Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Montosh]

Need to ISO:

- Otter
- Vork
- nom

(For my own memory)

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: montosh

[ofrhz]

sorry niko

[Kublai Khan]

@DeasVail - What happened to your LuckyOtter vote and case?

Creature is not known for his reliability at submitting night actions

Would you mind listing your history with Creature?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you also sound like a possible annoyed teammate. (Like, couldn't a town roleblocker be possible?)

Trying to get caught up. I'm really not liking the flashwagon on Jesus yesterday because of his "do you have a gun" comment. Like, did you all really think that was rolefishing? @LUV, roster, redflavor.

It could be role-fishing. Creature was role-fishing early on. What town reason does he have to ask?

I've mostly been TRing Kublai but I don't like his asking roster why he's moving his vote around. Votehopping D1 is obviously a thing and a lot of people were doing it in this game especially. Like, did you see roster doing it more than others, or more opportunistically than others? If you followed up on this I'm not seeing it.

Yes, he seemed to be doing it more than others. It's my general opinion that those who vote-hop weaken the pressure their vote imparts. In this case, nobody felt threatened or pressured by a rosterfoster vote, because he'll probably move it anyways. Flippant voters tend to be flippant because they have other ways to remove playes (NK) and a wide spread of votes keeps their association tells down. It's personality dependent of course, but I've never played with rosterfoster and don't know him.

Also, here is where I'm sitting after a re-read.
Lil Uzi Vert is likely town.
Nero Cain is likely town.
Alchemist21 is likely town.
LuckyOtter is likely town.
Nero Cain is likely town.
ofrhz is likely town.
nomnomnom is townside.
rosterfoster is townside
Montosh is townside
Jesus Louisus is ???.
DealVail is ???
RedFlavor is scum suspect.
Vorkuta is scum suspect.

[LuckyOtter]

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

But you voted him before, again quoting others, so you must have some opinion of him that you can articulate.

Reading the game would be a great idea, yes.

VOTE: redflavor

[LuckyOtter]

Trying to get caught up. I'm really not liking the flashwagon on Jesus yesterday because of his "do you have a gun" comment. Like, did you all really think that was rolefishing? @LUV, roster, redflavor.

It could be role-fishing. Creature was role-fishing early on. What town reason does he have to ask?

His comment read as a joke to me and the jumping on him seems suspect.

I've mostly been TRing Kublai but I don't like his asking roster why he's moving his vote around. Votehopping D1 is obviously a thing and a lot of people were doing it in this game especially. Like, did you see roster doing it more than others, or more opportunistically than others? If you followed up on this I'm not seeing it.

Yes, he seemed to be doing it more than others. It's my general opinion that those who vote-hop weaken the pressure their vote imparts. In this case, nobody felt threatened or pressured by a rosterfoster vote, because he'll probably move it anyways. Flippant voters tend to be flippant because they have other ways to remove playes (NK) and a wide spread of votes keeps their association tells down. It's personality dependent of course, but I've never played with rosterfoster and don't know him.

I mean at this point we're talking ideal strategy vs. scum intention. I don't really agree that votehopping D1 is that detrimental to voting power (I'd argue the opposite, really), and I don't see scum more likely to do it than town. It's not any better a strategy at keeping associatives down as, say, keeping a vote on just one or two people. Surface-level, the indecisiveness might look bad, but I'm not convinced it's more scum-telling than overconfidence.

What I'm getting at is that roster is feeling like lynchbait and that worries me, about your slot in particular.

[Kublai Khan]

What I'm getting at is that roster is feeling like lynchbait and that worries me, about your slot in particular.

Why? I'm not after rosterfoster. He's on the townside of my reads.

[LuckyOtter]

What I'm getting at is that roster is feeling like lynchbait and that worries me, about your slot in particular.

Why? I'm not after rosterfoster. He's on the townside of my reads.

You're still implying there might be something scummy about his voting pattern, though. Otherwise, why make the 'scramble' comment at all? Was his response to that sufficient for you?

[Kublai Khan]

What I'm getting at is that roster is feeling like lynchbait and that worries me, about your slot in particular.

Why? I'm not after rosterfoster. He's on the townside of my reads.

You're still implying there might be something scummy about his voting pattern, though. Otherwise, why make the 'scramble' comment at all? Was his response to that sufficient for you?

Neat. You ask me why I ask questions. I respond with the reason behind asking it (generally because there could be a scummy explanation), and you start accusing me of "still implying there might be something scummy".

Are you going to ask me if I've stopping beating my wife next?

[Nero Cain]

Kublai Khan beating his wives since 1230 AD.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Otter

[DeasVail]

Kublai, you worry me.

I'm becoming increasingly concerned that your posts "at" me are not actually genuine attempts to read me.

Your posts give me the distinct impression that if I hadn't called you out, your plan was to coast on that vote then switch to whoever was getting lynched if needed to avoid a NL.

For example, here, wouldn't it have made much more sense to wait and see if I was actually going to "coast on that vote then switch to whoever was getting lynched if needed to avoid a NL", before mentioning that it's what you're assuming I'm going to do? I was unlikely to be lynched Day 1 even if that was what you wanted, so why the rush to tell everyone about how my plan was to coast on the Otter vote so soon after I first mention my interest in lynching Otter? It would be a much more compelling, and logically sound, argument to wait until the Day ends and then, if I do as you expect, tell everyone about how I did a bad thing or whatever.

But you know what? I didn't think too much of this in isolation. People get excited, people get eager. It happens.

But then we get to...

@DeasVail - What happened to your LuckyOtter vote and case?

What the flying fox?

It's approx. 12 hours into the day phase at the time of your post, it doesn't take much effort to notice that I'm in Australia and realise that the Day started at 1am my time or whatever, and I made a single post questioning a post made shortly after night ended at 8:30amish my time...

So why are you asking that question? Why would anything have "happened" to my LuckyOtter vote and case?

Again, if you were interested in how my read of Otter progressed, I feel it would have made more sense to wait and see what happened.

Instead, you seem desperate to fling dirt at me before the dirt has even materialized. It's as if you're using whatever you can to build a scumread on me, but are not actually ready to commit to it (if your ??? read on me is anything to go by). And why not? To use your line, you've been around long enough to probably know that I was considered a strong town player back when I played more regularly. Have you been hesitant to go all in on me because of that? Have you been hoping that your ethereal dirt would get others to scumread me and do the work for you?

Convince me that I'm wrong.
(And also please explain your townread on Otter. My next post will be about him)

[DeasVail]

And now LuckyOtter.

I find it interesting that he commented on things during his catch-up, but never made any mention of my vote on him while he was V/LA.

Because I'm pretty sure my reaction would have been something along the lines of:

"DID YOU THINK YOU COULD GET AWAY WITH VOTING ME WHILE I WAS V/LA HUH!? HOW OPPORTUNISTIC!"

Okay that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but seriously. I kind of expect people to be at least a little bit self-consumed. After all, just look at my self-consumed concerns about Kublai!

Hey, I don't expect everyone to be exactly like me, but I find it odd that Otter talked about Jesus' gun comment, Nero saying that town shouldn't play like Roster did, and Kublai having an issue with roster moving his vote around (pretty innocuous things tbh) but not have anything to say about the big glaring elephant in the room of me voting for him. With the "commenting on things of interest to him" catch-up style, it seems unnatural that he didn't comment on that.

--

I also am generally underwhelmed by Lil Uzi Vert.

[Kublai Khan]

For example, here, wouldn't it have made much more sense to wait and see if I was actually going to "coast on that vote then switch to whoever was getting lynched if needed to avoid a NL", before mentioning that it's what you're assuming I'm going to do? I was unlikely to be lynched Day 1 even if that was what you wanted, so why the rush to tell everyone about how my plan was to coast on the Otter vote so soon after I first mention my interest in lynching Otter? It would be a much more compelling, and logically sound, argument to wait until the Day ends and then, if I do as you expect, tell everyone about how I did a bad thing or whatever.

Did you not notice I asked two other people about their position on Niko at the same time? I was convinced that Niko was scum and was worried that the wagon would stall out. If Niko flipped scum then I wanted to know how strongly you felt about your last-minute counter wagon attempt.

What the flying fox?

It's approx. 12 hours into the day phase at the time of your post, it doesn't take much effort to notice that I'm in Australia and realise that the Day started at 1am my time or whatever, and I made a single post questioning a post made shortly after night ended at 8:30amish my time...

So why are you asking that question? Why would anything have "happened" to my LuckyOtter vote and case?

Why did you react to a prompt like it was an accusation? I legit want to know more about your case because I had just finished re-reading the game and I noted that I never really got a satisfactory resolution to something I wondered about 5 RL days ago.

Instead, you seem desperate to fling dirt at me before the dirt has even materialized. It's as if you're using whatever you can to build a scumread on me, but are not actually ready to commit to it (if your ??? read on me is anything to go by). And why not? To use your line, you've been around long enough to probably know that I was considered a strong town player back when I played more regularly. Have you been hesitant to go all in on me because of that? Have you been hoping that your ethereal dirt would get others to scumread me and do the work for you?

Convince me that I'm wrong.
(And also please explain your townread on Otter. My next post will be about him)

That was a big post of over defensive horseshit. I just finished a big re-read of the game with the flips in mind. One of the last things was me noting your wishy-washy play and nothing that I don't really understand where you're coming from. And since I don't understand your motivations, you make me feel uneasy. I don't have a case on you (and I'm not trying to build one), but you're a wild card of "could go either way".

Let me put it another way, since you asked me about my LuckyOtter townread. I see LuckyOtter making questions/inquiries/observations that serve to inform him or note something. It feels like town building a small knowledge base or which to inform themselves of future reads. He's asking "why?" questions about reasonable things to ascertain motivation. He's working to piece together the puzzle of this game and build some footing in the middle of unknown miasmas. That's solid town behavior.

On the other hand, your posts play up your uncertainties about things. They are packed with what you are unsure about or don't know know or how helpless you feel about things. You seem to hide behind the vagaries of "feelings". Now, you could be town and totally honest about your apprehensions, but you don't seem to have much drive to confirm or investigate them. To me it just seems like you are hedging and putting out weak reads where you can't really be nailed down, because there's no concrete feeling. Your latest posts are over-defensive and totally self-centered. "HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME!?" is the strongest and most genuine position you've taken all game. It's stronger than your LuckyOtter case, which is now about what LuckyOtter didn't do post-vote. Nothing about why you voted for the first time. Are you moving the goalposts?

[Nero Cain]

Nero saying that town shouldn't play like Roster did

I didn't. I know someone (otter?) asked me if that was about Niko or Roster and it was obviously Niko

[Nero Cain]

although my tinfoil rn is

montosh + roster + ????


Also, Niko is an idiot

[Nero Cain]

like I know no one is gonna sheep me and prob not agree with me and Montosh will brush it off

but looking back at my joke reveal of the scum team

Jesus show us the mafia please.

rosterfoster
ofrhz
BodhiSmith13

Creature

and scum actually flipping from that list. Kinda makes me think

Jesus show us the mafia please.

rosterfoster
ofrhz
BodhiSmith13
Creature

I have a Townlean on Nero

GET. OFF. OF. ME. *pushes*

Trying too hard. This is scum. Luckily I'm already voting here.

Also, all these people are town except Creature.

He hasn't posted and is therefore confscum.

was not as much as a joke as he claims.

[Nero Cain]

Also, Montosh seemed to disappear after the heat from that early posting died down.

[nomnomnom]

Also all these people are town except Creature. He hasn't posted and is therefore confscum.

I have to admit, THAT is a pretty stellar quote lol

[Nero Cain]

it's like how players claim scum as scum these days. Could Montosh just have been scum truth-telling here?

[Eyes without a face]

@Nero: why would Monty Python (heh. I am becoming a WORM) reveal that Creature was the only scum of the 4 if he was informed of their alignments already. Wouldn't it have looked better for him to stop at all these people are town?

In my view if Montosh is scum then at least one other scum is on that list (makes sense to try to discredit you if that's the case). Or he could be just town who had reasons to TR the other 3 and made the joke about Creature's lack of activity and hit the bull's eye.

[Nero Cain]

Wouldn't it have looked better for him to stop at all these people are town?

but then he's not truth-telling.

In my view if Montosh is scum then at least one other scum is on that list (makes sense to try to discredit you if that's the case).

I sorta agree but then you aren't getting the novelty of truth-telling.

Or he could be just town who had reasons to TR the other 3 and made the joke about Creature's lack of activity and hit the bull's eye.

at least one other person had not yet posted and town reading Roster for 13, 24 and 25 is just bizarre so prob not.

[Nero Cain]

oh, 27 too.

[Jesus Louisus]

Trying to get caught up. I'm really not liking the flashwagon on Jesus yesterday because of his "do you have a gun" comment. Like, did you all

really

think that was rolefishing? @LUV, roster, redflavor.

I've mostly been TRing Kublai but I don't like his asking roster why he's moving his vote around. Votehopping D1 is obviously a thing and a lot of people were doing it in this game especially. Like, did you see roster doing it

more

than others, or more opportunistically than others? If you followed up on this I'm not seeing it.

I was away during all of Niko's existence here, so going to slog through that now.

Idk I didn't vote for that
VOTE: Jesus Louisus

Then why vote me now?

[Jesus Louisus]

No I voted because that wagon was becoming a thing.
That being said, I didn't read the game but I might read this tomorrow because it is possible.

Oh, so you just sheep.

So who are you sheeping now?