Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #12

the worst/Oversoul (1) - Dunnstral (397)

OkaPoka (4) (L-1) - skitter30 (191), Oversoul (404), callforjudgement (417), TemporalLich (425)

Dunnstral (0) -
Kop (0) -
skitter30 (1) - Firebringer (279)
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), OkaPoka (164)
Not Voting (1) - SweetNSassy/Kop

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 1 will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. skitter30 is V/LA until Sunday, July 7.
4. Sleepless Assassin is V/LA until Monday, July 8.
5. Oversoul replaces the worst.
6. Kop replaces SweetNSassy.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[OkaPoka]

and if you are asking why im not being an active pusher (my definition)

its because sweetnsassy isnt doing anything. once that slot starts doing something then ill try and canvas the two votes of dunn and the_worst and maybe canvas the vote of firebringer

but then again they have their own brains and if they dont feel like that lich post was scummy then i dont know what to say other than its scummy

Did you change your mind since this post?

Yeah.

At the time I was banking on engaging with the worst and maybe getting a full sort that way but now I'm going to do things more independently.

[skitter30]

he worst seems to be coasting somewhat, although I guess it could just be the general lack of effort? His read progression on Oka is weird (placing a vote, leaving it there in the apparent hope the wagon goes through, saying "I need to talk to Oka" (and Oka doing the opposite) and them missing each other for quite a bit of realtime,

I'm not sure any of this is ai for him really

[skitter30]

VOTE: Oka

Had u read the game before posting?

[skitter30]

also grats on being the first person to actually recognize the difference between my singleball and multiball range lol

@temporal why am i town?

What is the difference?

P hard for me to realistically fake scumhunting in singleball

[skitter30]

Skitter, have you noticed people getting more suspicious of you since that scummy banner went live?

No, it started happening before that

[skitter30]

CFJ’s play is almost too analytical for me. Hmm. I do appreciate his forthright nature though.

Town reads on Skitter, Firebringer
Town lean on Dunstral and CFJ
Scum lean on Sleepless and Sassy. Not sure if this is because of their awol nature though
Scum read on Oka

Why is fire town?
I think sa is town too

[skitter30]

This post from Skitter looks really townie. I don't think scum would acknowledge how quickly the wagon ballooned and essentially deflate it. I disagree with the overall logic of the post because it assumes that scum would never vote for their partners. Unless Oka and Skitter are scum together, I do not think Skitter would make this post.

Nah, i would - it's p easy to fake this sort of gamestate read

[skitter30]

VOTE: OkaPoka (L-2)

I like Oversoul's reasoning for the town reads. I get the feeling that the reads are genuine (and if Oversoul is scum, are therefore based on forgetting what he knows about players' alignments and trying to read in a disinterested way, or possibly even a slip).

I'm still a bit suspicious about the scumreads, though (especially the read on Sleepless Assassin; there should be enough information pre-V/LA for the V/LA to not make that much difference, so lumping him together with SnS in a reads list is just weird). the worst's alleged strongest scumread was on me, and yet it wasn't much of a scumread, so I imagine that the worst was assuming that scum was most likely in the unsorted players. If we take the positiion of SnS on the reads list as a baseline for a no-info read (to me, she's obviously a newbie that can't get into the game, something that I consider completely null), Oversoul's reads list isn't all that different.

Nonetheless, this pushes Oversoul back below OkaPoka for my strongest scumread (also, unlike the worst, Oversoul is likely to become more readable as the game goes on, which is a good reason not to lynch there D1).

I actually dont much like this post

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Oka

Had u read the game before posting?

I had skimmed the game

CFJ’s play is almost too analytical for me. Hmm. I do appreciate his forthright nature though.

Town reads on Skitter, Firebringer
Town lean on Dunstral and CFJ
Scum lean on Sleepless and Sassy. Not sure if this is because of their awol nature though
Scum read on Oka

Why is fire town?
I think sa is town too

I think you, fire, and CFJ have been the ones most actively trying to figure things out in the game. In general, I think scum are more likely to post less frequently, lurk, give undeveloped thoughts, etc. I did not see that much from either of you three. That is my general impression.

For FB, it is similar to my reasoning to town read you. FB was a part of the Dunnstral wagon and he also noticed how fast that wagon got to L-1. He acknowledged it and unvoted in 111. I found that post in particular to be fairly townie because if scum, why not just let his vote sit there and coast, or better yet, get a lolhammer. Additionally, he changed his vote to you - a person he suspected in 66, 72, and 75. All of those interactions combined present a scumhunting thought process that I view as townie. It is possible that FB and Dunn are partners and that is why FB backed off the wagon, but it is ay too early in the game for me to even attempt to say that with any degree of certainty. Plus, I find his refusal to join the Oka wagon to be townie. I think scumFirebringer could very easily tack on a vote to Oka and just enjoy generally being town read. Again, it is possible that Firebringer is scum with Oka and thus does not want that wagon to go through, but like that too is still too early to determine.

What is your opinion of Kop? I don't love 463 because that seems like an easy post to make if scum. That said, I do think that 464 shows original thinking that so far has not been leveraged against Oka (leading wagon). Maybe I have a different idea of how scum would handle an Oka!town wagon.

[callforjudgement]

I'm pretty sure that most scum would, if replacing in, look for excuses to push a hypothetically town OkaPoka to claim or lynch. (A minority of scum would instead decide to hard-defend him; I don't much see the point in this scum strategy, but I've seen it tried often enough to be aware it exists.)

[Oversoul]

I'm pretty sure that most scum would, if replacing in, look for excuses to push a hypothetically town OkaPoka to claim or lynch. (A minority of scum would instead decide to hard-defend him; I don't much see the point in this scum strategy, but I've seen it tried often enough to be aware it exists.)

I agree with that analysis. My other thought on the Oka wagon is that it has had a mostly hard time gaining traction, which points to it more likely being on scum.

[callforjudgement]

Yeah.

At the time I was banking on engaging with the worst and maybe getting a full sort that way but now I'm going to do things more independently.

Hmm.

As town, which of the three town skills (forming reads, pushing reads, being easy for other players to read you) do you value the most?

[OkaPoka]

Forming reads but I'm probs best at pushing reads

[OkaPoka]

Flipping me is helpful probably but my wagon is definitely not hard to gain traction.

With a multitude of slots being afk and kop indicating the formation of sr and the Reformation of scum me it's actually pretty fast especially with a gamestate as lackluster as this one

[callforjudgement]

I guess what's confusing me is a) you don't look town and b) you pretty much obviously don't

care

about looking town, something that means that I find it hard to be confident in my read despite how scummily you've been acting. The latter is an unusual characteristic from both town and scum. (It's also the sort of thing that makes me want to check your scum meta, but it's 1am here so that'll have to wait until I'm more alert.)

(Re: your wagon, I'm not surprised it's gaining votes, but I'd expect scum to be pushing it harder if you were town. "Scum is AFK" could be a good explanation for that, but everyone has been active recently except Sleepless Assassin who is probably town.)

[skitter30]

not fake

only forced in the sense that some of the reads were less developed then i want them to be

i can do an updated readslist if u want or would u prefer me to talk to you in the context of that post

An updated readslist would be nice

[skitter30]

not fake

only forced in the sense that some of the reads were less developed then i want them to be

i can do an updated readslist if u want or would u prefer me to talk to you in the context of that post

Didn't quite like that you put FB in the middle, then someone calls it, you move it a few posts later. Your mindset should really be made to where you want people than someone questioning it and your attempting to appease by moving that slot.

I'm confused - who do u think oka is appeasing there?

[skitter30]

What is your opinion of Kop? I don't love 463 because that seems like an easy post to make if scum. That said, I do think that 464 shows original thinking that so far has not been leveraged against Oka (leading wagon). Maybe I have a different idea of how scum would handle an Oka!town wagon.

I really have no thoughts on him whatsoever

[callforjudgement]

(PEDIT: re #490)

Or to put that last point a different way: there's a difference between a wagon growing because it's being pushed and a wagon growing because that's where most people have their strongest scumread, but they came to that conclusion without being talked into it.

In this case, I think I'm the only person who's really trying to talk about the development of their read on Oka, and in my case, I guess I'm more hoping that other people will help me sort (e.g. point out something I missed or a mistake in my reasoning) than I am hoping that other people will be persuaded and join me. There are things that give me pause without being all that persuasive, e.g. I would expect Firebringer to be better at reading OkaPoka than I am, and so if Firebringer is town, that makes OkaPoka more likely to be town too. On the other hand, pretty much all the logical evidence seems to point to Oka not playing like a townie would.

[OkaPoka]

Meh scum usually don't hard push d1 from my experience


It's like they try to put the minimum amount of effort to mislynch.

Updates readslist later when I'm not on mobile

[OkaPoka]

I'll try mobile list since it might be a few hours

Town: me + firebringer + skitter + cjf(tho will need a reeval)
Null: sleepless assassin + kop + oversoul
Scum: Dunn + lich

There is going to differentiation in the tiers but yeah

[TemporalLich]

I think a Firebringer/Oka scumteam is possible.

[Firebringer]

oka I kind of feel weird about ur townread on me...I mean idk I kind of don't see that being a thing from u being typical? can you explain that more?

[Firebringer]

Flipping me is helpful probably but my wagon is definitely not hard to gain traction.

How do you see your flip as being helpful though?