Large Normal 221 - Endgame

[popsofctown]

but if there

IS

an SK then I think that it makes a traitor almost nonexistent.

Why shouldn't KK full claim?

his avi is really cool, very macho


Really I want a couple scummy people to have to claim first and be put in an awkward position. Even if he like lolclaims JK i was fruit vendor it could still make a massclaim sheet that puts the scum somewhere uncomfortable

[nomnomnom]

I'd like to also note that the Of wagon has crazy levels of opposition with literally 0 arguments against her lynch.

No there are arguments against my lynch?

DeasVail gave his arguments, Kirari provided a meta-based one, that's just off the top of my head

There is an inexplicable amount of resistance to your lynch according to the amount of people defending you is what I am saying.

People have argued for and against otter WAYYYY more than what they've done with you.

[Kirari Momobami]

but if there

IS

an SK then I think that it makes a traitor almost nonexistent.

Why shouldn't KK full claim?

he probably should claim slightly more since his claim is kinda weird, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't see the logic in his claim coming from a scum POV given what he's said so far unless he planned to claim vig tomorrow.

[Kirari Momobami]

You are deadly wrong about what I would do as scum, or town for that matter lol

Deadly wrong huh?

[popsofctown]

the way normal queue traitor has been explained to me, being alive doesn't help his faction win the game anymore than being dead

a lynch that is used up on the traitor is necessarily not simultaneously used up on the groupscum

halfjester

No.

This is incorrect.

The traitor *cannot solo endgame* but he DOES count for scum wincondition.

If it is 2-1[groupscum]-1[traitor] the groupscum faction immediately wins even if there is a risk of the groupscum shooting the traitor because the traitor counts toward the scum wincon.

Losing a traitor means the groupscum needs an additional mislynch, it is objectively suboptimal for a traitor to get lynched, although the traitor DOES want to get lynched in lieu of the groupscum if they know there is only one groupscum remaining because then they would be endgamed. That's the only time the traitor would play suicidally.

Is it wrong that I play all my scum games by picking a team deepwolf that busses everyone else and try to get that player to endgame, eschewing all sweeps

cause I do and therefore all my traitors are halfjesters

[ofrhz]

I think I've done more than Otter. Obviously you disagree

[Kirari Momobami]

People have argued for and against otter WAYYYY more than what they've done with you.

Yes, and a big reason for this is due to the makeup of the wagon pushing him and the fact that 0 people on that wagon have actually produced any particularly compelling arguments one way or the other, including you whose actual argument for ofrhz scum is incredibly weak given how much you're complaining about the lack of support for the wagon LOL

[nomnomnom]

You are deadly wrong about what I would do as scum, or town for that matter lol

Deadly wrong huh?

If you ended in a scum game as town against me you would probably lose because you have a wrong image of how I play as scum. People tend to hardcore read me town as scum for a reason

[ofrhz]

lol

[Kirari Momobami]

Is it wrong that I play all my scum games by picking a team deepwolf that busses everyone else and try to get that player to endgame, eschewing all sweeps

cause I do and therefore all my traitors are halfjesters

okay sure but the traitor does not play as a jester, they just play as someone who it is fine for the scumteam to bus if they want to... idk maybe I'm not really gelling with what you mean by "halfjester" but it feels like a needlessly convoluted description. To me traitor plays more like survivor than jester, I'd call it a half-jester. In fact survivors are perhaps better understood as "half-traitors" if you really wanted to get into mech conceptualizations an balance discussions but that's kinda offtopic.

[Nero Cain]

Is it wrong that I play all my scum games by picking a team deepwolf that busses everyone else and try to get that player to endgame, eschewing all sweeps

I'm going to lynch you in any game if you ever lynch scum.

[DeasVail]

I’ll still ask people to reconsider Otter as an option.

Nonetheless I plan on re-reviewing all my reads, hopefully some time today.

[ofrhz]

Do you think you're out of your scumrange Deas?

[Nero Cain]

I mean, the logic that the mafia cop points to there being a 3rd party/traitor is just kinda eh....like maybe it does but then I'm like "well it could just be standard boilerplate" and not mod spoiling.

[Kirari Momobami]

The point was more that for me to come up with scum theatre like this I would need to be better than I already am.
I know my weaknesses and this is one of them.

Offtopic but I don't really think I am good honestly, although some people say I am.

If you ended in a scum game as town against me you would probably lose because you have a wrong image of how I play as scum. People tend to hardcore read me town as scum for a reason

"I'm not good enough to be scum this game"

"I'm so good as scum that you wouldn't be scumreading me this game if I was scum"

[nomnomnom]

It's fun that Kirari is trying her hardest to try and decredibilize me whenever I talk about an Of wagon and lynch, and tries to do so by calling my slot a bunch of different scum flavors and is now trying to redirect the heat on me with literally one day on the clock.

If you don't want to believe in my push, just look at how she reacts to my push and perhaps you'll get a clue at what's going on here.

[nomnomnom]

The point was more that for me to come up with scum theatre like this I would need to be better than I already am.
I know my weaknesses and this is one of them.

Offtopic but I don't really think I am good honestly, although some people say I am.

If you ended in a scum game as town against me you would probably lose because you have a wrong image of how I play as scum. People tend to hardcore read me town as scum for a reason

"I'm not good enough to be scum this game"

"I'm so good as scum that you wouldn't be scumreading me this game if I was scum"

There's no contradiction here. You're just trying to decredibilize me.
I stand by what I said. I am bad at scumtheater and I am trying to get better at it. But I fooled town on my first game on this site and I was nominated for a really good fakeclaim in a scum micro I played in. I don't think of myself as good but clearly people think I am good and people read me town when I roll scum which kind of escapes me, but whatever.

Anyway, try something else.

[Kirari Momobami]

I’ll still ask people to reconsider Otter as an option.

It's maybe worth still thinking about, I don't think the dumbtell makes him 100% town, I've seen scum try to fake dumbtells literally in the last week under not totally different circumstances, but... this particular one I find slightly more convincing :/

I think the level of disengagement necessary for the scumtell to be plausible is concerning regardless

[Kirari Momobami]

decredibilize

[Kirari Momobami]

Actually can everyone remind me what their read of Vork is right now?

I still want this btw, I know the thread has massively picked up but wouldn't mind a quick check in on this read from everyone

[popsofctown]

Is it wrong that I play all my scum games by picking a team deepwolf that busses everyone else and try to get that player to endgame, eschewing all sweeps

I'm going to lynch you in any game if you ever lynch scum.

But I lynch scum as town too, I'm a good scumhunter.

Actually shouldn't that post include a vote for me catching RedFlavor RedHanded this one?

[Nero Cain]

oh, that's right!

VOTE: pops

[popsofctown]

my point is you should play aggressively and proactively as traitor because the loss of EV if you get lynched seems halved. The way I play VT in role madness
No one in this game is playing that way except may KK. Everyone else is varying between tryhard encyclopedia entries or dehydrated lurking or low energy flablablah

[popsofctown]

lol fabulous mafia right here

[ofrhz]

Vork is prob town