In post 2015, Titus wrote:Disagree. We lose the guarantee of where scum are. We have no reason objectively to think anyone is better than anyone else. Scum want to add players to the party. It creates wifom.
By adding someone, they can forever doubt cast tw for every failed lynch. They can say he's the infection causing the problem.
If there's a possibility the party is all town, we refuse. Scum flail getting more and more desperate to add.
Adding technically denies the knowledge that scum must be in the non party as well, but there's likely two.
1. Still - we're almost never lynching TW anyway. He's objectively being near consensus townread. Assume he's NK'd: What would your reads be?
2. Adding someone to the party is something my slot proposed - in your hypothetical it's more likely they would've tried to do that before we proposed this.
3. In the much likelier case we're not all town in the party, scum would want to keep things this way.
-Joff
+1
Serious point, for anyone familiar with both Auro’s and my meta. We both play the game very differently and for us to be 100% mindmelding on something, means it’s correct, because that almost never happens.
~T
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 2015, Titus wrote:Disagree. We lose the guarantee of where scum are. We have no reason objectively to think anyone is better than anyone else. Scum want to add players to the party. It creates wifom.
By adding someone, they can forever doubt cast tw for every failed lynch. They can say he's the infection causing the problem.
If there's a possibility the party is all town, we refuse. Scum flail getting more and more desperate to add.
Adding technically denies the knowledge that scum must be in the non party as well, but there's likely two.
1. Still - we're almost never lynching TW anyway. He's objectively being near consensus townread. Assume he's NK'd: What would your reads be?
2. Adding someone to the party is something my slot proposed - in your hypothetical it's more likely they would've tried to do that before we proposed this.
3. In the much likelier case we're not all town in the party, scum would want to keep things this way.
-Joff
1) ask yourself why? Has anything gone right? We picked a suboptimal setup. We lynched town. Someone's infected you. Someone w more time than me.
If tw us nked I would need to compare his EoD stance to the n1 no. I'd look for matching scumread. Obvtown that are wrong are beneficial for scum to keep alive.
2) no scum would kiss your ass.
3) scum would want to add tw as cover if he's town.
I don’t understand this whole “cover” theory?
~T
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 1882, Skygazer wrote:duppin if ur still TRing or townreading IL then me then trust me that this is probs town tw
It is definitely possible my read was completely wrong. I can see both Inbred and you are very confident he is town.
I will certainly take Inbred's opinion into consideration since I am very confident they are town. As for you, if you are town then great and if you are scum then he is most likely town anyway, so fair enough.
I will do this for now. UNVOTE:
I understand why you were initially skeptical of tw’s Sky push but it pushed her to show her towniness. Mastina did something very similar to my slot in Timeshift. Unfortunately too many lobotomized WOATs ignored both her 180 on our slot and her confitowning, post our flip, so I see it as protown and it’s obvious that tw’s Sky push was townie, since that slot is now obvtowning Sky. Sky is also obvtown now for obvtown reading tw, because she did this BEFORE that slot changed its read on her.
~T
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 1969, Inbred Lannisters wrote:The only universe where adding tw to the party is detrimental to town, is the one where party is all town and tw is scum. In every other case it's +EV
@Titus, Fusco
Titus wrote:We shouldn't add anyone. Force scum to make a move.
What kind of move are you imagining, possible only in the world where tw isn't added?
-Jeff
Disagree. We lose the guarantee of where scum are. We have no reason objectively to think anyone is better than anyone else. Scum want to add players to the party. It creates wifom.
By adding someone, they can forever doubt cast tw for every failed lynch. They can say he's the infection causing the problem.
If there's a possibility the party is all town, we refuse. Scum flail getting more and more desperate to add.
Adding technically denies the knowledge that scum must be in the non party as well, but
there's likely two
.
I don’t believe Titus actually believes this because it is 100% against scum’s wincon to have more than one scum in the party.
~T
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 1837, the worst wrote:ftr: i don't understand the party mechanic and can't be bothered reading about it unless it becomes relevant
out of that pool of players
i expressly do not townread duppin.
fusco is slightly >rand town, penguin probtown with the caveat that if i'm wrong i'll work it out
not sure how to read EAF
In post 1925, the worst wrote:Okay the more I think about the party mechanic the warmer I feel. I'll feel better when I have a more confident read on duppin and
when EAF starts playing the game again
. Presence read suggests he's partyscum so I'm gonna kinda trust him to play a bit harder if he's town in the party.
Fusco I'll have a better read on later but I still feel comfortable vaguely townreading him but.. yeah.. I suddenly feel the need to be more confident there as well..
still fine with IL.
In post 1926, the worst wrote:EAF was here d1 and presenting reads and making noise. Post getting into the party I don't feel like he was very effective. He is currently a lurksack. This suggests to me his intent was to get into the party/be townread, not to find and lynch scum. Not a great read but you asked, so there you go.
In post 2053, Golden RASpberry wrote:however this read is largely Duck-lead, so he’d be much better off explaining that than me.
You've not been really committed to an EAF read: your spoilered progression shows him starting at null-town, and then multiple statements that you're not really sure what to read on EAF, needing him to "start playing". You mention then in 1926 that he looks like he was merely intending to get into the party, and that it's not a great read.
After RAS joins the hydra, this turns into... a 100% confident read? Which would make slightly more sense to me if it was largely RAS-led, but RAS mentions that the read was Duck-led. The progression looks icky. What happened to your Duppin read?
Further, your slot's cases on EAF and Uncle Bob lack the oomph that I'd expect. The EAF-Titus associations can be explained by the fact that Titus is one of the only players EAF has had a lot of experience (even IRL) with; and the second half of your case is on the basis that he's lurking today - which he admitted himself and that he'd post more later.
Actually reading Uncle Bob's ISO doesn't make me go "ahh, the case is totally convincing": there are just 24 posts with a few questions. Am I wrong that RAS goes really specific in his cases?
-Joff
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 2137, Inbred Lannisters wrote:After RAS joins the hydra, this turns into... a 100% confident read? Which would make slightly more sense to me if it was largely RAS-led, but RAS mentions that the read was Duck-led. The progression looks icky.
The EAF & Titus distancing read is what’s Duck-lead, not the whole EAF read itself.
In post 2137, Inbred Lannisters wrote:Further, your slot’s cases on EAF and Uncle Bob lack the oomph that I’d expect. The EAF-Titus associations can be explained by the fact that Titus is one of the only players EAF has had a lot of experience (even IRL) with; and the second half of your case is on the basis that he’s lurking today - which he admitted himself and that he’d post more later.
There are reasons for the lack of “oomph“, but none of those reasons are things that really need to be said in this game.
That said, the case on EAF has nothing with his lack of activity nor do I think he's lurking purposefully. There's a change of behavior after he was added to the party, and a quick skim through his ISO should make that clear.
In post 2137, Inbred Lannisters wrote:Actually reading Uncle Bob’s ISO doesn’t make me go “ahh, the case is totally convincing”: there are just 24 posts with a few questions. Am I wrong that RAS goes really specific in his cases?
There’s a reason I condensed my case. I go specific when I need to, and I didn’t feel the need to go in-depth with my thoughts in my opening post.
You're not wrong, I can be specific. But I took this approach because I didn’t think either cases needed much explaining. There's a severe lack of any real solving and scum-hunting in both of their ISO’s, and it's not something that’s difficult to spot.
In post 2137, Inbred Lannisters wrote:After RAS joins the hydra, this turns into... a 100% confident read? Which would make slightly more sense to me if it was largely RAS-led, but RAS mentions that the read was Duck-led. The progression looks icky.
The EAF & Titus distancing read is what’s Duck-lead, not the whole EAF read itself.
In post 2137, Inbred Lannisters wrote:Further, your slot’s cases on EAF and Uncle Bob lack the oomph that I’d expect. The EAF-Titus associations can be explained by the fact that Titus is one of the only players EAF has had a lot of experience (even IRL) with; and the second half of your case is on the basis that he’s lurking today - which he admitted himself and that he’d post more later.
There are reasons for the lack of “oomph“, but none of those reasons are things that really need to be said in this game.
That said, the case on EAF has nothing with his lack of activity nor do I think he's lurking purposefully. There's a change of behavior after he was added to the party, and a quick skim through his ISO should make that clear.
In post 2137, Inbred Lannisters wrote:Actually reading Uncle Bob’s ISO doesn’t make me go “ahh, the case is totally convincing”: there are just 24 posts with a few questions. Am I wrong that RAS goes really specific in his cases?
There’s a reason I condensed my case. I go specific when I need to, and I didn’t feel the need to go in-depth with my thoughts in my opening post.
You're not wrong, I can be specific. But I took this approach because I didn’t think either cases needed much explaining. There's a severe lack of any real solving and scum-hunting in both of their ISO’s, and it's not something that’s difficult to spot.
In post 2139, Quest wrote:That said, the case on EAF has nothing with his lack of activity nor do I think he's lurking purposefully. There's a change of behavior after he was added to the party, and a quick skim through his ISO should make that clear.
Yes, there is a behavioural change in those posts
but
: I feel like it's not entirely scum-indicative, rather just a lack of real involvement - which is what I mean by activity.
Quest wrote:
You're not wrong, I can be specific. But I took this approach because I didn’t think either cases needed much explaining. There's a severe lack of any real solving and scum-hunting in both of their ISO’s, and it's not something that’s difficult to spot.
Agree but also factor in that in EAF's case, he was playing in a looser, relaxed style + did scum-hunt and sort to a reasonable extent post D1 heal. And in Uncle Bob's case there's a lack of significant posting in the first place - agree that whatever content is there is bad, but since the case is largely based upon a
lack
of expected town-behaviour, I think there's a higher sample size required to make an accurate judgment. How does this slot fare against, say, PenguinPower and Yumeko Jabami?
-Joff
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 2141, Inbred Lannisters wrote:Yes, there is a behavioural change in those posts but: I feel like it’s not entirely scum-indicative, rather just a lack of real involvement - which is what I mean by activity.
Duck & I both disagree with this pretty heavily and neither of us think it’s linked to activity. He was playing to get town-read, and once his goal of getting into the party was accomplished, the behavior change occurred. I don't think that’s a coincidence.
In post 2141, Inbred Lannisters wrote:Agree but also factor in that in EAF’s case, he was playing in a looser, relaxed style + did scum-hunt and sort to a reasonable extent post D1 heal. And in Uncle Bob’s case there’s a lack of significant posting in the first place - agree that whatever content is there is bad, but since the case is largely based upon a lack of expected town-behaviour, I think there’s a higher sample size required to make an accurate judgment. How does this slot fare against, say, PenguinPower and Yumeko Jabami?
I’m confident on my solve being 3/3.
I’m not overly concerned by both PP; who Duck town-reads, and Yumeko; who I town-read. I should add that I town-read duppin too, but that’s a more recent read. Liked 2115, 2119 & 2123.
In post 2142, Golden RASpberry wrote:Duck & I both disagree with this pretty heavily and neither of us think it’s linked to activity. He was playing to get town-read, and once his goal of getting into the party was accomplished, the behavior change occurred. I don't think that’s a coincidence.
So you're bundling Edgar's posts between {D1 heal deadline} and {D1 lynch deadline} too, right from 675 where he prompts us to begin discussing reads, posts a town reads list (653), explaining reads and trying to understand others'.
Right now I'm not seeing a major scum-indicative behaviour change but yeah, I'll give it a more careful read.
-Joff
We are not questioning your logic, we are denying its existence.
In post 2145, Inbred Lannisters wrote:So you're bundling Edgar's posts between {D1 heal deadline} and {D1 lynch deadline} too, right from 675 where he prompts us to begin discussing reads, posts a town reads list (653), explaining reads and trying to understand others'.
Right now I'm not seeing a major scum-indicative behaviour change but yeah, I'll give it a more careful read.
There's a behavior change between before and after the party members were decided yesterday, yes.
That said, I wouldn't put so much focus on the behavior change by itself. There are other things from that slot that are bothersome; lack of game solving, lack of scum-hunting, needless filler and a weird undertone.
The read progression on PP seemed weird. Like EAF starts out pocketing PP D1 then looks busy pushing PP D1 when people start shading PPs slot. I can't tell if it's SvS or SvT though.
