Large Normal 220: Jazz Mafia [Game Over!]

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, he scumread me from day one and didnt check me. Scumslip la

^

This is borderline a scum claim, and I’ve been starting to lean scum on Creature, but I know I can’t read him very well, but Creature checks me Night 1 as well in games.

[Saudade]

No one has proposed a better alternative with a case

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, I know TLK in real life, and he knows I BS, so it makes sense he’d check me Night 1. It also clears me, so I don’t think that’s solid scum play unless he’s trying to take me down with him.

I think even if he is scum, it’s best to get him tomorrow to get that other result/fake result out of him.

If he ends up greening, then we have 2 results we can rely on.

[Skygazer]

VC 3.11

The Last Knight (5): BrightEyedFish, Vorkuta, Saudade, NerfedBuJ, Creature
NerfedBuJ (4): Flavor Leaf, The Last Knight, Baezu, ofrhz
Something_Smart (2): Lil Uzi Vert, Enigma

Vot Noting (2): rosterfoster, Something_Smart

With 13 alive, it take 7 to lynch. Day 3 will end in (expired on 2019-06-10 18:00:00).

Mod notes: hi!!!!

[Creature]

Eh, he scumread me from day one and didnt check me. Scumslip la

^

This is borderline a scum claim, and I’ve been starting to lean scum on Creature, but I know I can’t read him very well, but Creature checks me Night 1 as well in games.

I don't know who you referring to?

[Flavor Leaf]

You yourself have checked me Night 1, so the fact you were stating it was bad if TLK to not check Saudade is poor because he checked me.

Is that not a fine check?

Also, there is zero reason to ever go TLK today, and pushing there is just bad. He’s a claimed Odd-night Gunsmith.

It is always worth letting that through for the potential he greens.

[Flavor Leaf]

The fact that his wagon is the main wagon here and not the counterwagon shows Scum want that wagon to go through. I bet the remaining scum are on him right now. Never zero. There’s at least 1.

[NerfedBuJ]

Not confirming and denying is basically confirming.

I'm 99% sure of that because knowing vorkuta he could surprise me.
But basically that just makes sense to me.

So this is absolutely a terrible cop check. He can only live with mason confirmation. As soon as 1 mason is dead we force the other to confirm or deny for saudade for sure.

This should all be obvious anyway but it's irrelevant. More and more interactions between FL and TLK are just subtly off. They sound like good strategies if you skim, but as soon as you actually read them they're so obviously wrong.

And I don't think it's a difference of opinion, it's a difference of alignment.

I could inderstand people not agreeing with me if I were saying controversial stuff, but I'm not. I've pretty much been resorting to tried-and-tested-invented-by-better-minds-than-mine mafia 101 knowledge and it has already worked twice.

There's no need to make this game more complicated than it is. Especially when we've lynched 2 scum already and scum have to kill like what .. 5? days in a row just to get rid of all the

claimed

PRs, not to mention any who may have remained quiet.

[The Last Knight]

Eh, he scumread me from day one and didnt check me. Scumslip la

You're in a game with FL

[NerfedBuJ]

Let's summarize for the lazy:

As far as I can tell FL townreads every player who claimed a PR. (Or at the very least he doesn't want them lynched).

He thinks he and tlk are so obvtown that lynching tlk right now to confirm both of them is so anti-town that people pushing tlk and tlk's counterwagons MUST be scum.

So really tell me the truth everyone.. who's scummier..

Me or the person who is so hesitant to lynch 1 of FIVE PRs he townreads even though it would confirm his own alignment to everyone?

[The Last Knight]

Do people really want me to check Saudade?

I just feel like there are better ways of checking him and also other people that are more mysterious I can get checks on.

[NerfedBuJ]

I'll he honest, I scumread FL so strongly that even if tlk flips town gunsmith I'll have my doubts on FL being town.

But even I will be forced to townread FL at that point.
Hence why I've switched to voting and pushing tlk instead of flavor.

But noo tlk lynch is wrong and anti-town lol

Pedit - definitely not.. I see absolutely no reason why vorkuta and enigma would not condemn and push saudade aggressively if saudade were not mason with them

[NerfedBuJ]

But you should be lynched anyway so it'a a moot point.

[The Last Knight]

FIVE PRs

The 5 are?

Me: gunsmith
Bef: motion detector
Vork/Enigma/Saudade: masons

Or is SS as Traffic Analyst in there somewhere?

Because there's also a fruit vendor too...

[NerfedBuJ]

Yeah I dunno the exact number I just remember it's around that

[NerfedBuJ]

Fruit vendor is the one I forgot.. you named the ones I was vaguely thinking about

[The Last Knight]

definitely not.. I see absolutely no reason why vorkuta and enigma would not condemn and push saudade aggressively if saudade were not mason with them

Ugh this is a good point and makes me feel dumb. But I still have my gut feeling...

I guess the most likely reason for Vork/Enigma and Saudade to ignore each other is that they actually are in the same masonry.

But I just can't let go of the possibility that either/all of Vork/Enigma or Saudade to be faking their claims.

I am pushing Saudade because I have real pings about him but I did stop voting him because he seems like the less optimal lynch, even though I do still see value in it.

But yeah you make a good point. It just leaves out the wifom.

[Flavor Leaf]

Let's summarize for the lazy:

As far as I can tell FL townreads every player who claimed a PR. (Or at the very least he doesn't want them lynched).

He thinks he and tlk are so obvtown that lynching tlk right now to confirm both of them is so anti-town that people pushing tlk and tlk's counterwagons MUST be scum.

So really tell me the truth everyone.. who's scummier..

Me or the person who is so hesitant to lynch 1 of FIVE PRs he townreads even though it would confirm his own alignment to everyone?

This is a blatant misrep.

Where are the players that claimed PR? There’s like one, and it’s from a slot I’ve been calling scum all game, and I even stated you can lynch there tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also have clearly stated that i don’t believe Saudade is mason, but he’s probably town.

[Flavor Leaf]

So how come I’m being singled out when in reality the majority of players are town reading just as many of the PR’s if not more, than i am.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could see Buj as tunneling town, tbh, but I feel he could be scum trying to get that to be a thing too, if that makes sense.

Scum tend to like tunneling me for that reason because it distracts me and makes them come off as town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Vorkuta in Musicals.

[NerfedBuJ]

So how come I’m being singled out when in reality the majority of players are town reading just as many of the PR’s if not more, than i am.

1. Your friend TLK named the PRs in question.

2. The majority of players aren't opposing TLK's lynch today.

3. The majority of players haven't been cleared by TLK.

Not a misrep, not singling you out, not tunnelling.

[NerfedBuJ]

Let's ignore all that.. I'll give you another juicy case against you you can try to defend yourself from.

You have pushed the towniest 2 living players in the game (saudade and I). The fact that you can see us as town doesn't change that fact.

You've even now started shading the 3rd towniest living player in the game, creature. Not shading ceature when he was scummy, sheepy, and lurky. But shading creature now when he started defending me.

The case against you really just writes itself.
And the truth is even if you flip town next game you pull something like this off I'll still push you.
Because I do not believe in "too scummy to be scum". I don't believe in "he's too good at scum to do this" (which is basically the same as point number 1, but slightly different). I don't believe in complicated gambitting that creates unnecessary conflict and maybe tricks scum 2% of the time.

I see something scummy, I assume it comes from scum. I don't make excuses for it.

And yes maybe once a month I'll mislynch someone like Vedith or Elsa. But 9/10 times I'll catch scum.

Despite this you can ask A50 how many times I've mislynched him as town. I may have forgotten one or two but as far as I recall it's 0 times. Because gambitting is not inherently scummy, it just has to make sense and have more reward than risk. It has to be complemented by pro-town arguments and logical reads.

[Creature]

You've even now started shading the 3rd towniest living player in the game, creature.

When did I become the 3rd towniest?