Starcraft Mafia: Legacy of the Void [Game Over]

[Hydra TBD]

Volxen wagon is boring, he's lynchbait every game d1 regardless of wagon or no wagon and he'll obvtown eventually if he's town

also alchemist is town and this is a reasonably confident meta read.

Chenn still >rand scum but if his meta is like volxen and I'm just not too familiar with it then that makes him a less interesting lynch too

- TBD

[RCEnigma]

Hey shiro.

[Powerpuff Girls]

Volxen wagon is boring, he's lynchbait every game d1 regardless of wagon or no wagon and he'll obvtown eventually if he's town

also alchemist is town and this is a reasonably confident meta read.

Nope, there's

no guarantee

he'll obvtown "eventually" if town - unless he's explicitly too busy to read the game and post here, he

can

obvtown as town right now, and it's in town's best interest to get him to do that ASAP. It's not like his lack of activity is a sole reason for the wagon, either, whatever content he does have is scummy.

Instead of calling the wagon 'boring', address why my concerns on the slot are invalid, and tell me a better vote. I see you're voting Shiro, whose sparse ISO is uninteresting to me. Otherwise, join the Volxwagon and let's get the slot lynched if it is indeed scum.

In my last game with Alchemist, he was called hard-town by meta by people who played with him, allowing him to coast to a win as scum. (SC2)
Can you detail the meta read on him, i.e. what from his meta makes him town?

I totally understand your concern, except this is more Volxen's game and I'm just tagging along. I planned to share my updated reads with Volxen, but I'll also post them here so you can get my thoughts directly from me.

I'm not sure where you're getting your meta on me from, but of all completed games I've participated in, only one was scum.

I'll be happy if you get into the game instead of just "tagging along".
"Updated" reads - implies you had early reads, too? Please do share your past reads too and what reads updated, it'll help me townread you.
I wasn't saying it's your scum meta - more like you're not in your town meta.

-Bubbles

[Almost50]

Did I say it was a town "read"??

Town read usually is stronger than Town lean for me, and the latter could be a general feeling about the tone with nothing specific.

What don't you like about him though?

I didn't mean to misconstrue the strength of your reads, and I apologize for the mishap.

Could you point me to a post or two that give you that feeling or demonstrate a tone you're town reading? I'll go through why I think their scum after catching up

Generally speaking Volxen feels engaged and is responding to posts made about or directed at him, as opposed to floating and avoiding people. He may not have shown his aggressive side yet (not sure I'd even call it "aggressive" to begin with) but he's doing alright so far, I think.

Now if I was a day vig and the day was ending in 24 hours I'd be shooting between Shiro & Chennisden right now. Iconeum is also a scum lean but not as string. (That's a subtle invitation for scum to shoot me tonight, btw)

[Powerpuff Girls]

Not Voting (7): Vedith(108), Yahmose(1), Volxen MJL Combo Pack(13), Almost50(42), Shadowlesscloud(38), chennisden(16), Cerberus v666(8)

Please cast your vote on Volxen, or

somewhere

at least. The game's stagnant, and we need wagons going.

Almost50, how is Volxen doing alright so far? He has little actual content apart from a few weak townreads and a push he's taken back. And if you're scumreading Shiro/Chen/Ico, why aren't you voting for any of them?

-Bubbles

[Powerpuff Girls]

No, not really.

Why not? I think he's been pretty fluffy

[/quote]

- Blossom

[Iconeum]

well, you did fp me :p

what does fp mean?

fasposted

Hi, Bubbles is suspicious of Volxen and thinks Liger may be town. I would prefer HER to give her reasons why.

This is where my gut is at rn, too

In 584 you wanna lynch the BP claim. From this point, there is zero involvement on your part to actually push this. Moreso, you never vote there anyway.

In 639 you give a number of scumreads in shiro, volxen/mj, Hydra TBD. And end up voting for one of them, never explaining a single one of these reads.

642 feels a lot like trying to buddy A50. Why specifically ask this to him, and not anyone or everyone else?

663 is my biggest issue. A50 replies, and says he has different reads. But instead of asking for information about the slot urap is voting, he wants to know why A50 townreads

the other one.

Feels fake.

HOWEVER, 707 followed by 710 are posts I can relate to, and feel town. Specifically the fact that the hydra only posts after being called out is a red flag, and reminds me of another game I played with a scum!MJL.

VOTE: Volxen/MJL

[Powerpuff Girls]

By the way, my dear Bubbles, I get your concern on Alchemist, but I'm absolutely confident on my ability to read Alchemist, so you won't have to worry about him at all. That goes for everyone else concerned about Alch: I will be the one who notices if he's scum in this game. Leave that to me, your Powerpuff leader!

- Blossom

[Hydra TBD]

Caught up now

Town: Alchemist, Liger, RCEnigma, Vedith, Powerpuffs

Scum: Chennisden, Shadowless, Shiro

- Hydra

No catchup posts + easy scum reads is =/

I don't typically make catch up posts. A readslist is usually a good enough summary, and I am always willing to elaborate if prompted.

- Hydra

[Iconeum]

Caught up now

Town: Alchemist, Liger, RCEnigma, Vedith, Powerpuffs

Scum: Chennisden, Shadowless, Shiro

- Hydra

No catchup posts + easy scum reads is =/

I don't typically make catch up posts. A readslist is usually a good enough summary, and I am always willing to elaborate if prompted.

- Hydra

What is your actual read on Volxen hydra, Hydra? Saying he'll obvtown eventually implies you are not townreading there

What about the other players?

[Iconeum]

And what are your thoughts on the BP claim?

[Hydra TBD]

Instead of calling the wagon 'boring', address why my concerns on the slot are invalid, and tell me a better vote.

My (concise) concerns with

Volxen MJL Combo Pack

:

1.

Lack of any real scumhunting

: The only real push the slot made was a very specific one directed at Liger_Zero, and it was almost purely focused on Liger_Zero's A50 read - with an unvote right after Liger_Zero rebuts it. The progression here doesn't look genuine, in the sense of trying to sort out Liger's slot as a whole. Apart from this, they have *no* other scumread they're pushing. Which they make up with three townreads (of which only one is... "strong") [492].

I'm not TBD, but in my experience, volxen making one push is not necessarily scum indicative at this point.

I don't really have any comments on your other two points. MJL beetlejuicing was not a good look, but I actually liked volxen's response (644) in our exchange. It shows an attempt to get behind Liger's thought process, so I'm leaning town here.

I see you're voting Shiro, whose sparse ISO is uninteresting to me.

Yes, their ISO is sparse, but there is a decent case on them in 611 that has largely gone unnoticed. Sparse =/= worth pressuring

- Hydra

[Hydra TBD]

What is your actual read on Volxen hydra, Hydra? Saying he'll obvtown eventually implies you are not townreading there

What about the other players?

I don't know if volxen will obvtown. TBD may have more experience with him and can read him as the game progresses.

Which other players?

And what are your thoughts on the BP claim?

I still think the slot is scummy. I dislike how he seems to have disappeared since his claim.

I don't want to read too much into the role itself, since in the last two SC games, the bp role has been both town and scum. I would rather just read the slot based on their play. I'm against trying to resolve his slot through night actions, since confirming his role won't confirm his alignment anyhow.

- Hydra

[Hydra TBD]

Nope, there's

no guarantee

he'll obvtown "eventually" if town - unless he's explicitly too busy to read the game and post here, he

can

obvtown as town right now, and it's in town's best interest to get him to do that ASAP. It's not like his lack of activity is a sole reason for the wagon, either, whatever content he does have is scummy.

Instead of calling the wagon 'boring', address why my concerns on the slot are invalid, and tell me a better vote. I see you're voting Shiro, whose sparse ISO is uninteresting to me. Otherwise, join the Volxwagon and let's get the slot lynched if it is indeed scum.

*shrug* I don't know MJL's meta but I know I lazypost when I hydra so I don't really agree with activity telling them

Volxen is consistently objectively scummy on d1 as both alignments, doesn't obvtown in response to people voting him, and very often gets mislynched d1

I don't know how to read d1 volxen, I would rather lynch someone below null

Why is Shiro uninteresting to you?

In my last game with Alchemist, he was called hard-town by meta by people who played with him, allowing him to coast to a win as scum. (SC2)
Can you detail the meta read on him, i.e. what from his meta makes him town?

I think alchemist can be read by how coherent/sensible his posts are and whether he's actively scummy or not and in this game he "lacks scum" to me

- TBD

[Powerpuff Girls]

Making one push isn't scum-indicative by itself; I've commented on why the push itself didn't seem towny and others have as well.
Volxen's response in 644 wasn't towny by any means - he simply backed down from the push when people pointed out why it's bad. That doesn't deserve any town points at all.

The 611 Shiro case is meh to me. Shiro's post is very likely his playstyle (phrases like "this is scum", "beyond awful", etc the certainty) and I don't think it was blatantly wrong of him to say that Liger "backed away" by stating to ignore FL (refer 328).

"Doesn't obvtown in response to votes" meh, no reason to give them a free pass if scum. At the very minimum, I expect he should post actively and involve himself. Also remember that he shares the slot with MJL.

In any case, Volxen is totally worth pressuring IMO. Join me there?

Shiro is uninteresting to me because I have 0 prior experience with the slot, their ISO has nearly nothing of interest to me(apart from a bad Liger vote). I've explained above why I think the case on them is bad. I don't think wagoning Shiro is a bad idea, ATM I'm more interested in getting Volxen+MJL to post more.

-Bubbles

[Powerpuff Girls]

I think alchemist can be read by how coherent/sensible his posts are and whether he's actively scummy or not and in this game he "lacks scum" to me

Check out his ISO in Starcraft 2. I think he was pretty coherent there, and not actively scummy - can you show me the distinction between his posts there versus in this game?

-Bubbles

[Almost50]

And if you're scumreading Shiro/Chen/Ico, why aren't you voting for any of them?

Because the game hasn't shaped up enough yet for me to cast a vote and be able to support it with an argument I suppose.

[Hydra TBD]

Making one push isn't scum-indicative by itself; I've commented on why the push itself didn't seem towny and others have as well.
Volxen's response in 644 wasn't towny by any means - he simply backed down from the push when people pointed out why it's bad. That doesn't deserve any town points at all.

Why was the push scummy as opposed to a bad push by town?

The 611 Shiro case is meh to me. Shiro's post is very likely his playstyle (phrases like "this is scum", "beyond awful", etc the certainty) and I don't think it was blatantly wrong of him to say that Liger "backed away" by stating to ignore FL (refer 328).

This can be quickly crosschecked.

Shiro only has one recently completed game. Here are some early, non-random votes from their recent (town)game:

Spoiler:

Subject: Mini 2064 - Giffy-Q (Game Over!)

Actually

Vote:RC Enigma

His lines about the neighborhoods rub me the wrong way.

Subject: Mini 2064 - Giffy-Q (Game Over!)

OK Prince and chara are town, good to know.

I will join the lurker wagon. It has merit

Vote:Blackjack

Subject: Mini 2064 - Giffy-Q (Game Over!)

Why yes, yes I can prince

Vote;RCE

I still think the lurker has a good chance of being scum though.

I don't see the same confidence/certainty here, so it's jumping the gun to attribute this to playstyle.

- Hydra

[Powerpuff Girls]

@A50: It's reasonable to have a vote even if not with a strong argument supporting it, no? Multiple players echoing this sentiment won't help get out of the stagnation. And why won't you answer the earlier question re: Volxen?

@Hydra: Town Volxen is broad and analytical. Not only was it a bad push, it was a very directed push and Volxen didn't analyze Liger's posts apart from Liger's A50 vote. It looks like scum trying to come up with something and pushing that, as opposed to genuine thought.

As to Shiro, different contexts in the game you linked - he was voting a lurker. Besides, his early townreads have that confidence ("OK Prince and chara are town"). It's likelier that Shiro early-declares slots scum/town (town in that game, scum this game), and I do not see why it's scum-indicative for him here.

-Bubbles

[Hydra TBD]

I think alchemist can be read by how coherent/sensible his posts are and whether he's actively scummy or not and in this game he "lacks scum" to me

Check out his ISO in Starcraft 2. I think he was pretty coherent there, and not actively scummy - can you show me the distinction between his posts there versus in this game?

-Bubbles

Yeah I really don't care enough about this game to go read 150 pages of cold meta, "sensible" or "not sensible" requires understanding the gamestate and not just reading an iso, my reads are much better in games that I'm actually in or at least spectating, and I wouldn't be super interested in explaining specific things that I think are meta tells anyway because I also want to win games other than this one, so, basically, no.

I've played with scum alchemist and he was really scummy, his reads just didn't make sense, whereas in this game he's often posted what I was thinking which implies an uninformed perspective, etc.

- TBD

[Almost50]

And why won't you answer the earlier question re: Volxen?

What do you want me to say? It looks like he's getting lynched anyway and I have no argument against it either. I am just not voting him because I decided my top 3 scum reads are Chenni/Shiro/Ico and none of them starts with a V.

[Iconeum]

A50, you went from 'I don't know if this kind of activity from ICO is town or scum',

to

'I slightly scumread ICO'

to

'he's in my top 3 scum'

Can you explain what upgraded the read every time?

[Powerpuff Girls]

@A50: Why you think he's been "alright" so far, why he isn't in your top three scumreads (and hence undeserving of a vote), why my arguments aren't convincing enough, etc etc.


@TBD: His ISO was pretty bare. Your general meta of "scum Alch is not sensible, and is blatantly scummy" is incorrect from an objective standpoint, as evidenced by StarCraft 2, and is a bad reason to townread him rn IMO. As for you not being interested in explaining "specific meta tells" - noted.

-Bubbles

[Almost50]

A50, you went from 'I don't know if this kind of activity from ICO is town or scum',

to

'I slightly scumread ICO'

to

'he's in my top 3 scum'

Can you explain what upgraded the read every time?

I'm not sure if I did sayb it in public but I was SRing from before that and the post you're referring to was actually expressing some doubt in my read on you, hence you were always my 3rd SR.

[Almost50]

@A50: Why you think he's been "alright" so far, why he isn't in your top three scumreads (and hence undeserving of a vote), why my arguments aren't convincing enough, etc etc.

He's being voted by the entire players list. Who would be his scum buddies if he flips red?