Mini Normal 2073: ~ramblings~ (game over)

Skellen · Post Post #3000 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2019 9:17 am

Going through Vork's interactions with other players at the moment.

I am a bit conflicted with Vork and Titus fitting together as team. As the slot was still JP it was important that Vork saved JP/Titus with unvoting as the early wagon on D1 was upon this slot. After that he immediately attacked S_S for defending JP/Titus and associating both as scum preflip. My initial thought was that he wanted to distract from himself that it was him who saved JP/Titus, maybe in case JP/Titus would actually have gotten lynched and is indeed scum. I also didn't liked his reasons for townreading JP/Titus after he dropped his case on that slot and S_S as it felt forced like he bought his AtE although it's uncharacteristic for town!JP as he said himself (#819 + #895).

But if I just look at Titus almost all interactions between her and Vork are antagonistic and feel natural, particularly at the end of D1 und later D3 during the slow motion massclaim. Also the way she pushed Vork up in the VC at D1 where only Zulfy was the other viable wagon looks rather risky, especially if Zulfy would be scum with them too. If I just look at Titus I am inclined to say she is never scum with Vork and Vork was just trying to get on good terms with JP as he played with JP in a former game where JP had damn good reads.

Does Titus usually bus hard as scum? That's the only way where I could see her as scum partner with Vork.

Zulfy · Post Post #3001 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2019 5:00 pm

why is this so quiet

Titus · Post Post #3002 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2019 5:06 pm

In post 3001, Zulfy wrote:why is this so quiet

I think people are waiting for my VCA but I am sick.

Zulfy · Post Post #3003 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2019 5:17 pm

when you're not sick you're drunk and when you're not drunk you're tired sigh

Titus · Post Post #3004 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2019 5:39 pm

In post 3003, Zulfy wrote:when you're not sick you're drunk and when you're not drunk you're tired sigh

Life of an overworked lawyer. I don't do my VCA lightly unless desperate. It's my calling card.

Zulfy · Post Post #3005 (ISO) » Thu May 30, 2019 8:36 pm

Fair enough

Dr Easy Bake · Post Post #3006 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 5:10 am

In post 3002, Titus wrote:
In post 3001, Zulfy wrote:why is this so quiet
I think people are waiting for my VCA but I am sick.

Club Penguin Power!

Zulfy · Post Post #3007 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 10:46 am

Dude why are you voting me

Skellen · Post Post #3008 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:00 am

Yeah, after some rereading I am more inclined to think that scum have no daychat and that Vork just messed up on D2 and jumped the gun when FL claimed his guilty on S_S. So far the best way to explain his illogical behaviour. This assumption would also solidify town!FL. But I need to review FL (and DEB) yet. It also makes Zulfy's potential "slip" in #1928 more relevant.

Some food regarding Vork/Zulfy is imo #1203, where Vork asks what to do if Zulfy turns out to be a PR. Zulfy was at L-2 at that time and during his D1 inactivity phase

before

Zulfy showed up and claimed for the first time he was a PR. Before that we already got that (#1190) from Vork where he was nervous of a premature hammer on Zulfy (well and Titus). Zulfy's #1295 also fits well in it, even although he voted Vork just three posts later out of survivalism.

Skellen · Post Post #3009 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:01 am

I am a little afraid I have entered a Zulfy/Una tunnel at this point, but still.

What is imo interesting between Vork and Una is that Vork began at one point to scumread Una, but never really did anything about it. It was even a pretty generic case like mostly "he plays exactly like in our last scum game, read the scum PT etc" which he could never really back up with anything substantial. He only sheeped Ausuka for a short while on this just to abandon the wagon before Ausuka unvoted for some pointless vote on James/Succinct. Which is strange as he never got tired to point out that he is scumreading him and would like to vote him like in awkward posts like #1459. At D2 Vork neglected Una completely despite his scumread, I think he only dropped once for another time how he would like to vote him again.

Another point regarding Una himself. I didn't understood the Succinct lynch on D2, in fact besides FL no one really gave a reason why they lynched Succinct. Anyway Una started this wagon and I don't get why. He said he would like to lynch him over me (although my points also went down and there was already a wagon on me). He never said anything about Succinct before that would indicate he was scumreading him, indeed the James/Succinct slot was one of his three strongest townreads on D1. Una, can you explain why you voted Succinct? Also why him over me or DEB?

Skellen · Post Post #3010 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:01 am

As for the nightkill I disagree with FL, who said that the Creature kill indicates me/DEB.

In post 2861, Creature wrote:I'm tempted to say Zulfy and Debbie are two scum.

In post 2909, Creature wrote:
In post 2904, Flavor Leaf wrote:Yeah, Skellen’s like conf scum too based on Vorkuta’s actions.
Skellen claimed S_S's N1 fruit though.

Creature was suspecting Zulfy/DEB at EoD3 and was inclined to believe in my fruit claim if I got him right. Therefore he might have been an hindrance for scum to mislynch me instead of a help.

However he might have ended up as kill, because one Mason simply had to die. Was looking through Sky's D3 ISO for shits and giggles, but didn't found any noteworthy reads that might tell why Creature and not her.

Skellen · Post Post #3011 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:01 am

@Sky:
Talk to me~.

You seem to be reliable regarding setup stuff, what is your take on two similar roles like loyal/disloyal Fruit Vendors?

Also what do you think of FL's gated Roleblocker idea? While we are at it, how would a gated Roleblocker even work? Wiki says nothing about such constellations.

ISO · Post Post #3012 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:07 am

not sure if i'd ever call myself reliable regarding setup spec

the only times ive rlly heavily pushed setup spec is as scum

loyal/disloyal has a nice symmetry/synergy but thats 3 invests + 2 masons if zulfy/FL are both telling the truth and im not sure how i'd feel about that ??

gated roleblock could b something like x-shot or even night or odd night and like aaa lemme think

ISO · Post Post #3013 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:11 am

town zulfy cant rlly give any clears, just corroborates night action stuff

occam's razor says FL's claim is just town unless scum had info about the loyal fv ahead of time or it was a gambit to get SS to out themselves that just happened to synergize with the loyal fv

hrmm

ISO · Post Post #3014 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 11:12 am

creature rlly wanted FL last night

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #3015 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 12:30 pm

In CatArt Creature was a mason who scum read me the night before he died too.

I was town then died the next night over the last living mason.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #3016 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 12:34 pm

Skellen’s playing up hard to me, and I don’t really like it, especially because it’s kind of working, but then I see him still leaving me open if people lean that way.

I think we actually should go within Zulfy/Titus today because we have a mislynch.

Unless it’s 4 scum total.

Titus · Post Post #3017 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:21 pm

In post 3014, Skygazer wrote:creature rlly wanted FL last night

? Wanted how?

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #3018 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:21 pm

In post 3017, Titus wrote:
In post 3014, Skygazer wrote:creature rlly wanted FL last night
? Wanted how?

Creature and I have a giant romantic story.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #3019 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:22 pm

He probably couldn’t narrow down who scum was so he got paranoid and thought I was scum pulling a fast one.

Titus · Post Post #3020 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:43 pm

In post 3019, Flavor Leaf wrote:He probably couldn’t narrow down who scum was so he got paranoid and thought I was scum pulling a fast one.

I have a huge problem with believing both you and Zulfy are town. Balance. How do scum win a setup like that?

Titus · Post Post #3021 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:44 pm

You might both be but it is a hurdle.

Titus · Post Post #3022 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:44 pm

I'll chew on this in urgent care.

Flavor Leaf · Post Post #3023 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 1:48 pm

In post 3020, Titus wrote:
In post 3019, Flavor Leaf wrote:He probably couldn’t narrow down who scum was so he got paranoid and thought I was scum pulling a fast one.
I have a huge problem with believing both you and Zulfy are town. Balance. How do scum win a setup like that?

Fake guilties and innos.

That’s where I’m at too, which is why I’m leaning towards wanting you or Zulfy dead today.

Once myself or SS claimed, if scum have a Roleblocker, we essentially become useless. Voyeur can semi handle that, but I think we were closer to a breaking strategy moreso, but that relies on zulfytown to be a breaking strategy.

Skellen · Post Post #3024 (ISO) » Fri May 31, 2019 2:47 pm

In post 3013, Skygazer wrote:town zulfy cant rlly give any clears, just corroborates night action stuff

occam's razor says FL's claim is just town unless scum had info about the loyal fv ahead of time or it was a gambit to get SS to out themselves that just happened to synergize with the loyal fv

hrmm

Yes, that's also how I feel about it. The timing of the claim speaks rather for town!FL and he kind of implied already on D1 that he would prove his alignment soon.

The only thing that makes me nervous about his role is that between disloyal Fruit Vendor and Voyeur the former is easier to fake. Otherwise it would be as you said a really lucky shot to come up with the fitting fakeclaim. Some points in Vork's ISO however strongly suggest he and FL aren't a team together. I will get to that tomorrow or on Sunday.

Zulfy also got one time pretty specific when he said that Bins handles the results differently as he would have expected. Although this can be just some sneaky bullshit.