Micro 879: The Black Site [game over]

[Oversoul]

Since we're townreading Spam.
Why not TDC? What are the "reasons"?

Why Spam/LUV?

-Auro

Why are you town reading Spam?

Spam = mostly utility
LUV = Schiavetto left a poor impression

I will not explain the TDC town read at this time other than the fact that his play should speak for itself.

[TDC]

Why are you townreading spam, Auro? Or is that also something only Shoshin can explain?

I'm growing tired of having to deal with the different heads of hydras seperately. You are posting on one account because you are supposed to play like a normal slot. If you can't manage to communicate often enough to keep current on a geriatric game then what's the point of hydraing??

Also good thing the deadline is paused again, because I was going to be in an airplane when the last version would have run out..

I could go with Voyc lynch, but still like Spam better.

But again, I'm very open to people bringing forward arguments why he would be town that extend beyond "his play is sort of similar to that one town game I read of him"..

[Auro and Shoshin]

Why'd you assume that? Of course we discussed the reasons for the Spam townread. From notes:
Spam's 86 was a fluid, natural read change which very likely comes from town - we expect scum in that position to gauge for other reactions before reversing a read that way. The way he expressed it - "Crap, Shell's town" is also something we don't expect scum would say.

[Auro and Shoshin]

In addition, I looked at a scumgame of his; he seemed to justify his reads and pushes a lot more there. His behavior this game doesn't resemble that. Given a few players seem to recognize his townplay from the previous game as well, we think it points to him being town.
If he's being replaced from site flaking, that doesn't change our read of the slot.

-Auro (the previous post as well)

[TDC]

Can you link the game, so we can all have a look?

[Auro and Shoshin]

Go to his profile, it was one of his early Newbie games IIRC. I'm on mobile now, sorry

-Auro

[Oversoul]

Like if push came to shove I could do Voyc but I legit feel guilty doing it that gut read is so strong to me

[Auro and Shoshin]

What does "mostly utility" mean?
Voyc is in your top three scumreads, is it that your gut's saying he's town although you have no concrete reasons to believe it?

-Auro

[Voyc]

We should hydra!

For sure!, just hmu

@Auro, do you think I'm the townread you've got that's most likely to be wrong? + if so, how come?

[Oversoul]

I think that Spam is not going to actively contribute to a good scumhunting atosphere so getting rid of him is a net plus for the game state.

Yes. I think my gut says town because I see a lot of my play in her play and I am constantly being misread as scum when town.

[Auro and Shoshin]

Voyc, my townread on you was the shakiest. You seemed to be finding the same problems with other's (say NMSA's) posts which I did as I read through the thread, leading me to believe you were town. However, given the sparsity in that happening, this isn't a strong reason.

Your play seems passive and Shoshin found it awkward, which is is consistent with generic scum play. Can you tell us some differences from your scum meta? I haven't really checked your scumgames yet - I'm kinda busy IRL for a while.

-Auro

[Auro and Shoshin]

Oversoul, what do you make of our reasons to townread Spam? It was enough to cause me to reverse my read on him - if it doesn't convince you, can you tell me why?

-Auro

[Oversoul]

Well, 86 doesn't have the read change that you're talking about. It is just a reads list. The read change comes later in 117 and looks like something that can be faked like he is holding the door open for the opportunity to vote back on Shell.

[Skygazer]

lmao replaces NotMySpamAccount. Deadline updated in next votecount.

[Skygazer]

VC 1.14

lmao (3): TDC, shEll, Oversoul
Kop (2): lmao, Voyc
Voyc (1): teacher
teacher (1): Lil Uzi Vert
Oversoul (1): Kop
TDC (1): Auro and Shoshin

Not voting (0):

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2019-07-15 02:30:00).

Mod notes: Deadline resumes with 48 hours left.

[lmao]

hi

this is my first time playing on the geriatric ruleset

no games i liked were in signups so i just replaced in the first available game i can find so i haven't caught up

[lmao]

Scratch that
VOTE: Saudade
Waste of an rvs post, no vote no nothing, in a game with limited posts
Also gotta love everyone jumping on the spam bandwagon

This vote is not valid as Saudade is not a player in this game!

lol

@Duppin. Is your vote on Shell serious?

Yes. Well it wasn't a joke vote, obviously it's not a strong read but it's a place to start.

I will try to elaborate as best as I can.

I didn't like the post because it didn't feel very genuine. I'm not sure what the best way to explain it, but it felt a bit like he was trying too hard to project town.
Even if Saudade had been in the game, then I don't think there would have been anything really alignment indicative about someone not putting out a vote in their first post. I get the argument that we have limited posts, but frankly I personally don't see that becoming an issue for me but yeah anyway, so I felt like shell went way too hard on something that really meant nothing.

shows initiative in elaborating a read

I mean that we are both mafia, of course.

Also, duppin I sorta understand where you're coming from. I was intentionally trying to push hard on someone during rvs so that we wouldn't waste all our time and posts in it, and the best I could use was someone not posting content (would have been better if they were uh......... in the game) rather than people posting troll content. And what i got from it was a slight scumread on spam and... sadly not much more
(Sorry i tried not to drag that explanation on too much)

the parenthesis afterthought feels townie

Also, while I have y'all, this is my fist non-newbie MS game, so I'd love it if we could do a quick Q&A? Thanks. Five questions, answer any three.

1. What's your general experience with mafia? Are there other sites you play on?

2. In your opinion, who's the most influential musician of the past 50 years? Why?

3. How would you describe your playstyle as town? As scum?

4. What, in your opinion, are the best aspects of the geriatric ruleset?

5. What is your favorite pokemon, and why is it better than other pokemon?

oh boy

1. i have some experience on this website
2. idk
3. i am sucks at town and sucks at mafia
4. i've never played on this ruleset before but i'd suppose that it'd be easier to deduce who's truly efforting by the quality, not quantity, of one's posts
5. water types are superior

I planned on making a really big post today about my thoughts but I'm tired so I'll go look deeper and explain more tomorrow
Here's a few things
- rick & morty judging their reads on me based on my joke about being spam's partner is horrible reasoning to base a read off of but as scum it would make more sense for 2 heads to go for similar lynches. The contrast in their views is more likely 2 town players in the same slot.
- schiavetto's questions and gamesolving approach reasonably would be more town motivated and appear to push the town forward or attempt to.
- spam as I've expressed is the closest to an SR i have

because he's my mafia partner

because his posts have seemed fluffy and hard to find a clear town motive in them. It could just be his play style which is why I'm not super certain on it and will look into his meta
- uhhhh vote shell 2020

wouldn't it be 2 players in the same town slot?

and i've seen enough of those questionnaires to feel like theyre lamist if done poorly

this post isn't amazing

combined with 31 i'll get back to this on whether it's naive town or scummy

So, I'm pretty disappointed in the way my reads are going
I was hoping to finish my read list by now and have a decent idea of what i thought on everyone, and I don't. Judging by the fact this is a page 3 readlist I shouldn't have expected much but I was really let down by what I had. I can't get a decent read on like half the cast and I only have one townread which I'm even skeptical of.
Here's all I have so far:

Spoiler: duppin

19 and 29 don't ping town or scum for me because the reason he gives in 29 makes sense (i disagree with it but it's understandable). My problem is that he kinda just ignored schiavetto's reaons for the questions and my reasons for my post about saudade and all he's really seemed to contribute so far is 1 vote.

slight scum

Spoiler: Spam

he's my mafia partner

21 just throws around "this good this bad" and blindly sheeps his gut town read. 46 is the only post of his that actually explains stuff and even then it's just "tone" for his reads on me and duppin (yes you can have a tone read and still try to explain it duppin did that pretty well) and his reasoning against tdc is pretty bad (like if he pushed me for the joke maybe but he just asked me about it). It's also worth pointing out that his tr on duppin and sheeping him without much reason could be a scum partner interaction that he isn't trying too hard to cover up (esp. because i also find duppin suspicious).

scum lean

I really hope he doesn't get replaced tho because i actually want to hear more from him

Spoiler: schiavetto

33 didn't strike me as specifically town, since opening questions don't usually indicate much for alignment. 48 when I first saw it made me think "yo this is pro town pro town equal good" but looking back on it I don't really know what was so towny about it. His questions aren't bad but I can't find anything that goes "this would only make sense as one alignment". What's frustrating is I feel like I

should

townread him but there's nothing significant I can find.

Null

I'll probably come back to this one later

Spoiler: Rick & Morty

So I think Morty on his own is a bit suspicious. His votes don't make sense (45, which is a joke and he almost seems to acknowledge that it's a joke in 53, and 53 his vote on voyc i disagree with because i don't think being passive is scummy). However, these things can be easier explained by "flawed town" a little more than Spam or duppin imo.
The towny part comes in the way Rick's views oppose his. If they were pulling a strategy to purposely create head dissonance for towncred, I'd think Morty would probably make sense, for towncred. So if anything it's 2 opposing town views.

slight town

I wanna hear more from Morty because if he explained himself better i might townread them more.

Spoiler: singletonking

57 is the only post of his worth commenting about until you read it and it shows that 17 was actually probably serious. It's one thing to accuse other people's rvs votes in rvs, it's another thing to accuse a joke post based on another joke post from the phase of being scummy long after it's over. Of course it had bad reasoning it was like one of the first rvs posts.

slight scum

Slight because it's only one post and he might

somehow

have an explanation for it. Benefit of the doubt.

Rest of the cast I don't know.
Reason I talked about shiavetto in particular and not my other nulls is because at my first glance at him he was a townread that shifted to a nullread when i looked closer at it, which kinda meeded explaining.

I will continue to look for signs in all these players but man I'm disappointed.

nvm this was good

don't get cooked stay off the hook

i like you


p4 tentative list:

train
voyc
shell

duppin
schia
tdc

singleton
r&m

[Auro and Shoshin]

Well, 86 doesn't have the read change that you're talking about. It is just a reads list. The read change comes later in 117 and looks like something that can be faked like he is holding the door open for the opportunity to vote back on Shell.

Why so? "Crap, he's town" and then attacking him later would be very awkward.

-Auro

[Voyc]

Your play seems passive and Shoshin found it awkward, which is is consistent with generic scum play. Can you tell us some differences from your scum meta? I haven't really checked your scumgames yet - I'm kinda busy IRL for a while.

Honestly haven't played enough scumgames to give you a clear answer to that
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=75575 is the only one I've got here, I just played by trying to appear townie I think, more scared of slipping up somehow
Nothing to say about Shoshin's thoughts on my play, I'm a pretty self-conscious person and that seeps into my posts

Also for what it's worth I'm liking A+S rn, though I do want to ask,

In post 195, Auro and Shoshin wrote:
-redacted-

?

Also! ^

[Skygazer]

Oversoul has made 10 posts in the past 24 hours and Auro and Shoshin has made 11 by my rough count. However, up until I got the last replacement, the deadline was listed as under 24 hours for a few hours in the votecount, so I'm going to say that Auro and Shoshin's 11th post hasn't counted against their reserve.

[lmao]

p6

oversoul/train slot remains obvtown
can't get a grasp on schia but probably more town than scum
not liking tdc for the near-naked voteswitch
r&m is also bad for voting obvtown
voyc is ok still

p7-p8
still not a fan of tdc
that entrance was ??? and i'd be high sr'ing them if it weren't two experienced heads
dunno what to think about 195 — do scum hydras fabricate convos like that?

p9
hi teach
teacher is town but idk about those reads
tdc's usage of AoI wrt nsma is yikes
still townreading voyc so idk about the votes

p10
relaxing my sr on rick after kop's posts
voyc is adhering to my gut tr of her
don't like teacher voting nsma after he had him as null-town just because he wanted a lynch before deadline
you don't kill lynchbait if you want a lynch, you kill the scummiest player fypov and it wasn't nsma
and oversoul's bad for it too tbh
in general this wagon should've never been a thing, which makes me think at least one scum's on it

p11
tdc's redeeming himself a bit
kop is being reactive so i'm still putting him on the scum end, not seeing any sorting going on there
oversoul, you still haven't answered tdc's question on why you're voting nmsa even though you townread him earlier

[lmao]

sorry if that was hard to follow. i wanted to try to change up my posting style but the geriatric ruleset forces me to coalesce it which makes it a bit illegible

ordered readslist

town:
Voyc
Oversoul TrainDriver
shEll
teacher duppin

null:
Lil Uzi Vert Schiavetto
Auro and Shoshin singletonking

scum:
TDC
Kop Rick and Morty (anonymous hydra)

[TDC]

Go to his profile, it was one of his early Newbie games IIRC. I'm on mobile now, sorry

-Auro

This one?
That seems to have been his first game on site, so not sure of representative it would be, but I can see where you are coming from on this. He's both more engaged and sort of actively manufacturing reasons to vote people.

I think that Spam is not going to actively contribute to a good scumhunting atosphere so getting rid of him is a net plus for the game state.

Considering Skygazer was already searching for a replacement (i.e. spam was not actually part of the "atmosphere" anymore) I think this is a poor reason to keep voting him.

sorry if that was hard to follow. i wanted to try to change up my posting style but the geriatric ruleset forces me to coalesce it which makes it a bit illegible

ordered readslist

town:
Voyc
Oversoul TrainDriver
shEll
teacher duppin

null:
Lil Uzi Vert Schiavetto
Auro and Shoshin singletonking

scum:
TDC
Kop Rick and Morty (anonymous hydra)

Can you go into the Oversoul townread?

[Oversoul]

Lmao, please explain the Voyc read? Please explain your TDC scum read further. Also, what is AoI?

TDC, you confuse me. You seem to think I am scum and you are currently voting Spam’s slot, presumably because you think he is scum, so why are you attempting to move my vote off his slot?

[TDC]

I'm not sure what's confusing there, I can dislike your reason to vote him even if I generally think voting him is a good idea. In fact, people joining the wagon who are not actually suspicious of the lynchee is generally a bit disconcerting. On the other hand, I'm sort of wondering why the lynch hasn't happened yet, if he is town. (I can see why town-lmao would think there must be scum on his wagon).

That said, reading that scum game of spam softened my view a bit. I'm also curious about the placement of us fellow wagoners in lmao's scumlist (hence my question regarding his town read of you. In terms of his scum read of me, I would prefer to hear from Shoshin first).