Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[Nero Cain]

Alch is your top scumread and im second behind him? I do seem pretty high up there.

I haven't really looked at names yet but I'm putting some stock into the d1 wagon on creature, the d1 wagon on red and the early d2 wagon (pops and before) all being town and his buddies being on none of them.

[Jesus Louisus]

Alch is your top scumread and im second behind him? I do seem pretty high up there.

I haven't really looked at names yet but I'm putting some stock into the d1 wagon on creature, the d1 wagon on red and the early d2 wagon (pops and before) all being town and his buddies being on none of them.

You are 2nd behind him in my scum list wrt only considering the people on creatures wagon.

[Jesus Louisus]

Also, Iirc the only people still alive on that wagon are me, you, Alch and vork.

[Nero Cain]

hrmmmm....

[Nero Cain]

I haven't really looked at names yet but I'm putting some stock into the d1 wagon on creature, the d1 wagon on red and the early d2 wagon (pops and before) all being town and his buddies being on none of them.

this doesn't really stack up since RF

WAS

sitting on Creature wagon.

but let's just do a thought experiment and say that red sitting on Creature was an outliner. TBF, Red was voting Creature in 1.6 but got off once the wagon was serious in 1.7

Creature

(7)

pisskop

,

RedFlavor

,

Vorkuta,Kop,Nero Cain,rosterfoster,Jesus Louisus

,

RedFlavor

(8)

LuckyOtter,Jesus Louisus,popsofctown

,rosterfoster,nomnomnom,Alchemist21,Kublai Khan,

Nero Cain

,

so we are left with

ofrhz
Alchemist21
DeasVail
nomnomnom
Kublai Khan
Montosh
Kirari Momobami

im kinda town reading all of KK, alchem and deas which would then leave us with

ofrhz
nomnomnom
Montosh
Kirari Momobami

and that

DOES

sound like a good list (at least IMO) to find the last two remaining scum.

[Jesus Louisus]

Ofr
Montosh
Kir
Nom

That's how I would order your list. Scum at the top.

[Nero Cain]

Do you think that there's merit to my logic?

[Jesus Louisus]

Do you think that there's merit to my logic?

Yeah I do. I mean it's full of WIFOM but what isn't at this point.
That being said it's as good as anything to kick the day off and get rolling.

VOTE: ofrhz

[Nero Cain]

its only WIFOM if I'm scum and I'm not so it means I'm coming from a place of genuinely attempted town solving. If you mean WIFOM in the sence that some of the ppl that I think are town could be scum then yeah, there's a possibility of that.

I think nom's SK spec or w/e is scummy.

I still don't like how Montosh "joked" that I was scummy and that Creature was scum.

I don't like kirari at all and I think all animae alts should be lynched and permabanned but I also dislike her town reading Montosh and voting for Red yesterday after I hammered.

you can ISO for why I was scum reading ofrhz d1 and I don't remember anything she's done.

[Kirari Momobami]

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT 1.5
HeWhoSwims(5)Kublai Khan,ofrhz,Vorkuta,Jesus Louisus,LuckyOtter,
Not Voting(4)

EvilDeanius

,BodhiSmith13,

Kop

,Lil Uzi Vert,

Creature

(1)

pissKop

,

EvilDeanius

(1)Montosh,

pissKop

(1)rosterfoster,
Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,
rosterfoster(1)Alchemist21,
Vorkuta(1)

Creature

,
SaudadeLil Uzi Vert(1)Kirari Momobami,
Montosh(1)Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus(1)

Red Flavor

VOTE COUNT 1.6

Creature

(7)

pissKop

,

Red Flavor

,Vorkuta,

Kop

,Nero Cain,rosterfoster,Jesus Louisus,
HeWhoSwims(3)Kublai Khan,ofrhz,LuckyOtter,
Not Voting(3)

EvilDeanius

,BodhiSmith13,Lil Uzi Vert,

EvilDeanius

(1)Montosh,
Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,
rosterfoster(1)Alchemist21,
Vorkuta(1)

Creature

SaudadeLil Uzi Vert(1)Kirari Momobami,

VOTE COUNT 1.9

Kop

Niko

(5)Kirari Momobami,

Eyes without a Face

,ofrhz,Nero Cain,Kublai Khan,
Vorkuta(4)Montosh,

pissKop

,

Niko

,

Red Flavor

Creature

(3)Vorkuta,Jesus Louisus,Alchemist21,
HeWhoSwims(2)LuckyOtter,rosterfoster,
Jesus Louisus(1)Lil Uzi Vert,
Not Voting(1)DeasVail,
Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,

Red Flavor

(1)

Creature

VOTE COUNT 1.FINAL

Kop

Niko

(10)Kirari Momobami,

Eyes without a Face

,ofrhz,Nero Cain,Kublai Khan,Lil Uzi Vert,Jesus Louisus,Montosh,Alchemist21,rosterfoster,

EvilDeanius

Eyes without a Face

(1)

Niko

,
rosterfoster(1)

pissKop

,

Creature

(1)Vorkuta,
HeWhoSwims(1)LuckyOtter,
Jesus Louisus(1)

Red Flavor

Nero Cain(1)HeWhoSwims,

Red Flavor

Creature

LuckyOtter(1)DeasVail,


VOTE COUNT 2.2
Jesus Louisus(4)

Red Flavor

Eyes without a Face

,ofrhz,Kublai Khan,

EvilDeanius

Eyes without a Face

(4)rosterfoster,Jesus Louisus,nomnomnom,popsofctown,
Not Voting(2)Vorkuta,Montosh,
Vorkuta(2)Kirari Momobami,DeasVail,
rosterfoster(1)Alchemist21,

Red Flavor

(1)LuckyOtter,
Montosh(1)Nero Cain,


VOTE COUNT 2.FINAL

Red Flavor

(8)LuckyOtter,Jesus Louisus,popsofctown,rosterfoster,nomnomnom,Alchemist21,Kublai Khan,Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus(2)

Red Flavor

ofrhz,
Not Voting(2)Vorkuta,Montosh,
Vorkuta(1)Kirari Momobami,
rosterfoster(1)

Eyes without a Face

,
SaudadeLil Uzi Vertpopsofctown(1)DeasVail,

Yeah VCA doesn't strongly reinforce my reads
There's no way EoD1 was pure town on Niko, 0 flips on the entire back half of the Niko wagon is a bit concerning although obviously the scum had incentive to sit on their vanities if they thought it might go through on its own which was the case for the two flipped scum

0 flips so far on the 4 on eyes in 2.2

and it would be very surprising if otter was the only bus on RedFlavor

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't like kirari at all and I think all animae alts should be lynched and permabanned

wow

[Nero Cain]

now whats your response to my real reasoning?

[Kirari Momobami]

I feel like scumreading someone that pushes back on a correct joke scumread on scum is more likely to be scum but that is convoluted logic and you're welcome to disagree. Still, I think ofhrz actually made a decent point here that:

I was almost gonna say "Hi Skitter" to you

Red and Montosh are probably not scum together

since she's right that's a kinda too awkward to be s/s interaction

ofrhz also got spooked by the speed of the wagon on Red in day 1, which I think is more likely to be a town reaction to the over-eagerness of the push on Red by you/fast claim, etc. Yes, scum can try to hard defend a buddy for that reason, but it happens relatively infrequently I wanna say because scum is hyperaware of how that will look

I'm kinda okay with your nom read tho tbh

[Kirari Momobami]

I feel like scumreading someone that pushes back on a correct joke scumread on scum is more likely to be scum

tongue tied myself here

ebwop: "more likely to be town"

[DeasVail]

DeasVail -- between the DV/LO 1v1 I think I'd do LO first since I liked DV's reads early game, but that feeling has waned a bit. I don't like 708 as much as I did on day 1 since he paired me with creature which is the kind of "let's put my scum townread with a town in case I flip so it's not obvious" thing you see from scum a lot, also so much of the iso is irt LO I'm kinda... hmm

oh by the way for what it's worth the reason I paired you with Creature was because you had both claimed/soft-claimed stuff and my plan was to wait for further info before considering either of you as scum.

--

As for where I'm at from a quick glance through,

Town: Pops, Kublai, roster, Alch
Less Town: Nero Cain, Kirari, ofrhz
Less Scum: Montosh, nomnom, Jesus
Scum: Vorkuta, Otter

My first thought is that I kinda townread the twilight posting from Kirari and ofrhz?
In the case of Kirari, the vote on Red after he was obviously hammered is pretty weird from scum and seems more jokey than anything else.
And with ofrhz, my expectation is that she would realise her buddy was hammered and avoid doing some weird waffly pseudo-defense.
Buttt I'm going to think these through more when I'm not about to sleep because my usual approach to townreading people has not really held up so far here.

I do generally disagree with the blanket wagon clearing also. I think that the way that someone votes a person (and the situation) can be pretty town-indicative, but the Creature wagon in particular is not something I believe scum would have necessarily avoided. In particular my Vorkuta concern is that they were cheerleading that wagon without actually contributing to it.

I'll be giving this more thought tomorrow morning.

[DeasVail]

ofrhz also got spooked by the speed of the wagon on Red in day 1, which I think is more likely to be a town reaction to the over-eagerness of the push on Red by you/fast claim, etc. Yes, scum can try to hard defend a buddy for that reason, but it happens relatively infrequently I wanna say because scum is hyperaware of how that will look

at least I'm not the only one that was thinking it!

[Kirari Momobami]

Not identical lists but close enough I'm feeling a ~ little bit of mindmeld with DV here

[Nero Cain]

It's kinda hard to imagine a scum motivation on either side there

I mean the guy's reaction to a fake reads list was "you're scum that's"haha just a joke!" trying to hard" and "creature is obvscum" "haha just a joke" "guys it was said in RVS so it was clearly a joke!"

maybe there's a lack of scum motivation but there's also a lack of town motivation. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that his calling "creature obvscum" was intentional WIFOM. And him trying to write off the pressure as an RVS joke was p scummy too.

Also, he's been a useless lurk sack since then so it just seems like he's scum lurking it out.

[Kirari Momobami]

Hmm maybe. But if he's the type that's gonna softbus one of his partners at the start of day 1 is that the same personality/disposition of someone that's going to implode if his buddies actually get lynched?

You could be right, I don't really know Montosh, I haven't meta'd him, I just read your interaction where you both got hung up on specific words and minute details and thought it read really t/t, like it's town by virtue of being picky and pedantic in a phase of the game where that level of pedantry is more likely to come from town I think. Maybe Montosh is someone who likes to pick fights as scum though. You could be right, I just don't see it right now.

[Nero Cain]

Hmm maybe. But if he's the type that's gonna softbus one of his partners at the start of day 1 is that the same personality/disposition of someone that's going to implode if his buddies actually get lynched?

I have no clue what this is.

[Kirari Momobami]

did I miss part of your thought experiment in 1629? I don't understand why you greened otter

[Kirari Momobami]

Hmm maybe. But if he's the type that's gonna softbus one of his partners at the start of day 1 is that the same personality/disposition of someone that's going to implode if his buddies actually get lynched?

I have no clue what this is.

You're saying he joke-argued creature was "confscum" for not posting [i.e., soft bussing] but then that he imploded recently when his scum team actually started dropping [i.e., turned into a lurksack]

[Nero Cain]

tbf, he was a lurksack b4 Creature even died lol. And I don't think one precludes the other. He can't softbus

AND

be a useless lurksack. WTF kinda logic is that?

[Nero Cain]

did I miss part of your thought experiment in 1629? I don't understand why you greened otter

I don't understand how you could miss it.

[Kirari Momobami]

tbf, he was a lurksack b4 Creature even died lol. And I don't think one precludes the other. He can't softbus

AND

be a useless lurksack. WTF kinda logic is that?

I'm not really saying he can't, I just feel like people who are gonna bus early are not usually the people who are going to stop posting if their buddies get lynched? But I guess it was a pretty soft bus so *shrug*

You're right it'd be nice to get some solid analysis from him today