Mini Normal 2080 ft. My Cats [Game Over]

[Detective Pikachu]

There's a very small part of me that wonders if Vork/Dunn was S/S all along, flubber is a third and they have no idea how to interact with his wagon at l-2, and are just hoping town implodes.

But I also have a really bad habit of townreading people who happen to be online at the same time as me so that's probably just tinfoil that I'll get shit for later cause I'm shading them or whatever

[NerfedBuJ]

Vorkuta's 100% Accurate Readlist
The first one edition

{Buj, saladman}
{pika, skitter NC}
{urap2, ED, teacher}
{Dunn, Bunny, nom x3}
{Flubber}

That readlist is all sorts of weird.

Nullish line

Dunn
EvilD
Urap2
Teacher
Pika

Scum

The rest are all town

Pffffff

Nom you haven't actually given us any convincing reason why the claim is bullshit.

Also shoshin, nom, vork are 100% town.

Skitter, saladman and nero are very probably town.

My reads on page 12 were awesome. I didn't change them much in page 30 something or whatever it was, and I still don't see any reason to change them now.

Like seriously sho is terrible at scum. She got caught in day 1 and basically gave us her partner on a silver platter in scientific mafia.
You don't just get 20 times better at scum in a day. Unless she's playing many many games off site this just isn't scum!shoshin.

But even if none of that is true there are such obviously more scummy slots in this game like come on.

Vote teacher.
Nom you're worrying over nothing. We have a very viable counterwagon and shoshin can't win as scum here.
It's okay for the game to last longer to make sure you're right. Hurrying up is unnecessary. Just get your reads in early in the game for the post-game smack-talking.

Towns really need to focus on winning the game more than lynch accuracy. Lynching scums in a row early on is absolutely worthless when a deepwolf will endgame it.

Pedit - I'm not scared that's rediculous I just don't want to lynch someone I think is very likely town. Make her self-vote or hard claim scum and then I'll PL because I'm predictable like that.

Buj, please vote Nero.

He's literally the 6th scummiest person if I were forced to put them in order.

So no. Not day 1

Actually I kind of flip flop with my replacement scumreads. My first team scum pool is solid.

Dunn / Flubb / Nero I guess I fluctuate on who's townier.

So nero is between 4th - 6th scummiest

These posts are showing by changing reads.

So for clarity what I'm working with at the moment looks something like this:

Town: cinn, vork, skitter, shoshin, nom (wouldn't lynch before lylo or guilties)
Townlean: nero, saladman (not comfortable voting)
Scumlean: dunn, flubber (would rather not vote)
Scum: teacher, urap, DP (would lynch)

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah I don't really even hate your teacher push even if I think he's more null and thus flips town slightly more often than scum but not by like, a lot. He's hard to read mostly because he can actually try relatively hard as scum and so I know he has a range, not because I actually dislike almost any of his posts. I honestly kinda feel like your page 12 reads are like 0/4 but I don't want to give you shit about it until I actually see some flips.

What the fuck am I even talking about, Dunn and Vork are both on Flubber, they just are so quiet I forgot. idk that doesn't actually break my tinfoil tho. Just feels weird that I feel like I'm arguing with a bunch of town and all the people on the Flubber wagon are kinda just chilling.

[Detective Pikachu]

urap had vork as strong town too, is that mostly off his early play around RVS?

[NerfedBuJ]

To be honest though I'm quite scared to put vork up that high but I'm 100% sure that's just my personal uneasiness because of his playstyle. I was quite confident of the townread, I don't think the activity drop changes things so far.

[Detective Pikachu]

Lying dirtbags

I do townread nero.

to be clear I'm a "lying dirtbag" because I interpreted your position on Nero as one tier off from its actual position?

[NerfedBuJ]

Yes

But I wasn't thinking I just got mad because the post defending nero was very clearly defending nero to me. I failed to see it from someone else's POV

[NerfedBuJ]

So it looked like an intentional lie to me

[Flubbernugget]

So as of page 66 this is the absolute worst push on a cop claim I have ever seen.

UNVOTE:

[Flubbernugget]

I have a 3hr drive then ketchup

[Flubbernugget]

Can I get teacher and DP to give some thoughts on this please

I'm having mixed feelings, I'm trying to decide whether we're playing [a game where town lynches strongest PR d1] or [a game where town let's scum get off from a strong investigative claim], I've lost games to both of those scenarios before

I think I would like the sho lynch more if nom hadn't started pinging me just a little bit, but uhh, I also recognize that my 'pace' in deciding things like this tends to be a lot slower than most town are okay with

(Still feel bad for Egix, did you see that he conceded and mod actually denied it? Ughh that was like, a huge reason I was second guessing myself on him because I was pretty sure he would concede. sorry this is o/t)

I found a little more time.

This is simple.

Shoshin gets lynched before lylo.

[Flubbernugget]

scum is sho, skitter and dp?

this is a god-awful read, no offense

Damn, beat me to it

[Flubbernugget]

Pg 69 ok now i have to go

[skitter30]

Skitter, how sure are you about town Pika? He seems utterly convinced that U2's town in ways that seem a bit unbelievable to me.

V confident

[skitter30]

I know what you're doing DP and shoshin if nero flips town you want go rob me of the credit.

Shoshin does it because of ego.
DP does it because I nailed the scumteam in page 12 and he doesn't want people to know my reads are good.

i don't like this post

[skitter30]

i'm kinda losing my townread on nom i guess

[skitter30]

teacher's defense of shoshin despite him having a scumread on her is just incomprehensible.

y tho

[skitter30]

buj's playing kinda off-puttingly-y but i think he's town anyways

is there really no way that we can wagon urap .....

i guess i'd switch to nero out of all the current options but i feel p strongly that urap isn't town at this point

[Shoshin]

Nom's pushing me harder than anyone & I'm strongly against lynching her

TBF you HAVE to town read her b/c there's no way you'd ever win a 1v1. You think you can win against me.

I don't 1v1 unless I'm at LYLO. That's a bad approach to the game, regardless of alignment. (I have said this before in other games as both alignments).

Unlike him, I do meta research.

if you did meta research there's no way that you think im scum here.

Tell us, what makes you so towny here compared to your scum games? Buj agrees that you look different from your normal town games.

[Shoshin]

i guess i'd switch to nero out of all the current options but i feel p strongly that urap isn't town at this point

I don't disagree with you, but how do you square that with Pika's read? I'm hesitant to question strong townreads from people who seem to have done a lot of meta research.

[Shoshin]

Buj, please address this.

These are my thoughts on Nero. I'd appreciate feedback on what I'm missing here.

Spoiler:

kinda funny 2 me that this is who I've been calling scum and they are all pushing the same wagon.

EvilDeanius (3): Detective Pikachu, u r a person 2, teacher

At this point, Nero's townreading ED & scumreading the wagon.

in my limited exp. with Shosin she's a lurksack as town so the hyperactivity means this is prob scum.

VOTE: shoshin

I don't understand how this shift happens in the mind of a townie.

Like, let's say I'm town Nero looking at unknown Shoshin slot. I see Shoshin posting a lot more than I did in the RC upick game. I also see Shoshin say that she hates playing scum, that she'd never willingly choose to play scum, and that she's more likely to lurk as scum than town. I see her link to evidence proving these points, and I see confirmation from multiple players familiar with Shoshin (e.g. Skitter, Buj, etc.). I also see her claim cop.

I decide to ignore the link & not check her claim out. I also ignore the players familiar with Shoshin's meta. And I ignore the cop claim. I'm going to assume Shoshin's lying. I don't have a reason for this other than the fact that Shoshin's more active than she was in the one & only game I've ever seen her play. Her increased activity must mean she's scum, even though a lot of the information in this game suggests the opposite. I'm also going to ignore the fact that I townread her predecessor (ED) & scumread the players voting her (U2 & Teacher).

How is this the mindset of a townie trying to sort an unknown slot?

Why are you ignoring the specific evidence that I hate playing scum & lurk even more as scum than town?

I have no such evidence and I haven't looked at any links or anything if they've been provided. I just know you were a town lurksack in RC's upick. You aren't being a lurksack here b/c ???

Again, why would town ignore all the information in the thread suggesting that I lurk more as scum than town? Why would town Nero assume his sample size of one town game and zero scum games means that activity is scummy for me? This seems very unlikely to me.

This is what you're ignoring. Why are you ignoring this?

its not ignoring if this is not the experience I'm citing.

I don't understand this at all. I'm asking Nero why he's ignoring a bunch of information in the thread that I lurk more as scum than town. He says he isn't ignoring it, he's just not citing it.

If Nero's isn't ignoring this information -- if he just isn't citing it -- then why is he arguing the opposite of what the evidence shows? The reality is that he's ignoring the information, and he's deflecting my question about it by trying to narrow the scope of conversation to a single experience he had in a game with me nearly a year ago.

How is this the mindset of a townie trying to sort an unknown slot?

@Nero

You're ignoring the vast majority of evidence to push an entirely made-up story that I lurk more as town than scum. Would you do this as town?

It wasn't something I was ignoring b/c it's no something that I was aware of and thus it's impossible for me to ignore. But its not why I'm pushing you now so you can take your manipulative pressure point statement to the dead thread.

He says he isn't ignoring it because he wasn't aware of it. I guess he isn't reading the thread, then. And he says he isn't pushing me because of this anymore. Why's he pushing me now? He never gave new reasons.

Sho is avoiding the shit out of me. She's scared scum.

This is a distortion of reality. I'm not avoiding anyone in this thread, as I'm sure is evident to everyone here, including the people who suspect me. Even Nom can't say I'm avoiding her.

Isn't it kinda odd to lament me over voting you with one game experience but you are using that same one game to declare what I would or wouldn't do?

Nero assumes I'm basing my analysis on one game. Unlike him, I do meta research. I also played with him on alts he's unaware of. It's a bit besides the point, but as a general matter, I find scummy all the assumptions that Nero makes about me in his attempts push me.

b/c nom says you are but you are ignoring that I'm sheeping and focusing on me supposedly sitting on you b/c activity.

This is where Nero finally tells us the reason he's voting me now that he's dropped the "lurker/activity" point. He's sheeping Nom. I suppose that's plausible for a townie to do, though it seems unlikely to me that town Nero chooses to sheep Nom instead of coming to his own conclusions. This feels like scum hiding behind town Nom pushing a mislynch.

b/c nom says you are but you are ignoring that I'm sheeping and focusing on me supposedly sitting on you b/c activity.

Why are you sheeping Nom instead of coming up with your own reads?

b/c I like her reasons.

He says he likes her reasons. What reasons?

What specifically do you "like," Nero?

the part that says you are scum.

That I'm scum... Nero straight-up deflects answering the question of why he's voting me. Let's recap this:

1. Nero votes me because he assumes I lurk more as town than scum. He does this despite lots of information in the thread that I lurk more as scum than town.

2. When I call Nero out on ignoring relevant information about my alignment when sorting me, he backtracks on his reasoning. He says he's voting me for other reasons now, not because of the lurker/activity point.

3. When questioned about these supposed reasons that he's voting me, Nero says he's sheeping Nom's reasons, specifically the fact that Nom says I'm scum. In short, Nero's voting me because Nom called me scum, period.

Again, how is this the mindset of a townie trying to sort an unknown slot?

I'm also going to point out this deflection tactic that doesn't feel right to me:

just look at one of her towngames

Why is her town game a good way to read her but my towngames are not a way to read me?

I think we have played once but FMPOV it feels odd that you are using meta to defend Sho but not even considering my meta here.

Nero uses this deflection tactic a lot in this game to continue pushing my lynch when presented with relevant evidence. Rather than take the meta evidence into account, and reevaluating his read, Nero looks for an excuse to continue ignoring the evidence (e.g. "you're not considering my meta, so I won't consider yours").

For starters, it's untrue that I wasn't considering Nero's meta -- that's an assumption on Nero's part -- and notice that he never actually points out what aspect of his meta I'm not considering. In contrast, I point out precisely what aspect of my meta Nero's ignoring. He doesn't point out what I'm ignoring about his meta because the truth is I'm not ignoring it.

I also feel like town in Nero's situation reevaluates regardless of what others do. You don't keep scumreading someone when presented with exculpatory meta evidence. You just don't. That's not what town do. Nero instead looks for excuses to ignore the meta evidence. Again, how is this the mindset of a townie trying to sort an unknown slot?

[Shoshin]

If the entirety of my wagon -- U2, Flubb, Nero, Nom, Salad -- was town, scum made a massive mistake not lynching me when they had the chance. I find this very unlikely.

[skitter30]

i guess i'd switch to nero out of all the current options but i feel p strongly that urap isn't town at this point

I don't disagree with you, but how do you square that with Pika's read? I'm hesitant to question strong townreads from people who seem to have done a lot of meta research.

He also spent most of that lylo (the one he did the meta research for) thinking urap's posting was scummy so (he was town)

I basically see little reason to trust his read over my own

I kinda feel like town!urap would try to engage me more here and try to convince me i'm wrong on him if i was

[Shoshin]

I thought his biggest scumtell as Draco was that his reads didn't make sense & he didn't drop them after called on it. I get the same feeling about his reads in this game.

I disagree that town U2 tries to engage you more about why you're wrong on him unless this is based on how you expect him to interact with you specifically regardless of the read. I've seen town U2 be recklessly apathetic about people who scumread him before.

[Shoshin]

What're your thoughts about my Nero analysis, Skitter?

If we can get Nero to town, then U2's the obvious lynch. I don't think it'll be possible to lynch U2 if Nero's an option. There's too much opposition.