Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[Persivul]

You know why.

It's a new game, so...no, I don't know why. Please explain.

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

First. And also the best.

VOTE: Persivul

You know why.

- Jack

?
did you not see me in the game

your king is here

Mayor > King because King's don't exist in America. I'm still the best and always will be. If you want to become second-best you got your work cut out for you as Liz and Zeebu are both ahead of you. You're actually in last place currently for calling Liz ugly!

Here, read these books if you want to learn how to become second-best:







- Jack

Did you do this kind of stuff in the last game?

[Persivul]

Excuse me, am I here right for enrollment into cominterm?

VOTE: Voted
Policy - anti-town opening.

[Persivul]

Why did you unvote?

[Persivul]

why didnt you want to vote him

Because I don’t have a reason.

~L

That's not a reason to unvote at this stage of the game.

VOTE: Liz & Jack

[Persivul]

What is that, a bad, forced joke?

[Persivul]

Why do you take issue with Liz unvoting you?

That's been explained. Asking again is scummy.

She didn’t just unvote you, she moved our slot’s vote to Zeebu because she thinks that’s a better vote at the moment.

Do you think people can't see the thread? She didn't vote zeebu until she was already taking heat for the unvote.

Why would scum!Liz be more likely to move our slot’s vote off of you compared to town!Liz?

Buddying.

You might recall that a similar thing happened in the first CoC game, where I RVS voted Shoshin and then Liz moved our slot’s vote elsewhere.

Stop the revisionist history. She didn't move the vote. She unvoted without a new vote, took pressure for it, and only then put down a new vote.

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

You know why.

It's a new game, so...no, I don't know why. Please explain.

Yes, I RVS voted you because you were scum in the first Chain of Command game.

Spoiler:

First. And also the best.

VOTE: Persivul

You know why.

- Jack

?
did you not see me in the game

your king is here

Mayor > King because King's don't exist in America. I'm still the best and always will be. If you want to become second-best you got your work cut out for you as Liz and Zeebu are both ahead of you. You're actually in last place currently for calling Liz ugly!

Here, read these books if you want to learn how to become second-best:







- Jack

Did you do this kind of stuff in the last game?

No, I didn’t make any joke posts “in character” as Jack Donaghy in the last game.

why didnt you want to vote him

Because I don’t have a reason.

~L

That's not a reason to unvote at this stage of the game.

VOTE: Liz & Jack

Why do you take issue with Liz unvoting you?

She didn’t just unvote you, she moved our slot’s vote to Zeebu because she thinks that’s a better vote at the moment

. Why would scum!Liz be more likely to move our slot’s vote off of you compared to town!Liz? You might recall that a similar thing happened in the first CoC game, where I RVS voted Shoshin and then Liz moved our slot’s vote elsewhere.

- Jack

@Aubrey/Saudade/Persi/anyone else who is misconstruing this.

~L[/quote]
No, you didn't

move

the vote. You unvoted, took heat for it, then threw up a vote on zeebu with no explanation, and no follow-up.

[Persivul]

No clue regarding the smaller text above.

[Persivul]

Saudade, if you were scum, how would I know?

[Persivul]

I mean Weiss. I think Jack recently really got into the tv show. lmao

@zeebu, why are your posts always so weird?

VOTE: zeebu

~L

@Persi, where was this “heat” on me when I made post 34?

No clue what you're referring to.

And how is our changing our vote, scummy?

~Liz

WTF, repeating the same question over and over doesn't make you look less scummy. I get more satisfied with my vote with each post you make.

[Persivul]

I think I know my own mind better than you.

Of course you do. I can only infer your mind from what you post. And, voting zeebu with no reason and no follow-up, after being questioned for unvoting, seems to come from the mind of scum.

[Persivul]

I did have a reason, which I mentioned in post 34, which you seem to be deliberately ignoring.

Wrong. You said their posts were

always

weird. When someone always does something, it's NAI for them.

Btw, I ISO’d you in one of your previous scumgames and you pulled the exact same crap in that one:

LOL...you're admitting that, instead of ISO diving my town and scum games in order to sort me, you just looked at scum games until you found something you could use in defense.

Are you scum here, Persival? What you’re doing in THIS game to

our

slot, is literally the exact same bs you used to “scumread” town!Plotinus, wasn’t it?

And, you just cast shade instead of casting a vote. You're caught scum. People should vote this.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Persival

Scum doesn’t seem to realize that I have the best memory.

~L

Oops! I probably should have voted in that last post!

[Persivul]

Although, one thing I will note?

Persivul's reasons for scumreading Liz are not alignment indicative for her. The reasons I'm scumreading her are completely different.

-Blake

1. What are your reasons?

2. What do you think my reasons are?

[Persivul]

I voted you because you’re persisting on misrepping me and keep ignoring that what you’re saying about us is wrong.
~L

Wrong. You unvoted without reason. You were pressured on that. You then voted zeebu without reason, and didn't pressure him. Those aren't misreps. They're facts that anyone can go back and check.

[Persivul]

You accuse me of failing to do an accurate metadive, ye?

Yes. When you look at one scum game and draw a conclusion from it, that's not an ccurate metaadive.

So, I’m asking you to show me where you essentially did pretty much the same thing as town and I’ll unvote you.

Why haven’t you done this yet?

~L

Because I'm not concerned at all about your omgus push.

[Persivul]

I thought he might be scum until he voted Aubrey. ... When he voted Aubrey, with the reasoning he gave, I started to doubt my vote on him

That's about the only townie thing you've said so far.

[Persivul]

Liz and Jack also feel like their overly defending themselves

Yes, that's the real issue.

when a simple explanation and shrug would have been just as effective

Much more effective actually.

[Persivul]

You don't need to be a douche.

[Persivul]

Yeah, just when I start feeling a little better about LJ, they go and put up a lamist busywork post.

[Persivul]

This game is really starting to piss me off. I’m not being fucking lamist is all I’m going to say further. Apparently Blake isn’t the only one here who’s being dense. Why am I even bothering?

WTF, how long have you been playing mafia? Boo hoo.

[Persivul]

Hydras are really fucking annoying.

[Persivul]

I'm trying to purposefully ignore that whole "she unvoted them voted blah blah blah" thing everyone keeps dragging on.

You got nothing AI out of that?

[Persivul]

I'm soon going to get suspicious of people who kept making a big deal out of that. The vote/unvote itself wasn't particularly AI for me.

Yes, I noted that myself. It was the (over)reaction to questioning on it that bothered me. I'm now concerned that you didn't get anything out of that exchange. It may have gone on longer than you liked, but it should have helped you sort me and LJ.

[Persivul]

OK, what was the reason?

[Persivul]

There aren't any roles in this setup that can conftown themselves.

[Persivul]

So, that’s why I say, we will be confitown so long as the captain is also town, because if we’re scum, we would obviously want to disobey town!Captain, wouldn’t we and vice-versa?

No. If scum always disobey, scum PRs would always (with a town captain) be outed D2. If you're scum PR and ordered to do something that isn't going to harm you (and that's likely), you'd obey.

[Persivul]

Jailkeeper
Voyeur
Follower
Rolecop
Bodyguard
Motivator
Doctor
Poisoner

Top of my head, the only thing you'd need to disobey is if you're poisoner, and ordered to poison your partner. Two things to remember: scum PRs can take an action and perform the kill; captain gives the orders, but he doesn't get results.

[Persivul]

As role cop, I would have obeyed. There was no downside to obeying.

[Persivul]

5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.

[Persivul]

5. All results are given to the players, not the Captain.

Okay thanks, I don’t know how I didn’t see that. So the players would know the results of our NA, unless we either disobeyed or were required to self-target.

I'm taking "players" to mean the players with the PRs. Like, only the follower or rolecop himself would get the result. As usual.

[Persivul]

It's probably not a fakeclaim. Scum can have any of the ranks or roles.

What's the town motivation for claiming this early? You don't know if there's a doc. Why give scum a good N1 target?

In the last run I had a role and was softing. That's because I was scum and taking heat. If town, I wouldn't have claimed unless at L-1.

[Persivul]

^ That was a reply to 251

[Persivul]

Were you told that last game, that you yourself would receive that result, because I don’t recall reading that anywhere in the setup?

It was clear from the role PM.

[Persivul]

Do you really think that results are PM'd to every player, except the captain?

I mean come on.

[Persivul]

Here's a previous run:
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31789

There was a voyeur who had actions. Mod did not post the results in the game thread.

[Persivul]

Contrary to what Persi is asserting, there is nothing in my role pm, that clarifies this

I'm not saying there was clarifying language in the role PM. It was standard language, but that language was clear.

[Persivul]

That was a really underwhelming catchup.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Aubrey

L-1

I'll take a hammer without intent as a scum claim.

[Persivul]

Stupid wagon.

Is that a serious remark, or just frustration? I.e. do you think the wagon is stupid town, or scummy?

[Persivul]

Both Blake and Persivul's vote on Aubrey are pretty scummy

Zeebu voted based on one post, then disappeared. You're voting zeebu. Don't you think zeebu's vote is scummy?

Voted said he didn't have time to read and was just sheeping Blake. You don't find that scummy?

[Persivul]

Liz and Jack is probably town.

-Blake

No, you do not just drop that. You need to explain it.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE: Aubrey

This wagon is bad.

-Blake

Why were you parked on it before I escalated it?

[Persivul]

I think zeebu's low-hanging as scum

What does that mean?

[Persivul]

Why did you L-1 Aubrey on such a wagon?

The game had stagnated. We needed an L-1 to shake things up and give something to analyze later in game.

[Persivul]

@Aubrey: It's not my fault you claimed without intent. My vote showed me that Blake was leaving the wagon and neither Saudade nor Iconeum were jumping on with intent. There would have been no harm to you if you had just kept your mouth shut. I made it clear that a hammer without intent was not acceptable.

[Persivul]

What? The scumread or the townread?

The town read please.

[Persivul]

You cannot expect to shift blame of his claim onto himself.

Of course I can. I specified in bold that I would take a hammer without intent as a scum claim, yet Aubrey panicked and claimed anyway.

Yes, site meta is shifting away from waiting for intent before a hammer, but that needs to change. That's part of why towns are losing.

You put him on L-1 after being wagoned for poor reasons. You never mentioned any kind of reason why.

If I say

Hey, I really only have a null read on him, I'm just doing this to see who jumps off the wagon, or who puts on intent, etc.

that blows the whole purpose.

What did you expect was gonna happen? What kind of scenario was town!you trying to force here?

Someone would get off the wagon, or someone would declare intent, at which point I would have unvoted.

Sliding through D1 with no serious wagons and making a compromise lynch at end of phase isn't good for town.

[Persivul]

VOTE: zeebu

[Persivul]

scum!Liz is 100% incapable of posting content?

[Persivul]

Assuming no interference with your action,

you

will learn that player's role (but not their alignment or rank).

Seemed clear that the result was going to me.

[Persivul]

Hope you get better soon and are able to play because day is running out

Since day is closing I don’t mind it too much since something needs to happen.

There's five days left. I don't want to discourage activity, but neither do I want to see people using deadline in reasoning when we're not near it yet.

[Persivul]

Indeed. During RVS everyone never votes whisout reason, and always pressures these who they RVS vote. Noone changes vote during RVS.

WTF does that even mean?

[Persivul]

zeebu's 85 is a very shallow vote. 'the tone seems to be throwing a little bit of shade' is worded very awkwardly.

This. He posted fluff, then this very awkward post, then disappeared.

[Persivul]

VOTE COUNT 1.09

zeebu

(3): Iconeum, Persivul, Blake x Weiss

L-2

Iconeum

(2): Datisi, zeebu

Saudade

(1): Liz and Jack

Liz and Jack

(1): Saudade

Aubrey

(1): Voted

Datisi

(1): Aubrey

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2019-07-02 13:00:00)

@saudade: I have LJ as scum, but on the chance that they're town we shouldn't lynch an officer today. Save them for tomorrow.

@voted: if you like wagons, why are you sitting alone on Aubrey? His reaction to the L-1 looked town enough to me.

@Aubrey: You've mentioned Datisi 3 times all game. Why is your vote there?

p-edit: WTF iconeum?

[Persivul]

Yeah, but I ca think it two ways.
BG protects doctor, doctor goes on bg, maf hits doc.
1) mafia hit unprotected doc, bg gets hit by unprotected attack, dies.
2) mafia hits doc, kill redirects to bg who is protected and noone dies.

Why are you asking this in open thread, instead of PMing mod?

[Persivul]

what about it?

I can either vote for zeebu which i've explained plenty
Or I can vote for scumdude

What is there to gain right now with having zeebu at L-1?

Lynching scum maybe?

Do you have concerns that me or Blake are scum? If not, then why did this wagon stall?

[Persivul]

Saudade has not been the only slot pushes us but I’m hard tr B & W and Persi.

So join us on zeebu.

[Persivul]

I'm fairly confident we have a town wagon there

Me too, and all-town wagons tend to stall on D1. If zeebu's town, scum would be on it or maneuvering toward it.

[Persivul]

Persivul, you comfortable with lynching zeebu right here and now?

Let me work out my full list.

[Persivul]

Saudade literally scumclaimed with his Icon omgus accusation. Town usually lynches the player with the least charisma D1, which is arguably zeebu, which wouldn’t be bad if we didn’t have a player who outright scumclaimed.

STFU about an outright scum claim. That's ridiculous. Scum are the ones who make such arguments about a single post.

Regarding charisma, IMO saudade has the least charisma, and you're pushing him.

[Persivul]

Persivul, you comfortable with lynching zeebu right here and now?

Mechanically I don't want to lynch LJ today, but the more the post, the less I care about the mechanical angle.

[Persivul]

No particular order in groups:
Town: {Blake, Datisi, Aubrey, Iconeum}
Null: {Saudade, Voted}
Scum: {zeebu, Liz and Jack}

So, yes, I'm comfortable lynching zeebu now.

[Persivul]

If that were true, why is zeebu at L-1?

1. He's not
2. He's scummy
3. Your argument about charisma isn't a law. I mean WTF?

[Persivul]

I want to talk mechanics just for 1 sec here:

In the OP it says that the captain has to direct the PR's during the night. In the link to the wiki however, it says the captain has to send it in during the DAY.
I just don't want to end the day without giving the captain a chance to send in actions if he hasn't do so already

Yeah in last run there was contradiction regarding daytalk IIRC.

[Persivul]

Zeebu sucks as town, does practically nothing and is hopeless. As scum he posts lots of reads and pushes people.
In this game, which of these two personalities is he closer?

I checked his newbies, and I disagree that as town he does nothing and is hopeless. I do agree that his one scum game was also active. This game isn't like his town or his scum meta.

[Persivul]

I want to talk mechanics just for 1 sec here:

In the OP it says that the captain has to direct the PR's during the night. In the link to the wiki however, it says the captain has to send it in during the DAY.
I just don't want to end the day without giving the captain a chance to send in actions if he hasn't do so already

The captain's role PM ITT also says during the day.

Before that, it says "In this game, a "Captain" will tell the various Power Roles in the game what to do during the night." Considering the role PM, "During the night" apparently refers to "Power Roles," not "Captain."

[Persivul]

Do whatever you wish. When Zeebu flips town, I demand right to bug you with "I told you this would happen" and similar sentenses.

Blah, blah. With 78% town players, it's pretty fucking easy to say someone's town.

Maybe your balls will drop today and you'll actually vote someone, instead of just bitching about other people's votes.

[Persivul]

Ico if you dont unvote me by the time i check this thread again im taking percis advice and roping you instead of liz

Except I'm voting zeebu and am lean town on Iconeum.

[Persivul]

Regarding saudade: Early on I found a recent scum game of his and tone seemed different. Also liked that he agreed on L&J scum. That's enough that I won't vote him today, but by his own admission he's a good scum player so will need to do a deeper meta dive eventually.

[Persivul]

He’s not my partner but no game is worth risking a temp ban.

You should get a temp ban for violating three parts of the the replacement request rule:
- you threatened to replace out in the thread
- you actually replaced out int the thread, rather than PMing mod
- you posted after your replacement request

[Persivul]

VOTE: Liz & Jack

[Persivul]

BTW, if anyone's wondering how I went from voting zeebu to being on a wagon with him:

- I doubt that L&J and zeebu are partners after

640

. I don't see scum!zeebu going from pretty much nothing to effective distancing like that, and D1 buses are unusual in micros anyway.

- zeebu's been on a slightly upward track, while L&J have just been spiraling down.

[Persivul]

Would you rather Weiss just filter all her thoughts to me privately so that nobody else sees what her thoughts are?

Yeah, it would be a lot easier to deal with hydras if they made their reads in private and presented a united front in thread.

[Persivul]

I’d rather not risk eliminating a chain of command right now since it can be a potential aid to the scum cause.

Then make a push that's going somewhere. Your vote on Datisi ain't it.

[Persivul]

Btw Liz left her scumrange, she's town.

How so, and can you provide an example game?

[Persivul]

Yo Persi how's it feeling being on a wagon with zeebu and saudude?

Fine.

[Persivul]

BTW, if anyone's wondering how I went from voting zeebu to being on a wagon with him:

- I doubt that L&J and zeebu are partners after

640

. I don't see scum!zeebu going from pretty much nothing to effective distancing like that, and D1 buses are unusual in micros anyway.

- zeebu's been on a slightly upward track, while L&J have just been spiraling down.

Not reading the thread Icon?

[Persivul]

There are no benefits to us claiming prematurely regardless of our alignment.

Then why did they do it? Particularly the rank?

[Persivul]

Tldr can we just lynch one of Iconeum and Datisi please.

-Blake

I could vote Icon, but not Datisi. She's struck me as town so far.

[Persivul]

Michael Scott is town because Nancy left her scumrange before replacing out.

Is Liz Nancy Drew? That would make their shitshow more plausible as town.

[Persivul]

You're not even voting him, dipshit.

VOTE: Iconeum

[Persivul]

Actually I went off zeebu because I didn't see LJ slot and zeebu as S/S and wanted LJ worse. Now that I've backed off somewhat on the LJ/MS read, that doesn't apply anymore. Just read Icon and zeebu ISOs, and icon is clearly better.

VOTE: zeebu

[Persivul]

^

L-2

[Persivul]

how lovely to see all those claimed PR's still alive

Ditto that.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Aubrey

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

After much consideration I have decided to amend the rules:

-A player who voluntarily replaces out may replace back in

IF

I deem that such an action will not negatively affect the game. Any instance of this will be considered on a case by case basis, and will be allowed

ONLY ONCE.

A second voluntary replace out is

PERMANENT

regardless of the situation.

Liz of Liz and Jack replaced out due to an interpersonal conflict and not for any strategic reason, as such I have discussed this situation with her and have decided to allow her to return to the game. She will join the members of the existing Michael Scott hydra, which will be replaced with the hydra of Liz Jack and Kenneth.

This is a reminder to all players to please behave in a civil manner, Mafia is a game based on conflict, but there is no need to make purposefully inflammatory comments towards others.

I would also like to remind everyone of this rule:

Replacements, while sometimes necessary, also serve as an outside influence. As such, do not tell other players to replace out. Do not publicly threaten to replace out of a game. If you do need to replace out, do not publicly discuss your reasons or anything else, as you are no longer a player in the game. PM your game moderator if you are considering replacing out or have concerns and believe another player should be replaced out.

Following this incident I will be less lenient on any replace outs due to interpersonal conflict, so please do not attempt to replace out and then back in just because the rule exists, I may not be feeling so generous the next time.

Thank you for your understanding on this matter.

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off.

I voted Aubrey just as a reaction test. Doc is the default NK, BUT in this setup if captain is scum, that's not necessary. So, Aubrey isn't auto scum for still being alive.

Nancy being back in this game is bullshit. I do think they're scum, particularly with the zeebu flip. But this is also policy.

VOTE: Liz Jack and Kenneth

I'm done playing this game until this slot is gone.

[Persivul]

However you don't need to tunnel Liz because of policy right now… We can further discuss this most interesting kill (and especially lack of death among the PR's) first

Or we could ask why Liz etc. hasn't revealed their target and result. With all the BS yesterday about whether the captain, thread, or PR get the results, they obviously were softing an investigative role.

[Persivul]

game ends after 4 lynches

start 7:2
1 mislynch: 5:2
2 mislynches: 3:2 lylo
3 mislynches: game over

[Persivul]

Kenneth just explained to me why our result can’t be confirmed, so I’m being dumb. :/

@Persi, why wouldn't scum!us have NK’d you - if you’re actually town here - instead of Blake/Weiss, two players you're very familiar with and also townread you?

Blake has an extremely accurate BoP on me and has never wrongly townread me, although she has wrongly scumread me before.

~L

You're not here. You replaced out.

[Persivul]

Hey LJK, you planning on claiming anytime soon?

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jack and Kenneth
Can't vote Liz. She replaced out.

[Persivul]

I'd put it to L-1 to force claim but I think *someone* might quickhammer so consider this intent

I believe I'm the only Jack/Kenneth vote rn. Voted and Saudade unvoted.
p-edit make that two

[Persivul]

Datisi, vote Jack and Kenneth please.

[Persivul]

This game is going nowhere with Nancy in it. Just kill them.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Iconeum

You misspelled Jack and Kenneth

[Persivul]

Nancy being back in this game is bullshit. I do think they're scum, particularly with the zeebu flip. But this is also policy.

[Persivul]

I am not lynching outside Datisi Iconeum.

That should be jack/aubrey. Mechanically at least one of them is scum.

[Persivul]

I do but it srarts with the captain

The captain is scum. WTF makes you think they'll claim?

[Persivul]

I am not lynching outside Datisi Iconeum.

That should be jack/aubrey. Mechanically at least one of them is scum.

Mechanically?

Yes. Two claimed PRs, both still alive.

[Persivul]

If these PRs were both town, it would be highly unlikely that scum would let both live, even if scum have the captain. If scum have both the captain and commander it wouldn't matter, but that also is highly unlikely.

[Persivul]

I bet the captain is a very sexy man

No, I'm not the captain.

[Persivul]

Sometimes I dream at night, and in my dreams I hammer liz and i win the game for us

I endorse this product or service.

[Persivul]

Kind of started suspecting Blake to be honest. How could have the doc been protected? Send the JK on him? Not protecting myself could've been risky, but a lot of people were sr me. Doubted scum would attack me.

Persi was one of the most tr players. In case one of the protective PR is scum, it could've been possible that they would simply disobey and try to kill who they were designed to protect. That's why there was a "backup".

That's not a bad explanation.

Now let's lynch Jack and Kenneth please.

[Persivul]

mod, VLA through the weekend

[Persivul]

So have you given up on this?

Yes. Your explanation is reasonable and I've been town reading you all along.

[Persivul]

That's fine, I'll be gone for 4 days anyway.

[Persivul]

-A player who voluntarily replaces out may replace back in

IF I deem that such an action will not negatively affect the game

. Any instance of this will be considered on a case by case basis, and will be allowed ONLY ONCE. A second voluntary replace out is PERMANENT regardless of the situation.

If you have an issue with this decision, please take it up with me after the end of the game as I cannot discuss it until then, thank you.

This was possibly the worst modding decision I've ever seen. You and Nancy completely fucked up this game.

There is only one instance in which it's acceptable for someone who replaced out to come back into a game: the slot's been on the replacement queue for more than two days with no takers.

mod, please replace me.

I know that's not the proper way to replace out, but we know how much you care about the replacement rules...

[Persivul]

Mod I called down I'll replace back in k tx

[Persivul]

Calmed

[Persivul]

With two protectives we should also be thinking mechanically. Cap should put doc on herself and no on me tonight.

[Persivul]

Jk on me

[Persivul]

Not used to phone posting

[Persivul]

Btw I'm commander but not a pr

[Persivul]

That was very unethical play by the hydra.

Nancy replaces out ostensibly due to conflict with Saudade.

Auro replaces in. He later admits this was tactical in 1373: I decided to replace into this slot originally because I was scumreading Liz/Jack (so I could help them out);

Nancy comes back in, despite Saudade still being in the game.

Saudade, their own scum partner, seems to think it was tactical: 2194 2195

Also, they possibly broke the discussion of ongoing games rule. In the mafia thread post 23, Auro said "Nancy might replace back into this slot." Unless mod was acting as personal coach and cheerleader for the slot by relaying messages, they were talking about it after Nancy left.