Mini 2079 - Guns & Roses [Game Over]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also I found scum Cephrir, if you were waiting for it.

Also like, effort is hard, and I need to use effort to obv-town. I'm trying b'y.

[Cyanjet]

Holy shit I actually survived

To be honest, I thought at one point that Pops was scum based on how he/she responded to my post, but after finally reading through the old posts and what's happened since the night, I don't feel as strongly about it.

I'm leaning toward Pine based on his scumhunt on Pops and am curious to see how he responds with a little more heat on him.
Herschel's posts rub me the wrong way right now (something about the tone feels off before Night 1), but that might just be because of his interactions with Alisae. I'm holding off judgement until he's a bit more active.

No strong townreads for me yet

VOTE: Pine

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 2.1

Lady Lambdadelta [2] - implosion, Cephrir
Haschel Cedricson [1] - hitogoroshi
Pine [2] - Lady Lambdadelta, cyanjet

Not Voting [4]

- popsofctown, Something_Smart, Haschel Cedricson, Pine

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-06-26 21:00:00)

[implosion]

Holy shit I actually survived

Can you please clarify *precisely* why you thought you were going to die last night?

I kind of want to write off Pine as town completely and ignore paranoia just because of the NK spec. I guess I shouldn't do that with the possibility of a vig shooting alisae and NK spec not being a guaranteed thing but like, if it wasn't a vig shot then I just don't understand why scum-pine *ever* kills Alisae unless his scumbuddy is pops and there's no way it's pops/pine based on the way pine is pushing pops. I feel like NK spec is underutilized these days and scum probably shot alisae partially to make a pine lynch easy today and it's just so... meh. Like, if we lynch pine and he flips town I feel like we go into tomorrow with nothing, and I think he's significantly more likely to flip town. I don't think his LLD pussyfooting is that meaningful because I don't think he's the kind of scum player who would be motivated in that way to specifically play around one town player.

LLD voting Pine is reasonable, but she's not giving any other opinions on anyone else. I understand demotivation (and the MU championship win is cool) but there's nothing really to analyze in what she's doing that she can't fake as scum.

[Cyanjet]

Holy shit I actually survived

Can you please clarify *precisely* why you thought you were going to die last night?

Because I'm the lovable noob who a lot of people seemed to TR

In all seriousness though, I thought that me saying something about thinking I was going to die by Pops' hand would be a perfect opportunity for him/her to murder me and play it off as somebody trying to put suspicion on them. In doing so, Pops would be throwing off a lot of potential suspicion while getting rid of one many said was a TR.

As to why I said something like that to begin with...i'd like to say I was a night 1 rose, but, in reality, I'm still new to the game and lacked tact. I saw Pops' behavior as odd and called it out directly in, retrospectively, probably a really shitty way that could've opened up a few possibilities for the scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Holy shit I actually survived

Can you please clarify *precisely* why you thought you were going to die last night?

I kind of want to write off Pine as town completely and ignore paranoia just because of the NK spec. I guess I shouldn't do that with the possibility of a vig shooting alisae and NK spec not being a guaranteed thing but like, if it wasn't a vig shot then I just don't understand why scum-pine *ever* kills Alisae unless his scumbuddy is pops and there's no way it's pops/pine based on the way pine is pushing pops. I feel like NK spec is underutilized these days and scum probably shot alisae partially to make a pine lynch easy today and it's just so... meh. Like, if we lynch pine and he flips town I feel like we go into tomorrow with nothing, and I think he's significantly more likely to flip town. I don't think his LLD pussyfooting is that meaningful because I don't think he's the kind of scum player who would be motivated in that way to specifically play around one town player.

LLD voting Pine is reasonable, but she's not giving any other opinions on anyone else. I understand demotivation (and the MU championship win is cool) but there's nothing really to analyze in what she's doing that she can't fake as scum.

What do you want me to tell you all the people I think are town? That seems a bit counter productive, I'd rather see what other people try to push and cut them at the knees when they try to push my town reads. Generates more interesting interactions that way. I feel like if I say things like "Hito is town!" people will shy away from him and then I don't get to do that.

Let me have my potential come back interaction points to re-engage in this game you goon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also for the record, since Pine decided to bring up my meta here's a literal like, couple days old scum game of mine for you

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... 8RERAND%29

enjoy.

[implosion]

Alright. Willing to agree w/ ceph and call cyanjet locktown.

What do you want me to tell you all the people I think are town?

If you're town, I'd like you to actively make yourself readable. You giving one scumread and no other opinions is only conducive to that if you happen to be online at the same time as that scumread. Playing slow and reactively is all well and good but you're effectively at L-2 with pine's presumed vote.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alright. Willing to agree w/ ceph and call cyanjet locktown.

What do you want me to tell you all the people I think are town?

If you're town, I'd like you to actively make yourself readable. You giving one scumread and no other opinions is only conducive to that if you happen to be online at the same time as that scumread. Playing slow and reactively is all well and good but you're effectively at L-2 with pine's presumed vote.

You think I care about how many votes I'm on?

I mean honestly, Ceph's vote is a BoP pressure vote that I expect from him as either alignment and says nothing.

Your vote is garbage as you apparently don't even actually have a read on me, and should know better than to think that any amount of pressure is going to get me to do or show anything.

You want to see me towntell or some shit, find another axis to interact with me on, because telling me "you're getting votes time to act how I tell you" ain't it, bruv.

[Something_Smart]

You want to see me towntell or some shit, find another axis to interact with me on, because telling me "you're getting votes time to act how I tell you" ain't it, bruv.

What do you want to talk to people about, then?

[implosion]

Your vote is garbage as you apparently don't even actually have a read on me, and should know better than to think that any amount of pressure is going to get me to do or show anything.

and yet here we are having this conversation! isn't it great?

Do you have any take on why Alisae is dead?

[implosion]

(vis a vis a scumread on pine, that is)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Your vote is garbage as you apparently don't even actually have a read on me, and should know better than to think that any amount of pressure is going to get me to do or show anything.

and yet here we are having this conversation! isn't it great?

Do you have any take on why Alisae is dead?

You're asking me to do NKA on a kill like that?

In a game where (admittedly low prob) she could have been shot by the one and only town vig and then we're doing confusion to ourselves?

Sure, fine.

Alisae was completely obvious town who never trusts herself to take a gun in any world and probably doesn't value herself to take a rose night 1. Rather, she thinks if she's going to die it'll be later one since she expects to live. Her interaction with me however skyrocketed her to obvious town and made her a very easy kill.

Side effects of the kill include: Reduction of a buffer against LLD lynches, reduced active town presence, reduction of pressure on Pine and S_S.

Likely people to make this kill are you, SS, Pine and Hitogoroshi.

Satisfied?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You want to see me towntell or some shit, find another axis to interact with me on, because telling me "you're getting votes time to act how I tell you" ain't it, bruv.

What do you want to talk to people about, then?

Why would I feed you that? Isn't it more important you come up with those things? Isn't part of reading you that what things you decide to talk about are important to your motivations?

Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in a box.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Basically the kill produces apathy and encourages status quo and protects certain at risk players while making lynches on players who are less gated easier.

Like that kill makes Hito impossible to lynch but me easy to lynch.

Improves Pine and S_S's chances of living today, since she probably enters on one of them today.

And frankly, you asking that makes me feel like it's a motivation you could have easily produced and you should KNOW this, which makes me think you could have easily done and benefited from the kill too, since you saw some pressure yesterday as well.

[Something_Smart]

Isn't part of reading you that what things you decide to talk about are important to your motivations?

Yes, and right now we're trying to read YOU, not the other way around. So you need to come up with stuff to talk about.

And by the way, the last post Alisae made about Pine said he was town, so I don't see how em dying reduces pressure on him.

[implosion]

Actually maybe I'm overemphasizing how staunch Alisae was on Pine-town. I thought there were more instances of it but it's just that eir most recent posts were calling Pine town and older ones weren't. Still,

reduction of pressure on Pine and S_S.

Alisae was calling Pine town at the end of yesterday. It seems pretty bad-tunnelly to explicitly list Pine as a person who would be more likely to make the kill. I also didn't really think Alisae was obvtown and the way e was pushing me was almost less committal than I'd expect from alisae town from what I remember if e was scumreading me but that might just be me.

[Something_Smart]

Basically the kill produces apathy and encourages status quo and protects certain at risk players while making lynches on players who are less gated easier.

This seems a bit contradictory, actually. Usually as apathy increases town is more likely to lynch the easy targets like me and Pine, and less likely to be able to get a wagon together on someone who's harder to lynch.

I agree that they wanted to remove a strong and potentially unifying town voice, but wouldn't that point to the stronger players who would require a town leader to rally enough support to lynch?

[implosion]

It kind of makes sense as an encourage-the-status-quo type thing but that definitely doesn't specifically benefit Pine. It could benefit e.g. hito to just shoot highposters since if he's scum his style is going to be a lot more effective in a game without them since he can be more influential.

[implosion]

I should probably just ignore nka for now i guess. I swear alisae was like, hardcore on pine town and it's unfortunate that i'm wrong about that

[implosion]

S_S, are you planning to sit on your vote for a while?

[Something_Smart]

Really doesn't seem like it would be useful on either LLD or pops right now-- it would probably just piss them off-- so possibly.

[Pine]

Ok I’m comfortable with an LLD vote now.

VOTE: LLD

[popsofctown]

Does one weird kill actually outweigh the way Pine is playing today? Open question.

I'm pretty confused by the NK. It does make me hesitate on pine scum especially because I am kinda aware I never had a chance to make a confirmation bias free read of any of his posts all game so there's that

[implosion]

Does one weird kill actually outweigh the way Pine is playing today? Open question.

I'm pretty confused by the NK. It does make me hesitate on pine scum especially because I am kinda aware I never had a chance to make a confirmation bias free read of any of his posts all game so there's that

I don't think Pine's play today has been purely scummy. The tonal inconsistency is scummy but he is actually trying proactively to work with people and fight the apathy. I actually think pushing specifically for "jam sessions" (and doing them) is probably a fairly good overall towntell these days especially in a somewhat apathetic game like this where scum are more likely to just show up enough to stay afloat and let the town drown in its apathy.