Open 757: Panic Room!

[Flubbernugget]

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Why do you care about a deepwolf at this stage? This seems irrelevant to talk about considering the current game state.

This is extremely important as the setup is incredibly swingy based on who is and isn't sheltered, and this is probably the easiest way for scum to get in the hood. But it's precisely easiest for scum because it's the read town is most likely to get wrong.

[Flubbernugget]

So basically I think there's a massive gamble in this setup I didn't initially realize

[Jingle]

Vote Count 1.6

Flubbernugget (4): fumiki, TemporalLich, rosterfoster, High Risk Gamble
TemporalLich (3): ejjinami, Flubbernugget, maadneet
awestfie (1): ofrhz
Eyes without a face (1): Saudade
madneet (0):
fumuki (0):
rosterfoster (0):
ofrhz (0):
ejjinami (0):
High Risk Gamble (0):
Saudade (0):

Not Voting (2): awestfie, Eyes without a face

Deadline: Day 1 will end in (expired on 2019-05-02 18:00:00)

IMPORTANT NOTES:

-

ejjinami is V/LA until 4/23.

[awestfie]

About a deepwolf is because [Maad, Eyes, TL] regardless of alignment are easy reads that anyone can hide behind. For a more original, creative and alignment indicative read, you need to make players say their most deep and controversial suspicious in my opinion.

That's not true at all. You don't need original and creative reads to find scum. Alignment indicative, yes, but that doesn't change my point that there shouldn't be deepwolf discussion this early in a game.

Also awe what`s up with coming to the thread just right after Jingle said he would prod you? That`s a 1 minute difference.

Coincidence. I had a busy weekend because of Easter. Do you think this alignment indicative in any way?

Why do you care about a deepwolf at this stage? This seems irrelevant to talk about considering the current game state.

This is extremely important as the setup is incredibly swingy based on who is and isn't sheltered, and this is probably the easiest way for scum to get in the hood. But it's precisely easiest for scum because it's the read town is most likely to get wrong.

It's not as important as you think. The setup is swingy, but having a deepwolf discussion during day 1 where most of the players haven't put in much effort is a waste of time. Focusing on the current game and trying to find scum there is more important than finding scum who is playing for the late game.

[Fumuki]

I think I`m off to do something else and probably not coming tomorrow

If someone hops off Flubb wagon I hope there is a good reason and an even better wagon

[Flubbernugget]

viewtopic.php?t=78917&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Theres a really contrived push from me onto chara here to eat up space

I checked this out a bit

can`t say I checked it too carefully but I feel that what was happening between you vs chara was really different.

You were mafia and were considering voting between Chara (town) and Succint (mafia), then I think you basically got in the 1v1 with Chara because that way you would have an excuse to go there instead of going to your scumbuddy in a setup that didn`t favor bussing.

There is really nothing to do with this game, where I was saying that Roster/Maad was a team and you were focused in TL. I don`t think a 1v1 here would have been that beneficial to you, and you didn`t even have much time to start it.

For context, Succinct was more of a lolwagon that didn't pick up until a replacement cracked the game. Chara was a terrible pick for a cw, but a good one for mucking with the gamestate.

[Fumuki]

No, discussing deepwolves is important because not only it`s the most alignment indicative reads, it`s also the most probably way scum win this.

If we lynch the bomb and there is no scum in the neighbour, it`s over.

We`ve 2 masons essentially in the game also.

As long as scum isn`t in the hood, and we have at least 4 town in the hood, we can even stop recruiting and mechanically solve this maybe.

[Fumuki]

A ratio of 4:1 in the hood, after a bomb lynch makes it a auto town win.

Deepwolves are our utmost concern.

[Fumuki]

Actually, a ratio of 3:1 in the hood when the bomb is lynched, as long as none of the masons died, also is an auto town win.

[Fumuki]

@Flubb why did you say that Ejji vote on you was dumb in early game?

[awestfie]

No, discussing deepwolves is important because not only it`s the most alignment indicative reads, it`s also the most probably way scum win this.

We can agree to disagree, but I think it's a waste of time. I think the current game state is more important than focusing on something we'll have to only worry about in the late game. Besides, I believe that the goons are the only ones playing to deepwolf here. The bomb's goal should be to stay as null as possible in the off-chance that their partners get in the neighborhood.

If we lynch the bomb and there is no scum in the neighbour, it`s over.

We`ve 2 masons essentially in the game also.

As long as scum isn`t in the hood, and we have at least 4 town in the hood, we can even stop recruiting and mechanically solve this maybe.

Thanks, Captain Obvious.

[Fumuki]

If it`s obvious you should actually stop saying trap like deepwolves doesn`t matter

because if it`s obvious to you that as long as we don`t recruit mafia to the hood it`s a very town sided setup, it should be obvious as well that deepwolves are important.

For example, I completely disagree with adding HRG to the hood, while I think newer players would have a more natural tendency of town reading the slot (like TL did).

and also I would be fine with an awe lynch today.

[awestfie]

because if it`s obvious to you that as long as we don`t recruit mafia to the hood it`s a very town sided setup, it should be obvious as well that deepwolves are important.

No shit. What does this have to do with deepwolf? If the neighborhood town-reads someone, they should add them to the neighborhood. If they're worried that they might be a deepwolf, then they're town-read is shit. I don't understand how you're having such a hard time grasping that.

VOTE: Fumuki

Them overdoing things, on top of the obvious comments they just spit out makes me feel like they're just throwing out words in an attempt to look useful. It doesn't feel natural. Their read on Flubbernugget in 323 is weak.

[High Risk Gamble]

I think you`re playing around the chat, he is saying that your push is fake because he never said anything about the hood, and all you`re assuming is something that would be implied, but that he hadn`t said (and he is saying that he didn`t mean it like that).

This.

I actually made a point by point argument to HRG's 411. And then I realized there was only one point I didn't already address (doing so below). I'm not arguing on terms of someone who could be scum and letting them poison the thread.

HRG, if you were interested in my reads the way you said you were, you would have pushed them over whatever tinfoil strategy you're trying to assume upon me.

That's why I questioned it with you.
I'm not sure if we're thinking completely different arguments or if my posts are being mis understood but I'm unclear to what your argument is to mine now.

From the 1st shade comment I addressed you on this, I questioned you about Maad and confirmed I was assuming several times. I questioned you on this, literally everything o have said is consistent in a obvious legitimate push.
My overall concern was your motivation to it and you made it clear that you can't respond to my questions instead you just keep posting it's a fake push or something worthless along the lines.

[Fumuki]

You`re not derailing the thread or the Flubb wagon.

The Flubb wagon is consistent and I have a case on my ISO that you`ve not even commented about even though you say that our reasons are shit.

You might actually just be scum tbh.

[Eyes without a face]

I don't want to interrupt the ongoing conversations so I'll put my thoughts inside a spoiler and then you can read it once you're done doing what you're doing.

Spoiler:

I am still not happy with the way TL is developing his reads and/or his voting patterns. For example, he had Flubber as his 4th scum read stating he was trying to be concise and towny. This sounded like it was a positive view, as in "at least he is trying". Then TL turns around and votes Flubber as soon as Fumuki makes a case and starts a wagon there, and I am left thinking.. if you meant he was trying as in "faking" then why the hell is he so high on the read list. If you did think he was 4th from the bottom so why not stay committed to a vote on one of the bottom 3? After all we only have 3 scums in here.

This feels opportunistic to me, so it's not just the read on me.. it's everything he days really, and it's starting to feel like those sport fanatics that go like: it's a foul because it was done unto my team, but if we did it it would have been fair game. It's called double standards.

I also agree that the wagon on Flubber went up too fast for my liking. Like, he may have been lazy at the start but he's engaged now and I'm not seeing what those who are voting him are seeing. Something feels terribly wrong here.

Note: Still TR Fumuki hard. He did the effort to try and compose a case, and I think he believes his own case. It's the other voters I'm not too comfortable with their votes.

Also Saudi Arabia hasn't really contributed much so far and it's hard to get a read on a slot that's basically saying nothing. So I'm scummy in your eyes? Why? And what other reads do you have besides Ejji-Town and Fumuki-scum?

Right now I think my read list is slightly adjusted to:
Fumuki
Ejji
roster
ofrhz
HRG
Flub
maad
awest
Saudade
TL

And given the two leading wagons I'd obviously much rather lynch TL over Flubber, so

VOTE: TL

[awestfie]

If they're worried that they might be a deepwolf, then they're town-read is shit.

If they're worried that they might be a deepwolf, then

their

* town-read is shit.

You're pointing things out as if we're living in a perfect world and as if things are going to happen a certain way. If I town-read someone, I don't worry about them being a deepwolf because that would make my town-read weak. You can't town-read someone and also think they're a deepwolf at the same time. This is why this discussion is useless.

[awestfie]

If you think I'm scum because I disagree of your shit logic, then that's fine. I don't really care. It doesn't change the fact that focusing on a deepwolf is a complete waste of time.

[Flubbernugget]

Lets pretend a deepwolf conversation never happened. Who is scum then?

[Fumuki]

Also if anyone thinks I`m scum read Mini Normal 2070, and compare with Micro 840.

My scum play vs town play.

The day that I make a full case on someone as scum, is the day when pigs begin to fly.

As scum you just push simple reasons because it`s easier even to convince people that way. In Mini Normal 2070, there was a wagon in my scumbuddy and instead of casing someone seriously I just began to talk about how Vork was scummy without much diligence.

I`m never scum here awe, and all my past games are a proof of it.

[Flubbernugget]

Errrr,

You should be pushing to get your scum reads lynched as town, so if you can get that with simpler cases, you should be doing that as town too

[Fumuki]

If they're worried that they might be a deepwolf, then they're town-read is shit.

If they're worried that they might be a deepwolf, then

their

* town-read is shit.

You're pointing things out as if we're living in a perfect world and as if things are going to happen a certain way. If I town-read someone, I don't worry about them being a deepwolf because that would make my town-read weak. You can't town-read someone and also think they're a deepwolf at the same time. This is why this discussion is useless.

I`m not saying to doubt the town reads because they might be deepwolves.

I`m saying there is literally no reason to really town read either Roster or HRG.

It`s that simple.

[Fumuki]

Errrr,

You should be pushing to get your scum reads lynched as town, so if you can get that with simpler cases, you should be doing that as town too

Well...

I could keep relentless pushing like I do as scum, but what if you were town and if I tried to chat with you like I`m doing now, I could prevent a mislynch?

I don`t think so

But yeah you`re not doing great work in convincing me you`re town

[Eyes without a face]

because if it`s obvious to you that as long as we don`t recruit mafia to the hood it`s a very town sided setup, it should be obvious as well that deepwolves are important.

No shit. What does this have to do with deepwolf? If the neighborhood town-reads someone, they should add them to the neighborhood. If they're worried that they might be a deepwolf, then they're town-read is shit. I don't understand how you're having such a hard time grasping that.

VOTE: Fumuki

Them overdoing things, on top of the obvious comments they just spit out makes me feel like they're just throwing out words in an attempt to look useful. It doesn't feel natural. Their read on Flubbernugget in 323 is weak.

Regardless of the issue, I don't think this warrants a vote on Fumuki at all. You say potayto, he says potahto. That's all.

I think I'm starting to like my bottom 3 reads for a scum team. No I just need to go check if they had any significant interactions with each other.

[Jingle]

bumpity