for doing that is a textbookish way of looking at things - but I currently feel like anything can come from scum or town, and more often than not, a sincere attempt to move the game forward comes from town. I also have a mild feel of Enter's thought processes now, so I can evaluate his content with a better lens.

Do you have any reason to scumread the slot?

[Michael Scott]

@MS, you townread us but you haven't directly engaged with us, why?

Haven't been in the game, for the most part.
I'll focus here more, and if I'm not able to get myself to, I'll replace.

[Michael Scott]

Both mbaki and Michael Scott are playing in approaches and manners that move the game forward.

In contrast, Alonzo is playing in a manner that moves the game backward.

I can't surmise how you can land on a townread on Alonzo for "genuine game-solving" when Michael Scott is in fact a much better example for the same reason.

I think Fractured is a pretty easy read for town and it's odd how, if I follow, you scumread Michael Scott for obtaining the obvious and likely correct read.

I don't see anything of merit from Alonzo.

like all of these claims should be of interest to you, Fractured, Alonzo, and myself

Alonzo's ISO at least to that point was a lot of filler. You quoted these posts of his: 206, 470, 490, 701 as appearing towny, but I fail to see it that way. I don't see his posts as "geniunely game-solvey" at least until that point, and I agree with Johnny English's assessment of it.

[Michael Scott]

viewtopic.php?p=10811493&user_select%5B ... #p10811493



Johnny's ISO has very less filler and a lot of stances, and also attempts to rally a divided town, for example

[Michael Scott]

Feel free to lynch me to prove my Brigitte case isn't exaggerated if you actually believe that.

You do these kinda pushes on purpose / to reaction test and stuff too.

[Michael Scott]

brigitte doesn't have a better way of dealing with me in said 'walkbacks' because anything they could say works against the purposes of their current play.
they don't want to lynch me today. lynching me today comes at a price. they want to slowly plant the seed of my mislynch far later in the game in a way that involves others leading the lynch on me, not them.
you're fucking high if you think that brigitte says something as stupid as 'i townread you but still feel like you are trying to manipulate me' regarding my actions there.

I really feel like whatever she says, you could construe as scummy.

[Michael Scott]

Any other reasons she's scum apart from her interactions towards you?

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: Brigitte

You better be right.

[Michael Scott]

But you're 100% confident.

[Michael Scott]

I've two confident townreads - English and mbaki.
I've one confident scumread - GuiltyLion.

[Michael Scott]

Wait - taking back the Johnny English confident read until something happens.

[Michael Scott]

RC, Implo - Do you guys see scum!GL as well?

[Michael Scott]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Sure, give me a moment.

[Michael Scott]

@Guilty: I'm competent enough as scum to produce pretty good looking content (I have a high scum winrate) (Also Varsoon can attest), after a couple recent towngames I'm sorta lost sorting-wise. I don't feel like any of the wagons are great. I feel like RC's Brigitte push is exaggerated.

word, I can sympathize with this. I do agree I've seen Auro scum play better than what you've done so far this game and I'm 100% with ya on RC's push being exaggerated (problem with RC being that he exaggerates pushes as town too)

I have to work for a bit but I'll do some thinking, I'd like to at least try to find a scumread we can agree on

For starters^ goes back on a very strong push on me when I mention I think RC's push is exaggerated; agrees "100%" and wants to work together.

[Michael Scott]

wait

i'm not a confident townread for you, michael scott?

I want you to be, but you possess the ability to be universally townread as scum and also advance that bussing is a good thing, so idk. Dunno how to read ya.

[Michael Scott]

hell, would you townread me if I got cop innoed?

Yesh

[Michael Scott]

ok so you're basically asserting that i'm scum or potential scum regardless of what I do short of being mechanically innocent?

that sort of defeats the purpose of playing a mafia game with me, no?

You're not a lynch option for me today.
I might townread you for other reasons as the game progresses.

[Michael Scott]

I will also rely on slots that are established as reading you well.

[Michael Scott]

I'm

not a lynch option for you today

??????

Yeah, I want to lynch GL. I wouldn't support an RC lynch in the theoretical world where it's being pushed.

Auro.

[Michael Scott]

Didn't get to talk much with him, he hasn't quite read the game yet.

[Michael Scott]

Sure.
GL case from association alone should be convincing c

[Michael Scott]

Need that read accuracy first

[Michael Scott]

I will also rely on slots that are established as reading you well.

Hi,

RC is town.

Sincerely,

your only town read

Cool then. RC is town.
:3

[Michael Scott]

Also Reality Check must be town right? Is mafia having a neighborhood with mafia a thing?

[Michael Scott]

Also Reality Check must be town right? Is mafia having a neighborhood with mafia a thing?

Town or 3rd party, yes. If a 3rd party is in the game its actually kind of (?) likely to be them.

But I would say 9:1 town and we aren't lynching there pretty much ever bar weird shit. Also, their play was just townie anyways.

Unlikely third party. If you observe Brigitte's Role PM, she was informed of her neighbor's alignment. Right?

[Michael Scott]

GL, where are you on Reality Check?

[Michael Scott]

oh hey creature is in the second highest probability scum slot in the game. fun stuff

Didn't Creature fudge his town meta?
Why was Varsoon likely scum again?

[Michael Scott]

not townreading me here is fucking vile

Lol, sure

[Michael Scott]

explain how a secret mayor changes anything about votes that were on the wagon beforehand

The mayoring happened when JE cast his vote, I think.

[Michael Scott]

Hence the reason I thought JE could be involved with the Keen votes. He also mentioned he's be voting at a later stage for reasons. Given that's true, he's strong town for me.

[Michael Scott]

Can someone explain the Implo locktown read?

[Michael Scott]

MS what do you think of my "mbaki is the busser" theory

Had mbaki as a townread because their thoughts seemed natural. I know you said he's good at faking it, but one of his posts where he re-evaluated me after reading BoP felt super genuine.

Interesting I dropped from high town again after your claim though.

[Michael Scott]

what was that [necessary violence] vote that was on there

Talking about the Keen?
Where did you see that particular phrasing?

[Michael Scott]

first guess right now is michael scott / creature

Wrong.

[Michael Scott]

first guess right now is michael scott / creature

Wrong.

Also, I shouldn't be lynched till Volxen gets the time to come and post.

[Michael Scott]

Thanks. I didn't recall that phrase in the flip (saw it later I suppose) I thought it was a slip.

[Michael Scott]

GuiltyLion

Is this only because of his claim?

[Michael Scott]

Curious, what makes you think I'm scum?

[Michael Scott]

Curious, what makes you think I'm scum?

I'm voting for lulz

Omgus

[Michael Scott]

not worth the effort to case right now sorry

No need to case, just tl;dr in the general direction.

[Michael Scott]

Volx should be around today.

[Michael Scott]

Also yeah I shouldn't be lynched cause I'm town anyway

[Michael Scott]

No u.

Boom. Roasted.

[Michael Scott]

still think michael scott is scum.

So apart from "excessive interactions with Brigitte", what else do ya have on me?

[Michael Scott]

playing to your scum meta, bad associatives with lovebird

Go into greater detail about my "scum meta", if you will.

[Michael Scott]

what else do ya have on me?

I have nothing on you, which is the problem.

Exactly like Starcraft Mafia 2?

[Michael Scott]

also refusing to townread me in a way that feels like you trying to keep my lynch as an open option.

Oh, so an indirect OMGUS.

i don't have to. this won't be another game where i want to lynch you and can't because both my townmates are tvting

Oh please, you basically wanted to lynch everybody.

[Michael Scott]

i can literally just say let's kill MS and have you die

Yes, but you realize this works only once, right? You failed to lynch me as scum in BoP; and if you powerlynch me as town in this game, you can't assert you can read me in future games.

[Michael Scott]

at the point where i actually wanted to vote people and end the game

i tried to convince people to vote you.

Eventually you townread me and "convinced" me to vote Saudade.
And even after the flip, your solve was URAP+Shoshin.

[Michael Scott]

but I thought I was scum

Quote me saying it.

[Michael Scott]

I thought you were scum with sau

I thought you were caught out by your reluctance to vote

I know you were sorta suspecting Me+Sau from my "Let's wait for Volx" crap, it was intentional. Also to look natural.

[Michael Scott]

if you didn't realize that I was reaction testing you/sau because I couldn't lynch you lol

Lol, I recognized a lot of your reaction tests. I was considering your "MS is scum for a myriad of reasons" push as a reaction test and deliberately manipulated my scum meta of "fighting a lynch" from Newbie 1898 to manipulate you into townreading me.

[Michael Scott]

RC how certain are you of this solve

I'd say this is still an interesting fight.

RC's reasons for wanting to lynch me are lacking.
The rest have me in a "PoE" because they fail to form a read on me; with the exception of Johnny English.

[Michael Scott]

you have an awful high opinion of your scumgame based on your success in a game where i was supposed to townread a moron who insists that he's unreadable because he copy and pastes his posts from game to game

I don't have a high opinion of my scumgame.
My assertion is that you read me wrong.

[Michael Scott]

He said he copies and pastes his style, not his game - he means he plays identically as town and scum, which is fair.

[Michael Scott]

your assertion is stupid because at the sole point that I intended to place a meaningful vote I wanted to place it on you.

*Shrug*
You had me as scum

because

of the association with Saudade.
Where Saudade wasn't scum.

[Michael Scott]

and I voted the person who I thought had the highest equity of being your scumpartner because I couldn't lynch you. and that's clearly in the thread. so if you want to insist I can't read you, lol.

Lol indeed.

[Michael Scott]

he means he plays identically as town and scum, which is fair.

it's not fair it's an awfully stupid thing to say.

Most people on site strive to copy their town meta into their scumgames.

[Michael Scott]

wrong.

I had you as scum and I voted Sau because he seemed like your partner.

Again, /shrug
Post-flip your guess was URAP+Shoshin.

[Michael Scott]

Anyway, I don't particularly care about what you *intended* to do that game, etc etc.

Show me how this play matches my scum meta.

[Michael Scott]

even if they were playing your towngame as scum is bad because you're playing to a town wincondition instead of a scum one.

In terms of playing to town wincon as scum, no.
In terms of posting style in general, yes.

Asking meaningful questions, having a presence in the thread, things like that. That's what Saudade probs meant.

[Michael Scott]

again: why? what does it do for me?

it would be more of a token for respect for you if you're town but i have

no respect for someone who doesn't townread

me in this situation so . . .

For my curiosity, but feel free not to.
I don't care for respect. I'm here to play Mafia.
But then I shall also assert that you lack any solid reason to lynch me, and that holds.

[Michael Scott]

i wouldn't say i perfectly copy and paste my style from scum to town and i'm pretty close to the upper limits of scumplay. saying that as someone who frequently loses trivial games is pretty sketchy.

I'm making a charitable interpretation of what he said, not taking it at literal face-value. But you do you!

[Michael Scott]

do you think it would prevent me from hypothetically lynching you?

No, but I wouldn't take blame for being lynched.

[Michael Scott]

do you think it would prevent me from hypothetically lynching you?

No, but I wouldn't take blame for being lynched.

Also, I'd appreciate it if people don't blindly sheep RC and show their own reasoning for wanting to lynch me - preferably outside "PoE".
Or, of course, admit that they don't have any solid basis too.

[Michael Scott]

you're not townreading the person who led on scum who was near universally townread so...

Had you as town after GL's claim if that's to be trusted, and trusting other people's reads.
I don't think I can sort you; and I do know you've advanced the notion that people who refuse to bus don't have a good scumrange.

[Michael Scott]

You've never, as scum, led a lynch on a scum teammate who's townread?

[Michael Scott]

Also geez. "Not townreading me, upper echelons of scum play" blah blah is a terrible reason to scumread me for.

[Michael Scott]

Like, it doesn't even matter. I just ignored your slot, I had other townreads I felt confident on, I had a scumread I felt confident on.

[Michael Scott]

If I'm right on who Brigitte is, there are probably other reasons scum RC would bus her d1

It isn't 100% impossible, just unlikely without a plan beyond it, such as actually killing somebody

Exactly - someone who eventually gets lynched as scum anyway, for example.

i don't bus anymore b/c i don't want people scumreading me as town.

i'm good enough to win without it nowadays, etc.

Sure, but if I had believed you believed said stance at the time of the flip, that bussing alone wouldn't give me reason to confidently townread you, no?

[Michael Scott]

if we're gonna have the did rc bus brigitte discussion i'm just going to prod dodge and play my other games.

It's a useless discussion.

Let's talk about me!

[Michael Scott]

Brigitte did make mistakes in the neighborhood if it helps

What sort of mistake are you talking about?

[Michael Scott]

Now that she's dead, you mind outing those mistakes?

[Michael Scott]

Also, you had me at "Who is this person" - still no read on me?

[Michael Scott]

what else do ya have on me?

I have nothing on you, which is the problem.

Exactly like Starcraft Mafia 2?

Atleast something was happening in Starcraft Mafia 2 even though town was extremely impatient/unwilling to win the game.

And I was the most willing.

[Michael Scott]

I mean the other partner CAN still be GL tbh

[Michael Scott]

I have been informed Brigitte is town.

to affirm that I buy both of Brigitte's/Reality Check's claims regarding eachother and have them both as town

This post (by GL) still pings me for some reason. I felt that Reality's claim on Brigitte wasn't serious, and GL very readily bought

both

of their claims.

[Michael Scott]

I know. I just wanted to point this out before I forgot.

[Michael Scott]

And what did I have to remember to do? idr

Brigitte's mistakes.

[Michael Scott]

but the part that pinged me is that she immediately in the same post tried to get me to focus my attention on the players with less presence in the thread instead.

If that's the case, then there's something kinda... wrong in the current gamestate, no? Because it's the low-presence slots that are being pushed, as far as I can see.

[Michael Scott]

I think the possibility of MS being scum should be taken a v srs

Possible? Yeah.
Probable? Nope.

Your case is still half-OMGUS half-nothing and an objectively untrue allegation that I'm playing to scum meta.

[Michael Scott]

my read on the gamestate is going to be unstable until I know why all these slots are being locktowned

I've been asking for a long while why Implosion is "locktown" and no one's bothering to answer.

[Michael Scott]

michael scott (since I'm bad with reading logic and I specced enough of sc2 to not even want to try with them)

I'm sorry my play ruins the game slightly for ya? Honestly don't feel like I've been a logical machine this game.

[Michael Scott]

I think we should honestly lynch MS today purely for calling me potential scum right now.

I have trouble believing that's an actual viewpoint he has

And if he gets lynched for having it he won't have it in the future in similar situations.

How does that sound to everyone

"Best scumhunter on site"

Disgusting OMGUS and gross misrep. Also, sorry kiddo but you're not going to strongarm me into conforming to your will by threatening, or even actually lynching me. By all means, though, you can try.

[Michael Scott]

You don't seem fazed at all that the other RC considers the possibility that you bussed; and has you as town for other reasons - i.e. she believes the Brigitte play alone isn't necessarily good evidence to strongly townread you.

If that's a viewpoint confirmed town has, it's very within the realm of believability that other town can have it, too.

To justify that *I* in particular shouldn't have said viewpoint even if, in theory, town *can* hold it (which has been effectively proven), we would require prior completed experience; but our only completed game had me as scum against you where I established you town.

Also a reminder that all this is just for refusing to *confidently* townread you - not for not townreading you at all, and there's an important distinction.

[Michael Scott]

We need a replacement for Lovebird.

[Michael Scott]

Feel like Creature's town.
Is Johnny English returning? Else we need to wait for that slot's replacement too.

[Michael Scott]

Uhh so you're saying GL+RC is a scumteam?

[Michael Scott]

So your townread on RC disappeared just because he pushed you..?

[Michael Scott]

I wouldn't have known before this game not to play with Auro

Cause I'm playing the game?

[Michael Scott]

Don't want to lynch a claimed cop today. We get one result for sure tomorrow, because GL can doc him.

[Michael Scott]

I wouldn't have known before this game not to play with Auro

Cause I'm playing the game?

Again, FTR.

Reality says it's possible the Brigitte push can be theater. She's townreading the slot for other reasons.
Mbaki says it's possible the Brigitte push can be theater.

I just mentioned I don't have a confident townread on this fella, and he's going crazy about it.

Playing "objectively towny" is a poor argument, because if you know what makes someone *objective* town, you simply play that way. Pushing a scum lynch fails to be objective town for someone who's done that as scum.

[Michael Scott]

I'm town, and everyone (apart from claims) seems to be townread save Lovebird (who needs a replacement). From my PoV, something *is* wrong in the gamestate (also mildly evidenced by Brigitte's neighborhood post).

It is probably to town's best interest to lynch my slot since there's a continued failure to correctly townread me (fighting my own lynch, if RC decides to kill me out of spite, is an uphill battle which I eventually lose in most universes), although I believe there are multiple AI plays in my content. For example,

1. My Brigitte vote: I was the second vote on the wagon, and didn't attempt to push anyone towards a different vote. Note my preceding GL interactions - *he* attempted to find a common scumread apart from Brigitte, and my response was lackluster - if I was scum, I would've made a better effort there to try and move off of Brigitte. I also would've tried defending against her push. Of course, you could say that as scum, it's the safer play to "sheep RC and bus" but objectively, with town blocks forming that didn't have me in them, the more likely play I'd make is the former.
2. My lackluster play: Is an actual towntell of mine, as I've pointed out before. Feel free to check against my scum meta - I'm always opinionated and dominant as scum. BoP was a mild exception to this since physical factors prevented me from playing to my fullest, but even there, I wasn't as meh as I am here.

[Michael Scott]

JE is pretty blatantly town from d1, my friend. I think he's my third strongest town read after Parm (tbf this isn't a read) and other RC.

Yes. And there's reason to believe JE is responsible for the Brigitte lynch by virtue of the Keen votes, this should objectively make him town by RC's apparent definitions of it.

[Michael Scott]

Why?

[Michael Scott]

JE is pretty blatantly town from d1, my friend. I think he's my third strongest town read after Parm (tbf this isn't a read) and other RC.

Yes. And there's reason to believe JE is responsible for the Brigitte lynch by virtue of the Keen votes, this should objectively make him town by RC's apparent definitions of it.

So you either believe JE isn't responsible for the Keen votes, or he bussed with a triple vote. Which one?

[Michael Scott]

Dunno if this is addressed to me, but for the record, all I did was not call you a confident townread of mine, and this was before the doc claim.

Unfair accusations.

[Michael Scott]

i'm not calling anyone out for anything specific right now. i'm making a statement.

Sure. When you're back to playing the game, do tell me how JE can be scum here.

[Michael Scott]

like brigitte is capable of posting, and when she's been handed a stay of execution she's gonna fight for it i think.

Wasn't she sorta pissed before this happened at one point? I need to check.

[Michael Scott]

I want Brigitte

Not interested.

@Mod VLA till Friday

This seems to have happened before the JE vote. I don't think she would've agreed to be bussed so prematurely with a triple vote while being townread universally?

[Michael Scott]

i think lovebird sorta has to be scum.

She does seem to have siteflaked. What in her ISO is scum indicative? Same reasons as GL?

[Michael Scott]

actually there is stuff that points to MS/JE, heh. a decent amount of it.

Well, Johnny has been defending me - but I'm town.

[Michael Scott]

actually there is stuff that points to MS/JE, heh. a decent amount of it.

So - *both* JE and I decided to yolobus Brigitte, when you pushed her, inspite of her being a universal townread?

[Michael Scott]

brigitte isn't really the type to not try to get me to unvote them

You mean as town specifically, and as scum she'd more likely give up much earlier when you began pushing her?

[Michael Scott]

i like this ms/je solve. feels good to me.

I'm okay with my lynch since it'll force many town players to re-evaluate.

Before I die, I want to work with someone to solve the game because, from my PoV, I'm town.

Would you be willing to, or "no respect so no working with you"?

[Michael Scott]

A JE townflip would make you want to lynch me afterwards anyway, correct?

[Michael Scott]

I don't think JE should be the lynch today.

[Michael Scott]

creature/JE is kinda juicy tbh

Don't think scum Creature townreads me off our 1v1 when I'm an easy target.

[Michael Scott]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=78296&user_select[]=27374
I feel like he shitposted quite a bit here too, as town, but yeah the timing of transition from shitposting to solving is something to note maybe.