Open 755: Two-Fold C9++ (GAME OVER)

[Irrelephant11]

Please do tell, though, why a townie couldn't believe for half a second that two of his scumreads were indeed scum

Its the mental gymnastics youre trying to justify that I find suspect.

please explain

Like I said, I kind of feel like maybe you were looking to muddy up the game with rooster reads. Getting rooster to give any info is fine, but Im wondering if it wasnt just some kind of coaching. Thats not any more unlikely than chen hardbussing or rooster being a maf defector.

What was there to muddy? If your thought is that I was coaching roster as his partner, why wouldn't I just tell him in scumchat to post reads?

[Irrelephant11]

I think shoshin was suboptimal.

I think its a shallow reason for wolf reading me since you did so beforehand

I think its better calling me wolf now than calling me roosters buddy like you did at day-break.

Oh wait
I did think you were roster's buddy
and roster was maf....
Welp now I'm confused

Yeah I thought persivul was wolf and you were maf my b
I take back that reason to scumread you, maybe

[Irrelephant11]

I have procrastinated work for too long I'll be back later

[Fuscosco]

why wouldn't I just tell him in scumchat to post reads?

Subject: Open 568: Wolf Gang City – Mafia Topic

Confirming that FuDuzn has chosen Spy.

Locked for Day start.

[Irrelephant11]

why wouldn't I just tell him in scumchat to post reads?

Subject: Open 568: Wolf Gang City – Mafia Topic

Confirming that FuDuzn has chosen Spy.

Locked for Day start.

Oh
Well yeah that is a reasonable-ish read on it then I guess.

Fuscosco if you, me, penguin, chennis are town, who's the scum in your eyes?

[Fuscosco]

rn I think 2 scum are in dave, irre, dunn, persi, maybe vork. I want wagons here.

I dont have a real read on bae, but tr them for some reason I forget.
I dont have a good opinion of the usually vocal vork not being vocal. I saw them as scum last game and I let it slide, much to my quicklynch.
I dont know anythin about creature or PP. is it usual for them to do nothing?

[Fuscosco]

rn I think

at least

2 scum are in dave, irre, dunn, persi, maybe vork. I want wagons here.

I dont have a real read on bae, but tr them for some reason I forget.
I dont have a good opinion of the usually vocal vork not being vocal. I saw them as scum last game and I let it slide, much to my quicklynch.
I dont know anythin about creature or PP. is it usual for them to do nothing?

[DuckDuckJab]

I'm getting paranoid about baezu because I feel like everyone, including scum have kind of passively written him of as town.

I really don't think any wagon on anybody would be a good reason to townread someone in a multiball. So your reasoning for that read is kinda sketchy irrel.

I think irrel is wrong on certain things in a rather weird way but I dunno.. he just doesn't make sense as scum here. UNLESS he's scum with persivul. Now I townread very much but irrel entertaining the thought of skitter bussing persivul looks like a distancing gambit to me. It's far easier for me to accept that than him actually considering it. Now maybe his late replace-in affects his perception of it but I just can't see how anyone who read the interactions between skitter and persivul and was there to read the gamestate at the time could think that they're on the same team. So it comes of as really shady to me, like intentionally making us keep that thought in mind.

Really want a dunn lynch. That is like my 90%+ confidence scum flip.
VOTE: dunnstral

Fusco seems more townie now but that could just be him trying harder because he lost a partner. I don't think it makes up yet for his earlier play.

Vork could easily be scum. I've really just been ignoring him because tw townreads him, and earlier there was major resistance to any attempts at lynching vork, but now that both skitter and shoshin are dead, he's an option. I guess I'll talk it out with tw see if he still townreads him and why.

-BuJ

[DuckDuckJab]

To be more specific on percy/irrel I'm saying I strongly townread percy, I weakly townread irrel, but either of them flipping MAFIA would make the other look very bad because of irrel's ponderings.

If persivul flips werewolf I'd just be very very wrong about this entire game in a way that I've never ever been not even in my first mafia game ever. This would not be a simple incorrect read from my pov it would mean I've been looking at the game all wrong and literally all my gut feels are wrong. Which considering skitter flipped scum that's already proof that my gut is right on at least 1 thing.

[Irrelephant11]

I think irrel is wrong on certain things in a rather weird way but I dunno.. he just doesn't make sense as scum here.

What am I wrong about? Why is it weird?

[Irrelephant11]

I think its better calling me wolf now than calling me roosters buddy like you did at day-break.

why?

[Irrelephant11]

Now I townread very much but irrel entertaining the thought of skitter bussing persivul looks like a distancing gambit to me. It's far easier for me to accept that than him actually considering it. Now maybe his late replace-in affects his perception of it but I just can't see how anyone who read the interactions between skitter and persivul and was there to read the gamestate at the time could think that they're on the same team.

If I make the case for their being a team will you make the opposing case

[Irrelephant11]

I'm getting paranoid about baezu because I feel like everyone, including scum have kind of passively written him of as town.

I agree that that's kinda where baezu sits. That said, I would be mildly surprised if he were scum here

[NerfedBuJ]

Now I townread very much but irrel entertaining the thought of skitter bussing persivul looks like a distancing gambit to me. It's far easier for me to accept that than him actually considering it. Now maybe his late replace-in affects his perception of it but I just can't see how anyone who read the interactions between skitter and persivul and was there to read the gamestate at the time could think that they're on the same team.

If I make the case for their being a team will you make the opposing case

I'd rather you just accepted my opinion.

But yeah I will. My case is short and sweet.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think irrel is wrong on certain things in a rather weird way but I dunno.. he just doesn't make sense as scum here.

What am I wrong about? Why is it weird?

Our slot, percy, penguin.

[NerfedBuJ]

But it's not like you're very direct and obvious with your read on us 3, you're just laying out a bunch of options which is what I'm finding weird.

I guess that only applies to us and percy. Your penguin read might ne right, but your reasoning for it is definitely wrong in multiball.

[NerfedBuJ]

I think irrel is wrong on certain things in a rather weird way but I dunno.. he just doesn't make sense as scum here.

What am I wrong about? Why is it weird?

Our slot, percy, penguin.

Oh I guess I should probably add wrong about skitter's scum play too.
But that could come up if you continue to push your percy was her teammate thing.

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I am sort of embarrassed about this but I'll just admit; I had reason to think I'd be able to read your slot without reading your entire ISO
Mod answer has come in and... I can't.
So I'm kinda starting over for you.

Persivul I find hard to read on his own. I find his town play scummy until retrospect, and I thought I was safe sheeping two strong townies (skitter and shoshin) on him. Then they hard disagreed, one has flipped scum, and I'm inclined to trust the green flip's read on him. I do think his interactions with skitter were somewhat damning, as well, which I plan to lay out.

Penguin's wagon showed he is less likely to be scum. This does not change in multiball just because "oh well maybe only one scumteam wagoned him" - that would, by definition, make him less likely to be scum. I thought his responses when the wagon was on him were also in character for town!him

I don't think it's weird I misread skitter - she has an award for scumplay, after all.

[Fuscosco]

I think its better calling me wolf now than calling me roosters buddy like you did at day-break.

why?

Because it makes more sense?
it also is one of several inconsistencies i think i see in your iso.

I hate how rational you seem but how flawed your thinking seems to be. idk how to approach it.

[Irrelephant11]

I think its better calling me wolf now than calling me roosters buddy like you did at day-break.

why?

Because it makes more sense?
it also is one of several inconsistencies i think i see in your iso.

I hate how rational you seem but how flawed your thinking seems to be. idk how to approach it.

I haven’t explained yet why I think you’re scum with roster. How is it you see flaws in my thinking?
Also it seems obvious to me how to approach flawed thinking, especially with someone you see as rational. Point out the flaws.

Please point out the other consistencies. I would like to be able to catch myself on bad reads and fix them (rather than quickhammer consensus scum dunnstral in the next 48 hours and hope I figure things out later)

[DuckDuckJab]

I don't think it's weird I misread skitter - she has an award for scumplay, after all.

That's not what I'm criticizing at all. It's really easy to townread scum!skitter, she's that good.

I think you're wrong about how she would interact with Persivul if persivul were her partner.

[Kaiveran]

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[Fuscosco]

i mean im Mobile rn and kind of sick of the back and forth I've been doing with you. Im surprised youd do it with me but not say ducks, who has basically said the same thing

[Irrelephant11]

Do what with you? A back-and-forth? I've been talking with Duck all day, but more slowly, since we haven't been online at the same time as much. God your commentary on this game is bizarre. I get the feeling you're scratching and clawing for a reason to scumread me (I've felt that way all game).
Some surprise meetings and some things I mod in mish mash took away the time I wanted to spend making cases. I will make them tomorrow.

[Irrelephant11]

@Mod VC?