Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[nomnomnom]

This could also be 7-1-1-1 with two alternate night SKs? Don't want to feed paranoia but if there's an odd SK with even commuter and an even SK with odd commuter that would kinda explain why this game has seemed fucked and there's so many scummy people that nonetheless seem like they can't be groupscum?

The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties. In large games (at least 14 players), a second anti-town group can be given a separate Mafia family name, or can be a Werewolf group, and there should be no more than two mafia/werewolf factions, and

no more than one Serial Killer

.

[Kirari Momobami]

Ohhh good catch

[Kirari Momobami]

So this is either 8-2, 7-2-1, or 8-1-1

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Ofh
Could have sworn I was voting there

[Kirari Momobami]

VOTE COUNT 1.5
Nomnomnom (5) Kublai Khan, ofrhz, Vorkuta, Jesus Louisus, LuckyOtter,

Creature

(1)

pisskop

,

Eyes without a face

(1)

Montosh

,

pisskop

(1)

rosterfoster

,
Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

rosterfoster

(1)

Alchemist21

,
Vorkuta (1)

Creature

,
Popsofctown (1)

Kirari Momobami

,

Montosh

(1) Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus (1)

Red Flavor

Not Voting (4)

Eyes without a face

, DeasVail, Kop, Popsofctown,


VOTE COUNT 1.6

Creature

(7)

pisskop

,

Red Flavor

, Vorkuta, Kop, Nero Cain,

rosterfoster

, Jesus Louisus,
Nomnomnom (3) Kublai Khan, ofrhz, LuckyOtter,

Eyes without a face

(1)

Montosh

,
Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

rosterfoster

(1)

Alchemist21

,
Vorkuta (1)

Creature

Popsofctown (1)

Kirari Momobami

,

Not Voting (3)

Eyes without a face

, DeasVail, Popsofctown,

VOTE COUNT 1.9

Niko

(5)

Kirari Momobami

,

Eyes without a face

, ofrhz, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan,
Vorkuta (4)

Montosh

,

pisskop

,

Niko

,

Red Flavor

Creature

(3) Vorkuta, Jesus Louisus,

Alchemist21

,
Nomnomnom (2) LuckyOtter,

rosterfoster

,
Jesus Louisus (1) Popsofctown,
Not Voting (1) DeasVail,
Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

Red Flavor

(1)

Creature

VOTE COUNT 1.FINAL

Niko

(10)

Kirari Momobami

,

Eyes without a face

, ofrhz, Nero Cain, Kublai Khan, Popsofctown, Jesus Louisus,

Montosh

,

Alchemist21

,

rosterfoster

,

Eyes without a face

Eyes without a face

(1)

Niko

,

rosterfoster

(1)

pisskop

,

Creature

(1) Vorkuta,
Nomnomnom (1) LuckyOtter,
Jesus Louisus (1)

Red Flavor

Nero Cain (1) Nomnomnom,

Red Flavor

Creature

LuckyOtter (1) DeasVail,


VOTE COUNT 2.2
Jesus Louisus (4)

Red Flavor

Eyes without a face

, ofrhz, Kublai Khan,

Eyes without a face

(4)

rosterfoster

, Jesus Louisus, nomnomnom, popsofctown,
Vorkuta (2)

Kirari Momobami

, DeasVail,

rosterfoster

(1)

Alchemist21

,

Red Flavor

(1) LuckyOtter,

Montosh

(1) Nero Cain,

Not Voting (2) Vorkuta,

Montosh

,


VOTE COUNT 2.FINAL

Red Flavor

(8) LuckyOtter, Jesus Louisus, popsofctown,

rosterfoster

, nomnomnom,

Alchemist21

, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain,
Jesus Louisus (2)

Red Flavor

ofrhz,
Vorkuta (1)

Kirari Momobami

,

rosterfoster

(1)

Eyes without a face

,
Popsofctown (1) DeasVail,

Not Voting (2) Vorkuta,

Montosh

,

VOTE COUNT 3.2
ofrhz (4) nomnomnom, Jesus Louisus,

Montosh

, LuckyOtter,

Montosh

(2) Nero Cain,

rosterfoster

,
LuckyOtter (2)

Kirari Momobami

, popsofctown,
DeasVailDeasVail (2)

Alchemist21

, Vorkuta,

rosterfoster

(1) Kublai Khan,
Nomnomnomnomnomnom (1) ofrhz,

Not Voting (1) DeasVail,

VOTE COUNT 3.2
ofrhz (5) nomnomnom, Jesus Louisus,

Montosh

, LuckyOtter,

Alchemist21

,

Montosh

(3) Nero Cain,

rosterfoster

, popsofctown,
LuckyOtter (2)

Kirari Momobami

, DeasVail,
DeasVailDeasVail (1) Vorkuta,

rosterfoster

(1) Kublai Khan,
Nomnomnomnomnomnom (1) ofrhz,


VOTE COUNT 3.FINAL

Montosh

(7)

rosterfoster

, popsofctown,

Alchemist21

, Nero Cain, ofrhz, Jesus Louisus, Kublai Khan
ofrhz (3) nomnomnom,

Montosh

, LuckyOtter,
Nomnomnomnomnomnom (1)

Kirari Momobami

,
LuckyOtter (1) DeasVail,
DeasVailDeasVail (1) Vorkuta,

[Kirari Momobami]

Man still bothers me we have nothing from the 1.5 wagon lol

day 1 was so heavily town fronted and town backed I think the other vanities look bad (LO/HWS/Vork/DV), like maybe there's an SK or one scum on that wagon but I think it was almost exclusively town

And I'm still not sure who the bus is on RedFlavor if it's not Otter :/ Like people are saying Otter is town because of the RF push but there's no way that wagon is all town, that ship was sinking fast and if busses weren't already on then I guess they might have been on the backend?

[Kirari Momobami]

In 1.9 you'd almost think there'd be a scum inside Vork and Jesus based on how the scum have been playing?

[nomnomnom]

Or you could sheep me.

[Kirari Momobami]

I'd rather settle which of LO and DV is scum personally, and starting to wonder how reliably I can say Vork's "time for a scum Creature" comment clears him from groupscum potential which was the main reason I wasn't groupscumming him before

what do you think of vork and dv?

[nomnomnom]

Vork has been silent but it's been the case left and right on the site.

I think DV is town.

[LuckyOtter]

VOTE: ofrhz

Still good with this or kirari, though mechanically ofr still makes more sense

[Kirari Momobami]

though mechanically ofr still makes more sense

?

[LuckyOtter]

Looking at voting patterns. Mechanically is maybe not the right word

[Kublai Khan]

If were going to do setup spec, then let's do it logically as far as killing and mafia-cop roles go. 4 person mafia team assumed for a large and Mafia Cop only has the usefulness of detecting either a SK or a Mafia Traitor.

3 Mafia, 1 Traitor, 1 Half-Vig (doesn't explain extra kill N1 & N3)
or
4 Mafia, 1 SK, 1 Half-Vig (doesn't explain lack of N2 kill)
or
3 Mafia, 1 Traitor, 1 SK, 1 Half-Vig (doesn't explain lack of N2 kill)

If we add in the possibility of a mirroring Odd-night Vig:

3 Mafia, 1 Traitor, 2 Alternating Half-Vigs (Even Night dead, Odd night alive) (nothing not explained)
or
4 Mafia, 1 SK, 2 Alt. Half-Vigs (Feels like not enough kills to explain.)
or
3 Mafia, 1 Traitor, 1 SK, 2 Alt. Half-Vigs (Feels like not enough kills to explain.)

It seems only the middle one has no "doesn't explain" caveat. Assuming a SK exists is only the second most plausible. Of course this is likely moot and a waste of time because so far our mod enjoys adding in a variety of Conditional Night elements.

Also strongly notable is that there's been 2 Mafia Commuters flips and I'm hoping that the other Mafia aren't also N1-4 commuters as well because that sounds really over-powered unless there's a limitation to stop the majority of the team of commuting for 4 straight nights. If the setup is 2 alternating half-vigs with 3-4 mafia commuters, then I can see an interesting "vigs use the lack of kill as a cop guilty" setup idea.

(Though thinking about it now, Kirari Momobami's D1 targeting invite as it appears to be a little scum-cheekiness.)

Also, since I'm setup speculating, can I return to the weirdness of JesusLouisus and Alchemist13 casually insisting that a Town Backup is a strong possibility without anything to base that on? (No N2 kill)

[Kirari Momobami]

I don't really think roster and alchemist die last night if it's vig and not SK tho

[Kirari Momobami]

If SK is full, they probably hit redflavor n1. The groupscum know they've hit at least one BP by now so they probably have a decent idea who the SK

Also in normal games traitor can't be recruited, but there's a decent chance in a setup like this they'd be BP I guess? Maybe a BP traitor and a BP SK so that scum have to figure out which is which, hence the cop?

So this could actually be 7-1[groupscum]-1[nonrecruitable BP traitor]-1[SK]

I don't honestly know if town even has an even vig, I kinda don't think so? the backup vig was an interesting thought, but I feel like bulletproof vig + backup vig is just... not a likely design setup? pretty sure town vig was not actually supposed to die early

[Kirari Momobami]

BP traitor would explain no kill n2? SK hits bp traitor, groupscum hits bp SK?

Or there's some other explanation. I feel like I'm diving in to kinda wifomy setup spec just trying to get a grip on this game.

KK does your analysis above make you think we should massclaim today or tomorrow?

[Kirari Momobami]

Yeah no BP traitor is probably too much with 2 scum commuters already, that's probably a bad explanation

[Nero Cain]

So this is either 8-2, 7-2-1, or 8-1-1

Why would anyone think this game has more than 4 scum?

it's either 8-2 or 8-1-1.

[Kirari Momobami]

13-{3+traitor}-1 isn't in the range of a normal? I honestly haven't played with SK that often and am not sure how hard it impacts the overall scum count

[Nero Cain]

*shrugz*

I'm too lazy to go look at games with a similar player # but based on experience I think that 4 scum is about the max for a 18 player. And since we either had two v bad vigs or a vig/sk that points to 3-4 team scum and if thats an SK then it cn only be 3 scum.

but that's just me so w/e

[DeasVail]

I think the remaining scum are in Otter/Vorkuta/Jesus

[Nero Cain]

Niko

(10)Kirari Momobami,

Eyes without a face

,ofrhz,

Nero Cain

,Kublai Khan,Lil Uzi Vert,Jesus Louisus,

Montosh,Alchemist21,rosterfoster

,

Eyes without a face

(1)

Niko

,

rosterfoster

(1)

pisskop,

Creature(1)Vorkuta,

HeWhoSwims(1)LuckyOtter,

Jesus Louisus(1)

RedFlavor

,

Nero Cain

(1)HeWhoSwims,

RedFlavor

(1)

Creature

LuckyOtter(1)DeasVail,

RedFlavor

(8)LuckyOtter,Jesus Louisus,popsofctown,

rosterfoster

,nomnomnom,

Alchemist21

,Kublai Khan,

Nero Cain

,

Jesus Louisus(2)

RedFlavor

,ofrhz,

Not Voting(2)Vorkuta,

Montosh

,

Vorkuta(1)Kirari Momobami,

rosterfoster

(1)

Eyes without a face

,

popsofctown(1)DeasVail,

Montosh

(7)

rosterfoster

,popsofctown,

Alchemist21,Nero Cain

,ofrhz,Jesus Louisus,Kublai Khan

ofrhz(3)nomnomnom,

Montosh

,LuckyOtter,

nomnomnom(1)Kirari Momobami,

LuckyOtter(1)DeasVail,

DeasVail(1)Vorkuta,

0 flipped scum from either wagon. But d1 has Creature sitting on Red to distance. You guys think Red sits on Jesus in the first two eod vc's? Would also make sense as scum that's on every wagon.

I'll sit there for now.

VOTE: Jesus

[Nero Cain]

though TBF,

I think you are both town, now lets lynch a useless Creature slot.

VOTE: Creature

L-1

So are we lynching Creature or peepeekop now?

voting his buddy (i think it was a fake L-1 but legit vote) and then asking if we are still voting his buddy makes me less confident. I mean sure, he could still vote his buddy (Creature and get voted by his buddy (red) to throw us off. His voting history outside of that is mostly trash though. IDK, I'd like for some others to tell me who is scum any why.

[Nero Cain]

unless Kirari has crumbed it somewhere, not stating her n1 MD seems kinda like scum that knows they won't die.