Mini Normal 2060: World Architecture [Endgame]

[Persivul]

Here. Will catch up later today or tomorrow.

[Persivul]

Also, policy:

VOTE: Dr Worm

What's the policy?

[Persivul]

I'm sure you will see shortly.

What, is he a total shit show?

[Persivul]

I feel like one of the rebel troopers waiting outside the blast door in the beginning of A New Hope before the storm troopers break through and Vader appears.

Rogue One did the same scene, but better.

[Persivul]

And...there it is.

Yeah that didn't take long.

Whose alt is that? Has there been any decent speculation?

[Persivul]

VOTE: persivul

I'm gonna ask that PP keep up his top notch comedic antics this entire game please and thank you.

Salty that I nailed you as scum in our last outing?

[Persivul]

I’m only voting Persivul because we just won a solid scum game together against a competent playerlist, and I wanted to be egocentric and talk about that before moving on.

Solid.

UNVOTE: Persivul

Oh sorry...was I supposed to say

you're voting me because we just won together as scum

to give you opportunity to talk about it? But yeah, it was a good win.

[Persivul]

Now there aren't enough votes on Persivul and I have enough stomach to handle the worm for a bit longer, so VOTE: Persivul

D1 wagons can be really useful later...but not when people are making wagons just for the sake of making wagons.

[Persivul]

this feels like a weird statement....that youre saying people wagon people just to wagon but with no substance...?

I don't know how else to read 34. Worm hadn't even posted yet, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there wasn't any substance on that wagon.

[Persivul]

What about him gives you scumvibes?

[Persivul]

Oh no someone moving their vote around a lot and trying to get the game to be active when it's pretty darn stagnant is scum.

At least vote me and you don't have to make up reasons.

How did your frenetic approach work out for you in our last game?

[Persivul]

Did you think it was ineffective?

A TvT shitfest which led to you and your lover being NK'd on N1? Yeah, I'm gonna say that was ineffective.

[Persivul]

I guess WOTM wasn't in effect...

Wormie, are you like this at night too?

[Persivul]

Oh my, that looks like a direct challenge to Wormie!

[Persivul]

Now there aren't enough votes on Persivul and I have enough stomach to handle the worm for a bit longer, so VOTE: Persivul

D1 wagons can be really useful later...but not when people are making wagons just for the sake of making wagons.

The wagon on me is barely even readable FMPOV cuz everyone's vote on me looks like a joke.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Jibril
If you have to ask, you haven't read her ISO.

[Persivul]

This is why I told you to chill. You are thinking things are coming across differently than they really are. I don't want a tvt thing to go down D1 because you're emotional.

That's kind of his specialty, at least in my sample size of 1. But it does mean he's probably town. I don't see scum going to those lengths to fake frustration with town, particularly on D1.

[Persivul]

Seriously, what's the success rate on that ploy - like .0001% or something?

[Persivul]

^Above was at sadship

Did you guys just hammer jibril already?

I got pocketed by her last time, so I’m not actually super mad.

However, I’m not busy today, so I’m upset I don’t get to make an appearance if that’s the case

If you're town, maybe we can have a repeat of last game but from the other side!

[Persivul]

Gotta say though I've never seen it done at L-3 before. That's a new twist...

[Persivul]

I've never played with Jibril before. Just looks like scum to me. And personally I think towns would tend to do better with some D1 policy lynches, and/or better PR play.

[Persivul]

Persivul isn’t being aggressively manipulative like he was in our last game.

LOL - I was thinking exactly the same thing about you.

[Persivul]

Seriously, what's the success rate on that ploy - like .0001% or something?

However, do you see scum that actually try that fake hammer ploy and it not be L-1?

Not sure what you mean.

[Persivul]

It was like what, L-3? That’s not really a scum play to fake hammer like that. I feel that comes from town not scum.

IMO fake hammers are in general NAI.

[Persivul]

I really, really don't like worms posting style and I'm fine with that lynch considering his play.

I get the posting style (although I personally find it amusing), but what specifically has been scummy about his play?

[Persivul]

At least 2 Werebeasts on me I think. I will claim jailkeeper.

I think I will be dead by tomorrow if I don't.

I can see claiming JK would keep you alive today. Why would it keep you alive until tomorrow?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Mohab

[Persivul]

Wow what a Betelgeuse.

[Persivul]

OK now let's see if you can spell Mohab, preferably in vote tags.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Persivul

Was that the hammer?

[Persivul]

since when is pers a bait scum type of player+he definitely didnt joke like this when he was town

You can't tone read me. My tone depends on my mood IRL and is NAI.

What's your case on me?

I was one of the early pushers of jibril. Why did you jump on that if you find me scummy?

[Persivul]

@persi: sheeping jibril claimed pr

What does that mean?

+asking me weird question about success rate of my gambit

Fake hammers are a pet peeve of mine. I've never seen one produce useful info.

+ignoring my question to you at the time you were voting jibril

OK, that one's fair. Scum read me for it if you like.

[Persivul]

Mohab/flippnips/dr.worm/jibril

that's my lynch list. I don't have any game play to justify NMs lynch.

That's a fine group.

You sound way too confident for this point on D1.

[Persivul]

pers

What's your reasoning?

[Persivul]

Yeah, me too.

[Persivul]

LAL is about role claims, not play in general.

[Persivul]

I'm pretty sure NM's soft was a joke...

[Persivul]

Well

t

allyh

o

fuckers,

w

ould you look at this tur

n

of events,

co

uld we all commit to a rollicking good jaunt,

p

resto now

[Persivul]

I sub-buttle-ly softed cop

VOTE: Enter

Does this mean you're seriously CCing Enter?

[Persivul]

I would believe two cops.

I'd believe something like odd and even night cops, but Enter claimed full cop, albeit ascetic. It's highly unlikely there's another cop on top of that.

OTOH, NM is being his usual ambiguous self.

p-edit: As I said...

[Persivul]

Gun to my head enter is scum over NM.

Why?

[Persivul]

This is a beautiful game

I'm not fine lynching N_M

Enter idk how I feel about

Not feeling so good with lynching Persivul either

We should seriously look more at Jibril.

Don't you think if she's town scum will take care of her tonight? Why waste a lynch on her now? And if she is town JK, she might get lucky and block the kill tonight.

[Persivul]

If he is real he can still get a result, if he is true, if he is lying I can hurt him, so that would be the better choice? You disagree?

That actually does make sense.

[Persivul]

I feel like I just signed myself up for intermittent frustration for a month

I’m more inclined to believe NMs claim if it’s a serious CC, given he claimed it right away and Enter wasnt playing like PR.

It's doubtful NM will seriously confirm it.

FWIW, in our last game, Enter was town, and N1 he blurted out his role in a hood. (I used it to kill him and his lover ) Point being that early unnecessary claims aren't out of character for town!Enter.

[Persivul]

So here’s the deal.

I haven’t caught up to know exactly what’s going on, but I heard 2 cops were a thing.

What we do now is we just let them both live for a day or 2, one of them will probably be night killed, and that way we get investigative reports.

We can start killing them Day 3.

Don’t JK them Night 1, Night 2 you can gambit it.

If ever we get a flip on one of the cops, if town, cool we can trust their results. If scum, don’t put any stock in it.

No would he town clear his buddy? Or he would never town clear his buddy. Just straight up don’t take any of it to heart.

Agree with this, UNLESS NM makes a serious CC.

[Persivul]

Scum probably lurking hoping some townie gets them out of this

Regardless of what Dr. Worm flips I don't think there should be a lot of value on who's on this lynch.

Divided votes all day. Sometimes 3 wagons with the same amount of votes. Then the games activity died a bit and ppl grew restless for a lynch and now we've piled up on the guy with the odd posting style because nobody wants to have to iso this guy if he makes it to day 3 or 4. If worm had said anything of importance game related maybe, maybe I value the ppl on his wagon after the flip. Regardless of worms alignment Idc who's on this wagon though. If it flips scum then there's probably scum on it. If it flips town then it's probably the best townie lynch we could have d1.

This dude was inevitably getting lynched today. Someone please hurry up and end d1.

If Worm flips green remember this post.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Worm

That's L-1.

I'm not a fan of D1 claims, but in this game I think it makes sense for me to add mine, as it's far down the list of importance and I'm hoping not to get jailed so I can use it. I'm a town

neighborizer

. One person invited to hood each night, hood only open at night. At this point I'm planning on inviting Flavor, because I have a good town lean on him and as mentioned we recently won a game together as scum, and that game featured hoods. Seems fitting.

[Persivul]

Flavor are you cool with the hood? Going to be around some of the time?

[Persivul]

I'd think that with two cops and a jk claimed, the hood is probably safe tonight...

[Persivul]

Dude. I've played with you more than I've played with anybody else on site lol. Im well aware of your powers haha.

If I go with him for the hood...what should I watch for?

[Persivul]

-ok so for my own sanity and everyone else's:

jib - jk
nm - flipped backup watcher but claimed town cop wth dude.
enter - ascetic cop
persi - neighborizer who targeted fl n1
<watcher>

-pers why would you blurt out your role AND tell us who you would target?

what kind of joke game is this...

Jibril claims JK.
Enter claims cop.
NM claims cop.
Jibril names her target.
Flavor directs Enter to target NM, which both signs NM's death warrant, and wastes an investigation.

With all that...your concern is that I claimed neighborizer and named a target?

[Persivul]

I actually like Not Mafia’s play this game.

Claiming cop was a Near sure way to draw a night kill,

and as backup watcher, he knew there was a watcher in this game that if town was likely to target him.

If you realized that, why did you direct Enter to investigate him?

[Persivul]

since the hood is outed (which is just bizarre considering that isnt the purpose of it to keep it like a secret masonry BEFORE n1??), what did you guys even talk about @pers & fl

1. Why is that the purpose of it?
2. Why is it bizarre that I claimed neighborizer when there's a JK in play who had been scum reading me? As I explained at the time, I didn't want to be blocked.
3. The hood doesn't open until tonight. My role pm was worded poorly.

[Persivul]

since the hood is outed (which is just bizarre considering that isnt the purpose of it to keep it like a secret masonry BEFORE n1??), what did you guys even talk about @pers & fl

I don’t want to believe this is a scum slip with Persivul as the partner, but...

VOTE: Sad Sheep

How would that be a scum slip with me? If we were both scum he'd likely know the hood didn't open last night.

[Persivul]

VOTE: chennisdan

I investigated NM like you asked. My result should be relatively obvious.

Why did you investigate NM? In your own words please -

Because Flavor told me to

isn't a valid answer.

[Persivul]

is slaxx the type that always shuts down tests?

big fan of boonskies tests here. I encourage them for the most part (he's not a god he's occasionally wrong) Usually only use them after a town flip because he does the same shit as scum. You can usually tell when he's scum if he keeps mislynching. His reads are too good on a regular basis to be constantly pushing town players.

What's the point of this? The uselessness of this post sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Persivul]

I remembered Persivul likes to scum theatre early

Not really. Go back to that game and reread. I said I avoid the scum thread for awhile so that interactions develop more naturally. In our case, that resulted in scum theater, but that's not always the case. It can just as easily result in a strong town read, or nothing at all. Just depends on what I'd do as town.

[Persivul]

Which makes me start to lean Chennis scum

You think a wagon that fast with that many lower-effort votes had zero scum on it?

The last all town scum wagon I had on Day 1 almost killed me it was so hard to get through.

1 scum on, 1 off is pretty likely. 2 off is much more likely than 2 on. Playing percentages, it's better to focus more strongly off wagon.

[Persivul]

I guess jibril doesn't have any thoughts.

I see that thinking for myself was a mistake and I should have been sheeping Master. So I am doing that now. He is definitely town.

Are you using pet names for people just to make yourself harder to read?

[Persivul]

Enter is claimed Ascetic.

Jibril jail kept an ascetic instead of a claimed cop? (although fake claim). That's nice. That's real nice.

She explained it and IMO it made sense.

[Persivul]

The cop was fine. It was meant to force scum to kill within the PR’s

Why would scum not lynch claimed PRs if Enter was investigating someone other than NM?

so we don’t mislynch both.

Neither one of them was threatened with mislynch yesterday, so why was this a concern?

[Persivul]

Pers did some early game distancing with Worm but never followed up on a vote until the L-1.

It's a troll account. What kind of interactions do you expect? I took it as a policy lynch, and I'm a known supporter of D1 PLs on unreadables unless there's an obv scum.

[Persivul]

The cop was fine. It was meant to force scum to kill within the PR’s so we don’t mislynch both.

I’m just going to assume nothing you says makes sense.

If one was scum we wouldn’t mislynch both. Obviously now both those claims can be true but we didn’t really have reason to believe that yesterday.

This makes no sense. If you didn't think both were believable yesterday, and NM flipped green, you should be pushing Enter.

[Persivul]

It makes perfect sense given they both claimed cop.

You're right, nm.

[Persivul]

That’s great but if you’re that big of a fan I find it mildly convienient that you were on the back end of his wagon while being earlier on the others.

I'm not a fan of PLs early, before we've gotten information from the day.

[Persivul]

Pers has zero votes when Dr. Worm voted and didn’t lobby, push, or pressure for more.

The fact Pers put him to L-1 without a claim should worry you, not make you townread Pers. To me that indicates he knew there wouldn’t be ramifications for L-1ing a town PR.

Er, when did we start asking for claims at L-2?

[Persivul]

Persivul why did you target flavor leaf in the neighborhood instead of a claimed PR?

How does a role increase the value of hood discussion?

[Persivul]

Am I dumb in thinking that the questions Tchill is asking have obvious answers?
Am I dumb in thinking that he might be asking questions to fake activity?

No, and no.

[Persivul]

I also still haven't proven my point yet. Because you're belittling me i'm gonna take my time with that. Didn't know a lvl 9001 super sayain mafia lord was in our midst. I'll try to step my game up when i play with you from now on.... Sheesh.

AtE

[Persivul]

So here’s where I stand right now.

I’m gut scum reading Tchill, but I also am gut feeling like I’m misreading him, so the combination of that makes me leaning town on Tchill.

Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't. The guy is scummy af. In fact:
VOTE: Tchill

[Persivul]

I hate this game sometimes. I feel so dumb.

UNVOTE:

The only dumb thing is the unvote.

[Persivul]

Caught up, but I need to do some ISOs and digest all this. Probably won't happen today.

[Persivul]

Yeah...you're criticizing me for taking him from L-2 to L-1 without getting a claim. That's standard procedure on this site. WTF? You get a claim AFTER the L-1.

[Persivul]

I’ve seen claims with an L-1 vote and claims with intent to hammer.

Yep, and you're criticizing me for not waiting for a claim when he was at L-2.

That’s far from the main point I’m making any way and was a response to Jibrils thought process.

Yes, your main point is that I lacked interaction with and analysis on a joke account, yet voted it.

Did all the other 6 people on the wagon have such interaction and analysis? I haven't looked, but I really doubt it, because it's Dr Worm FFS.

[Persivul]

You put him at L-1 and didn’t ask for a claim. I get why it’s not the same as hammering without a claim but you’re still taking the risk of an lolhammer without prompting him. Once again, not the main point. The main point is...

Not to the degree you did, I looked. I think I might have came in a close second because I asked PP if we were lynching him because he was scum or just annoying.

Yep, I noticed that. You apparently didn't like votes on him, you didn't vote him yourself, and he flipped scum.

I still don’t buy this narrative that you are a big supporter of policy lynches and then never really pushed Worm again until the wagon formed.

Here you go:
viewtopic.php?p=10683123#p10683123

You can always reinvent yourself as scum and you always need to be doing stuff that people won't point to recent scum experiences and be like HEY HE DID THAT AS SCUM.

That said I went undefeated as scum in 2018 while only actually trying in one game and pretty much just lurking the rest of them so you can get away with that even.

Rolling scum is like pressing the easy button

It's easy to win as scum if you play scummy when town. People will look at meta, say

he always plays that way,

and let it go. And there seems to be a trend toward that.

People like that should be policy lynched

, vigged, or investigated.

Unfortunately, towns have gotten away from those things.

So, now game developers are making town-sided setups.

Really, towns should just go back to fundamentals, and those fundamentals should be taught in newbies.

A post from January showing that I think people who don't try to obvtown should be PL'd, AND I noted that towns generally don't go for PLs which explains why I don't push for them.

I know you're still not going to buy it because you're stubborn, but I didn't make that post in January so I could use it now.

[Persivul]

Just realized you said on the wagon.

I ISO’d everyone. Yours stuck out the most, because there was distancing both ways.

Interesting. You're arguing that I'm scummy because I bused my partner without making a big push on him - i.e. in a way that

wouldn't

get me much town cred anyway.

What was my scum motivation for that?

I get that if I were on the beginning of the wagon, you could say it was distancing gone bad, and as the wagon took off I couldn't think of a way to reasonably get off it.

Were you the one telling other people their analysis was superficial?

[Persivul]

I guess WOTM wasn't in effect...

Wormie, are you like this at night too?

Slaxx, when you ISO'd me, did you catch the point of this post?

[Persivul]

I guess WOTM wasn't in effect...

Wormie, are you like this at night too?

Slaxx, when you ISO'd me, did you catch the point of this post?

Looked like distancing. I’m open to your explanation.

Also you probably have me pegged as stubborn, but don’t write the discussion off like I can’t change my mind. This needs to happen.

I'm a neighborizer. I can talk to people at night. I asked him if he kept up the persona at night. I was considering targeting him for the hood, but needed some indication that I wouldn't be wasting the shot. He didn't give any such indication. Hopefully it's obvious that if we were scum buddies I wouldn't waste a hood shot on him.

[Persivul]

I would like a Night with my neighbor, please.

Us conversing there, and then talking to Tchill about it afterwards is a great usage, I believe.

@Persovil - you can bring more people in with us, right?

One more, but they won't come in until N3.

[Persivul]

Does that mean you're thinking Tchill for the third?

[Persivul]

This is like bizarro world. Yes, D1 busing happens, but still it used to be a thing that after you flip scum, you take a look at the people NOT on the lynch:

Sad Sheep
Mohab
Chennisden
Jibril - claimed JK
Slaxx

If you accept Jibril's claim, that further narrows it to Sheep, Mohab, Chennisden, Slaxx.

Chennisden comes in and in two posts:

Casts shade at the PR claim not on the lynch
Casts shade at the entire lynch wagon

IOW, everyone not in the group that would typically receive extra pressure and analysis, which includes himself.

VOTE: Chennisden

[Persivul]

Vedith replaces Mohab500. The Night 2 deadline is in 24 hours.

Mixing in static time alerts with countdowns is some sloppy modding. I popped in less than 24 hours ago, saw this, and thought I had plenty of time to decide who to invite to the hood.

[Persivul]

Let’s have her jail Persivul.

I still have a shot and the value of the hood is underwhelming, so yeah, that could prove it without much loss (and maybe I don't even lose it).

[Persivul]

RTFT baby!

[Persivul]

Yeah I'm actually surprised sad sheep wagon shot up instead of Slaxx. If it's only due to the fact SS said the word traitor... I think that's kinda weak.

You're allowed to push slaxx you know.

I really don't get why Flavor town reads you, but I don't see why scum!flav would do that in our PT.

[Persivul]

Start a wagon on me then

You started shading me after soft-defending me once other people mentioned they didn’t like me

The fact you’re saying one wagon is bad and another is better but not driving that wagon is high +scum

^This

[Persivul]

vc

Typically I'd vote at this point just to make the VC preemptively obsolete, but...mod's pretty pissed at me already!

[Persivul]

Jailkept Mr Werebeast.

Wait who's this?

Jibril refuses to use actual player names because that would, you know...make him understandable or something.

[Persivul]

you know what, after some thought i just fail to see how jib is town. at first i thought that claim was likely, now she said she jailed me last night yet someone committed a kill. no other thoughts today than the speed sheeping.

I generally buy the claim, and I've town read what little content Jibril has put up. But, I'm trying to see how town JK fits with watcher and a backup (someone suggested scum watcher, but scum watcher/town backup doesn't make sense to me). Watchers could just keep watching the JK and eventually catch a scum. That could be countered with ninja, but I think town JK would be dead already if scum had a ninja. Scum JK OTOH is basically a RB with a townier name, and has the aforementioned watcher factor to use as an excuse for still being alive. PT cop may have been given as a means to catch scum JK.

[Persivul]

Vedith replaces Mohab500. The Night 2 deadline is in 24 hours.

Mixing in static time alerts with countdowns is some sloppy modding. I popped in less than 24 hours ago, saw this, and thought I had plenty of time to decide who to invite to the hood.

I apologized to mod by PM, but I feel that private apologies aren't good enough for public charges, so:

Sorry again mod! Persivul admits he was wrong.

[Persivul]

Then you're not the lynch today on that alone.
Doesn't clear you but there was a night kill and the wagon on you is hard.

I'm thinking to lynch FL or Slaxx depending on what they add to their vote reason.

Out of those two I'd suggest slaxx...you know, the one who DIDN'T lead a scum lynch on D1.

[Persivul]

I was toxic back then.

Me too.

I'm reformed \o/

I'm not, but I'm working on it!

[Persivul]

I saw the lead on Scum lynch.
You mean the one that took off directly after he voted?
Where Scum can't have a chance to change their mind?

Yeah that one.

Fair point. IIRC in a recent scum game one of my buddies got caught that way on the other. It wasn't at all intentional, just distancing gone bad.

[Persivul]

Exactly.
How much are you and FL discussing in the hood? Think you can get a solid read on Him?

We didn't say much. I pressed him on Tchill at first. His town read on T is mostly feels based on experience. I asked him about other people and he basically said his thoughts were in the main thread.

But you should know some context: we recently were a scum team in a game with Rooms. In that game he actively used the rooms to pocket/manipulate people, and I got no feel of that in our room. Part of why I invited him was to see if he'd try to work me. OTOH, he might have realized I'd be watching for that.

[Persivul]

Jailkept Mr Werebeast.

Are you saying you jail kept sheep

you know what, after some thought i just fail to see how jib is town. at first i thought that claim was likely, now she said she jailed me last night yet someone committed a kill. no other thoughts today than the speed sheeping.

I generally buy the claim, and I've town read what little content Jibril has put up. But, I'm trying to see how town JK fits with watcher and a backup (someone suggested scum watcher, but scum watcher/town backup doesn't make sense to me). Watchers could just keep watching the JK and eventually catch a scum. That could be countered with ninja, but I think town JK would be dead already if scum had a ninja. Scum JK OTOH is basically a RB with a townier name, and has the aforementioned watcher factor to use as an excuse for still being alive. PT cop may have been given as a means to catch scum JK.

I have no idea what really any of these roles do. So I’m just gonna let you all go in circles over that.
Reading this just makes my head spin. I’m sure once I’m more familiar with all these roles I can participate in this kinda talk but right now it’s a solid nah

So with all the content in this game that you

could

comment on, you're popping in to mention the stuff you

can't

comment on.

VOTE: Flippy

[Persivul]

What about “this”

Uh, that indicates I agree with what I'm pointing to. I'm giving T a pass today because Flav has more experience with him and town reads him, and so far I mostly town read Flav (but I still don't get him telling Enter to investigate NM).

[Persivul]

Wasn’t sure if that was you agreeing or pointing out to everyone that it was scummy & wanted your thought process

Did you notice that, two posts prior to that one 1055, I made the exact same point (albeit in fewer words)?

I'm not trying to be rude with that - I'm wondering if you're reading for actual content, or just trying to pick out a post here and there to question and appear active.

p-edit: that helps that you said that before I posted this.

[Persivul]

I don’t even know who he targeted.

We were talking about it, I wanted Tchill, but he didn’t. I don’t know who he ended up going.

No one last night. I saw mod's 24 hour comment and mistakenly thought I had until this morning to decide.

For others - yes, Flavor wanted Tchill, but I find T scummy and thought he had a high chance of being lynched today, which would waste my last shot.

I can do an invite tonight, which works out if we want to test the JK.

[Persivul]

How does inviting the jk too the room test it? Would it just be because you can talk to them in a PT?

Idea was to test the JK by having him jail me. Then I post the invitation and we see if it goes through. If not, JK is legit (or at least a RB).

[Persivul]

Then I post the invitation and we see if it goes through.

Inviting someone other than the JK of course.

[Persivul]

What is the main purpose of the room?

Most likely to cause wifomy goodness with the PT cop. Otherwise, invitational hoods don't do much for me.

Pre-assigned hoods with several players are more useful because there's usually one scum in them.

[Persivul]

Why would it

clear

him? JK doesn't necessarily mean town.

[Persivul]

Riiiigghtt

Does that mean you're skeptical of the target claim? If so, why?

[Persivul]

I've had the flu the last couple days. Will catch up when I can.

[Persivul]

1/5 of my posts are saying you’re a scumread. Wow.

Tunneling is focusing solely on one player and not pressing other players. I’ve pressed FL, Pers, You, and to a lesser extent Jib, TChill, Vedith, and Enter. I’ve engaged significantly with about half the playerlist.

Where are you on sad sheep now? (Apologies if you've already spelled it out.)

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

Do something to change that.

See this is the part that I have no interest in!

Ok.

VOTE: Vedith

VOTE: vedith

Why don't you case yourself on why YOU'RE town silly vedith?

VOTE: vedith

These chill and sad sheep votes are seriously bad.

[Persivul]

The game has slowed down which is of course bad in some ways, but when you see the way people want wagons to take off, slow can be a good thing too.

[Persivul]

Everyone has ignored my back and forth with SS

i dont even know why people keep thinking youre not scum candidate #1
no matter what, no one wants to work with me to lynch you

Maybe because slaxx has been pressuring multiple people, interacting with them and adjusting reads accordingly, and appears to be trying to figure out the game.

[Persivul]

Nips and FL as Scum?
PP as the back up.

if this is true....then we lose

Why? Neither of them are obvtown.

[Persivul]

pers & emp:
-super lurking with one stating sickness & the other with constant stalling

Life happens. That's part of why we have long phases.

[Persivul]

Does anyone have a case against sheep? Or are we just pointing things out that we find scummy from recent post?

Cos so far I haven’t gotten that big of scum vibes from him. I do have wary vibes which I’ve gotten from town before due to play styles.

That's been my feeling as well. I disagree with a lot of what he posts, but really I don't see a scum agenda in it.

[Persivul]

Anyone have time to do an unofficial VC? Mod's on VLA...

[Persivul]

Slaxx and Jibril as Scum?
PP flipping watcher there basically confirms it as Scum JK for me.

VOTE: Jibril

What's your reasoning on scum JK?

Now we're sure we had a town watcher. We also had a backup, which means watcher was almost guaranteed to go deep into the game. If town JK claims, watcher watches JK, scum can't kill JK. But, scum would likely have ninja or something to balance that. So, why is JK still alive?

Is that it, or do you have a different reason?

[Persivul]

I think Slaxx is Scum
First for 1484 looks to be trying to shift blame pre flip to me.
The main reason is from the game that he modded where i was pocketed from guilty lion (he was scum) from his town read on me for some shit and I think he wanted to try and do the same with me here.

Those are really weak.

Read slaxx v. me earlier. At first I was concerned he might be scum just looking for a push, but he listened to my responses and adapted. I'm not seeing a scum agenda there, rather one of the people more interested in solving the game.

[Persivul]

If Chilly is Scum at least we know he distanced from his partner so there's that.

How about jibril/chill? Believable as scum theater?

[Persivul]

I'm the only player she's pushed. Which means I'm really the only player she's interacted with.

Yeah, I've noticed that.

[Persivul]

Which... Makes me scum? That's a little ridiculous. I don't remember jibril pushing me much at all until enter did. That's the only play I remember from jibril...

LOL - telltale heart? No, I meant it makes jibril sus. Make a claim D1, tunnel one person and cruise for rest of game.

What's your thoughts on FL and flippnips?

FL makes me nervous, but in an ambiguous way. Flippy looks scummy.

[Persivul]

Chill, have you ever caught scum FL?

If so, can you link to the game? I'd like to see it.

If not...why are you so confident he's town?

[Persivul]

I can't remember. I'd say 70 percent of the time I play on this website he's in my game though. I'm sure I have at least once but I'm not gonna go through and link a game. I've actually never linked a previous game of mine or read a previous game of someone else's.

I'd rather not say why I tr him until someone decides they want to declare a SR on him.

In my last game with him he said that he hadn't lost a scum game or been lynched as scum in 2 years. Considering that I doubt your read on him (or anyone's) is as good as you think it is. That line is part of why I invited him to the hood, but he hasn't been at all transparent there.

[Persivul]

I guess a ninja would balance the watcher roles out?
Or at least x shots.

Let me think

Yes, but if there's ninja and a town JK, JK would be dead (unless chill's the ninja).

[Persivul]

Well then that doesn't make too much sense.

Tchill...it’s Jailkeeper...it’s a Doctor/roleblock hybrid. You can still be targeted.

Rather, jibril says it's jailkeeper. It could be Alien, but he claimed JK because that sounds townier.

[Persivul]

mod, can I copy and paste a post of my own from the hood thread?

I made a case there on flippy which I'd rather not have to re-do.

[Persivul]

One of you/jibril plus flippy.

[Persivul]

If everyone is gonna throw flippy in a pool why aren't we advocating for his lynch instead of jibril?

See above - I will be putting it out there. However, an advantage of a jibril lynch would be that it would help to sort you. I've looked back at him and that doesn't look like scum theater, so if he flips red, you're probably clear.

[Persivul]

Interestingly we'd both like to see you flipped.

[Persivul]

Like town are so bad here that instead of just telling ppl TO STOP MASS CLAIMING DAY ONE they'd rather give more roles out. Roles do not fix inherently terrible town habits. Rant over.

You're confusing me...I'm beginning to like you...

[Persivul]

One of jib or pers. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem. It's tough to keep things straight when you're just making them up.

[Persivul]

Yeah, there's been too much rambling today, not enough voting.
VOTE: Tchill

[Persivul]

VOTE: Flips

Ooh, me likey that one too, but let's see where the wagonz go.

[Persivul]

Pers and FL in small words why are we not lynching Jibril?

Maybe we will be. There are still people who need to vote. Having some choices and seeing how votes fall and move has got to be better than a lynch whipping up out of nowhere like we've been seeing.

[Persivul]

Wait, I'll get TownFace going forward? \o/

Prolly only until he thinks you're scum.

[Persivul]

Pers and FL in small words why are we not lynching Jibril?

Do you have a case on jibril other than setup spec?

[Persivul]

Actually, that’s a point towards JibrilTown. Scum knew town had a Watcher.

Yes, but with both a watcher and a backup, you'd think scum would have a ninja, or a JOAT with a ninja shot. That jibril is still alive means:
- they don't have that - so what do they have that balances? RB?
- they have that, but it's Tchill and he's been jailed
- Jibril is scum JK/alien who's parked on chill so as not to give partial clears

[Persivul]

VOTE: Flippy

All this content to comment on in his catch up, and all he has is some safe questions on mechanics.

[Persivul]

Wow, WTF happened? You guys need some other hobbies.

[Persivul]

Actually he said vedith/3 or 4 people, so it makes sense that his vote is on vedith.

I skimmed yesterday's 10 pages or so of activity and the thing that stood out the most is that flavor finally looks town. He could easily have made a case to park on jibril or flippy and gotten a lynch on one of them, but he was clearly trying to solve the game. Since vedith is in several of his pairings, I'm going to take a closer look on him when I get some time. Unfortunately he's one of those players who plays his cards pretty close to the vest.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Vedith

Get me out of this game.
FL if you're town here I won't be playing with you ever again.

Where did this come from?

Page 2 of your ISO is you pushing Flavor and insisting that people vote between you and flavor. You were cocky/snarky about the push, saying he was panicking and you had him backed into a corner.

Then he votes you and gets one follower, and you self vote? That doesn't seem like reasonable town behavior from someone who

wants

a 1v1 with flavor.

[Persivul]

UNOFFICIAL VC

Vedith: Flavor, Jibril, Vedith

L-1

Jibril: Chill, Slax

L-2

Flippy: Pers

Not voting: Flippy

Let me know if something's wrong.

[Persivul]

Per do me a favor and vote jibril so they can both be at L-1. I'd like to see what flavor does.

Actually I was thinking of doing that to see if Flippy would actually make a meaningful decision in this game.

Yeah, I see your point on Flavor, would show if 2025 & 2026 are legit.

p-edit: Hey, Flippy did a thing!

[Persivul]

Yeah, Jib isn’t even L-1

He is now.

[Persivul]

I just wanted a vc before I Voted

Yeah, I saw that and mod's got some personal stuff going on, so I made one.

[Persivul]

Then why haven't you simply requested replacement?

[Persivul]

WTF, Vedith was at L-1 because both Jibril and Vedith were on the wagon. I seriously doubt they're a team. If Jibril flips red, Vedith's green.

[Persivul]

You're not considering the timing. Jibril only had two votes. There was time to try pushing someone else rather than busing (and with a self vote).

[Persivul]

Considering that Flavor had you in every one of his recent scum pairings, I'm thinking you should be doing that yourself.

[Persivul]

FL had me and Jibril as Scum. If I was Scum not only is FL my mis Lynch today but I also don't try to get voted over Jibril.

Now, why are you town?

He also had you and flippy as scum, both in thread yesterday and in the hood last night.

[Persivul]

I think that I was right on Persivul initially.

I think mafia got informed of the PT cop and I think the Neighborizer was used in conjunction with the informed.

How would you use that to advantage?

[Persivul]

I posted this in the hood N2:

Flippy has 46 posts.

The first 10 are fluff. Needs prodded.

359 - comes in after the jibril pressure ahs already dissipated to announce he's not interested in jibril: "I’ll be reading the game in the morning but I read some recent stuff cos I was curious. don’t want to Lynch jibril rn cos I always find her play style to be scummy & have been wrong. Didn’t think that the claim was necessary whatsoever." Contradicts himself in saying that jibril looks scummy, but claim wasn't necessary.

399 - hedges on worm. "I have a small scumlean on worm & jibril but I just have a distrust for personas. Although they can be pretty entertaining. That’s why I was wanting to keep Big Worm." Scumlean on jibril increasing.

409 - excuses for no reads, now jibril is a mislynch candidate.

570 - Has gone from a "small scumlean" on worm to "How close to a hammer I wanna hammer," does indeed hammer. Yes, he gets some cred for being on the scum lynch, but come on - that could easily be a bus. There's no progression warranting that excitement for the lynch, looks like a buddy trying to pretend worm was a strong scum read in order to at least get some cred out of the lynch.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Emperor FlippyNips

Vedith and TChill aren’t scum together. Vedith was active elsewhere and they could have hammered.

UNVOTE:

Alright I have to work and can’t babysit the thread for quickhammers.

Did it cross your mind that scum saw your naked vote and knew what you were up to?

[Persivul]

If we hit town again this lynch scum wins right?

You have almost 400 posts on this site and I’m supposed to think you don’t know how lylo works

Playing dumb about mechanics is part of his scum meta. Flavor pointed it out to me here:

viewtopic.php?p=10617429#p10617429

[Persivul]

Scum me will never, never never put myself as a mis lynch over a town.

You're claiming an illegal trust tell. Knock it off.

[Persivul]

If you're trying to call Scum here though Chilly, you will be Scum for me.
Town do not ever call me Scum here even more so

you all know my play

as town and Scum.

Scum me will never, never never put myself as a mis lynch over a town.

It was based on meta.

Are you now acknowledging that we can't be sure from your self vote and meta that you're town, and the never never never was hyperbole?

[Persivul]

Pers I want your top 2 Scum reads.

I'll give you a bonus:

Flippy>Tchill>Vedith

[Persivul]

Then vote Flippy

Gladly. He's been scummy the entire game, he still doesn't have a read, and as noted he's playing dumb on mechanics and he's done that before as scum. This should have been lynched sooner.
VOTE: Flippy

[Persivul]

Lynch flips then tomorrow Chilly.

Agreed.

[Persivul]

FYI I PM'd nsg, it will be a little while until she can do a flip.

[Persivul]

I have thoughts...

I will keep most of them to myself.

I won't! I have some thank yous to give out:

Thanks to Enter and NM for claiming without reason. That's two games I've played with Enter in which he was town PR and couldn't keep it to himself.

Thanks to Jibril for fake claiming without reason. In some ways this made our job harder. Since you were parked on Tchill, I had to do the kills, which meant I couldn't neighborize and needed excuses. That line of analysis was mentioned a few times but never gained traction. But in other ways, it made our job easier. Penguin was parked on you, so we were free to kill other wise. And, lies usually catch up and make for an easier mislynch.

Sorry if that's a bit harsh, but I'd really like to see towns improve. They can improve by:

- Not claiming unnecessarily.
- Not fake claiming.

This stuff used to be common wisdom on the site.

Winning town mafia generally isn't a sexy game of gambits. It's following the conventional wisdom and doing things by the book. Don't lie. Obvtown yourself so scum can be caught through PoE. Do some VCA and NKA.

If that's gotten boring and you need gambits to be entertained - take a break and come back in six months. The tried and true methods will be fun again.

A few other notes:

Good setup. At first I thought it was another town-sided setup, but that turned out to be Jibril's fake claim.

Tchill - nice playing with you. Personally I thought you were scummy af D1 and D2, then smooth as silk for the rest of the game. Reminds me of something I read in a mastina article - put more weight on early actions, because scum can adapt and play better as the game progresses and they see the dynamics.

Dr Worm - I think you're hilarious, but that type of humor is best in small doses. I suggest you take a break from that account for a few months then come back for a game or two.

[Persivul]

I knew something was off the second Vedith like spewed town to me. I shouldn’t have hammered Jibril.

I KNEW she was town, and I doubted it for like a second.

Hopefully our taunting you had an influence.

[Persivul]

Thanks for the compliment in the mod thread mastina. May not agree with the conversation we had on setup but ik you're a well known player here and always respect your opinion.

Yeah, towns would do a lot better if they'd go and read her primers.

[Persivul]

No need for all the claims d1. No need for a fake jail keeper gambit. Those 2 things hurt town more than anything imo.

Yep.

[Persivul]

At one point he stated scum tchill always gets in an argument with him. Simply because of that statement I avoided an argument this game.

LOL yeah we didn't discuss that in PT but I noticed that line too and figured you were using it to advantage.

[Persivul]

I touched on issues town has on this site in the scum thread.

It's getting out of control. It'll never be fixed due to ego unless site wide trends begin to punish those that play a certain way. Which will probably never happen.

I understand mods are TRYING to fix it with giving town more power...

That's not the answer for players that refuse to play as town In a consistently positive way that is beneficial for the GROUP opposed to the individual "hero".

Can't be said enough.

[Persivul]

I never claimed cop btw

No, but you claimed a PR, and it got you killed.

[Persivul]

just so you know, had you gone ahead and claimed goon cop you would have confscummed yourself – goon cop is not a whitelisted role for normal games.

Actually it's doubtful anyone would have noticed.

[Persivul]

BTW at one point I almost did scum slip. I almost said that we know there's a watcher because of the Informed. Fortunately I went to the thread flip to double check the wording, and saw that it was redacted.

[Persivul]

Yeah I actually really liked the setup idea NSG. Neighborizer and PT cop was cool.

Only thing I would change would be that the informed should have given the PT cop instead of watcher. That could have led to some interesting strategy with the neighborizer. In the end I don't think scum neighborizer can really frame anyone, but still it would be interesting.

[Persivul]

If anyone wants to play again, I'm currently in queue for this game:
viewtopic.php?p=10840699#p10840699

Five slots left.

[Persivul]

i really dont like that people didnt pursue the "pers targeted chill but chill got nothing"...1 of them shouldve been lynched for that ordeal...

Yes, it should have been discussed further. But in the end, "scum may have a RB" is going to prevail.