In post 490, Vex Vience wrote:no actually, id disagree with you on that aust. i think what nmsa said is truthful and townie. regardless, if you arent claiming you get lynched. admittedly, really the only claim he couldve gotten away with was cop, but whoever the cop is wouldve cc'd it.
nl refusing to claim there was towny. I don't blame NMSA for not knowing that, even though I literally just got done saying that defiance was towny. I blame NMSA for pushing the lynch as specifically separate from nl's alignment, so that he can look back on the townflip and go "yeah but he deserved it!"
urap did this too, that's why I juxtaposed those two comments, but urap's felt a lot more like he was genuinely upset and that's why it read townier.
why would we bother lynching the supposed lyncher target when that means we lose the game?
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
not really. he couldve made a case to get off the stand if he claimed vt.
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
I have not in my entire career felt more obviously town than I did here.
I continuously tried to argue where I did not think that your reads were deep enough to catch an anti-town player, and you snarked back at me without considering my reasoning for a moment.
I feel absolutely justified in most of what I have said, though some has been somewhat hyperbolic. I will revisit this in some days' time and approach you if I feel the need to apologize.
Is it too much to consider that others don't view you the way you view yourself?
I do not doubt that they did (and did not suggest it was unfair for people to scumread me; only that it was unfair for those people not to play with me at all.
I agree, it is certainly obvious that others did not view me the way I view myself!
In post 495, Vex Vience wrote:also, i dont see how ive proven to be anti-town in my actions. this is really in-line with my town meta. my natural scummeta is to just lurk out of the game.
I don't mean intentionally so, but you hammered a guy who I was pretty sure was town, so...
In post 498, Vex Vience wrote:if i was you, id have claimed vt and said "i think im lynchers target. cop check me tonight."
"NMSA called out all three of us as scum or null in his reads list. Good thing no one's actually reading that." -Enter
"NMSA was at least a pretty easy mislynch that I didn't have to get my hands dirty to attain" -RC
In post 503, Vex Vience wrote:not really. he couldve made a case to get off the stand if he claimed vt.
Everybody in the game should claim vt there. Except perhaps the cop, if they lack imagination.
If I was successful in steering a lynch elsewhere and survived, my claiming vt would have accomplished nothing except shrinking the pool of possible cops for the mafia to night-kill.
@aust, yes, and thats my point. if he comes up guilty, we know hes the lyncher target. if he doesnt, we know hes just a vt.
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
NL, I had a back and forth with you for over an hour. I was open to seeing you as town. My game involves a ton of flip flopping. Case in point. I hard scum read vex early, and then did a complete about face. I SIMPLY SAW NO REASON TO ABOUT FACE.
I did NOT ignore you.
I did NOT insult you.
I did NOT do anything but look at your play, and get a bad read.
also, nl, i typically stick with my gut on meta reads. ive had several times ive had the right read originally then went against it. mostly in irl games, but it still applies to forums.
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
it even happened on the forums where i psyched myself out of a correct meta read. it was in a newbie under korina, and we went into 3p lylo. correctly meta read the other, and then voted against them because i doubted myself. it happens even more frequently in irl games with me.
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
There are many situations where it is -ev for a townie to claim at L-1, even if it means compromising their self-image. If somebody is refusing to claim in an open game, there is usually a deeper motivation for them not claiming. Do you play a lot of opens? They are a very good experience. Players are required to operate at a level of utility which is far greater than a closed game. If there is one power role which can have a large effect on the outcome of the game, using a vanilla townie as a meat-shield for them is tremendously valuable.
"NMSA called out all three of us as scum or null in his reads list. Good thing no one's actually reading that." -Enter
"NMSA was at least a pretty easy mislynch that I didn't have to get my hands dirty to attain" -RC
Oh, and this just occurred to me (and checking the setup thread it seems I'm not the first one to think of this): if you're scum and both of you are alive, and you see the cop claiming a guilty on someone who isn't scum, one of you has to claim to stop that.
In post 503, Vex Vience wrote:not really. he couldve made a case to get off the stand if he claimed vt.
Everybody in the game should claim vt there. Except perhaps the cop, if they lack imagination.
If I was successful in steering a lynch elsewhere and survived, my claiming vt would have accomplished nothing except shrinking the pool of possible cops for the mafia to night-kill.
ok, but we have a greater chance of hitting scum then. the cop would be forced to out d2 if thats the case anyways, so it wouldnt matter who scum were hunting for.
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
Thank you for this - it does help me to see what your approach was. I trust that you also see what my approach was.
As I mentioned, I will revisit this in some days' time and reach out to you if I feel that an apology is appropriate. I genuinely do not believe that our conversation reached a deep enough level that I should have felt confident in you being town.
In post 503, Vex Vience wrote:not really. he couldve made a case to get off the stand if he claimed vt.
Everybody in the game should claim vt there. Except perhaps the cop, if they lack imagination.
If I was successful in steering a lynch elsewhere and survived, my claiming vt would have accomplished nothing except shrinking the pool of possible cops for the mafia to night-kill.
ok, but we have a greater chance of hitting scum then. the cop would be forced to out d2 if thats the case anyways, so it wouldnt matter who scum were hunting for.
But if you let every vanilla townie claim off the stand, then you are letting vanilla townies off the stand.
Well, you said that practically every player claims at L-1. What you DIDN'T say is, among the players who DON'T, are they more often scum or town?
You seem to have some unstated assumption that anything that deviates from the norm is scum. There's really no reason for that assumption, and in fact the reverse is more often true. I'm pretty sure it is in this case. I very rarely see scum players refuse to claim at L-1.
In post 514, no lunch wrote:There are many situations where it is -ev for a townie to claim at L-1, even if it means compromising their self-image. If somebody is refusing to claim in an open game, there is usually a deeper motivation for them not claiming. Do you play a lot of opens? They are a very good experience. Players are required to operate at a level of utility which is far greater than a closed game. If there is one power role which can have a large effect on the outcome of the game, using a vanilla townie as a meat-shield for them is tremendously valuable.
fmpov, some of this post seems to support my point, and the rest appears to be gibberish. I can't figure out what you're talking about.
"NMSA called out all three of us as scum or null in his reads list. Good thing no one's actually reading that." -Enter
"NMSA was at least a pretty easy mislynch that I didn't have to get my hands dirty to attain" -RC
@aust, i feel very eh about that. in this setup i think the cop basically ignores any guilties they get. we have no way of sorting them out as mafia or lyncher target unless we have a n1 red and then they die n2 and flip vt. the cop really exists to find vts in this game.
"I preach darkness. I don't inspire hope—only shadows. It's up to you to find the light in my words." ~ Charles Lee
"The cosmos is all that is, or ever was, or ever will be." ~ Carl Sagan
In post 518, no lunch wrote:I genuinely do not believe that our conversation reached a deep enough level that I should have felt confident in you being town.
I don't understand how this is relevant. Not trying to be a dick. Just saying if there is a point you wanted me to glean from this, I'm not gleaning it.
