Role Call I (Game Over)

[Saudade]

VOTE: for yeah i dont mind being powerless

[Saudade]

My tongue is my strongest weapon

[Nero Cain]

it makes you unable to post for the rest of the game.

What the fuck no

of course im kidding, dillhole

What kind of jesus are you

a not so nice one

[Gamma Emerald]

I've noticed LUV seems to be selectively engaging with people

[Titus]

I'm ok being a compulsive quitter. Not sure if I am the best or if I die permanently. But I'd be around for VCA if I understand

[apthet]

I've noticed LUV seems to be selectively engaging with people

How so? I looked at his iso and didn't get that impression.

[apthet]

What. This sounds to me like a serious accusation to bring into a game. If this is true that is despicable and possibly a trust tell. Why did you replace in knowing this? Why the hell is this an accusation you're making in public and not with the game mod? Can anyone back this up? Does callforjudgement need to be involved?

Titus can you talk more about this?

[Gamma Emerald]

I've noticed LUV seems to be selectively engaging with people

How so? I looked at his iso and didn't get that impression.

He responds to certain people quite a lot imo

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Theme games aint competitive but a chill lounge so giving me the mute role is out of the question for me

Where have you gotten this impression from?

[momo]

This is the second iteration. I made minor changes overall. I still haven't changed the stronger roles though.

Timid = Hidden Happiness (Shadoweh/MariaR hydra)
Vanilla = Iconeum
Inventor = popsofctown
Day 5 Innocent Child = Oversoul
Miller = apthet
Neighbour = Nero Cain
1-shot Gladiator = momo
Day 3 King = Vecna
Night 1 Universal Backup = CheekyTeeky
Neighbour = Almost50
Odd-Night Motion Detector = Gamma Emerald
Macho = Lil Uzi Vert
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Sothis Stefon Styx (RadiantCowbells/Baezu hydra)

Timid = Lil Uzi Vert?
Vanilla = Oversoul
Inventor = ?
Day 5 Innocent Child = CheekyTeeky
Miller = Momo
Neighbour = ?
1-shot Gladiator = popsofctown
Day 3 King = ?
Night 1 Universal Backup = Hidden Happiness
Neighbour = Vecna
Odd-Night Motion Detector = apthet
Macho = Gamma Emerald
Inactive = Saudade
Compulsive Quitter = Sothis Stefon Styx

This is what I have so far.

If RC is scum, then HH is likely scum.

That means giving HH universal backup results in us allowing scum to choose which power they want.

[momo]

it makes you unable to post for the rest of the game.

What the fuck no

VOTE: against

Punkass cow moomoo go eat grass

If you took the time to read the opening post, you would that this is not what inactive does.

[Saudade]

Theme games aint competitive but a chill lounge so giving me the mute role is out of the question for me

Where have you gotten this impression from?

its what I decided for myself

[momo]

If we are talking about roles, I think I would want one shot gladiator. I could solve the game with that role Day 2.

how?

This was kind of a joke just to get me a fun role but it was based in truth to.

It starts with the D1 lynch and the D1 NK. Hard busing early game is rare, and shifts in tone are common but can be highly indicative of alignment. The RC flip tells us a lot. If scum we can build associations. I highly doubt that he is town, but if he is, that tells us a lot too. (Don't want to get into this too much rn so that the scum team can't manipulate the NK into making us think one way).

Vecna is right when he says giving me gladiator can get me lynched. But it's only a one shot ability so the risk is only in the early game. If RC flips scum and I'm NKd N1, the town knows to go after HH. If RC flips town and I'm NK'd N1, chances are that the other reads that I have presented to the town are off too. That said, this could lead to some WIFOM shenanigans from scum, and it will be up to the remaining town to figure out what happened.

As for the gladiator ability, if RC flips scum, I use it first thing tmmrw if I'm alive. This gets us the HH lynch and I agree to take a weaker role tmmrw, which as Vecna said, makes Night Killing me a harder decision. If I die and RC's scum, HH gets lynched anyway.

If I'm alive and RC flips town, my scum reads become much less favorable to the town, and my position weakens considerably. I can use the gladiator to reach a decision that we likely wouldn't otherwise. The fact of the matter is, if RC flips town, then scum is likely being townread rn. (I'm well aware that this could include me).

If I die and RC flips town, when the town sees my townflip, the obvious conclusion becomes that scum support my lynch on RC. This means that the scum are well placed (as confirmed by my TR) and viewing people's interactions with me can help y'all determine who supported me into lynching RC early, and which of those people are scum.

After that, solving the game becomes much easier.

(Note that I have included all 4 possibilities of me with gladiator [alive/dead X RC town/RC scum]).

[momo]

Theme games aint competitive but a chill lounge so giving me the mute role is out of the question for me

Where have you gotten this impression from?

its what I decided for myself

This is ultimately an opinion but as someone who is planning to play exclusively themes for the foreseeable future, games with special mechanics can be very competitive and offer and a different level of analysis than normal mafia.

But it's whatever. Your choice how you play.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

There’s nothing I’m terribly afraid of scum having there Momo.

[momo]

There’s nothing I’m terribly afraid of scum having there Momo.

what does this mean? like i have no idea what you're saying?

[Saudade]

I think he's talking about the roles,
dont be silly momo

[momo]

There’s nothing I’m terribly afraid of scum having there Momo.

I think he's talking about the roles,
dont be silly momo

Then I wouldn't want to give scum inventor cause they can activate hero and make us lynch someone else when we have identified them.

i don't want to give scum gladiator because that means they are town read and can force a mislynch.

i don't want scum to get king because d3 PRs will probs be nice and scum will take the best ones.

and i want at least one TR in the neighborhood to help us get reads.

and i don't want scum to get d5 IC because then we will be pressured to keep them alive that long.

[Saudade]

Whooooaaaa come with me now
im gonna take you down

[momo]

Welcome to the game apthet. My thoughts on this post in

yellow.

Early on for me Saudade is a scumread. I think he falls neatly into the archetype of confident, relaxed scum who wants to get through the early game smoothly and position himself well. 71 seems kind of all-around not a good post. I don't like the way he presented his thought (the shower thing seems extraneous in the way the scum would like people to think they're engaging with the game) nor do I like the thought itself (the first thing I did was think "what role would my original role synergize with the most" and I think that anyone who isn't vanilla would also think of that).

This is good analysis. Many ppl in game are SRing Saudude rn but I don't think this reasoning has been brought up before. The broadness of this post made me think of it as shaky and it's good to see someone else articulating that.

I don't really know what to make of Vecna. That statement about "let's just let people do what they want, it makes for a more interesting game" seems like a town sentiment but I don't really see why town would feel motivated to type that out and press Submit. My heart is telling me that this is a town thing to say though.

More on this later.

Here's a new strategy: Let's all in to games we know we won't play. Like, if you're on a holiday. or if you have exams, or you have a new job.. you're wedding is within a week.. etc.

I'm guessing you're not American, then.

people have already said this

170 is like, moving unusually rapidly into WIFOM it feels like. Reads to me like a bit of an overreaction.

the referencing another game and shrugging it of annoyed me too...i prefer if town engages with each other

If apthet is going to take Friday off from work and combine the weekend into a 5 day vacation I'm definitely with you, though, I missed Pokémon Ruby Mafia because I knew I had a 1 week vacation coming up.

You're in luck. I'm one of three people in my office right now.

momo's big list in 187 is a good way to anchor my thoughts. First of all, good effort. Regardless of momo's alignment I think he makes a lot of intelligent points. One thing I do like that his strongest townread on Vecna is just a shrug as far as justification goes. It feels right to me and something that scum faking a readslist would not easily think of doing.
Other things...

This right here is my biggest problem with you so far. You say that me giving Vecna a TR from my gut is a very towny thing to do, but in the same post you did the same thing. This seems like you're trying to draw a parallel and portray yourself as town. This is a red flag imo.

• Almost50 is leaning slightly scum for me at this point. Good to know about the tone meta thing, though. momo I'd appreciate if you could link a few games that made you think this (also serving the dual purpose of holding you accountable to these claims).
  
• I like his justification for the Iconeum read.
  
• Lil Uzi Vert is a nullread for me. I'm not sold on the neighbors being town as too anti-scum for scum to propose. Would need to see more from him.
  
• I don't know what to make of RC. RC, the game I played with you, you were far more engaged as town even when mentioning that you were probably going to get nightkilled and whatnot, and its weird to see you sort of prematurely turn away from this game for the same reason. Why is this game different for you?
  
• I don't agree with the Oversoul read but I don't necessarily have any reasons to think he's town. I have no experience with him but my intuition tells me he is kind of a person who has a naturally scummy tone.
  
  I've come around to switching my read on him later in this game.
  
  
• I'm with you on Saudade though.
  
• Also, I'm a she.

I don't like the way popsofctown shuts down the preflip associatives in 194. I think it fits with the archetype of scum that is focused on seeming to be rational, picking holes in arguments and lines of questioning here and there to look helpful. I also think that momo's theory is the focal point of the game at this point and his only response is to shut it down.

206 reads as a post I would make in his situation as town.

It seems like momo and RC have some kind of history and that's informing this argument? RC feels really different from the game I played with him. I get the sense he feels very emotionally different about this game and I feel like there are layers to peel back: my brain says momo is on the townier side of the argument but I feel like I can't commit to that. In any case, that back and forth was vaguely unpleasant to read.

This is what surprised me too, largely because I don't have any history with RC. Like I don't know him on a personal level. Rn, my theory is that he made one mistake (choosing to lurk and manipulating his meta), got called out on it, and it snowballed from there.

I already think momo's proposed scumteam isn't very good so I'm ok with them being ejected

What. This statement is ridiculous. Bless your heart.

again something people have already said

Rc quits when it effects his win percentage but that's not role related

What.

This sounds to me like a serious accusation to bring into a game. If this is true that is despicable and possibly a trust tell. Why did you replace in knowing this? Why the hell is this an accusation you're making in public and not with the game mod? Can anyone back this up? Does callforjudgement need to be involved?

this is a legitamate concern...idk, i think he's reading the game so he'll probably know if he wants to take action...but just in case

@mod^^^....if vecna can find his game this has happened to him, kinda happened once in a game i replaced into, and might have happened here, but we could be wrong...

Also, Vecna's posts on page 15 all feel very good.

honestly, i'm not very sure yet how i read you...scummy elements are there, but so are town....speaking of, this made me think about something

[Saudade]

I think you are reading into this very surface level and this kind of play could come easily as either alignment, and fact that you are giving it an alignment indicative read is, well, stupid =]

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Vote: Against willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good here

[popsofctown]

why can't voting work like it did in 2008

[apthet]

This right here is my biggest problem with you so far. You say that me giving Vecna a TR from my gut is a very towny thing to do, but in the same post you did the same thing. This seems like you're trying to draw a parallel and portray yourself as town. This is a red flag imo.

Let me explain more what I meant here. I think that someone who is going through the effort to convincingly construct a fake readslist with extensive evidence pulling from logic and meta and whatnot would naturally fall into the mindset of "my strongest reads should be the most justified by evidence." I think that going against that instinct requires scum to actively choose to make that decision. Possible but in my opinion seems unlikely. Having a gutread is not a town thing in itself. (I mean, theoretically they should be the easiest and most convenient for scum to fake.)

I think that contextually, the fact that your gutread also happened to be the strongest one makes me believe that your readslist is real: it seems to me like it doesn't necessarily follow the logic of the written word, if that makes sense. You made me believe that those reads were coming from your heart.

My thoughts on Vecna at the time of responding to your list really boiled down to one post that stuck out to me. Now, interestingly enough, he does happen to be a stronger townread for me too, but that's because of more recent posts.

[popsofctown]

I played One Night Ultimate Werewolf with my roommate and some friends last night and tried to explain that the rulebook says the troublemaker "may" exchange two other player's alignments, so I refused to use the ability since it's anti-town, but I was actually town troublemaker. My roommate said that was very logical but what about something from my heart. I said the odds I was not a werewolf were currently 25% with current gamestate information. I was told once again that that was not from the heart. Then I was mislynched and lost.