Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #14

Oversoul (0) -

OkaPoka (3) (L-2) - skitter30 (191), Oversoul (404), TemporalLich (425)

Dunnstral (0) -
Kop (1) - callforjudgement (644)
skitter30 (2) - Firebringer (279), Dunnstral (587)
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (2) - Sleepless Assassin (158), OkaPoka (164)
Not Voting (1) - Kop

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 1 will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. OkaPoka is V/LA until July 10, 2019.
4. Firebringer is V/LA indefinitely.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417) --> Kop (644)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397) --> skitter30 (587)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[OkaPoka]

hi dunn give reads <3

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Skitter30

I don't like their push

Uh huh

Do tell

I voted you on a whim, without thinking about it too hard

I actually hate this. It's cheeky, but not the sort of cheeky that I really attribute to town. But that might be because Dunn has been missing the last couple of days. Going through and rereading the TemporalLich and Oka feud

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter30

I don't like their push

Uh huh

Do tell

I voted you on a whim, without thinking about it too hard

What dont u like about my push?

[OkaPoka]

okay but clearly temporal lich is not the type of person to vote people on a whim

by his own admission he had me top scum

and every time he was serious about a vote

which makes me suspect that his readslist with top scum firebringer was fabricated, no?

the way i see it, it really comes down to this for me.

temporal lich is basically displaying signs of backward rationalization, where he chooses the vote and then puts the read. he's been trying to mask his opportunism with his srs and vote changes, but his reads dont actually progress naturally because well, he isn't town. his reads come after his votes. thats why i am making a big deal out of his inconsistencies in between his firebringer and me scumread and how it doesnt make sense because he's justifying things after he does it.

for you however, i don't see clear signs of backward rationalization. maybe you have and ill have to reread you in depth. but its kinda clear from the get go that lich is just making stuff up .

@skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

Why Is oka the leading wagon anyway

[OkaPoka]

SA you all caught up?

[TemporalLich]

Why Is oka the leading wagon anyway

I assume multiple people SR him

My bottom read is currently on Oka, I am willing to accept Firebringer or Dunn as compromise lynches.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Do you see how that line of reasoning though potentially true is very unhelpful

This has been exactly my issue with skitter in this game. It feels very "here's what I think but not why but you should accept it as fact anyway".

he has yet to give explanations on his townread of you and therefore doesn't have explanations for his skitter vote in 279.

Oh and 314 is an outright refusal to give said explanations for scumreading (and thus voting) skitter. 320 is an indication we'll never get an explanation of firebringer's skitter SR in any more depth than 204's oka townread which isn't much tbh.
time will end

Ok but why is any of this scum and not just town not playing the way you'd like them to?

OkaPoka, meanwhile, seems to be intentionally playing in an anti-town way despite me explaining several times why the playstyle is wrong and what can be done better; insisting on vote-parking on TemporalLich for no reason is just bizarre. (OK, so there was a reason, once; but a lot of other people disagree with it, so if you can't find additional reasons, your vote isn't doing anything where it is.)

My stance on temp is almost identical to oka's. Why is it a reason to scum read him but you have me as a town read?

Is sweet sassy a yume alt?

No. She's not an alt.

In general I find it suspicious when a player's activity changes, one way or another. If they go from posting a lot to posting a little, it seems like it could be scum who think they have secured the trust of the town. If they lurk and then DANGER appears causing them to become active, it could be scum doing some self-preservation.

I work 16 hour days so that I can have chunks of time off at a time. This doesn't change with my alignment in mafia games.

m going to need some reads from sleepless assassin when he comes back

I have you and firebringer as town. Sweetnsassy maybe town. Skitter and callforjudgement as opposite alignments, leaning towards skitter being the scum there. Temp scum. Dunn and the worst are pretty much PoE reads so if I'm wrong on a scum read put them there instead.

I'm through page 17

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: Skitter30

I don't like their push

Uh huh

Do tell

I voted you on a whim, without thinking about it too hard

I actually hate this. It's cheeky, but not the sort of cheeky that I really attribute to town. But that might be because Dunn has been missing the last couple of days. Going through and rereading the TemporalLich and Oka feud

so what are ur thoughts

[Kop]

i think u caught him in a contradiction but i'm not sure that contradicting himself is inherently scummy

what's ur read on me?

It depends on which way that particular contradiction is read.

Yes when your town, you can play carefree and not having to pay much attention to what you put out in the thread because you won't be widely scum read, because as scum you would pay more attention to what your putting in the thread. But there's only so much that can stop at, people may starting to implement it into there scum game and try get away with it, so along with that, when does the contradictions stop that stops being a tell?

I mean you can easily sit there and say in the thread, well I won't or can't scum read said person because yes said person is making contradictions but as scum said person would be paying attention to what they are saying. But where does the line stop?

You don't think it's inherently scummy, that's your perception of it, but have you looked at it on both sides, is he town and the contradictions are wrong, or is it scum being caught in a contradiction?

[OkaPoka]

Kop ur opinion?

[callforjudgement]

OkaPoka, meanwhile, seems to be intentionally playing in an anti-town way despite me explaining several times why the playstyle is wrong and what can be done better; insisting on vote-parking on TemporalLich for no reason is just bizarre. (OK, so there was a reason, once; but a lot of other people disagree with it, so if you can't find additional reasons, your vote isn't doing anything where it is.)

My stance on temp is almost identical to oka's. Why is it a reason to scum read him but you have me as a town read?

Timing. Reading someone who's scummy for something that happens at the time, voting them, then going V/LA and not moving your vote is not scummy. If you do the same thing, but are not V/LA, and you refuse to do anything with the vote and also refuse to push the read (or in general, refuse to really look at anyone but your current wagon which you also aren't trying to convince anyone else of), that's much scummier behaviour. (It's the same reason that active lurking – i.e. posting frequently, but nothing of substance – is much scummier than passive lurking, where you don't post at all, as the latter is probably influenced by real-life issues.)

OkaPoka did eventually start pushing the Lich read again, and came off more townish as a result, as it meant he was no longer playing intentionally anti-town for no good reason.

[callforjudgement]

You don't think it's inherently scummy, that's your perception of it, but have you looked at it on both sides, is he town and the contradictions are wrong, or is it scum being caught in a contradiction?

What do you think TemporalLich was lying about?

(In my experience, scum tend to get caught in a contradiction only when at least one of the contradicting statements was an intentional lie and they couldn't keep their story straight.)

[skitter30]

@oka i dont know what else you want me to say, i dont think that he's really rationalizing his votes after the fact, i think at best he didnt think through his vote change but i dont think.that makes him scum

[skitter30]

This has been exactly my issue with skitter in this game. It feels very "here's what I think but not why but you should accept it as fact anyway".

I mean if you want to know why just ask. I'm not expecting people to just accept what i say as fact either, at least it doesnt feel that way to me

[skitter30]

Skitter and callforjudgement as opposite alignments, leaning towards skitter being the scum there.

Why opposite alignments?

[OkaPoka]

But skitter, he admits I'm his top sr and he votes with whoever he has as top scum read so it's not his votes that are whim with it's his reads

[skitter30]

When did he vote with you?

[OkaPoka]

Votes on*

[skitter30]

Yeah i was a bit confused by that

I dont really see the problem of voting his top scumread

[OkaPoka]

But it means his reads are on whim

[OkaPoka]

The contradiction is within his reads and it's revealed by his votes.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Dunnstral

I think Oka is town after reading his interactions with Temp. The thought processes and frustration feel genuine enough that I am no longer comfortable to vote Oka off the island. Fellow

Americans

lend me your strength for this

vanity

wagon!

[Sleepless Assassin]

I read through page 20 but don't have anything to say that will surprise anyone. I didn't like temps L-1 on oka and temp seems inconsistent and contradictory on Dunn's thing on sweetnsassy