Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[RedPanda]

does it even make sense that scum not in control of three power roles will kill blake. They would be shitting themselves and try and nightkill what they can instead of killing "A strong townie" and assuming town would mislynch poweroles or captain due to paranoia.

[RedPanda]

There are two options we can go for.

we can lynch voted and then captain protects himself with doc and then tells the jk to either go on me or LKJ. and because there won't be a nightkill we lynch the jailkept target and then jk the other next night and lynch and if still town then it has to be daitisiscum.

or people aren't willing to lynch voted.

We decide a 1vs1 between me and LKJ. I'm willing to trust my aubrey and daitisi read.

[Saudade]

I too, think aubrey and datisi are town

[Saudade]

I disagree about Ico, Voted didnt ping me all game I doubt a newbie is caapble of that

[RedPanda]

I'm just thinking if it was iconeum scum he would have disobeyed the order and killed me thinking that I was captain.

[RedPanda]

Wait let me think about this for a few mins.

[RedPanda]

ok scum iconeum might not have risked that when doc aubrey was the best target so it goes back to why blake was killed instead of aubrey and I'm pretty sure it was because voted was the win condition and they were scared blake would be the one that would stop it.

[RedPanda]

Vote LKJ

[RedPanda]

LKJ should be pushing Ico though so since if they are townreading daitisi and aubrey, it has to be me/ico or saud/ico. So I'm not sure...

[Datisi]

I decided to replace into this slot originally because I was scumreading Liz/Jack (so I could help them out); on learning we were town I decided not to post in thread, instead just discussing the game with Volxen in the background. However, this game isn't moving forward, and this gamestate only favors scum.

Persivul is scum

, and has a likely partner in Iconeum/Saudade. Datisi/Aubrey are likely town. Let's go through why.

---

Spoiler: Meta

Persivul's Meta

: I've played against town!Persivul and alongside scum!Persivul before. His scumplay usually follows this pattern: Look like he's sorting, get townread, and then turn passive/push an agenda. As town, he continually sorts and tests various slots throughout; feel free to verify this with past games.

This game matches with his scum meta: Till around post 600, he's been appearing "sorty" and was townread. He then stops sorting people, and instead tunnels Liz. The shift in his play is apparent. The rest of his play is largely pushing for mislynches in scummy ways, as I'll explain later.

Spoiler: Scum Agenda

Scum Agenda

: We're town, and we're townreading Aubrey. The lack of NK within our slots isn't confusing - it's great scum play. Achieving a paranoia mislynch on the grounds that a PR would've eaten a NK is a convenient idea for scum, and is arguably better play if planned well. Persivul is highly competent as scum, and should know this.

Yet, he started the day voting Aubrey in 932 - we questioned it, and he shifted his vote in 960 citing it as a "reaction test". The reactions it elicited were: Voted joining the wagon, Iconeum asking the doc to claim his target (?), and us challenging that idea; and this resulted in him voting for us. Aubrey had 0 posts during that.

What did Persivul get out of the reaction test?

This was scum gauging if he could get a lynch on Aubrey; not "reaction testing". His vote on us in that context did not make much sense either, so he justified it with a weak Zeebu|Liz dichotomy and "policy". After this, he makes repeated attacks that one of us/Aubrey is "mechanically" scum while doing nothing else.

Spoiler: Explaining The Night Kill

The Night Kill

: His being a commander fits with the Blake&Weiss NK. The command structure win path wasn't open, so ensuring the other officers die isn't a a priority. He backed down when Datisi claimed Captain quickly, and asked her to use the JK on him with the doc on herself - so the night kill would go through. Blake townread him, yes; but it was not a townread that would've held. Blake has been able to catch scum!Persivul in the past before, and her read progression on him would be unpredictable from his PoV: For reference check CoC1. He got himself townread, then became passive, and Blake was quick to scumread him as D1 was ending. Killing Blake would also make a push on us

much

easier. Also, more importantly, it's suggestive that Blake scumread his partner.

You could argue that the same reasoning applies to us, but it doesn't - I don't think scum!Nancy ever gets townread by Blake and Weiss to begin with. From our PoV, even if we were scum, this was a read that was unlikely to reverse (as the basis for it was Nancy being out of her range). Killing the slot while also being scumread by most others is a terrible decision. Not killing the doctor and driving paranoia upon ourselves, is a bad decision. We would've simply killed the doctor and argued that scum's looking for a command line winpath.

Spoiler: Partner Spec And Other Reads

Persivul's Partner

: Likely Iconeum. A short list of what gives Iconeum scum/partner equity:
1. His D1 play - summarized by Blake in 875.
2. The Blake NK, who had him in her top 2 scumreads.
3. His D2 entry pushing the "one of the claims has to be scum".
4. His pushing for claims - I don't see why needing to know who Aubrey protected was so important, or what our role was, for example. Scum motivation here would be to have a better idea of how to approach the game - if he's scum he knows there's both a doctor and a jailkeep. Knowing who the captain is is important - if it's a mislynchable slot, lynch and get Persivul to take control. If it's a hard lynch, pocket them. Note that the only claim he didn't want out was Commander... and guess who the Commander is?
5. Persivul interactions: Can't find posts where he's trying to sort Persivul. Interestingly, after Blake derails the wagon on my slot D1, Persivul votes Iconeum. Blake follows, and Persivul changes his vote soon after to Zeebu on the basis of "re-reading ISOs this is worse". Persivul never bothers about Iconeum afterwards.

Aubrey, note that scum don't have daytalk. The "chiding" part of it is easily faked and also something I'd do with a scumbuddy if I was pursuing a common scum agenda to distance myself.

I can also see a universe with Persi/Saudade as the scumteam from how they approach each other. Persi keeps Saudade at null, says he's a good scum player in 627 and that he has to do a deeper meta dive; which he never follows through with. Saudade isn't contributing to this game - between his taunts to Blake and tunnel on us, he isn't saying much. Saudade does this as both alignments, so I'm not really sure. I strongly think we should lynch Persivul's slot first, and go into Icon/Saudade.

Voted's snark remarks aren't helping the game, but they're doing nothing to push an agenda either. Blake kill makes less sense when she's townreading both Persivul and Voted if Voted is his partner given both were townread. The simpler answer is that he's town.

Aubrey's town FMPOV (apart from his dayplay) because if he were scum and *not* with an officer, he'd probably pursue that winpath when he knew he was targeting Persivul - which means he'd night kill us, didn't happen. Don't see Aubrey+Persivul or Aubrey+Datisi scum teams.

- Kenneth (Auro)

Be honest, did you post this because you felt the Liz was illogical in her defense?. Saudade is 100% town

from your pov because one of captain and power roles is def scum

and if you are scumreading me, you should town read saud. This lynch on saud is something you should never ever accept.

Can you just walk me through this real quick?

[RedPanda]

does it even make sense that scum not in control of three power roles will kill blake. They would be shitting themselves and try and nightkill what they can instead of killing "A strong townie" and assuming town would mislynch poweroles or captain due to paranoia.

[RedPanda]

saud and me dont have control of any powerroles so that scumteam is illogical with the blake nightkill

[RedPanda]

it would be illogical to think we were fishing for captain when a doc has already claimed and scum would assume captain would protect himself.

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

Vote LKJ

Hi RP why are you putting your vote on town?

Is this an omgus vote because you clearly haven’t been reading the thread if you seriously think we flip scum here.
In what world do we kill the slot who locktowns me? I think your moonlogical paranoia seems genuine to me. I seriously doubt you really want to 1v1 us because if you’re town here and I’m starting to question my sr on you, this would be antitown, since what are you going to do after our flip? After we flip, you’ll follow and I don’t want to hand the game to scum because we only get 3 mislynches and we lose. So, if you’re town here, you’d essentially be gamethrowing. Had we not mislynched zeebu, we could maybe afford this risk but I’m not willing to take this chance.

UNVOTE:

[RedPanda]

In what world do we kill the slot who locktowns me?

this is just wifom.

I'm sure saud is town. I am town. your best vote should be Ice if you are townreading daitisi and aubrey but you are going for me or saud which makes no sense to me.

[RedPanda]

Aubrey only negative is that she's not dead.
Daitisi only positive is the way he made power roles act.
I'm townreading ico.
So I'm poeing it to you even without considering that you keep using meta and wifom arguments to self clear.

[RedPanda]

really want to 1v1 us because if you’re town here and I’m starting to question my sr on you, this would be antitown, since what are you going to do after our flip? After we flip, you’ll follow and I don’t want to hand the game to scum because we only get 3 mislynches and we lose. So, if you’re town here, you’d essentially be gamethrowing

I'm willing to risk it on my reads because the alternative is that you guys would lynch saudade and then again it would be between me and you tomorrow. I want to keep the mislynch to give town some room.

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

LKJ should be pushing Ico though so since if they are townreading daitisi and aubrey, it has to be me/ico or saud/ico. So I'm not sure...

I mean, in my case I did say it's Pers+Ico or Pers+Saudade; so my pushes are consistent with what you think they should be fmpov?

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

In what world do we kill the slot who locktowns me?

this is just wifom.

I'm sure saud is town. I am town. your best vote should be Ice if you are townreading daitisi and aubrey but you are going for me or saud which makes no sense to me.

Prior to your replace in, Persi was my strongest sr and it probably would have remained so if he hadn’t been replaced out but your thought process on us, seems really genuine to me, so I’m now questioning that read and that should really tell you something because I was extremely confident in Persi scum but you don’t feel scummy to me so now I have to reread the entire damn game and figure out where we went wrong with our solve but that’s good because I don’t want to mislynch.

So we’re never scum here and I no longer think you are, so help me figure out who is.

[RedPanda]

It can't be pers saudade which is why I'm forcing a 1 vs 1 to avoid that scenario.

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

saud and me dont have control of any powerroles so that scumteam is illogical with the blake nightkill

Who do you see us as partners with?

-Kenneth (Auro)

[RedPanda]

In what world do we kill the slot who locktowns me?

this is just wifom.

I'm sure saud is town. I am town. your best vote should be Ice if you are townreading daitisi and aubrey but you are going for me or saud which makes no sense to me.

Prior to your replace in, Persi was my strongest sr and it probably would have remained so if he hadn’t been replaced out but your thought process on us, seems really genuine to me, so I’m now questioning that read and that should really tell you something because I was extremely confident in Persi scum but you don’t feel scummy to me so now I have to reread the entire damn game and figure out where we went wrong with our solve but that’s good because I don’t want to mislynch.

So we’re never scum here and I no longer think you are, so help me figure out who is.

hmmm

[Liz Jack and Kenneth]

It can't be pers saudade which is why I'm forcing a 1 vs 1 to avoid that scenario.

Again, you're basing this just off that neither of you are a PR. Yet, you're a claimed officer. This is also WIFOM.

-Kenneth

[RedPanda]

saud and me dont have control of any powerroles so that scumteam is illogical with the blake nightkill

Who do you see us as partners with?

-Kenneth (Auro)

I was thinking voted but your last post is frustrating me about you

[RedPanda]

It can't be pers saudade which is why I'm forcing a 1 vs 1 to avoid that scenario.

Again, you're basing this just off that neither of you are a PR. Yet, you're a claimed officer. This is also WIFOM.

-Kenneth

I am vanilla until captain is dead.