open 759: house party (compleded)

[Fuscosco]

Actually, I imagine scum have daychat, so Ill be interesting in seeing who is cliching up with whom.

[Golden RASpberry]

I mean the partywolf only gets stronger as the game goes on; so if not yet, then when?

nah, they get weaker because they cant kill without outing.

we lynch to clear scum from one group.
from our point of view the scum in the party is obvious. there are two scum off-party. once the on-party scum is dead the party becomes powerful

if we lynch for scum off-party we also leave the people within the party (our towncore) exposed to scum NKs and the people outside (the lynchpool) bp. that's like the opposite of what we want.

[Fuscosco]

Okay.

Lets remind people that no one person will win us the game.
NKs are going to happen.
None of us are conftown.
Trading one 'really townish player' for a definite, mod-outed scum is a good trade.
Trading and IC for a scum is a good trade.

No one player is worth backing down for.
Why is everyone so interested in trying to quarantine players?

[Golden RASpberry]

I agree - EAF is our strongest scumread.
If we can get an all-town party out of lynching him, that's just a nice bonus.

[Inbred Lannisters]

I really suck at the whole charisma/persuasion thing and I’ve lost count of how many games town has lost because of that.

FWIW Nancy I feel like you're doing great this game

The only universe where adding tw to the party is detrimental to town, is the one where party is all town and tw is scum. In every other case it's +EV

So anyone against adding tw, please do explain your townreads of people in the party and scumread (or lack of tr) on tw.

-Joff

+1

~T

[Inbred Lannisters]

Titus are you all in for a {EAF, fusco, duppin, IL} towncore?

For today, yes.

say we have two slots outside the party who are likely to be town. they're systematically night-killed until we reach lylo. How do you propose we use the party mechanic to threaten scum at all?

Equal random parties. I lost that fight.

That being said, we look more at those buddying IL. If scum are outside, they gotta con him or add a scum. We resist adding anyone for this reason.

The game is large enough we can look at the opinions of who died. I've been too tired to do that.

No, we need to protect obvtown.

~T

[Inbred Lannisters]

Gee, If only I didnt have over a hundred plus games of experience and any number of which were askew because town fucked up and played with their hearts.

Lucky for you, there’s obvtown actually playing with their goddamned heads in this game.




~Tyrion

[Inbred Lannisters]

Gee, If only I didnt have over a hundred plus games of experience and any number of which were askew because town fucked up and played with their hearts.

Yeah. I am the heartless bitch strategist. Ask Nancy. Common sense ain't evidence.

When in doubt, you can rarely misstep with common sense.

Tw is both obvtown by play and by meta and it’s common sense to make sure scum doesn’t kill him. Only one way to ensure that. I think we both know what that is.

~T

[Inbred Lannisters]

And it doesnt matter, because we shouldnt add players.

Scum may not concede over not getting a spot in the party, but they sure as sin want to set a precedent for adding players into the party or lynching within it.
They also may have a spot. Or two. Or three. Or four. Doesnt matter, thats wifom under the bridge. We have a stratagem, why are we changing it.

Because your strategy is conditional on alltown being in the party and if you’re wrong, we’re fucked.

~T

[Inbred Lannisters]

Lets just add everyone to the hood!

Or we could just

add only consensus obvtown.

But who care about logic, right?

~T

[Fuscosco]

logic is mechanical.

you are not.

therefore . . . logic=|=you

[Inbred Lannisters]

Also I see that the meta players have overpopulated this site. I am

Come off it m8y.

Meta is a tool
So is VCA


Tools are useful, and they have their places in a game.

only a tool to judge playstyle but people use it to judge alignment most of the time which only works against bad players imo.

Meta works best as a backup method to common sense.

If someone’s play is clearly AI then you can use meta to back it up but if meta contradicts actual play, then you need to be very careful. VCA is better, since that is fact based.

The more good tools are used, the higher the read accuracy.

~T

[duppin]

I'm not sure why you are suggesting that I am not trying to engage you, this started by me questioning your Sky read.

just noting my call to action was for you to engage with me at a level deeper than "hey ducky what's your ___ read" like I can cough up some nonsense convincing read as either alignment so you're not gonna sort me with that shit

Sure, but seems to imply there would be no follow up. I asked you to explain your scumread and your answer was for me to explain the town read. Let's not pretend you weren't doing the exact same thing you are accusing me of. The main point was that we disagreed about Sky which was why I wanted to engage you about that.

I really dislike that you are now suggesting that I might be scum no matter what Sky's alignment is - not because I think it's wrong of you to reach that conclusion if you are town, in fact it bothered me that that was not the first thing you went with because I think as town you should be more worried about me trying to pocket Sky with a defense you think is bad.

*slowly bends self into pretzel*
just to clarify fmpov: you think I'm scum because I read you as possible wolf equity with someone I'm scumreading and at the time because I was heavily scumreading her, in the eat of the moment I didn't decide to sit back and think about a world where she was town and what your alignment would be in that world then later reconsidered unprompted and came to the conclusion...which you think town!me should come to...?

No let me elaborate;
The reason I thought you were scummy was because you initially pushed a hard scumread on Sky and I then said I still had my leaning town read on her and questioned the read. You then said my reasoning for finding her town was terrible which in it self is perfectly fair, but then you provided a readlist saying me and Sky were scum. It does not really matter if you put a questionmark next to me I am unsure as to what your point is, because the fact is you did put me under your scumreads and as you have later clarified you did think I was likely a wolf. You also clearly said before this that whoever gave the bad defense of her were likely scum.
So you obviously had some kind of scumread on me.

I don't have a problem with you scumreading me, my issue was your logic. You thought my townread on her was terrible yet you reach the conclusion that we are scumbuddies based on that. Sure it might be a possibility but it seems really unlikely. It's such a basic read that I had a very hard time believing you actually thought that was the case. I think the most obvious thing you should have concluded from that was that perhaps I was scum trying to pocket her which was why I had what you considered to be a bad townread on her. You then later said you did have this and that you believe I could be scum regardless of Sky's alignment, but I think if that is the case then your vote should have been on me. It doesn't matter how you try to twist it, if you think I am likely to be wolf no matter what then it makes more sense to flip me first from your point of view. I think the fact that you would choose Sky over me in this case sounds more to me like it is an attempt at chainlynching. I think that would be a pretty poor play so maybe it's not fair me to call you out for reaching what I think is a pretty lackluster conclusion only to do the same.

There is also definitely bias from me as I have already admitted, but given that I find Sky town and know I am town I disliked your push evenmore.

I'm sorry if I worked through it slightly slower than you were looking for but again, I don't think you're paying a lot of attention to my trajectory on my read of you defending skygazer. you just said you expect town!me to reach the conclusion which town!me reached, unprompted, once my tunnel softened.

tl;dr:
me yesterday: lol scumgazer, look for buddies
me today: ???gazer, look for wolves whether she's one or not

It has nothing to do with being slightly slower or anything. I simply commented on what you posted and I thought it was scummy.
Yes I did indeed state that it would make sense for you to reach that conclusion, but I'm not sure what your point is. I still reacted to what you posted.

But the reason I dislike it is because if you feel that then your vote should be on me plus it makes me lean more towards the idea that you are attempting to setup a chainlynch.

Both of these suggestions are attributing motive to my posting rather than trying to discern the motive in my posting. And once again you have paid no attention to why I included you in the scumread tier if my readlist marked with a question mark. I didn't vote you and am not voting you because I don't want to yet. I never chain lynches, my mood changes with the wind.

Yes of course they are attributing motive to your posting, that is pretty much what happens all the time. As I said before I don't think the question mark really matters as a) you were clearly indicating I was scum before I engaged you, b) you did put me under scum. Putting a question mark does not change anything for me because from my point of view you are still pushing the same logic. And I was having a difficult time seeing how you would reach these conclusions as town even if Sky ends up being scum.

If you're town I need you to stop the bias. I kind of understand how town!you could be reaching this level of confbias and epic failing the read, but it is kinda hard to tell this from an endangered wolf who needs to retaliate against a vocal townie replacing into a slot he has pegged for a mislynch.

I frankly don't think I would ever need to do that if I was scum? But that's pretty irrelevant

[Inbred Lannisters]

im keeping my tw heal and gonna stop fighting this and let other ppl decide

It is 100% protown to sheep this heal. It only helps town to add consensus obvtown to the party.

~T

[duppin]

duppin if ur still TRing or townreading IL then me then trust me that this is probs town tw

It is definitely possible my read was completely wrong. I can see both Inbred and you are very confident he is town.
I will certainly take Inbred's opinion into consideration since I am very confident they are town. As for you, if you are town then great and if you are scum then he is most likely town anyway, so fair enough.

I will do this for now.
UNVOTE:

[Inbred Lannisters]

Sky's still a good lynch is why

i have tw as extremely strong town and dont want him to be NK'd

adding players to the party narrows the scum outside the party pool nyways

Sky voting to heal tw is blatantly protown.

I am opposed to lynching anyone who’s onboard with this.

One thing I’ve rarely ever seen scum do is play against their wincon and if Sky is scum here, then his healing tw, would be exactly that.

~T

[duppin]

I can't help but feel that if we are to put someone in the party then everyone in the party already should at least agree on who to put.

If everyone in the party is already town then great, a high probability they will pick another town if everyone agrees.
If there is a scum in the party, then he is unlikely to pick another scum as having two scum in the party isn't optimal, which means scum would probably push for another townie if they needed to.

However with that said I definitely agree with Fus' concern. As of right now I would also not be willing to put TW's slot in the party

[Inbred Lannisters]

im tired of mech-talk and lowkey hate mech-talk and im gonna let nancy beat people over the head w this rather than waste more of my energy fighting this

I think I might have too, anything short of that gets ignored in my experience. :/

If anyone cares, Joff is like one of the most paranoid town players on this site and the fact that we’re 100% in agreement on this, speaks freaking volumes.

~T

[Inbred Lannisters]

im keeping my tw heal and gonna stop fighting this and let other ppl decide

Why is the purpose of adding?

#sideeye

If I had a slight doubt to my tw read, I would be against adding too. Tw is not going to get lynched and scum will 100% nk because of that.

That’s what I’m afraid of, Kirai NK pretty much proved that.

~T

[CheekyTeeky]

If everyone in the party is already town then great, a high probability they will pick another town if everyone agrees.

You're assuming town don't have bad reads.

[Inbred Lannisters]

actually having obvious town outside of the party is proscum

Because scum outside the party can kill them. Rn, scum is ONLY going to kill outside of party, because there is nothing to stop them.

~T

[duppin]

If everyone in the party is already town then great, a high probability they will pick another town if everyone agrees.

You're assuming town don't have bad reads.

Sure they have, but I think it is more likely for 4 town to share a townread on an actual town than on a scum, but it is definitely not impossible

[CheekyTeeky]

However with that said I definitely agree with Fus' concern. As of right now I would also not be willing to put TW's slot in the party

Iirc fus is of the opinion that if we lynch from the party then it should be ok to add to it. Since we're lynching EAF we could add TW depending on people being on board with the lynch.

I think the main concern is that the party needs to stay small to be of any use.

[CheekyTeeky]

If everyone in the party is already town then great, a high probability they will pick another town if everyone agrees.

You're assuming town don't have bad reads.

Sure they have, but I think it is more likely for 4 town to share a townread on an actual town than on a scum, but it is definitely not impossible

Weird reasoning but ok.

[Inbred Lannisters]

im keeping my tw heal and gonna stop fighting this and let other ppl decide

Why is the purpose of adding?

#sideeye

If I had a slight doubt to my tw read, I would be against adding too. Tw is not going to get lynched and scum will 100% nk because of that.

As opposed to me? Or others? Consensus TR isn't a lock. We need to show correct as well.

We shouldn't add anyone. Force scum to make a move.

A “move”? Like perhaps confitowning tw by killing him? Because whether you realize it or not, that is precisely what your resistance to adding him, will probably accomplish.

~T