Mini 2079 - Guns & Roses [Game Over]

[Haschel Cedricson]

Dive delayed until tomorrow for medical reasons.

[Something_Smart]

s_s, why do you say "all of the scums kills" in post 400? are you treating it as certain that there are 1/2 mafia d1 guns?

I think it's very likely there's at least one, yes.

If I were scum I'd never have picked anything but a N1 gun.

[Something_Smart]

dissolved like...half of my town read on s_s. it's a real bad post!

Knowing I'm town aside, I still don't get this at all. What's bad about that post?

[hitogoroshi]

you did a bunch of "pops is either scum or he isn't" equivocations and then asked for meta clarifications from the dude voting him. clearly Pine isn't going to say "pops meta means that he's totally town for those reasons", so directly asking him to weigh on your nothing post looks an awful lot like you're hoping he throws out whatever comment about "pops scum could fake X" so you can say "okay Pine I will vote for pops but only if I can clearly point to you and say it's your fault when he green flips".

[Something_Smart]

Well, yeah. If Pine claims to have a strong meta scumread on pops that turns out wrong, he should be the one receiving blame for it, not the people who sheeped him-- and I support that whether I'm town or scum.

If you're suggesting that I was baiting Pine into making a meta case that I could jump on later, I didn't really have any idea whether his scumread on pops was meta based, and if it wasn't, it's not like he'd turn around and say it actually was.

You've got a good point that asking the guy who's scumreading pops for an unbiased description of his meta is problematic, but I only asked Pine because he said before that he had experience with pops.

[Cephrir]

i probably need to start efforting at some point but usually by this point i've naturally developed reads that feel firmer than jello soup.

hitogoroshi - i really think he's scumhunting with a lot of nuance, even if i don't always agree, but i don't know if i have a great handle on how good he is at faking this. this would be a place i could expend some effort.
popsofctown - i still like the tone unless this person has a history of enjoying scum, but my one game of meta is them being caught reasonably easily iirc
implosion - tends to be one of those pile of nonmemorable words type players for me, but this is not unusual for him
Something_Smart - i don't have a strong opinion on this at the moment
cyanjet justincase1017 - if this slot's scum i fucking suck at mafia
Pine Kml100 - meh
Cephrir SaeWat - not very good at this game
Lady Lambdadelta - i hate it when you don't obvtown could you please do that
Haschel Cedricson Agoodcivilian555 - meh.... it's sort of like he's playing his own game but that strikes me as in character

Vote Pine?

[Cephrir]

actually i'm going to VOTE: LLD on the grounds that she hasn't caught me any scum yet.

[Pine]

Okay, it’s pretty clear I’m not going anywhere with my pops vote. You guys are fucking blind.

I’d vote LLD, but I think that’d put her to L-1 and I don’t want to do so without a chance for further discussion.

UNVOTE:

LLD is on notice[/b

[Something_Smart]

Okay, it’s pretty clear I’m not going anywhere with my pops vote. You guys are fucking blind.

That's a great way to get people to listen to you...

[Pine]

Not really, but I’ve tried logic and explaining myself. A little frustrated by the nonsense TRs on him.

[Something_Smart]

Engage the people townreading him, then, and find and pick apart their reasons.

It seems to me like the majority of your case is in 399, correct? Is there anything that you see in pops that differentiates scum going for easy targets with town going for easy targets?

[popsofctown]

I think my early townreads on ceph and pops still feel good to me. Haschel i don't know how to interact with because he's playing this weird game where he kind of does things at the fringe of everything and he's done things that make me feel both directions as well. S_S is kind of a gut read at this point but my gut says he's town kind of strongly? that might change tomorrow.

In fact, the only real effort I can see is against a popular target (S_S) and two absentees (xyzzy and I.)

You and xyzzy were basically collectively holding the game up yesterday. Why shouldn't town go after you, particularly in a setup with only two scum?

Because being absent site-wide (non-games do not count, there's a very different investment metric) is NAI. It's usually due to life, and I would think you'd respect my game enough to know that intentional lurking like that isn't really a worthwhile strategy. Especially if it were to start backfiring.

Yes, absentees need pressure to get back in the game, but that comes from the mod in the form of prods. Throwing shade and votes is an ineffective method for catching the attention of someone who isn't current on the gamestate, and will therefore not actually receive the message. Pressure-voting lurkers is a garbage strategy for Town.

What investment metric does queueing for additional games track on.

[popsofctown]

That's wasn't supposed to multiquote that implosion post just pine pjhhone posting is hard

[popsofctown]

I played with him in like 2011 :p

i actually kind of remember him being obvtown (w/ both of us being town) in that game. Not really relevant 8ish years later though.

Lol implo I actually deepwolfed that game, I think I might have left you alive to lose LyLo. I'm not 100% so you might wanna go check.

This is probably terrible for my slot to point this out but I think it'd be a dumb way to win if you had my meta wrong. I would check myself if I was not on phoneposting.

[popsofctown]

Implosion: what bucket do you have cyanjet in?

[implosion]

Not really, but I’ve tried logic and explaining myself. A little frustrated by the nonsense TRs on him.

Okay... but like i also gave logic and explained myself and you responded partially with

I can respect that. Honestly, my case against him is pretty circumstantial.

and then you talked a bunch about PoE, which is not a good reason to scumread popsofctown-in-particular. I understand you're saying you have a lot of confidence but I can't tell if you actually feel that strongly about pops as scum or if you are trying to convince yourself that he's scum because you can't find enough other people to be scum or if you're just scum and this is a ruse, because idk how your mindset is going from "i think pops is scum and here's why" logic to "it's okay, we'll level on him later" acceptance to "you guys are fucking blind" frustration. I don't understand the alisae kill at all if you are scum but this just doesn't grok well.

Lol implo I actually deepwolfed that game, I think I might have left you alive to lose LyLo. I'm not 100% so you might wanna go check.

You could be thinking of a different game. But I looked at my ISO a bit in that one and:

Also, to all the people saying pops is scum, I've frankly had a towntell on him since the beginning of day one, and still do.

aaayy
so clearly, i could read pops flawlessly in 2011 and my ability to read him has probably only gotten better since then?

Implosion: what bucket do you have cyanjet in?

I see the reasoning for townreading, and at least semi-buy it, but don't feel strongly/don't have them as that high a priority to sort because there are slots I expect to be active that I am conflicted about. The last sentence of their last post is a fucking weird thing to say as scum.

[implosion]

The hito catch on s_s is really interesting and maybe gives hito some townpoints but probably doesn't actually really because it's definitely something he can notice as scum. I don't think it's that large a slight against S_S given what his playstyle seems to be (or at least, people saying that this is his normal playstyle as both alignments), shrug.

[Something_Smart]

The last sentence of their last post is a fucking weird thing to say as scum.

Jesus that's a bizarre thing to say as any alignment. How did I miss that before.

[implosion]

Eh haschel could also just be scum. There's actually a pretty big pool of people who could be scum right now. Even ignoring the people who have shaky-but-real reasons to think they're town like cyanjet there's lld, hito, probably haschel, maybe S_S, my townreads are actually probably not as solid as I viscerally feel like they are

[Pine]

What investment metric does queueing for additional games track on.

Okay look, you’ve brought that up before and I ignored it. Signing up for a new game is zero investment. Or rather, it’s a promise for future investment. I was invited by PM to the game, it took me literally less time and effort than this post.

This is my point, guys. Pops is making cheap shot straw man arguments.

[popsofctown]

I'm just really irritated by it.

[popsofctown]

At a bare minimum you could effing do "hey guys still haven't found time to catch up here" and "/in" in the same session on the site. Like, in that order. Someone inviting you to a game doesn't commit you to even three characters for that game, confirming your role to fakegod in this one did, and it's not 100% about what role I thought you confirmes to fakegod really

[Something_Smart]

People have weird motivations for posting or not posting. There's no need to go into it unless you think he strategically dodged the game as scum, which hardly sounds like a smart idea, nor does it sound like something someone who prefers scum would do.

He's here now, please drop it. Feel free to bring it up postgame if you want to admonish him for it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, it’s pretty clear I’m not going anywhere with my pops vote. You guys are fucking blind.

I’d vote LLD, but I think that’d put her to L-1 and I don’t want to do so without a chance for further discussion.

UNVOTE:

LLD is on notice[/b

Yeah the earlier shade that was mostly discredit and not really much of a read on anything + this cowardice in placing a vote makes me pretty confident in this.

Vote:Pine

My dude can't even fake it right. He doesn't think I'm scum, rather it feels like he knows I'm not and he's

terrified to engage me properly

for fear of me rallying on him. I mean Hito's on the edge with him, he's not exactly in a great position of town cred, he didn't show up yesterday despite my vote which I was willing to write off but with this context feels like it could have been calculated due to the fact his absence makes the Xyzzy lynch inevitable without blood on his hands?

Too much circumstantial and personality based evidence to ignore. Pine feels like he needs to be scum here, trying to organize a lynch of a player who could wake up from her stupor and swing the game at any time.

I believe he genuinely respects me, that's why I think he's scum. Otherwise he wouldn't pussy foot around my wagon twice, yet encourage others to read me as scum. He's trying to be hands off.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ahhh

Vote: Pine