Forkbomb Mafia (Endgame)

[Fuscosco]

mmmmm

my gut say pp is the townier of ut/pp, but is still well within his range.
fl is being the boons I remember
I think the clemency hydra could be scum
I dont think PTD is a good phase one fork, but should go sooner than later
jingle is hard to read without real interactions hes high profile anyway so no reason to prioritize him first
I have no clue how to read bins
sky strikes me as very lightly green. but ever so light. more interactions would tell.
ten is one of my stronger trs rn
flubs is another decent phase one fork
prim is modestly town
chem is chem
nolunch has surprised me with how concise they are, and im a sucker for that.

[Bins]

Bins on the same page irks me.

Y?

She ignored a lot of things which I believed markedly more pertinent than the things she did not ignore. Her post with Skygazer felt uncomfortable. I spied her vote for Penguin out of the corner of my eye which also made me uncomfortable.

Do you disagree, Jingle?

i think i just make you uncomfortable, which is ok i make a lot of people uncomfortable

[Bins]

Do you disagree, Jingle?

Not as such, no. What do you think she ignored that she shouldn't have?

Virtually anything other than what she posted about. Bins seems astute and I was hoping for something I may have missed.

get ready for disappointment



you're trying to pull reads from the first page, you're more asstoot than i am

[Bins]

i sleep and reread the past few pages tmmr, i skimmed and got nothing interesting

[Apollo Khione]

mmmmm

my gut say pp is the townier of ut/pp, but is still well within his range.
fl is being the boons I remember
I think the clemency hydra could be scum
I dont think PTD is a good phase one fork, but should go sooner than later
jingle is hard to read without real interactions hes high profile anyway so no reason to prioritize him first
I have no clue how to read bins
sky strikes me as very lightly green. but ever so light. more interactions would tell.
ten is one of my stronger trs rn
flubs is another decent phase one fork
prim is modestly town
chem is chem
nolunch has surprised me with how concise they are, and im a sucker for that.

ur scum

[Chara]

looks hindsighty. did you really get that about me before i asked you this question, or after?

Lol What a complete lack of respect to suggest this

how is it a lack of respect? if you're town you're obviously not lying about it, and if you're scum you could be. this is a game about calling each other liars. i fail to see what's disrespectful about doing so.

[Chara]

I don't think its bad at all, nor do I think 'the game just started' osya viable defense for a player who hase popped in four or five times already.
I didnt do a good metadive on you chara, nor have I claimed to. I was too busy skimming several other people to firm up mu choices.

i don't see the point in making the case you did (which includes many points) if each of them is so minor that you have to cover what you say with "i didn't spend a lot of time on it". it makes me think you know none of it is strong, but you want to give some sort of basis to what you're saying anyway. if i criticize your case and your response is "there's a lot of players, i'm basing this off of vague things" it's a bad case. i'm not focusing on the entire list and my scope here is "narrow" because there are a lot of players. it's far easier to get solid reads on a handful to start with.
there's value in taking a weak read and running with it to get information and put down pressure (a lot of value) but your doubling down on your weak points while also defending why they're weak does rub me the wrong way.

[Chara]

no lunch is more town than scum for me right now. i can see where the solving is but i'll probably figure this out faster if the two of us find something notable to argue about.

[Flavor Leaf]

Apparently I’m being the same as I always am. I disagree. Tends to be a lot of people who say that kind of thing

[Chara]

we do often think our own behaviour is more complex than it really is.
or.
what you're thinking as you post does not always translate to what you post, thus your perception is off.
or.
you've really only been fluffing anyway, and i'd believe that intent from scum or town you. so does it really matter? :>

[no lunch]

Do you disagree, Jingle?

Not as such, no. What do you think she ignored that she shouldn't have?

Virtually anything other than what she posted about. Bins seems astute and I was hoping for something I may have missed.

get ready for disappointment



you're trying to pull reads from the first page, you're more asstoot than i am

My strong page one reads are historically very accurate. They're also very easy to correct compared to later-phase reads, which tend to be easier to tunnel.

Go back and try again Bins.

[no lunch]

I find it hard to discern an opinion from you at all Chara. Let alone one I should find exception with.
Given that is stalling you sorting me, do you believe it is a problem?

[Chara]

do you ever think about how the notoriety of a player affects every game they're in, and every player in those games? if you know someone you want to give them more time to show their alignment, so it tends to be the lesser-known players who get the rope.
you might call that unfair... but how often do lesser-known players (who haven't shown considerable scumhunting ability in their time alive) then get nightkilled?

and really, notable players get day 1 lynched all of the time by others who think they know their (considerable) meta better than they actually do.

none of this has anything to do with this game, but i'm bored.

[Chara]

I find it hard to discern an opinion from you at all Chara. Let alone one I should find exception with.
Given that is stalling you sorting me, do you believe it is a problem?

not at all. i don't find any particular need to sort you 100% immediately. but when thinking about how best to do so, a hypothetical where we argue is what i came up with.

but i believe i've given some opinions already... do you disagree? unless you me an opinion about yourself.

[no lunch]

I suppose you feel less presence simply because I agree with most of what you're saying. Your initial discomfort with me scumreading Skygazer was well placed, as I was provoking her into breaking out of a random voting stage mindset.

Fusco is the one I come closest to disagreeing with. He is largely null to me. I find his playstyle casually pockety regardless of his alignment and I do not believe he has showed his hand yet. To this end he is the kind of null read I will happily see forked up, but not someone I consider myself capable of reading as of yet.

Let me go and check the rest of your reads in case I have forgotten something pertinent.

Also I believe I forgot to say earlier: it is nice to see you again too!

[no lunch]

Other than that, it is largely the Penguin read. I have him down as somewhat likely to be town, so far. I will be keeping a close eye on where he goes next, though.

[Chara]

Fusco is scummy, i could say, but it would be more accurate to say Fusco is playing in a way i believe scum could. the defensiveness could be in defense of his playstyle, and a playstyle where he values reads on the entire list (see the top of this page) that are extremely weak, over reads focusing on one or two players. though this isn't my playstyle, it isn't improbable. this sort of pattern isn't uncommon at all, nor are the lists upon lists of "hm, null" or "maybe town, idk" reads that don't really help anyone but may have some value in determining read consistency (but how much if they aren't strong ones?) or looking back at later to give accountability/see where scum may have placed their teammates.

town Fusco having this style is not strange to me, with that in mind, and given Fusco's stated reason for scumreading me. but the contradiction of defending his reasoning while also defending it being weak is a sticking point where i make the decision to put him in my scumpile. further argument reveals whether this is really a contradiction, or some sort of misunderstanding between us.

rinse and repeat for the rest of the players in this game... well, probably not. but i can at least try, can't i?

pedit: so, you're saying we haven't disagreed on anything important yet. but hopefully we do soon! or maybe i can figured out if you're town without doing that.

(this post has been brought to you by "i don't know who wrote this, but it doesn't feel like Chara")

[Chara]

i would like to amend that i'm not trying to insult Fusco. i know a lot of players do the big readlist thing. i also do it. (though not so much recently, for whatever reason).

[Chara]

oh, right. and Bins is obvtown, don't fork her.

[no lunch]

I scratched my head over Fusco's 325. It did occur to me that this kind of content is easy to produce as mafia when the game is still picking up. But if you were going to do it as mafia to appear as though you were trying to solve the game, it does seem strange to me that you would put so little energy or effort into the list.

It is like providing a fake Ranger tier list, and including everybody as null.

It does not actually aid in solving the game, and I agree that I can see scum motivation for forcing through a read list where one feels inappropriate. At the same time, I suppose it's fair to say I cannot really parse why he would do it regardless of alignment.

oh, right. and Bins is obvtown, don't fork her.

Is Bins a very easy read, or have I overlooked something?

[no lunch]

Actually in isolation I believe I have just not paid enough attention when she hasn't been interacting with me. That is a good early ISO.

[Chara]

the 325 isn't actually very AI to me. i was more referring to the posts where Fusco and i spoke directly. i've seen lists like 325 in countless games.

pedit: yes, i don't have a lot of experience with Bins or her meta. i just find her towny.

[Chara]

325 is just very important context to how Fusco is approaching the game, because it gives context to comments from Fusco about me, where he said one of the things that made me scummy to him was only talking about a few players and ignoring far more.
and it's also relevant to 321, where Fusco says their arguments were weak due wanting to find a starting point of trying to get some sort of bead on the whole list.

[no lunch]

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I think I am more likely to sort Fuscosco below-null rather than above-null, but probably need to make a greater effort to get inside his head. His ISO is mostly posts which don't make me excited to attempt to parse his alignment - and then I ask myself whether he is playing in a way which obfuscates his alignment, or simply playing in an unfocused fashion.

Regardless his play is certainly sloppy, though not necessarily mafia indicative.

I'll circle back to this.

[no lunch]

I actually feel actively uncomfortable while I soft-defend him. It's quite similar to the feeling I get when controversially townreading a mafia partner. I might be intentionally looking for town indicators to try and find friction between us, Chara.

I'll confirmation bias check this and see whether this is our argument or whether I need to look for something more exciting.