Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

[NerfedBuJ]

And stop trying to dictate wagons.

I've been sitting on scummy teacher forever, before that on urap and now you tell me that there are only 6 viable wagons none of whom is teacher and one of them is urap who nobodywanted to lynch earlier??

Nero is 3rd top wagon on town. That's 3 top wagons scum are trying to frame into counterwagons when in reality they're all on town.

[NerfedBuJ]

I know what you're doing DP and shoshin if nero flips town you want go rob me of the credit.

Shoshin does it because of ego.
DP does it because I nailed the scumteam in page 12 and he doesn't want people to know my reads are good.

[NerfedBuJ]

And nom let's not talk like it's the apocalypse. It's day 1. Let us make a mistake if we have to. I'm not saying lynch a townread but calm down with the defeatism.

I'm sorry for every defeatist post I've made in past games. I can see how annoying it is. When it's near lylo and we've had 2 or 3 mislynches then we can start talking that way. You know it as well as anybody. I started spouting this kind of attitude after Axe mislynched 3 townies and yeah we did lose that game as town but even in lylo we still had a decent enough chance at winning. Let's not lose the war before we've even lost a single battle.

[nomnomnom]

And nom let's not talk like it's the apocalypse. It's day 1. Let us make a mistake if we have to. I'm not saying lynch a townread but calm down with the defeatism.

I'm sorry for every defeatist post I've made in past games. I can see how annoying it is. When it's near lylo and we've had 2 or 3 mislynches then we can start talking that way. You know it as well as anybody. I started spouting this kind of attitude after Axe mislynched 3 townies and yeah we did lose that game as town but even in lylo we still had a decent enough chance at winning. Let's not lose the war before we've even lost a single battle.

I'm a bit defeatist when I know my reads are sharpest early on and that I kinda am not useful too much after that but people decide to just ignore it and do other things that I know are just bad.

What am I supposed to do here? Shoshin is clearly scum. Scums are taking advantage of all of this atmosphere and it's apparent. A lot of people have used this turn around to cause chaos and it's the truth.

I don't want to be defeatist, but I really don't appreciate having all of my games happen this way, really. It's annoying.

[Detective Pikachu]

"I can see why some people would think he is scum but he is not scum" - said BuJaber

"BuJaber called nero midrange scum" - said People who "can" read.

OK let's look at your post since apparently Nero thinks it's a towncase

He has the same sort of antagonistic ignore scumreads attitude

There are good reasons to suspect nero. Maybe more so from my pov than anyone else's with my history of interacting with nero.

But both he and I have evolved our game,

he's just as human as the rest of us and because of that I think any sort of read that centers around activity or his more passive approach to pushing scumreads might not actually be AI.

So I guess it boils down to I don't hate everything he's done this game

THERE ARE WAY SCUMMIER SLOTS THAT HE HIMSELF HAS PUSHED

>He didn't ignore my scumread, in fact he had a wildly scummy overreaction to it
>you accept there are good reasons to suspect Nero
>you accept his play can change over time
>you accept activity is not in itself AI for him
>you "dont hate everything he's done this game"
>you argue "there are way scummier slots"

So let me ask you Bujaber

is this "a towncase"?

do you think I am scum for not reading this as "a towncase" and not thinking I should be convinced that he is town based on this argument when Nero's self-defense is "people can townread me from meta" when you actually argue against that central point through the ideas you're expressing here?

[nomnomnom]

I already know Nero Cain is an awful lynch. Scums are using this tide to redirect today's lynch on a random poor sod they can find a fastest case on, and that person is NC. And it's not even because of reads, it's just because of his posting style and kind of antagonistic attitude that is NOT alignment indicative. It's literally the reason we lost our previous game. Do you want to let things happen like that again? I don't. I already know where this is going.

VOTE: shoshin

[nomnomnom]

teacher's defense of shoshin despite him having a scumread on her is just incomprehensible.

[Detective Pikachu]

DP does it because I nailed the scumteam in page 12 and he doesn't want people to know my reads are good.

Your page 12 solve has at most 2 scum in it and very likely between 1 and 0, but that's okay because that's par for your day 1 play. Acting like you're gods gift to scumhunting is not a good look when you are barely interacting with people at all in real time and asking very few actually interesting questions which is atypical of you.

You're getting really good at wagging your dick around though in a game with 0 flips. Accuse me of not being able to "read" again and I'll just write you off as a "might as well be scum" read and stop caring about your alignment. Be more of a douche and see if it helps my ability to read you.

[NerfedBuJ]

Main takeaway from my posts is if y'all end up lynching one of nero/vork/flubb and whoever it is flips town, DO NOT take that to mean that one or two of the other two are scum. Wagon analysis is misleading sometimes because it is manufactured by scum. This is one of those times.

Pedit - my read accuracy is also strongest early on and when I don't doubt myself too much. Check out open 755.
However we're disagreeing here on at least 2 players. So one of us is not having a strong game. Yes it could be me but it also could be you and either way that doesn't make either of us any worse at the game and doesn't mean town will lose. Disagreement is normal and healthy. Mislynching day 1 is not the end of day. Heck I think I read somewhere that statistically it improves town odds.
But regardless if shoshin is scum whe won't be left alive forever.

Pedit 2 -- answering separetely

[nomnomnom]

I know people will never lynch shoshin today so I am a bit clueless of what to do honestly.

I'd love a compromise on teacher's slot but with how these wagons look, it's going to be hard to reach there.

[Detective Pikachu]

teacher's defense of shoshin despite him having a scumread on her is just incomprehensible.

I'm not sure why? Teacher is a very 'safe' player and he doesn't want to lynch a cop claim day 1 even if he has doubts about the slot. He's not so confident in the flip that he would lynch through a pr claim. Scum can make this sort of excuse, sure, but he would probably make it most of the time as town too. I feel like you're hung up on this point more for playstyle tbh

[nomnomnom]

teacher's defense of shoshin despite him having a scumread on her is just incomprehensible.

I'm not sure why? Teacher is a very 'safe' player and he doesn't want to lynch a cop claim day 1 even if he has doubts about the slot. He's not so confident in the flip that he would lynch through a pr claim. Scum can make this sort of excuse, sure, but he would probably make it most of the time as town too. I feel like you're hung up on this point more for playstyle tbh

He LITERALLY said he thought she was scum. There's a difference between that and being unsure.

[NerfedBuJ]

DP does it because I nailed the scumteam in page 12 and he doesn't want people to know my reads are good.

Your page 12 solve has at most 2 scum in it and very likely between 1 and 0, but that's okay because that's par for your day 1 play. Acting like you're gods gift to scumhunting is not a good look when you are barely interacting with people at all in real time and asking very few actually interesting questions which is atypical of you.

You're getting really good at wagging your dick around though in a game with 0 flips. Accuse me of not being able to "read" again and I'll just write you off as a "might as well be scum" read and stop caring about your alignment. Be more of a douche and see if it helps my ability to read you.

Okay word choice matters. Sorry I like to challenge myself to get it right day 1. Also because I've changed my reads in the past and been more wrong than right. I get manipulated by scum. I am a better scumhunter when I don't let people talk to me about how they're town. I'm sorry if you think that's wrong, but historically in my games this has so far been correct. I am weak. My gut is good. My gut is useless. I will lose this game as town. I don't know how to post or interact or read or not get pocketed or avoid NK or avoid lynches. I'm just wasting space in this game. All my previous reads in game have been blind luck. I don't actually type anything. I let a monkey bash the keyboard.

That's my inner feelings responding to your inner feelings bubbling to the surface. Turns out humans are flawed as fuck.

Here is the more nice way to say what I said. This is more in line with the real me in terms of tone and way of talking but not having confidence in reads is necessary to become a good mafia player. I am sorry that sometimes that confidence spills too far into douche range. It isn't done to piss people off. Sometimes it's just difficult to express confidence and reads where you can be convincing and influential while still maintaining your sense of respect for others and humility. In past games when I first joined the site I received feedback saying I was not confident enough and I should trust my instincts more and one time I was even told don't have a childish avatar so people respect you more. It's really hard balancing all the feedback you receive because each person cares about things differently. I guess I am sorry I am beginning to alienate some people recently because I am overcompensating for the past lack of confidence in games to now spouting a bunch of arrogant nonsense.

I fully believe that my reads in some games will be very accurate, and I think to become a good player I need to trust that and believe it especially when I find out I was right game after game. I will try not to overdo it when I post though so it doesn't make me look as though I am ignoring everyone and just playing my own game of ego-stroking. That I promise you is not the intention behind my posts at all.

I think DP is scum. I might be wrong though.
I think DP as scum, wants people to not follow my read because they may influence people to vote him. That would be a reasonably probable scum agenda if I am right about him.

If I am wrong then he has minterpretted my post about nero and my intentions. I apologize for that. I am not the best at expressing myself. I accept that that may cause problems in games, maybe get me mislynched or get others mislynched because I could not adequately defend them. I hope therefore that DP and the rest of the players will bear with me on this and not judge me too harshly if my posts are misunderstood.

[nomnomnom]

it's kinda like being on a diet but going for a whooper with the 1 liter soda

[nomnomnom]

@BuJ I really think DP isn't scum. Do you want to compromise somewhere else?

I think both our top scumreads are screwed in the sense no one is going to follow them and I refuse to be useless, so I just want to consolidate with you I guess. I just want to go some place constructive.

[NerfedBuJ]

Now to rexplain those posts on nero.

Let me preface by saying it was specifically worded as a response to shoshin. I was trying to appeal to her by saying that yes I do not disagree that some things nero has done here have been different to things town!nero has done in the past. BUT there are also several things he's done here that are similar to his town game.

Also that despite that and despite me thinking his read on shoshin is wrong and his case on cinnamon was weird I've explained how that is not enough to make him scum because on the other side of that he has also explaind his interactions with vork reasonably, and has made reads and cases that make a lot of sense and that I agreed with. So the conclusion was supposed to be that he is town for these reasons, and despite understanding why shoshin might get scum vibes from him her reasons for scumreading him are not enpugh because they do not take into account his entire ISO.

[NerfedBuJ]

@BuJ I really think DP isn't scum. Do you want to compromise somewhere else?

I think both our top scumreads are screwed in the sense no one is going to follow them and I refuse to be useless, so I just want to consolidate with you I guess. I just want to go some place constructive.

I mean he's still going on about how well he knows me and like he's an expert on my play and abilities but is remaining a secret alt. It's kind of difficult to deal with that. Can't talk meta on your main when your alt is secret.

[NerfedBuJ]

Not all slots are going to be black and white. I think people forget that sometimes and then get mad when they see a slot as black but others see it as white.

[nomnomnom]

@BuJ I really think DP isn't scum. Do you want to compromise somewhere else?

I think both our top scumreads are screwed in the sense no one is going to follow them and I refuse to be useless, so I just want to consolidate with you I guess. I just want to go some place constructive.

I mean he's still going on about how well he knows me and like he's an expert on my play and abilities but is remaining a secret alt. It's kind of difficult to deal with that. Can't talk meta on your main when your alt is secret.

I know, but even in a world where both you and me vote him, it's not going anywhere. It's kinda the same with shoshin.

Again, I refuse to be useless, let's do something productive of our day 1 and pray. Where do you want to go?

[NerfedBuJ]

I'm not even voting DP, Nom. Like everyone townreads them except nero so I'm not going to pursue that lynch. There's still teacher and urap, and the more nullish slots flubb and dunn

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: teacher

Then so be it. Let's vote there. He's leaning scum for me for those absurd interactions with Shoshin.

[NerfedBuJ]

Skitter is voting urap and I guess some have expressed some interest there.

If teacher isn't happening I'll vote there.

If everyone insists on shoshin or flubber then I'll vote flubber when we're under 8 hours

[Detective Pikachu]

I think DP as scum, wants people to not follow my read because they may influence people to vote him. That would be a reasonably probable scum agenda if I am right about him.

I feel like I've been pretty clear that I don't want people following your reads because I don't really agree with them.

I feel pretty strong on urap town. I could be wrong, in which case he's played an unusually strong scum game fmpov. Given he would not have guessed exactly what I would prioritize in my read, I find it surprising he would have presented his townreads in the way that he did.

I know I'm town.

You argue salad is a scum candidate. I mean, sure? But I read all of his town games and he has no scum games and I don't really feel like you can confidently say you're separating his new qualities and unfamiliarity with site expectations of scumhunting. I don't feel like tonally he's off his town game and the only thing in his play that threw me was choosing to do a list basically because I did a list and then not including me on the list. That was kinda odd, but I don't think it makes him scum, and I'm not really sure why you get to him scum. I can't say you're categorically wrong here because I have no scum game to look at and I have no idea what his actual scum range is or how well he would respond to coaching. Not enough intel. But I feel like he basically just wants to work toward a consensus and move on with the day which seems on the +townie side?

Teacher is the one that I am most likely to be wrong about here. I kinda? think he's town. Partly that's because, let me alt slip a little here, I have mislynched Teacher as scum before, and the arguments people are making about him are *very* similar to the arguments I used to get him mislynched. So the "he's sheeping people too much" sort of arguments don't really do it for me because that's literally how I *have* mislynched Teacher. That doesn't make him town but it makes me nervous about the push on him. I still think he's a hard read but I feel like his desire to form cohesion and get a block out of the game could possibly be town indicative.

I don't have a full solve for this game, I don't know who all the scum are, but I'm not looking at your solve and going "yeah actually urap/teacher/salad is probably it". You could have 1 (teacher), you could have 2 (salad/teacher), but I don't really think you have 3 and saying that I'm trying to poison the well against you seems really disingenuous since I feel like I have been really, really clear about how and why I am reading people the way that I am.

Like even if you think I am just wrong about everything I'm kinda at a loss as to why you haven't re-evaluated my slot at all at this point, and frankly you still feel really different from the last time we played together on my other account so yeah, I don't know what's going on with you.

[Detective Pikachu]

buj where are you on vork again?

[NerfedBuJ]

Fwiw I am less passionate and obsessive about explaining myself and convincing people on this account and rely more on stating my reads and reasons when I can and feel comfortable to because that was a personal choice I made when I made the account. Real life is already too stressful and difficult I felt myself stressing more and enjoying games less on her so I made this decision. I'm still learning to do that while still being as effective as possible and that's going to take some time. That partially explains the douchey attitude and the severe drop of ingeractions/activity. It's not something I'm willing to change it's my number 1 rule on the account. But what I will try to do is improve my game within this new playstyle and try to be effective with it.


Pedit - urap yeah saladman is the most drastic change since page 12. He's been more of a confident townread since. Check out my later readlists to see that change. So I agree there and obviously if you're town you will disagree with you being there but that still leaves 2 out of 4 (teacher/urap) and that's still enough to keep looking for a push in those 2 and reevaluate after they flip, don't you think?