Newbie 1922: Give Smith Another Day - Game Over

[redMeow]

I would really like to look back at Demigodrick's post the way I did with RadiantCowbells but I don't have the time for that now so either you wait for it or someone else is going to drop the hammer before. Would appreciate if you're giving me that chance.

RC:
Finally I can see where you're coming from and really, it's impressive how you read me. The phrases, the wording, etc.

So what can I say about that? I wish language wasn't an issue.
English isn't my mother tongue. I don't want this to be an excuse though, as I think my english is quite okay (or even good?), but certainly I could be more accurate if this game was played in my language.
Maybe it is just not as natural as from a native speaker. I don't want this excuse, I'd actually like to be treated as one.

I can see how the phrases "i believe, honestly, my opinion, etc" add up being scummy. But basically we're all tapping in the dark here, no?
We have no evidence, so we all are basing this on our opinions and I feel better expressing my thoughts this way.
The fact that everyone (minus mafia obviously) is only basing their thoughts on opinions makes me think it's okay to leave these phrases out in this game, because everyone knows you don't have evidence anyway.
Okay, I get that.

If it matters: in real life aswell I do struggle with decisions and I struggle only having only one view or opinion on issues.
I like to argue or discuss whatever topics and I will usually try and look at the issue with their eyes just aswell, because I want to understand their point of view.
(Hope that sentence makes sense)
Oh, and I am more tempted to overthink generally.

Haha, yeah, mafia is a great game for me to sign up to. Lmaooo.

The vote on MJL was rushed. we've gotten slowly out of RVS and I felt GuiltyLion wasn't a good vote anymore.
As I later explained, I didn't like how MJL has been interacting with RC and vice versa. I probably should've voted RC in the first place, because (as explained) he was the one I had the original feelings about of being "anti-town".
It's not a black and white question here. Back to that point I simply didn't get along his way of playing, it riddled me, and I pointed out what bothered me, but (I am repeating myself now…) it wasn't enough to cast my vote on him.
So I thought picking MJL was a good choice, which I said I am not sure about because I kinda knew it was a rushed vote.

Although, with what MJL has currently added to this, I am thinking of swaying back to her. I dunno why someone would be so passive and almost blindly follow someone. That someone here she's following is an experienced player, and probably a good one, but anyway, it really bugs me.

I gotta go now. I wanna go through their posts (Demigodrick and MJL) as well but I simply can not right now.

[ClearlyClarity]

you want me to not scumread you

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll townread you if you agree to be my friend

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: unvote[/uv]

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

[RadiantCowbells]

I want redmeow more I think.

[RadiantCowbells]

Godrick does has some town feels.

[RadiantCowbells]

Godrick is town.

Sticking to it.

[RadiantCowbells]

MKM still town. CC town enough for D1.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to assume TOM is town by sheer wim for now. RC is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

MJL is too cute to vote day 1.

[RadiantCowbells]

Redmeow is honestly too pure to be scum.

Let's lynch one of the experienced players.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: guiltylion

I'm a cute seal sheep me

[RadiantCowbells]

We all need to take a step back

I strongly feel right now that godrick and redmeow are town

I'm going to revisit this tomorrow but I think scum are getting townread right now

[RadiantCowbells]

Like... yikes

Idk why I overlooked how pure all the newbies were in favor of bad reads on people based on phrasing. I knew there was a reason I wasn't happy with my reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Please don't put anyone at even l2 while I'm gone and take anyone who is off tyia

[RadiantCowbells]

I am extreme sure that GL is scum right now based on a world famous tell invented by none other than the moderator of this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can all the newbies I've had bad scumreads on this game forgive me

[RadiantCowbells]

Not yet sure on GL tbh need some time

[MaryJoLisa]

Can all the newbies I've had bad scumreads on this game forgive me

You had a fleeting bad scum read on me, but I forgive you for it. I was expecting some huge reveal with redMeow, but that didn't happen.

Here's our list.

redMeow (Newbie)
MaryJoLisa (Newbie)
Demigodrick (Newbie)
ThatOneMedic (Newbie)
Miss Kobayashi Maru (Newbie)
ClearlyClarity (Newbie)
RadiantCowbells

(Semi-Experienced)

(Extremely Experienced)
Formerfish (Semi-Experienced)
GuiltyLion (Semi-Experienced)

RC needed some time to "do his thing" with reading redMeow, and that resulted in a town-read. RC has, by his own admission, the most experience of anyone on this forum. Check out his wiki page (which hasn't been updated lately, but still reflects his record). By all rights, RC should be able to come in here, get solid reads off a group of newbies and contribute a lot of meaningful content to the game. I can't help but wonder if the reason RC isn't coming up with more, or that he stalled so long to provide redMeow's ultimately town read is that he's scum and he's stalling us to get to the end of day. (This is contradictory to what I'm suggesting, but he *did* suggest an extension to the timer when Godrick and I replaced in and it was me that hoped there would be no need for an extension).

If none of the newbies are coming up scummy, then that leaves the experienced players. RC's ability to play scum is apparently renowned on this site and while I have no idea what techniques he uses to so successfully pull off so many Mafia wins, I would suggest that people start examining his scum games and see it isn't possible that he's playing his typical scum game here.

Rundown:

Not finding scum in a group of newbies.
Not finding scum in a group of semi-experienced players.
"the most experienced player on this forum" (his words, not mine).
Extremely high win rate as mafia.


I think people should invest some time taking a deeper look at RC.


Sorry RC! You're still really cute, though! <3

[Demigodrick]

Not gonna lie, been away for a day and I'm pretty confused as to what has happened

RC, you continue to confuse me and make my head hurt trying to understand the logic behind your posts.

I am extreme sure that GL is scum right now based on a world famous tell invented by none other than the moderator of this game.

Not yet sure on GL tbh need some time

Like, what??

Anywho, Hi ThatOneMedic. You've posted an awful lot of stuff and i really dont have the time to go back through quoting everything. I just think you've tunnelled me pretty hard, starting out calling me scum from my first post, as if RCs failed vote on page 1 actually meant something. You've even said that if I've posted something town, you could see it being a scum POV? Well, fuck me right?

Town or scum motivated? Town, but I do feel uneasy about you. For example, GL has made 9 posts, and you have him as "ultra-town". Is that really enough content to be making that sort of declaration? I have my own reads towards GL, as I've detailed, yet you have my two scummiest reads (FF, GL) as your towniest reads.

MJL

, you've buddied RC pretty hard from the start, even asked him what you should do/who you should vote. To turn around and say "I think people should invest some time taking a deeper look at RC" - well, its a bit on the nose isn't it? You're my third scum read after FF/GL.

I see the points people are making against Redmeow, and i can appreciate the issues people are having with her, however to me she just screams newbie poking around in the dark trying her best. Thats how i am feeling too. Other people are making good points against her though, so a null read for me right now.

I haven't really had much to do with ClearlyClarity, however its the following post that stands out to me the most:

With Demi at L-1 right now, I still haven't heard substantiated explanations from three of the four (Kobayashi, GuiltyLion, Cowbells) about why they're voting for him. Formerfish's analysis vibes with me pretty well, but not enough to fully convince me. I'm sus of the way Demi tunnels on Kobayashi instead of trying to defend himself, but then again I've been guilty of doing the same. Hoping my posts will remedy that.

I'll think on it but I have my FoS on Demi.

if you have your FoS on Demi, why do you also want explanations from three people voting him? I would assume that we are likely town seeing the same things you're seeing. If you're

not

seeing reasons to be suspicious ("not enough to convince me"), then why are you FoSing Demi regardless instead of the people making a questionable vote/push?

I agree with the tunneling on Kobayashi but that's it. And since I've done the same thing, I'm hesitant to scumread someone with that justification only.

Now that I re-read the posts again, though, I can see where the "tryhard" accusation is coming from. Looking back, a page three reads post gives off the impression of knowledge while not actually contributing anything of value. I'm also inclined to agree GL because SE.

VOTE: Demigodrick

The first post says you're not fully convinced with a vote on me.

GL pushes you, doesn't answer your question

You vote me after a "re-read". Scum interaction with GL maybe?

[MaryJoLisa]

I like to be safer than most, so I would like to declare

intent to L-1

.

You know, I think I understand why MJL is confused about how this goes now.

I just noticed this post. OMG, THANK YOU! It is confusing!

[ThatOneMedic]

Back. Things happened.

Still conflicted on Red. I have more issues with her posts than just her tonality.

Feeling worse about MJL after 344. When I reread it, it sounds like the point you're making is that "RC hasn't found all the scum yet, so therefore he's more likely scum", and that feels like a real stretch of logic.
Moreover, regarding the point about his lack of contribution of meaningful content based on his experience: why was this only posted just now, after he's already become a lot more active? You've kept mostly to yourself throughout most of this game, and it seems like this post could have been made a lot earlier in the day. Posting it here makes it feel like you're taking advantage of his reversing his reads for the sake of making a case.
This whole post feels opportunistic.

@MJL, what would you say you've been paying the most attention to this game? I really want to hear more of your thoughts.


On that same note, RC's sudden flip seems ultra-town. I can't find any sort of scum motivation where it makes sense. We've been pushing Red and Godrick for most of the day now. If he was buddies with one of the two, he could have just flipped his case to the other one pretty easily, and if he's not, there's no reason for him to want to turn this around right at the end of the day. The only thing I can think of is that this might be some sort of ultra-next-level "look how town I was that one day" kind of approach, and even then, I don't think making a big scene at the end of the day would be better for him than just sitting back in that scenario.


@Demigodrick Sorry for the walls of text. Had a lot to reread.
I've been pretty focused in on both you and Red for most of the day. Your early posts stuck out for me, and since then I've had a hard time following the underlying thought process behind either of your posts.
I don't think I said that "even if you posted something town, I could see it being scum POV". I believe I said that there was a block of four posts you made a while back that I didn't like overall but had a couple of points that came off as super townie, so it threw my read off.

GL's lack of content is a good point, but the posts he did make were good ones, and a lot of them pointed out a few things that I think would have gotten completely lost otherwise (the post you quoted from GL about clearly actually being my favorite example). There were at least 2-3 points where I was first reading the game where I read a post, made a point about it, and then GL came in and made that point a few posts later, so I feel pretty good about him. I did make that read while I was initially reading through, though, and he hadn't vanished off the face of the earth by then. I also have no idea what Seal's up to.

I'm interested in hearing about where your scumread on FF came from; I don't recall ever seeing a big point of it when I was reading through.
You say your top scumreads right now are FF and GL, but all of your points are addressed to other people. Why don't you have any questions for those two?

If you want me to believe that you're town, where do you think I should look?

[RadiantCowbells]

If I was scum I'd have 180ed after we got the claim ftr

[ThatOneMedic]

oh ok

wait he wasn't even around though

how do I know you didn't just give up on the claim then