Micro 880: A Normal Game - Game Over!

[Ircher]

Day 1 VC #20

Oversoul (1) - OkaPoka (998)
OkaPoka (2) - skitter30 (191), TemporalLich (425)
Dunnstral (1) - Oversoul (673)
Kop (2) - callforjudgement (644), Firebringer (992)
skitter30 (2) - Dunnstral (587), Kop (860)
Firebringer (0) -
TemporalLich (1) - Sleepless Assassin (158)
Not Voting (0) -

Lynch Threshold

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

This phase will end on July 13, 2019 9:30:00 PM EDT (GMT-4) or in (expired on 2019-07-13 21:30:00).

Moderator Notes

1. If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2. If you see any errors in the votecount, please let me know.
3. Firebringer is V/LA indefinitely.
4. The moderator is V/LA from Wednesday, July 17 to Sunday, July 21. Please forward any questions to Skygazer during that time.
5. skitter30 is V/LA until Sunday, July 14.
6. No deadline extensions will be granted, so please do not ask.

Voting History Key: * = Hammer, + = L-1 vote.

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Day 1

the worst (5): skitter30 (90) --> (Null) (168) --> OkaPoka (169) --> (Null) (253) --> SweetNSassy (340)
Oversoul: OkaPoka (404) --> Dunnstral (673)
callforjudgement: Firebringer (94) --> OkaPoka (157) --> the worst (222) --> OkaPoka (417) --> Kop (644)
OkaPoka: SweetNSassy (85) --> Dunnstral (105) --> TemporalLich (164) --> Kop (908) --> TemporalLich (963) --> Kop (993) --> Oversoul (998)
Dunnstral: SweetNSassy (300) --> the worst (397) --> skitter30 (587)
SweetNSassy (0):
Kop: skitter30 (860)
Sleepless Assassin: TemporalLich (93) --> Dunnstral (108) --> TemporalLich (158)
skitter30: OkaPoka (191+)
Firebringer: Dunnstral (91) --> skitter30 (111) --> Dunnstral (138+) --> skitter30 (279) --> TemporalLich (687) --> skitter30 (979) --> Kop (992)
TemporalLich: OkaPoka (87) --> Dunnstral (109+) --> OkaPoka (167) --> Firebringer (285) --> OkaPoka (425+)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Dawn (Pregame; reference purposes only)

Sleepless Assassin: callforjudgement (14)

[Oversoul]

Both of Oka's reasons for scumreading Temp are utterly bizarre.

I am curious why you think they are utterly bizarre? The one about the reads not lining up seems pretty reasonable.

I am kind leaning on Temp or Skitter as one scum and Dunnstral being the other.

Where the hell are u dunny boi?

You should vote Dunn with me!

skitter if ur town please reread my iso and lich's iso

i just reread lich's

it's a town iso

Explain what makes it an unwavering town iso?

and he swaps votes from me to firebringer in between here so we can probs assume our positions of scumminess are swapped

eh the readslist hting is actually a legimate point

This sounds like you *really* want Temp to be town rather than think his posting is town.

basically the same minus you

oversoul probably loses the townread / goes down a tier

Well that's rude. Why?

eh i could see that narrative

still feel like scum would have figured out how to hammer you given that you've been at l-1 for like half a week if you're town here tho

This is probably the strongest argument for Oka-scum to be fair.

CFJ stronger town lean for 843[post].

I suspect that much of the playerlist is going to skip the past several pages.

Damn straight.

As for Kop himself, I don't remember much about him as a player but I remember low posting being pretty typical. I think there's a fair chance he's scum just based on other slots being town.

Saving this for later.

VOTE: Skitter

Skitter as pretty much sat on Oka for nearly 700 posts, as two other possibilities of who could be scum, but I don't recall Skitter engaging with them.

Hmm. Kop, had you read most of the recent pages by the time that you made this?

I'm thinking the scumteam is probably okapoka/firebringer. If oka flips green, dunn is likely scum

Saving this.

Kop was posturing to hammer me

I do think this is a bit of stretch given the actual course of events.

yes i can all roads lead to oka town

afaik your dunn scum appeared when he voted you

i'm saying that kop/dunn had ample oppurtunity to hammer you but didn't, and the fact that they didn't is indicative of scum!you

you're at once arguing that:

1.since they had the oppurtunity to hammer you but didn't that indicates that scum are already on wagon (hence not indicative of scum!you) - 809 and 810
2. hammering is hard and they couldn't have done it without causing red flags if scum 834

like basically in 1 you're saying they had the oppurtunity to hammer you but chose not to, and this points to town!them
and in 2 you're saying that they could not have hammered you in a not-suspicious fashion

like these don't make sense as a coherent thought process

it can't have been both easy adn hard to hammer you; apparently which it was is dependant on what you're trying to argue at the time

if anything i'd argue that this implies that *your* thoughts are mercurial

The one point that I will give Oka is that it is possible both scum were already on his wagon (although highly unlikely given what potential role allocation). I honestly don't feel like anything substantive came from the 11 pages since the last time I seriously posted. Other than the soft claim, which did help my orient myself out of the death tunnel that Oka has created.

we need a lynch
VOTE: skitter

Have you been reading the game? We should not lynch Skitter or Temp today.

Oversoul pushing on me feels weird. Why are they voting for me? Why haven't they done anything over the past few days?

I admittedly have not been present. I did that thing where I joined too many games and I am paying for it right now. I never learn. But since you're here, what feels weird? Admittedly, you are more of a deadline lynch, but I did not like 642. It felt like active lurking to me and removed the townlean on me. It is odd to me that you are immediately zoned in on this vote I put onto you rather than really try to parse any of the other wagons/options. Your reaction makes me feel better about my shot in the dark actually.

[Dunnstral]

Post 642 isn't in reference to you though?

Deadline lynch is a copout answer and we weren't that close to deadline when you actually voted me, and you never had any actual reasons to vote for me

It is odd to me that you are immediately zoned in on this vote I put onto you rather than really try to parse any of the other wagons/options.

I didn't immediately do anything though, you sat on your vote for so long that you got prodded

[Dunnstral]

and removed the townlean on me

What does this mean?

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: lich

[Oversoul]

Post 642 isn't in reference to you though?

Deadline lynch is a copout answer and we weren't that close to deadline when you actually voted me, and you never had any actual reasons to vote for me

It is odd to me that you are immediately zoned in on this vote I put onto you rather than really try to parse any of the other wagons/options.

I didn't immediately do anything though, you sat on your vote for so long that you got prodded

462 doesn't need to be about me to think you're scummy for it.

We have been getting 48 hour additions to the deadline like every day for the last 5 days. And yes, I did. I may not have attached them to the vote itself, but I made reference to the reason.

Hmm, maybe that was the product of having to catchup and confirmation bias. Looking through your iso it does appear that I was wrong about that comment.

and removed the townlean on me

What does this mean?

It was a fail because I am tired, but I meant it to say "removed the townlean for me" as in when I read it I moved you down from being a townlean.

[OkaPoka]

These two days felt like a waste

[OkaPoka]

Anyone online that wants to talk?

[Dunnstral]

Do you realize that 642 references 639?

[OkaPoka]

Dunn who is skitter's partner

[Dunnstral]

We'll figure that out tomorrow

[OkaPoka]

Dunn I need a compelling narrative

[Dunnstral]

I don't really do preflip stuff, a lot of the cast could be partners with Skitter. I'd also vote for Oversoul

[OkaPoka]

What happens if skitter flips town though?

[Dunnstral]

We move on and lynch someone else?

[Kop]

Well at this stage, it doesn't look like the Oka wagon is going to be the final wagon, there's got to be a compromise. You have 2/3 other possibilities, why not pursue them, I haven't seen your cases against them.

Are you townreading OkaPoka?

On another note, what's your read on TemporalLich?

I'm not necessarily town reading Oka. I can't possibly see scum tunnelling as hard as Oka in regards to wanting Lich lynched. Scum will obviously want to manipulate the game state I agree, but I don't see them putting a huge marker on there back by going into a hard tunnel that is almost making it a trade. Then posturing themselves into a position where they are going to look elsewhere if he doesn't get his own way, i.e he will force through a lynch on Skitter, and myself (you quoted the post #669 I think it was or somewhere around that region). But I'm not town reading him either because he has actively said he plays better as scum so I don't know for sure whether he's town or scum, hes somewhere in the middle.

Lich I'm not 100% sure, I don't think he's scum based on his contradictions. I can't see scum playing so loosely. I know I mentioned about the contradictions and said when does that tell stop, but I wanted to see what Skitter thought about it and has she not taken any other perceiving angle on it apart from town play carefree. I've not got a interest in voting there at this time, unless something changes.

But if this tunnel continues and we aren't exactly finding some middle ground, and we're getting nearer deadline, something will need to happen because if one or both are still around in day two, day two could potentially be another day one, but this time there will be some flips to also add to the mix. But it's going to take a better case if people need convincing. I will reread the whole interaction between the pair of them in the mean time.

From my point of view, OkaPoka is the most likely deadline lynch; there aren't four players (other than OkaPoka) with a strong townread there. Apparently, your read of the situation is similar. But in #857, you're scumreading skitter for not looking elsewhere for a compromise lynch? I can understand this behaviour if you think OkaPoka is strongly town, but not really in a case where you've been sort-of-on sort-of-off that wagon ever since you replaced in. FWIW, the reason you've given for townreading OkaPoka is stronger than the reason you've given for scumreading him, but you're acting like the two are identical; likewise, when you replaced in, there was a lot of shading but no intent. So I have the strong feeling that you a) want people to

think

you want OkaPoka lynched, but b) don't

actually

want OkaPoka lynched. That likely implies you're scum regardless of OkaPoka's alignment (as S/S, it's a great way to distance if he flips, and doesn't actually hurt him much; as S/T, you'd want to save a likely mislynch for a future day if you don't think scum are at real risk toDay).

I asked the question about Lich to see if you'd been trying to scumhunt anywhere other than your stated reads, and from your answer, I'm guessing you hadn't been. That's not good play as town (although not necessarily scum-indicative; some people aren't that good at town).

What I was scum reading Skitter for not wanting to look elsewhere for a compromise lynch, is simply because the wagon stagnated, it wasn't going anywhere and we've allowed the game to get closer to the deadline and it's boiled down to 2 real possibilities, to even 3 at one point. It's either Oka, Lich, or myself, Dunn being the outsider in all of this. Skitter had 2 or 3 possibilities but wanted to vote park and allowed herself to go with the flow, rather than trying to pursue other avenues in the possibility that Oka wasn't going to be lynched. Yes it stagnated at L-1 for quite some time, and that may well by scum indicative, but those other avenues could have been pressured also.

When the Oka wagon started to disintegrate, I felt just before then I couldn't see scum going to the lengths they have done to drive a wagon and trying to convince town, and getting into a tunnel. But in general I'm no good at reading people, so if Oka is the choice to lynch this time round, and if he flips red, then I'll openly put up my hands and admit I was wrong, even if it makes me look bad.

[OkaPoka]

Cfj are you purposely trying to fracture ?

[callforjudgement]

No. I don't believe I'm fracturing at all; rather, what's happened is that the game is fairly split as it is (between players who are more logical, and players who prefer different methods of solving the game). Some players (e.g. TemporalLich and you, on opposite sides) are popular lynch choices with one group but widely townread by the other, and in general each group is scumreading primarily people within the other group.

I have, however, been trying to point out the existence of the splits to avoid players trying to drive nonviable lynch wagons.

[callforjudgement]

We have been getting 48 hour additions to the deadline like every day for the last 5 days.

Huh? The deadline this game hasn't been extended at all.

[Dunnstral]

We have been getting 48 hour additions to the deadline like every day for the last 5 days.

No we haven't

[Kop]

We have been getting 48 hour additions to the deadline like every day for the last 5 days.

Huh? The deadline this game hasn't been extended at all.

Think Oversoul thinks this game is Micro 879.

[Dunnstral]

He doesn't have real reasons though. Red Flag.

It is odd to me that you are immediately zoned in on this vote I put onto you rather than really try to parse any of the other wagons/options. Your reaction makes me feel better about my shot in the dark actually. :lol:

On this occasion it's clear that he's not just confused with another game, he's just saying stuff to point to me. Why does he keep making stuff up to justify his vote?

[callforjudgement]

I need to sleep, and probably will be awake enough to participate before deadline but I'm not completely sure (my sleep schedule's been pretty messed up over the last few days).

Dunnstral, are you willing to vote for either OkaPoka or Kop as a compromise lynch?

[callforjudgement]

VOTE: OkaPoka

In case I don't get back online before deadline. (I consider this the most likely lynch to go through.)

[Dunnstral]

I don't think Oka is scum so no I wouldn't vote that, I probably won't vote Kop while Skitter's alignment is still in question