Newbie 1925 - Game Over

[TTTT]

why are you TRing MJL?

[Schiavetto]

Oh my b, didn't see the updated vote.

I don't TR them per se, they're a null that I don't think is worth flipping rn. I mean, if you want to go for it tomorrow, by all means, let's. But I think it's wasted effort.

[Schiavetto]

I realize that's directly at odds with my prior post, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

[zeebu]

i dont really, why would it be wasted effort? we just dont learn anything?

[TTTT]

Oh my b, didn't see the updated vote.

I don't TR them per se, they're a null that I don't think is worth flipping rn. I mean, if you want to go for it tomorrow, by all means, let's. But I think it's wasted effort.

yeah I also don't get why it's wasted effort
MJL is going to post her ketchup post soon
maybe she'll convince me she's town
but I doubt it

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm formatting day one's review now. I'll have it posted soon.

[MaryJoLisa]

Fourth person in my slot and it’s only D2. That’s impressive. Let the record show that I asked for this slot on 4/13, but the replacement order of operations meant Screaming had the first crack at it. I’m here now, though!

Reviewapalooza Day 1 of Newbie 1925:

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 1-5

Ok, so I'm a math teacher. I won't vote Teacher because of this, and Arithmancer evidently gets a pass too.

Your status as a math teacher earns life-cred with me and I will not be voting you day 1 because of this.

I'm a Vice Principal, btw

Nice. BTW, this thread officially qualifies for the teacher discount at the movie theater.

VOTE: theASC
I'm slightly offended you think anyone could be so stupid.

I guess playing so many games in real life with people who aren't quite as... formal... has somewhat tainted my perspective of the average player.

I kinda wish someone had hammered though. That'd have to be some sort of record and I, for one, would be happy to be in the mafia hall of fame.

Although this is the kind of reasoning that could've encouraged a newbie townie to hammer. Not saying it's good reasoning, but the fact that you're thinking it implies other people could be too.

22.2% chance of fame 77.7% shame

As a mathsy person myself, I feel the need to point out from any one townie's view (i.e. the townie that goes for the hammer) it would be a 25% chance of fame, as they would not be counted in their own probabilities.

I'm the kind of person who hammers accidentally. And also on purpose. But JPD wanting a hammer is unsettling. Sounds like they don’t care which greenie they take out as long as they take out a greenie.

-general experience levels? If not your first game, give me a little self-meta?

12 games completed, only 2 as scum. I'm a lurker-answerer though I am trying to change my style to become more active. I'm usually useless for reads on Day 1, but I get sharper as the game progresses. I think Day 1 is only pure speculation without a flip.

Not *pure* speculation, no. Some of these folks come in here and lay the whole thing out D1.

Ah I missed gamestart I blame timezones
Reading through the game gives me conflicting thoughts in my head. I am seeing ASC either being paranoid town or him trying to make himself look townie (Schia mentions this in his 39).
I just don't understand the people who oppose L-1 early game, is it bad to pressure someone this way?

Hrmmmm. Not an excellent entrance, sorry.

Post edit: Oh shit. That’s my slot? That’s very unfortunate! :S

I think that the way TheASC pulled his vote on me at L-1 is town, or very crafty scum.

I just think it was RVS shenanigans.

Sorry for the poke, hopefully I'll be more active over the next few days. I guess that's the problem with having so many reactionary players - It's easier to build on someone else's post than it is to start something new.

I'm not getting reactionary vibes off people, but I'll keep an eye out for it.

this game needs more teacher

Games always needs more teacher, but this game in particular has quite a few teachers already.

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 6-10

Just had another good look through the thread, here's a summary of my thoughts. I'll probably vote later today once I've properly thought about where to go from here.

I like where this is going...
VOTE: Sash

L-1

If you vote for Sash he will be lynched
don't do this yet

do you really think town comes in here and lolhammers?

@TTTT, you understand just how unlikely it is for town to hammer yet you feel the need to specify "If you vote for Sash he will be lynched" "don't do this yet". Why? Are you doubting that people wouldn't know how the game works and would join the lynch train because they didn't know what they were doing?

Some people really wouldn’t know.
In my experience with TTTT, he doesn’t like to see people hammered quickly. He likes to sit back and absorb the game and he sets little scum-traps out for people to see who takes the bait. The fact that he told people not to lynch Sash too early is just TTTT being TTTT, but what really bothers me is that TTTT didn’t remove his own vote from Sash to prevent a hammer. So some newbie might have wandered in there and said, “Hey! Voting for Sash is the cool thing to do!” and then scum!TTTT’s hands would have been clean of that lynch.

ASC votes Sasha
Schiavetto votes Sasha
Teacher votes Sasha
TTTT votes Sasha placing him at L-1 and says, “Hey guys! Don’t vote Sasha, lol! Hope you get this message in time cause it would suck if you hammered him accidentally.”

I see what you did there, TTTT.

This is actually my strongest scumread.

First, theres a bit of oddity in the language: "I think hes asking us for our reads". TTTT's question isnt ambiguous - he is indeed asking for your reads. This line, though arguably responsive to ASC, simply strikes me as tonally off.

Second, I dont get the scum read of arith from 54, if not the others that repeated the same point. Indeed, Arith's 54 on the whole gave me town vibes, even if it was flogging a dead horse. Such was the gamestate at the time.

Third, Im curious about the appearance of an avatar different from the one provided from someone who didnt seem graphically inclined.

VOTE: Zeebu

129 above was one solid post. Allow me to sheep it. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the wagon though...
VOTE: Zeebu

L-1

Not 100% comfortable with the wagon, but pushes to L-1 anyway?

Teacher at least sees reasons and seems comfortable voting for zeebu. Why would you push a wagon to L-1 that you're not "comfortable" with, Sasha?

I'd rather a newbie replace in than another SE

This feels strange to me, why would you not want an experienced player in the game? Feels to me like you might be trying to push an easy mislynch on an inactive player.

That was not my initial impression of what he meant because I also want newbies or less experienced players to replace into newbie slots. But I think you’re noticing a trend with TTTT and I’m starting to see it too.

I'd rather a newbie replace in than another SE

This is weird.

It’s really not weird, but yeah, maybe TTTT had motivations behind that comment.

I'm SRing that slot
so no... I don't want a good scum player to replace in

Post Edit: While I now know that Clarity was scum, I can still see this as scum!TTTT wanting a newbie so they’re not as capable of seeing TTTT’s scummy machinations.

And this comment after I subbed in is now highly suspicious.

@MJL
feel free to do your catch-up read without the flips

Mmmhmmm. I see what you're doing there, TTTT.

even though tttt had been the loudest voice in my favor, i think he also stands the most to gain if i am mislynched on day 1

That could be. I won’t dismiss that possibility.

My only completed game was my first mafia game ever, so that should indicate how much experience I have with this game. Because of my inexperience I haven't fully developed my meta yet, but I know that I'm far lurkier than I should be. (For what it's worth, that completed game was a win for me )

That was a win for us! For those who don’t know the game, Clarity and I messed up the vote count and our errors led to lynching scum accidentally.

Me, ASC, Zest.
Not obvious in terms of being obvious scum, but we had all be pointed at by other people in the thread. Me by Sasha, ASC by me and Shiav, Zest by TTTT.
It's entirely possible my understanding of how newb!scum would play is flawed since I'm a newb myself but I feel like they would want to fit in/go with the flow.

This post is super town tbh

Now I’m suspicious of JPD. This is why I didn’t want the spoilers.

if pressed, a bit scummy tbh. he seems really on board with my towniness, which is nice i guess, but saying it enough starts to rub the wrong way. especially since he seems to be the only one being vocal about it right now.

he is trying to direct the action a bit, it helps to progress the game, but it seems like hes the one driving

you know what VOTE: TTTT

This feels like a bussing attempt.
I'm discontent with zeebu's posts in general tbh.

even though tttt had been the loudest voice in my favor, i think he also stands the most to gain if i am mislynched on day 1

That's true — no matter what alignment TTTT is, he gets towncred for opposing your lynch. Do you read him as scum or town, then?

Okay, right now I'm SRing either Zeebu or TTTT as Clarity's scum buddy.

Quick reads list:

Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Townlean:
Schiavetto, JPD

Null:
TheASC, ZestOfLife

Scumlean:
zeebu

Scum:
TTTT

Need more content from players on null.

Well how about that! The two people I'm SRing are at the bottom of Clarity's read's list. I pulled this exact same stunt in my scum game to try to distance myself from my partner. The thing that bothers me is that TTTT isn't a rep-in and I can't imagine that he'd have stood behind a post like this. Reluctantly, I am putting zeebu further down on the SR than TTTT.

Okay, I'm done for the night.
Now I propose a question to all of you: What is your general read of Arithmancer's slot after reading my posts and why?

Well, it turned out you were scum.

Scum:
TTTT

why aren't you voting me?

Good question. I think it’s because you’re the chaff, but I really thought you were scum when I started reading this game.

is it fair to say that the general consensus is that one of either tttt or i are likely to be scum?

It looks that way to me.

Also, I'm not too keen on this question, considering zeebu was at the time (and is currently) voting TTTT.

My excuse here is less justifiable . I posted my zeebu analysis before my response to Schiva's post about the vote spread, so I had not fully registered that zeebu had voted for TTTT. I read the vote itself but I forgot to incorporate it in my question to zeebu's 184.

I also operated under the assumption that zeebu would flip town despite my scumreading him because I was still reeling from the result of

something I cannot talk about right now,

so I'd written my question with scum!TTTT and town-acting-scummy!zeebu in mind

. Serves me right for trying to catch up at 3am in the morning.

everything about this seems off

Nice distancing

My read on Sasha isn't a particularly strong one, certainly not something I'd consider lynching him over at the moment but that could change.

1)

Sasha hasn't done any active scum hunting. Of his 38 posts he has asked only two questions (47 and 96) neither of which I would consider helpful for scumhunting. His other posts have reiterated something someone else has already said (43, 67, 68, 138, 176 and 216).

2)

He said in post 84 that he thought the scum was in the pool of lurkers. This feels like an excuse to not bother scumhunting, especially given he hadn't even made an attempt to pressure the active players before declaring this.

3)

His logic for jumping on the Zeebu bandwagon is inconsistent. When I pressured him on it he mentioned as special 'something' that he can't talk about. I'm not a fan of this. It derails discussion as suddenly we can't ask him (or anyone else who talks about the 'something') any questions about something they've done which was kind of suspect. He jumped on the bandwagon due to post 129 which he described as "strong" but wasn't in my opnion. This 'something' better be bloody good for him to suddenly change his mind. Evidence

4)

He is very reluctant to share any information. He posted his reads list 69 and Teacher and I both had to prod to twice to get him to share his reasoning (70 and 72, 79 and 81). Even then his reasoning was either week, or still not revealed fully. It feels like he posted his reads and had to come up with reasons after the fact. This 'something' is another example of that.
Some of this is a bit of a stretch, or could just be interpeted differently but I think Sasha would be my best candidate for a lynch right now (if I wanted to lynch someone right now, which I don't). Possibly TTTT as an alternative but I don't have reasons for that beyond his play seeming off when compared to my metadive. I'll look into that a bit more and see if I can put the feeling in to words.

Sasha was not so much on my mind, but I'm absolutely stuck on this post. I’ve been starting at it for *hours* and the amount of homework I’d have to do to check all those little posts has shut my brain down. @JPD if you’re still SRing Sasha in D2, can you break this down in more digestible chunks? (says the person who posts a review *this* long)

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 11-15

Quick reads list:
Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Could you give me a quick overview of why you consider Sash town? I've got a history of tunneling hard so I just want a fresh set of eyes to highlight anything I may be subconsciously ignoring/misconstruing. You're late to the thread so you've got the freshest eyes of anyone

Yeah, that’s unsettling. Taking note of that one.

Also, in Sasha's most recent posts he mentions this 'something' not happening/not being what he thought it was.

I thought that after my L-1 vote,

a certain player

would quickly unvote. A hammer would have been useful too I guess, but I was looking for the jump off.
Right now that wagon has been static at this state for about two days, I'll unvote myself. Time is short and we must agree on a wagon, Zeebu can still wait later.
UNVOTE: Zeebu

TRing this. I straight up SR Zeebu, but Sasha wants to work it out and be sure.

Thanks for noticing TTTT had asked that exact question AND had it answered before.

!! That’s scum!teacher !!

P-edit: Okay, it's apparently not scum!Teacher.

My first observation is that literally no one who's abbreviated my name this game has done so w/o typoing - which, um, rude tbh.

You keep calling me something totally different! Someone else did that once before and they were not nice.

JPD is top town

Slow down there, cowboy. TheASC is top town read.

can you peeps move some votes to Clarity?

Oh well. I begrudgingly concede that you made the right call here. I’ll reconsider JPD and ASC in light of new information.

JPD is top town

Finally we start vibing?

Okay, and Teacher sees it too.
Hey some reads lists from my predecessors would have been awesome!

bah, sorry teacher, inability to read. your vote is on shasha now.
VOTE: clearlyclarity
might as well back up what i said with a vote

dont mind me, waffling on who to vote for. this is probably the best way to get a deeper explanation on what sasha was waiting for
VOTE: sasha

Well that’s actually really interesting.

@ASC
why aren't you voting?

Not confident in any of my scum reads at the moment. I know I

should

vote

someone

for pressure, but I'm struggling to decide who to go for and feel like I need a large amount of evidence/reasoning before I feel comfortable voting now that we're out of RVS.
Huh. Why so struggly?

lynchpool:
Clarity
Noodle
ASC
Sash

those top two should be priority wagons/sorts rn

For the most part I agree with this. Teacher, zeebu and JPD are my strongest trs currently.

Does this feel a little sheepy to anyone else?

Spoiler: Day 1 pages 16-17

I'm gonna find teaching jobs at my school for all the teachers here
and assign you extra planning periods
so you'll be more active in your games

Current thoughts:
ASC
-----
zeebu, Schia, teacher
-----
TTTT, JPD, Sasha
-----
Clarity, wilky

@ ASC, Teacher, TTTT:
If you had to choose a lynch outside of me and Zebu, who would it be?

wilky. Neither him nor ZoL have posted much, and they posts they have made definitely don't help his cause.
I’ve read up through this point and my slot should very reasonably be in your null group. When I read this (with colors) when I subbed in, I was expecting this slot to have earned that position. I can’t make a case for scum reading my slot based entirely on turn-over.

Thought I voted in my big post a couple of hours ago.
I must have missed that. VOTE: wilky

I need to think about this because I already know that Clarity flipped red and here you are avoiding her wagon.

Been a really long day for me, worked 6am - 5.30 pm then done a 400 mile drive afterwards. I've quickly skimmed the thread and will do a more in depth post tomorrow morning.]

Checking in now. Give me a few.

Looks like it's not me promising posts later and not following through. Although I guess Clarity could've been asking for a few hours or days... Let's lynch one of those two today, I don't mind which.

Oh wow. Why would you want to lynch Wilky given the information you were working with? But on the other hand, if Clarity were your partner, I can’t see a case for you being willing to (and then ultimately) vote for her.

Yeah, you’re town. I don't think I can make a case that you're scum.

ASC, ClearlyClarity and Schiavetto shouldn't be sitting on their vanity wagons, we'e runnning out of time. Wilky should be voting too.
Vote me if you want to, we might learn something.

TOWN! (Okay, I was just scumreading you, but admittedly, this post feels very town so I'm going to keep this in mind.)

Why am I the one getting fingered for not following up when the onus should be on the person answering?

Because it makes it seem like you don’t care about the answer - that you’re doing it to “look” towny rather than actually find information. If you cared about it, you’d push for answers like TTTT and Schiavetto have both done this game.

Yup! and teacher flipped green, so I'm following this advice.

[Schiavetto]

Kinda messed up how in that entire collection of quotes, the only time you addressed me was to mention how I refer to you by different names.

[Schiavetto]

I'm feeling neglected, fam.

[MaryJoLisa]

Yeah, I know. I actually considered that as I was writing it. Truth is, I'm not sure what to make of you and I didn't want to completely sheep off other people's view. I should have pointed that out, though. You generally lean town for me, but there's something there that nags at me and I can't quite put my finger on it. I think I owe you another ISO read-through.

This was the pared down version, and in my original version, I'd greeted you and acknowledged that you're a teacher. Cool!

[zeebu]

I'm feeling neglected, fam.

im still wondering why you called it wasted effort, unless you meant wasted effort on mjl's side of things. it would be a bummer to spend a few hours catching up only to find yourself lynched immediately i guess.

[zeebu]

Nice distancing

then that would have been my second instance then, my original read was against arith when he had the slot.

third maybe if you count my voting for clarity then immediately swapping to sasha

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm feeling neglected, fam.

im still wondering why you called it wasted effort, unless you meant wasted effort on mjl's side of things. it would be a bummer to spend a few hours catching up only to find yourself lynched immediately i guess.

When was it called a wasted effort? I guess I'm not familiar with "fam."

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh, I found it. Yeah, Schiavetto, why would my review be wasted effort? my slot has posted absolutely nothing of substance before I got here. Don't you want the opportunity to sort the slot?

[zeebu]

@maryjolisa

knowing what you know now, what are your thoughts on this post?

is it something you would have done now that youre in this slot?

[zeebu]

specifically on the part about how i percieved zest coming to the defense of arith

[JPD]

My read on Sasha isn't a particularly strong one, certainly not something I'd consider lynching him over at the moment but that could change.

1)

Sasha hasn't done any active scum hunting. Of his 38 posts he has asked only two questions (47 and 96) neither of which I would consider helpful for scumhunting. His other posts have reiterated something someone else has already said (43, 67, 68, 138, 176 and 216).

2)

He said in post 84 that he thought the scum was in the pool of lurkers. This feels like an excuse to not bother scumhunting, especially given he hadn't even made an attempt to pressure the active players before declaring this.

3)

His logic for jumping on the Zeebu bandwagon is inconsistent. When I pressured him on it he mentioned as special 'something' that he can't talk about. I'm not a fan of this. It derails discussion as suddenly we can't ask him (or anyone else who talks about the 'something') any questions about something they've done which was kind of suspect. He jumped on the bandwagon due to post 129 which he described as "strong" but wasn't in my opinion. This 'something' better be bloody good for him to suddenly change his mind. Evidence

4)

He is very reluctant to share any information. He posted his reads list 69 and Teacher and I both had to prod to twice to get him to share his reasoning (70 and 72, 79 and 81). Even then his reasoning was either week, or still not revealed fully. It feels like he posted his reads and had to come up with reasons after the fact. This 'something' is another example of that.
Some of this is a bit of a stretch, or could just be interpeted differently but I think Sasha would be my best candidate for a lynch right now (if I wanted to lynch someone right now, which I don't). Possibly TTTT as an alternative but I don't have reasons for that beyond his play seeming off when compared to my metadive. I'll look into that a bit more and see if I can put the feeling in to words.

Sasha was not so much on my mind, but I'm absolutely stuck on this post. I’ve been starting at it for *hours* and the amount of homework I’d have to do to check all those little posts has shut my brain down. @JPD if you’re still SRing Sasha in D2, can you break this down in more digestible chunks? (says the person who posts a review *this* long)[/spoiler]

I thought I had broken it into digestible chunks (4 to be precise). I'll do my best to simplify it further, I can admit that the formatting wasn't great.

Point 1 is that Sasha hadn't done any active scum hunting at that point. Most of his posts were irrelevant imo. He asked two questions (which weren't helpful) and just parroted others. Some of the posts I listed were a stretch but that was mostly deliberate. I wanted to see him defend himself but he didn't and I found that to be at odds with his town meta.

Point 2 is that he said "I suspect scum are in the lurker pool" without having made any effort to question people or progress the game. It felt (feels) like an excuse to not do any scumhunting.

Point 3 is the inconsistent thought process for jumping on the Zeebu bandwagon. I explain this a bit better in a recent post (517)

Point 4 is the reluctance to share reasoning/analysis/information. Again, I explain this better in 517. Long story short, I feel like he makes his reasons up after the fact.

I'm the kind of person who hammers accidentally. And also on purpose. But JPD wanting a hammer is unsettling. Sounds like they don’t care which greenie they take out as long as they take out a greenie.

Sasha didn't like this in the early game. I think I answered to his satisfaction in post 77.

My only completed game was my first mafia game ever, so that should indicate how much experience I have with this game. Because of my inexperience I haven't fully developed my meta yet, but I know that I'm far lurkier than I should be. (For what it's worth, that completed game was a win for me )

That was a win for us! For those who don’t know the game, Clarity and I messed up the vote count and our errors led to lynching scum accidentally.

Me, ASC, Zest.
Not obvious in terms of being obvious scum, but we had all be pointed at by other people in the thread. Me by Sasha, ASC by me and Shiav, Zest by TTTT.
It's entirely possible my understanding of how newb!scum would play is flawed since I'm a newb myself but I feel like they would want to fit in/go with the flow.

This post is super town tbh

Now I’m suspicious of JPD. This is why I didn’t want the spoilers.

When Clarity posted their reads they placed Sasha as town and me as only a townlean. This seemed inconsistent as they had said a post of mine was "super town" and hadn't mentioned Sasha once. I asked Clarity about this with the intention to follow up but they never responded. Teacher reiterated my question twice (401 and 420) but they ignored it.

If anything, I'd say that Clarity calling Sasha with no reasoning is more suspicious than calling me a town lean with reasoning.

Quick reads list:
Town:
teacher, Sashaddin

Could you give me a quick overview of why you consider Sash town? I've got a history of tunnelling hard so I just want a fresh set of eyes to highlight anything I may be subconsciously ignoring/misconstruing. You're late to the thread so you've got the freshest eyes of anyone

Yeah, that’s unsettling. Taking note of that one.

This is the question I asked and that Teacher reiterated.

Firstly, I do have a history of tunnelling. I've mentioned it multiple times and in my most recent game (which was like 3 years ago) I tunnelled so hard on the Town Doctor that they self hammered and the game had to be restarted. It's fair to say I am conscious of tunnelling.

Secondly, I wanted them to post their reasons for having Sasha as a top TR and then follow up with the inconsistency thing.

Aight. I'm done responding to the things regarding me. I'll post some other stuff in a bit.

[JPD]

@JPD I don't like the idea of confing anyone based on sub rotations

I understand that. I thought I'd had a genius moment but TTTT dashed those hopes. Even without evidence of Wilky being active at the night I can see why it would still be a bad idea.

[Sashaddin]

Point 1 is that Sasha hadn't done any active scum hunting at that point. Most of his posts were irrelevant imo. He asked two questions (which weren't helpful) and just parroted others. Some of the posts I listed were a stretch but that was mostly deliberate. I wanted to see him defend himself but he didn't and I found that to be at odds with his town meta.

Point 2 is that he said "I suspect scum are in the lurker pool" without having made any effort to question people or progress the game. It felt (feels) like an excuse to not do any scumhunting.

Point 3 is the inconsistent thought process for jumping on the Zeebu bandwagon. I explain this a bit better in a recent post (517)

Point 4 is the reluctance to share reasoning/analysis/information. Again, I explain this better in 517. Long story short, I feel like he makes his reasons up after the fact.

1. True. I was more busy than usual and less into the game.
2. That was from a bit of thinking actually. I don't post everything I analyze.
3. I waffle on that slot like crazy. Very hard read to me.
4. Apart from my missed ambush on the Zest slot, I felt I had explained much of my thoughts. Do you have an example?

[TTTT]

ok I admit it MJL's ketchup post isn't screaming scum

[TTTT]

I have two hopeful outcomes for this game:
1. for zeebu to be town
2. for "ketchup" to become a thing

[TTTT]

I've been too lazy day2
that's what you get when everybody TRs me
and we already lynched 1 scum
I'll try and get a re-read done sometime soon with updated thoughts
there must be nuggets in day1 after that flip

[MaryJoLisa]

I have two hopeful outcomes for this game:
1. for zeebu to be town
2. for "ketchup" to become a thing

You really don't like the name "reviewapalooza" do you?

I thought it was clever.

I'm on mobile and/or distracted for probably the most of the evening. I'm not ignoring follow up questions, but I may fluff around until I can respond properly.

[Schiavetto]

Not sure what's confusing about what I said so I'm not going to bother clarifying. Thanks & enjoy your evening<3

[Micc]

.