Open 762: CK9++ [Over!]

[Gamma Emerald]

So Drew thinks Gob and Thesp is SvS
and Gob thinks Drew and Thesp is SvS

Yet you both are voting each other.

What do you make of it?

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma
OH
I misunderstood then. There is a spreadsheet with the information in it, but effectively I’m doing a study on RQS. The information may or may not prove valuable after my next question.

Okay, it's a multi game thing, would've liked to have that be more clear earlier. I still feel beyond that you do lack follow up in general, so what I'd suggest you do is just go through your ISO and see what questions are unanswered or have been answered but not resolved
FYI you're in my null pile now

[Gamma Emerald]

Speaking of next questions:
@All: Do you think tunneling is effective as town or scum, and why/why not?

Also, I’m with Drew on this one. Gobble/Thes could be a real thing. I’m leaning more chainsaw than white knight here.

Tunneling is probably more effective at face value as scum, but town can probably use it to get reactions

[Gamma Emerald]

Thespio?

Sorry been on mobile, hard to track two games at the same time!

Then your phone is shitty

What are you trying to achieve with this post?
Seriously, what is the point of this?

I'm able to play several games while doing it mobile only, so I'm essentially saying he's full of shit

[Phillammon]

Apologies, weather has not let up. Reading over the last few pages: Drew looking worse by the second, Gobble making a poor first impression on me. I'm preferring chemist and thesp in that order as lynches, and if push comes to shove with deadline will vote Thesp, but not feeling particular time pressure on this one.

Gamma is coming across townie for reasons I struggle to articulate, which at least means I have *a* read on them now.

[James Brafin]

Imply is pinging me hard. It feels like most of his reads so far have been based on the fact that “scum can fake this,” which is a BS reason to read anyone for anything. By that logic, scum can fake ANYTHING, and this whole game is pointless. But maybe I’m just oblivious. Also, the need for those people to validate his reads I don’t like. It feels LAMIST.

But see, he hasn't even SRed the Fish. He's just said that Fish can't be townlocked based on his towny catchup.
And the reason most of his conversation has been based around that is because that is what the discussion has been around: that is to say, the Fish's catchup and it's towniness (or relative lack thereof, from Imp's POV).
Additionally, scum can fake certain things - but not every thing. Imp has never said that scum can fake everything, just that the things the Fish has been doing have been fakeable by clever scum.
And asking for others to look at your reads is never LAMIST, nor should it be considered so. It is trying to make discussion over things - that is to say, what town should do.
(All this defence is what I meant when I said I felt some mindmeld with Imp - I've understood where he's been coming from on pretty much all quarters).

@James

Your first two points are valid. I misremembered how that very long, annoying argument went and thought that Implo’s POV was much more general than it actually was.
The third, I’m not sure about. I can understand discussing read lists, and even how that their discussion can be useful. But to create a read list and then to ask others to tell you what they think to me feels A) lazy, and I’ve never heard of lazy town, B) like they’re just saying “Look at me, I have a read list! Look at me, I’m so townie for having a read list and wanting to discuss it!” instead of letting it happen organically, and C) like a great excuse to scumread someone because they don’t agree with your reasoning.

[gobbledygook]

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Still catching up, not sure why i cant get in a a groove here, but I went through Phil's iso.......what did you find so odd.

Also, from skimming the game I was not liking James, but his interactions do seem town sided to meUNVOTE:

Why thespio though

did you *see* post 151???

I directly asked him about 151, hoping to hear some reasoning momentarily.

Drew, what do you feel is off with 151?

I mean, not that I'm objecting.

I disliked it initially for laziness and feigning interaction and I wanted of an explanation which I never got(did notice he is close to a prod though, maybe he is busy or something).

But, pers brings up a great point in 214 which really gets me thinking. That coupled with the hole being an ass thing.

I hope he comes back, none of this really gets sorted out with a replacement.

I feel like you guys are too scared to do this
VOTE: Thespio

I would prefer to wait for his response/potential replacement to respond.

Dry fits 303 looks worse than his vote imo.

I would still like to here from thespio before I decide who to vote though, and tbh I really don't like the thespio wagon.

These are your 4 posts concerning Thespio. Let me know if this list is incorrect.

---

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

1.x

VOTE: Persivul

2.x

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

More of a reactionary sort of player?

1.y

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

But I did see it, my second post acknowledged it
I just didn't pay attention the the "who"

Isn't that basically what I just said? Let me rephrase, you were not aware of who the IC was whereas I(and Implosion I believe?) was not aware of the reveal.

Either way, point still stands about Persivul.

3.x

You say it's a reaction to someone who didn't see the reveal
But I feel like I'm getting pedantic here so w/e

Well, tbf, I didn't realize you did acknowledge it in your second post until you mentioned. So to that point I was incorrect.

But, the greater point was Persivul's reaction to someone wanting to put pressure on the IC when they didn't realize said person was the IC.

Like a somewhat buddying of the only confirmed townie.

4.x

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

^ Person with a sense of humor.

Lol sick burn bro.

What good motivation is there is letting it drag on 'for hilarity' though? Or even for making the post? There was nothing there to help the game move forward or to help town find scum.

Bah, still rubbing me the wrong way....but now for different reasons.

5.x

I need to step away from Persivul for a bit.

I think implosion's town tho, even if their reads are the complete opposite of mine.

Sakura, while talking reads......what do you think of per and myself?

2.y

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

More of a reactionary sort of player?

Also Sakura, can you answer this por favor.

3.y

Why must it come from a scum mindset?

Maybe I am thinking of my own meta, but I am way more likely to as town to scum slip vs being scum and scum slip. Imo, getting people angry just mislynches town.

6.x

These are the posts that I think are you focusing on Persivul and Sakura. During the same period you were questioning Thespio, you also made these posts. There are 6 posts focused on Persivul (denoted by "[number].x" )and 3 posts (denoted by "[number].y") focused on Sakura. That is 4 more than the ones directed at Thespio. These are the posts that made me think you had a fixation on Persivul and Sakura.

I personally think that this type of behavior shows you were trying to keep your options open to join a Thespio wagon. The Thespio quotes in the first half of this post look like you are gearing up for a vote based off him not answering your first question. That makes me suspicious of you.

Oddly enough, until your vote on me, I did not think you had enough conviction in your beliefs/actions/votes. Your recent play is making me feel better about you, but I am having trouble understanding why your play now is only becoming townier after I made a case against you.

[gobbledygook]

James, I think that scum benefit more from tunnels. It allows them to have a lot of content without actually doing anything. In my opinion, it also allows scum to act wantonly around claim/hammer time since they can act more brazenly when believing a claim or not. Tunnels are distracting and sap the town of energy, time, and focus.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh also spangled, I dont think i make good points, I just read people.

Fair enough.
Sorry for that, though — it was an unnecessarily insulting way to make a point.

It's not insulting is saying the truth.
Im not sure if I mentioned this already I probably did, but im pretty bad at explaining things.

[gobbledygook]

Thespio, what policy do you think James is pursuing against you?

[Sakura Hana]

Also eh, i may have been wrong on gob.

[gobbledygook]

Also eh, i may have been wrong on gob.

Honestly starting to feel that way about most of my reads. I would probably bet my farm that Skygazer is town though. Thought her reaction to my predecessor was really town.

[Thespio]

Thespio, what policy do you think James is pursuing against you?

inactivity, hes determined without evaluating anyone who is active that I am lurking scum rather then low activity town, Who benefits from pushing a lynch 4-5 days before the deadline?

[gobbledygook]

Nothing that I can see in the iso for James says that he is going after you for activity.

[Sakura Hana]

Thespio is just misrepresenting everything.

[James Brafin]

OH MY FREAKING GOSH
THIS IS SUCH A MISREP
FIRST OFF
I legit think you are scum. This is not a policy lynch. The only reason you’re saying that is because of my first post, as a convenient excuse to dismiss my read/push. But if you were actually paying any freaking attention, you’d know that’s bull because I policy lynch toxicity, and you’re not being toxic. Just blatantly ignoring the gamestate.
SECOND OFF
I am pushing you as scum because you have coasted and generated literally no content this entire game, never followed up on any of your “reads” or opinions, never voted, just casually shaded other players and never explained why, have completely misrepresented me to paint as scum, and are completely ignoring other players posts and votes in order to push your own agenda. And in case you haven’t been paying attention (which would not surprise me in the slightest) I’m not the only one who agrees with at least some of this, because there has been a wagon on you almost all day long, and it is gaining freaking momentum. And guess what? The reason I am leading the charge is because not a single one of your actions can be resolved to a town mindset imo. If someone else wants to explain why any of your behaviors are town, go ahead, but they’re going to be hard pressed to do that, because town doesn’t lurk and wolf in this manner.

Are we done here?

[James Brafin]

Thespio is just misrepresenting everything.

What? Really? I couldn’t tell.
*sarcasm*

[Formerfish]

Thespio, what policy do you think James is pursuing against you?

inactivity, hes determined without evaluating anyone who is active that I am lurking scum rather then low activity town, Who benefits from pushing a lynch 4-5 days before the deadline?

Thes, are you current in the thread or are you behind?

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Still catching up, not sure why i cant get in a a groove here, but I went through Phil's iso.......what did you find so odd.

Also, from skimming the game I was not liking James, but his interactions do seem town sided to meUNVOTE:

Why thespio though

did you *see* post 151???

I directly asked him about 151, hoping to hear some reasoning momentarily.

Drew, what do you feel is off with 151?

I mean, not that I'm objecting.

I disliked it initially for laziness and feigning interaction and I wanted of an explanation which I never got(did notice he is close to a prod though, maybe he is busy or something).

But, pers brings up a great point in 214 which really gets me thinking. That coupled with the hole being an ass thing.

I hope he comes back, none of this really gets sorted out with a replacement.

I feel like you guys are too scared to do this
VOTE: Thespio

I would prefer to wait for his response/potential replacement to respond.

Dry fits 303 looks worse than his vote imo.

I would still like to here from thespio before I decide who to vote though, and tbh I really don't like the thespio wagon.

These are your 4 posts concerning Thespio. Let me know if this list is incorrect.

---

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

1.x

VOTE: Persivul

2.x

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

More of a reactionary sort of player?

1.y

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

But I did see it, my second post acknowledged it
I just didn't pay attention the the "who"

Isn't that basically what I just said? Let me rephrase, you were not aware of who the IC was whereas I(and Implosion I believe?) was not aware of the reveal.

Either way, point still stands about Persivul.

3.x

You say it's a reaction to someone who didn't see the reveal
But I feel like I'm getting pedantic here so w/e

Well, tbf, I didn't realize you did acknowledge it in your second post until you mentioned. So to that point I was incorrect.

But, the greater point was Persivul's reaction to someone wanting to put pressure on the IC when they didn't realize said person was the IC.

Like a somewhat buddying of the only confirmed townie.

4.x

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

^ Person with a sense of humor.

Lol sick burn bro.

What good motivation is there is letting it drag on 'for hilarity' though? Or even for making the post? There was nothing there to help the game move forward or to help town find scum.

Bah, still rubbing me the wrong way....but now for different reasons.

5.x

I need to step away from Persivul for a bit.

I think implosion's town tho, even if their reads are the complete opposite of mine.

Sakura, while talking reads......what do you think of per and myself?

2.y

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

More of a reactionary sort of player?

Also Sakura, can you answer this por favor.

3.y

Why must it come from a scum mindset?

Maybe I am thinking of my own meta, but I am way more likely to as town to scum slip vs being scum and scum slip. Imo, getting people angry just mislynches town.

6.x

These are the posts that I think are you focusing on Persivul and Sakura. During the same period you were questioning Thespio, you also made these posts. There are 6 posts focused on Persivul (denoted by "[number].x" )and 3 posts (denoted by "[number].y") focused on Sakura. That is 4 more than the ones directed at Thespio. These are the posts that made me think you had a fixation on Persivul and Sakura.

I personally think that this type of behavior shows you were trying to keep your options open to join a Thespio wagon. The Thespio quotes in the first half of this post look like you are gearing up for a vote based off him not answering your first question. That makes me suspicious of you.

Oddly enough, until your vote on me, I did not think you had enough conviction in your beliefs/actions/votes. Your recent play is making me feel better about you, but I am having trouble understanding why your play now is only becoming townier after I made a case against you.

This post bleeds town to me. Gob just took Drew apart with ease. This post added to this one from earlier,

Spoiler:

That's... an awkward reason to townread someone who has many more reasons to be townread.

It's a really awkward reason to focus on for explaining your TR.

Is it though? Explain to me why it’s awkward

for me

to use that as a basis to townread a player.

First of all it seems you're ignoring everything else Fish has posted.
Second have you never seen scum ask for reads lists?

1) I just joined this game. Did you expect me to have read 30 pages of a game that quickly? I find your questioning of my read suspicious. You admit that there are multiple reasons to think that The Fish is town, but then find my reason "awkward" when there is very little likelihood that I would have read enough of the game to see any of the other reasons.
2) I have, but The Fish seems to be going through ISOs before asking for specific read lists. He appears to be crosschecking previously stated reads with the current read lists that people are posting. That is town. What has The Fish done that is more town?

I will begin reading this game from the beginning.

Oh and this one

Spoiler:

It is a couple of reasons. I felt like Drew blew Persivul’s anger out of proportion. I also like Drew is facesitting on a lot of major wagons and parking his vote until a better opportunity presents itself. He is being too cautious with his vote. I also think that a Drew flip will help me get better reads on Sakura and Persivul. Drew is oddly fixated on those two.

Can you explain the overall case on Thespio? I feel like he is suffering from the same thing Phil suffered from - weird ways of communicating his feelings.

Oh and this gem

Spoiler:

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

I find this reaction to Persivul to be embellishing Persivul's tone. I did not find Persivul's reaction to be aggressive. He may have used aggressive or more blunt language, but Persivul did not

feel

aggressive to me when I read this exchange. This post is not problematic in its own right, but this post essentially becomes a crutch that Drew leans on for a few days.

VOTE: Persivul

You say it's a reaction to someone who didn't see the reveal
But I feel like I'm getting pedantic here so w/e

Well, tbf, I didn't realize you did acknowledge it in your second post until you mentioned. So to that point I was incorrect.

But, the greater point was Persivul's reaction to someone wanting to put pressure on the IC when they didn't realize said person was the IC.

Like a somewhat buddying of the only confirmed townie.

I disagree completely with the notion that what Persivul did is "buddying the only confirmed townie". I think Persivul's reaction is to someone wasting their effort in scumhunting by going after an IC. To me, it looked like Persivul was more attacking those who did not know Skellen was the IC and less defending Skellen.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

^ Person with a sense of humor.

Lol sick burn bro.

What good motivation is there is letting it drag on 'for hilarity' though? Or even for making the post? There was nothing there to help the game move forward or to help town find scum.

Bah, still rubbing me the wrong way....but now for different reasons.

I do not like this post at all. Persivul is not gaining any traction at this point and the tone from this looks like Drew is upset that no one else is talking about this I do not like the last line of the first sentence either. That line reads to me as holier-than-thou like Drew wants to look like an advocate for the gamestate/scumhunting.

Didn't say it did. I'm asking a question. Is there any way that it comes from a town mindset? How is this a town-aligned way to approach the game?

I agree with you, and as I think about it I dislike 151 more and more.

But, if it isn't town aligned it's.....

This, if I remember correctly, was before Thespio had garnered any votes. However, several people had aroused suspicion and dislike for Thespio. I think this is Drew waiting for others to move onto the wagon so that he has his own basis for jumping onto the wagon later.

All of these posts show why Gob is town, these are all gold.

[Formerfish]

Drew looking worse by the second, Gobble making a poor first impression on me.

This is off to me. I would assume that drew was looking bad because Gob was pushing him and casing Drew. So to like the case brought by Gob, but not liking Gob seems like a contradiction on your thought process.

[Formerfish]

Also eh, i may have been wrong on gob.

Do you have a feel for the whole list yet? Your reads list is a bit sparse for how long youve been in the game.

[Formerfish]

I am lurking scum

Your position is that JB is pushing you solely for a policy lynch based on your activity? Correct?

What would I find about your town game meta diving, your scum game? Are you usually inactive as town? You seem aware of your activity and even since you came back active you havent really done much to propel the game forward, you are stuck yelling at someone you think is trying to policy lynch you.

That is the laziest play I have ever seen, especially when you had people defending you and now are contemplating voting you.

[Formerfish]

Thes, you also apparently have 2 reads, Phil and JB are scum to you, and thats all I have. Want to enlighten us to the rest of your reads, do you have any more or is that it?

[Sakura Hana]

Do you have a feel for the whole list yet?

Not really?
Idk i havent been counting.

[Formerfish]

Do you have a feel for the whole list yet?

Not really?
Idk i havent been counting.

How is Drew feeling to you?

Gamma?

Sky?

Pers?

Those are the people you havent really talked about so far.