Mini Normal 2076: Game Over

[MaryJoLisa]

Hello Penguin and LUV. And hello list full of people who I do not know.

[MaryJoLisa]

Hi MJL!

What do you think of my thoughts on the scum team?

I don't know those people, so they're as good as any other picks I guess.

[MaryJoLisa]

Hey folks, happy to be back.

VOTE: MaryJoLisa if that even is your name

I confess. It is not my name. How did you catch me in that lie so quickly?

[MaryJoLisa]

Lol I actually tried to replace into otters vs penguins but wasn't quick enough. But that's ok because I might have been biased due to the clear superiority of otters over penguins.

If MJL is lying about her name, what else???

I think NM is the only one here I've played with before. So far on par with what I remember.

The only other thing I've said is that I don't know the majority of the player list, and that is true.

[MaryJoLisa]

Is Pen Pineapple Apple Pen a commonly used reference for fruit vending?

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay, so we have like *zero* information on how this game is setup other than what we see in our own role PMs, right? We don't even have a bare framework to flesh out, right?

[MaryJoLisa]

That's how closed setups work.

Well - you know it adheres to the normal guidelines, but other than that...what I said above.

Okay, then why are you voting for shadd? there's three of you voting for this player, so what do you see that I'm not seeing?

[MaryJoLisa]

That's how closed setups work.

Well - you know it adheres to the normal guidelines, but other than that...what I said above.

Okay, then why are you voting for shadd? there's three of you voting for this player, so what do you see that I'm not seeing?

What's wrong with me voting for schadd?

How would this being an open setup change that fact?

If three of you are voting for Shadd_, maybe you've arrived at something that you can sink your teeth into.

P-edit: Okay, now only two of you.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL, you appear to be a genuine human, as I am a genuine human.

[Confirm]

[MaryJoLisa]

Shit. No one else hit confirm. You're just feeding the beast if you do.

[MaryJoLisa]

whos excited to PLAY! SOME! MAFIA!

Sure am! Especially with the higher ups of MafiaScum, if I'm correct

Oh. I have a very different reaction to interacting with new people.

Good on ya!

[MaryJoLisa]

I’m an informed Miller who knows there isn’t any Loyal modifiers and there is a total of 4 scum. -Morality

*chokes on food*

The grammar bothered me as well.

[MaryJoLisa]

Were they in fact an informed miller in a game with no loyal modifiers and four scum?

[MaryJoLisa]

That would be inconceivable. This must be Russian propaganda! Fake news!

Zuckerberg, careful with your alt slips.

I was thinking the same thing at first, but it still fits with Zuckerberg. The propaganda was distributed via Facebook.

[MaryJoLisa]

You're like the first person to acknowledge it so *shrugs*

I thought I acknowledged it.

[MaryJoLisa]

Zuckerberg, I'm going to straight-up ask you to stop the in-character shit; I think it's pretty funny but it's always really crap to have to read a player through an extra layer of artifice that they're putting on (given that artifice is the main thing for which you have to look when you scumhunt). It's going to be tiresome and anti-town. I don't really expect you to agree to this, but I wanted to get my objection on record in as honest and polite a way as possible.

Noted, but I'm pretty sure he is *not* going to stop.

[MaryJoLisa]

What's the in-character Zuckerberg thing? Everyone has been mentioning it. Is that a reference I'm supposed to get?

The player "Zuckerberg" is acting as Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg. Review his posts and you'll see it.

[MaryJoLisa]

But I like Zuckerberg.

[MaryJoLisa]

That sucks. We were a *bad room!*

[MaryJoLisa]

[MaryJoLisa]

I did some game homework. It was cool, I guess. I learned some things like what I could possibly expect and what cannot be possible.

Serial killers are not possible in this setup.

So. That's game related.

[MaryJoLisa]

I promise not to jump down your throat if you have questions for me. Maybe we can set the tone here.

[MaryJoLisa]

Okok here it goes then:

There has been 3 consecutive lynches on Schadd. I know that was during RVS (and we probably still are) but might just have been as a context to execute a scum plan without town questioning it.

Yeah three people very quickly was odd to me. One person for RVS, okay, but three people gave me pause. I thought it might be because people had informed PMs or maybe because Shadd_ has a scum tell that people who know him would recognize.

That idea did *not* go over well.

[MaryJoLisa]

This post makes me want to commit suicide.

You mean like self-vote?

[MaryJoLisa]

This post makes me want to commit suicide.

You mean like self-vote?

More like I feel really really really bad about myself and might need a break from this game. Or drink a lot.

Don't feel bad about yourself! These games can feel pretty heated sometimes and it might feel like stuff really *matters* and people will be disappointed if you choose incorrectly, but it's only a game. Have fun with it! After the game we'll have some post game laughs and slap each other on the back.

[MaryJoLisa]

Eh maybe

I remember when I was just a wee little pikachu, I found the idea of voting people, and then voting other people later, kinda weird. Why would you vote someone unless you were reasonably confident they were a bad guy? But I feel like I got past that in a relatively short order, and this dip into AtE has me feeling like this slot is just not town

Everyone learns at their own pace and different things will resonate with different people.

He says he's new, he sounds new, mods validated his newness, so treat him like he's new.

[MaryJoLisa]

I mean I wanna say I kinda got over it in like... 10 pages of my first game? Maybe people adjust at different rates though, or newbie queue has just become it's own little world

The newbie queue feels to me wildly different than the rest of the forum.

[MaryJoLisa]

Look, now I'm fucking up big time because I actually brought up the fact that I was new just to try to justify that I'm a stupid piece of shit. That's what's going on.

I'm not fucking new to this game. I'm new to this website and I won't give shit for an excuse anymore.

I'm going drinking now. GIF, you might as well get me out of there.

If I understand the rules, I think you're now obliged to leave the game. If that's the case, I hope you will consider joining another newbie game. It can be a frustrating game sometimes, but it's still fun.

[MaryJoLisa]

i wanna say detective pikachu is pink ball

That's what I thought!

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL, why did you read and respond to parts of my post 130 but not respond to my vote on you?

You were stating your view, but you were not asking me to follow up on anything. Also, I didn't find your vote to be particularly unreasonable. I'm assuming we don't know each other, so you don't know what kinds of things are stressors for me. Your vote struck me as logical under the circumstances as I'm perceiving them.

[MaryJoLisa]

I haven't found a reason to vote yet.

[MaryJoLisa]

So

@Mod

are we keeping Redemption or not? I'm not clear on the rules, so I'd like to know the status of this player.

[MaryJoLisa]

So

@Mod

are we keeping Redemption or not? I'm not clear on the rules, so I'd like to know the status of this player.

I'm actually waiting for zuck to get replaced asap as we have a slot hole there. if redemp seriously requests replace out, that's up to him & the mod.

Why so interested in that? thoughts on the gamestate or reads right now?

I'm interested in that because I specifically told Redemption that I wouldn't jump down this throat for voicing his thoughts. Then two people voted for him and he suddenly felt really defeated. My first time rolling scum was in a room full of far more experienced players and it was *really* stressful and intimidating. I see a lot of my first scum experience in this reaction but I don't want to make another player, particularly a newbie, miserable in the game.

So I'm not sure where the line gets drawn here. I think understanding the status of the player will be a step in the right direction.

[MaryJoLisa]

What is that?

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh dear.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Penguin Power

, I found someone to vote for.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[MaryJoLisa]

I have no idea who you mean.

One way to make it more obvious would be to use the player's account name.

[MaryJoLisa]

I think the MJL/NM relationship is going to be interesting.

Greeeeeaaaaat.

Wait until he makes a few more posts, then you'll see

Yeah, I think I see it now.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Performer: No wait, you're Danny Devito because you're a performer.

[MaryJoLisa]

Tinfoil hat theory time (esp. seeing as I'm giving redeption the same treatment)
MJL is channeling her newbiness to deflect/avoid suspicion.

Do you find a consistent trend of me doing that across all games for the purpose of avoiding suspicion? Or do you find an overall upward trend of increasing comprehension of the game as I gather experience?

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: TingTing

I know that one! That one's me!!

[MaryJoLisa]

Do you find a consistent trend of me doing that across all games for the purpose of avoiding suspicion? Or do you find an overall upward trend of increasing comprehension of the game as I gather experience?

This.

I don't like how you simultameously play the confused newbie card and can pull this type of analysis off.
This discord vexes me

I'm both at the same time. I'm happy to answer questions about my comprehension of the game and you can check that with past games. A big factor in what you're picking up on is in my own personal confidence in what I know and how much I perceive that I don't know. Another factor is my comfort level with the room.

[MaryJoLisa]

I still can't figure out who Danny Devito is.

[MaryJoLisa]

Tinfoil hat theory time (esp. seeing as I'm giving redeption the same treatment)
MJL is channeling her newbiness to deflect/avoid suspicion.

As MJL rightly says, I don't know her, so hard for me to entirely agree with this, but I do think her posting so far could fit as scum who's trying out a few things to say to see if any of them make her look town, without having much of an actual contribution. I'm not super confident, but there's something stilted here that feels uncomfortable.

Mini Normal 2068 is me trying my hand in an open setup for the first time. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79261. If you read it, please be sure to browse the mason PT and the dead thread.

[MaryJoLisa]

*Sorry, I meant

closed

setups.

[MaryJoLisa]

I had been at L-1 with Vorkuta's vote and no one called it?

[MaryJoLisa]

Ohhhh! Okay, then.

[MaryJoLisa]

I voted mary due to the awkward 226 & who even talks like that in 247 ??

People who are nice?

[MaryJoLisa]

Who?

No idea. I'm still trying to figure out who Danny Devito is.

[MaryJoLisa]

We'll find out in the next vote count.

[MaryJoLisa]

Guys stahp
Also I'm happy w/ redemption's moonlogic.

What is moonlogic?

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: MaryJoLisa
This feels like scum having trouble coming up with an entrance

That is probably the scummiest post in the game so far. It is referring to MaryJoLisa pointing out the three horsemen that actually lynched Schadd at the same time for no reason and calling it a scum entrance while she pointed out what no one had the balls to say.

Just to be clear because this whole thing originated with me. The Normal setup possibilities include informed roles (and a bunch of other shit I don't yet fully understand the nuances of). I don't know to what extent "informed" means, but it's been my experience that asking questions about what's possible *very often* results in answers like, "that can't be ruled out of the setup." Because this attribute is different than the games I'm more familiar with, I felt it perfectly reasonable to wonder if Penguin Power didn't have some information provided in his PM or other people didn't have information on Penguin Power's alignment that might lead them to sheep off his vote.

As far as I'm concerned, fire breathing, poison dart wielding unicorns could be in play and it's all good as long as it's "balanced" on the other side. (I get that this isn't a theme game. It was just an example.)

So Redemption, I didn't *see* something obvious that other people saw and they just didn't have the ovaries to say something. They probably just have a better idea of what is more likely or less likely to happen.

[MaryJoLisa]

Please vote the usernames not some other names that are not usernames

If that's the case, NM's vote on me shouldn't count. My username isn't Ting Ting.

[MaryJoLisa]

Okiedokie then. I'm not getting the townvibes off of Redemption like everyone else apparently is, but I'm not going to be able to fully sort him today either.

I'm not getting town vibes off Redemption. I don't really know what i'm getting, but they're definitely not *town* vibes.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL I don't think NM is a viable candidate today. You have thoughts on a different vote?

I believe Redemption is a solid choice, but the last pressure wagon on him didn't go well. neither for him, nor for the game state.

[MaryJoLisa]

Wow...we just solved two out of three.

Good on us.

I'm TingTing
LuckyOtter is Pet Rock
Who is Easty and who is Danny Devito?

[MaryJoLisa]

nor for the game state.

I disagree- penguin and I TR him as a result of his "flailing" (semantically incorrect but appropriate)

The flailing is exactly why I SR him. I think the stress of hiding something is what that reaction was. My first experience as scum was ridiculously stressful. But then again, I didn't have a partner in that game.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Vorkuta, sorry, you did guess Danny first. How is that not the answer? Willing to lynch NM just for that (actually no, and not willing to do a policy lynch unless we can't come to any other kind of consensus).

@MJL: How do you feel about Gamma and LUV as options?

Gamma: Who even is this person? I need to see more posts.
LUV? Meh. I'm neutral here. LUV, help me feel less neutral about you.

VOTE: Little Uzi Vert

[MaryJoLisa]

My first experience as scum was ridiculously stressful

ehhh...
He's flailing because he's been lynched D1 as VT before (Newbie 1928)- the "early lynch" would explain his flailing more than "being scum" IN MY VERY HUMBLE OPINION.

My own experience in Newbie 1923 has colored my experience of what first time scum stress may look and feel like. I can't speak for what Redemption is actually going through, but it looks to me like my own first time scum roll.

Whatever it is, I do believe it is a *genuine* reaction.

[MaryJoLisa]

Whatever it is, I do believe it is a *genuine* reaction.

Ditto- hence:

-We can agree that he'll sort better/later/with more content and that there are more pressing slots to address
-kinda rude to lynch a newbie D1 2 games in a row

Thus I am against a redemption lynch for now, and I'm done with trying to wagon him

as I don't want to break him

I can agree with this completely. Hence my hesitation in voting for him.

[MaryJoLisa]

That was cute, Shadd. I too applaud the effort.

[MaryJoLisa]

#74&#79 are actually suspicious as MJL has several games under her belt and I'm 90% sure

too lazy to read

there has been similar RVS funny stuff in at least one. Her level of

ovaries

suspicion/git-pings does not match her experience and analysis, but I'll table

US, not UK

that for now

Asking a question to understand the setup is scummy? I have two closed setups under my belt. One I left early D1 as town mason and you can see the confusion spelled out very plainly. I was confused about everything.

The other was a Hydra and I stuck with it in the scum and Hydra PTs asking tons of stupid newbie questions all game long.

And GuyInFreezer had to answer a few stupid newbie questions as well. Sure glad he's not playing the game if asking questions gets ya a scum read.

Please, seriously, break down for me *exactly* what is scummy about me asking a question?

[MaryJoLisa]

Psyche, you seem like you know what you're talking about.

Do me! Analyze me!

[MaryJoLisa]

I feel neglected.

[MaryJoLisa]

okay, fine. If your analysis was going to make me glow with pride over my natural psychological normalcy or better yet my own intellectual achievements, then I'd hope you'd be very forthcoming! But if you feel maybe you're not ready to put forth such contributions to my character, I will totally understand an respect that.

[MaryJoLisa]

maryjolisa i hate to be the one to tell you this but you got bugs in your brain. just all sorts of little critters up in there

Yeah, I know. Maybe the caffeine will help clear them away.

[MaryJoLisa]

maryjolisa i hate to be the one to tell you this but you got bugs in your brain. just all sorts of little critters up in there

Yeah, I know. Maybe the caffeine will help clear them away.

[MaryJoLisa]

what am i supposed to do with this? all i have is redemption's newbielogic

Redemption is apparently not new to Mafia. From what I can see, he’s never claimed to be a newbie to the game at all.

From his completed game Newbie 1928:

I'm new to the website, but I'm certainly not new to the mafia game.

I'm having difficulty getting the link to work for the quote, so here it is: viewtopic.php?p=10889179#p10889179

Suddenly the continued misuse of “lynch” instead of “vote”, in spite of being corrected multiple times, is sounding like he’s trying to construct a newbie persona.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm not fucking new to this game. I'm new to this website and I won't give shit for an excuse anymore.

Oh, he even said it in this thread.

[MaryJoLisa]

Yup! I framed him in my mind like he was new. He's never said he was new. He actually corrected my perception, I quoted him back, and I *still* missed that he stated clearly that he's not new to the game. So I need to rethink Redemption.

[MaryJoLisa]

UNVOTE:

Sorry to mess up your VC, @Vorkuta.

[MaryJoLisa]

nor for the game state.

I disagree- penguin and I TR him as a result of his "flailing" (semantically incorrect but appropriate)

Do you still see him as flailing?

I don't and now that I understand he's no newbie, I feel no need to hold back on a D1 lynch.

VOTE: Redemption

[MaryJoLisa]

I don't feel objective about schadd because right now I more feel while he is still alive in the game I don't really want to do anything other than lynch him. This is what it means to do a bad faith push and that's why I don't think town does aggressive tunnely memes like that day 1. I don't feel like he actually is thinking about my slot, he is thinking about how he looks pushing my slot.

I guess there's some touchy history with that meme post? I didn't pick up on the nuances of it. I just liked the smileys around Psyche's name.

[MaryJoLisa]

Last time I stuck to my guns lynching a claimed PR was bad news. And I was more sure of it then than now. But let's hear it. Vork, how sure are you he's lying?

VOTE: lil uzi

Who claimed a PR?

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm a

ub

so I'm basically not confirmable, lynch away just get schadd tomorrow.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... sal_Backup

@Otter
Random chance (4/13 PRs so ~30%) <= Certainty <= 66% (random number)

ub? Yeah that went clean over my head.

[MaryJoLisa]

mjl just acts hella scummy as town or smth

Did you mean scum?

[MaryJoLisa]

my full roleclaim is i am a 69 shot potato

I accept this role claim of potato distributor.

And hi, chenn! Good to see you.

[MaryJoLisa]

I mean you're town so

no, no, I meant "smth" is that a typo or do I need to learn a new abbreviation?

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh, you meant something!

omg, I was way overthinking that.

[MaryJoLisa]

If by ""PROTECT"" Redemption you mean argue/deal with the slot then sure, but I call dibs on TR'ing him first. The guy's newb!town who's paranoid of getting lynched D1 again and is clinging to his moonlogic. It's outside his scum!range.

Redemption says that he's not new to this game. Only to this site. Can you describe what we should be expecting from his scum range?

[MaryJoLisa]

I claim unlynchable unkillable serial killer so

Too late. You already claimed potato wielder. You're the potato guy now.

[MaryJoLisa]

Is Chenn an alt?

If Chenn is a rules follower, then he's not an alt (though he may have alts from after he joined). He /in'ed into the newbie queue as a newbie a few months ago.

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: Performer Beetlejuice

Psyche, you seem like you know what you're talking about.

Do me! Analyze me!

I feel neglected.

okay, fine. If your analysis was going to make me glow with pride over my natural psychological normalcy or better yet my own intellectual achievements, then I'd hope you'd be very forthcoming! But if you feel maybe you're not ready to put forth such contributions to my character, I will totally understand an respect that.

The above feel really off to me because they don’t quite match up with the personality assessment of Mary Jo I have in my head.

I think a newer player would not be so overly eager in the first post to be psychologically analyzed by Mr. Personality. I feel like they would be extremely intimidated. It reads to me like she was trying to see if she can have someone town case her for free without putting any effort.

I also feel like town would’ve left it at the second post and not go on about not being analyzed in the last post.

Nah, it was just the chardonnay talking. I get giggly when I've had a glass or two of wine.

[MaryJoLisa]

Nah, it was just the chardonnay talking. I get giggly when I've had a glass or two of wine.

[/quote]

What are you 95 pounds? XD

Nah just kidding. One time, one of my own friends got hammered on a single shot on vodka, fun time.
[/quote]

Two glasses a couple of times a week is an appropriate level of alcohol for me. I usually don't go over that, but when I do, I always regret it the next day with a nasty headache.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL, can you be clear on what your reads irt to otter, Performer, or schadd? I can't get a sense of what your read on any of the three is from your iso

I'll get on it. It won't be until tomorrow, though.

[MaryJoLisa]

What else is fishy: tried engaging Mary earlier and she ignored it, now she replied to pika. S and s there or plain annoying are my theories about that.

To answer whoever asked me - I have a shadd town. I think my computer notes had lucky, pp, and vork town still . Hadn't had a chance to get on the computer so im phone posting atm.

I'm so sorry, did I miss a question from you?

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm so sorry, did I miss a question from you?

I'd like to see a readslist .

I'm working on one. I hope to have it up within 12 hours.

[MaryJoLisa]

I was hoping by now something more significant in this game would gel for me. It just isn't. This is all I got so far.

Zuckerberg => Psyche:

Town – Based more on statements made by Zuckerberg and not contradicted by anything contributed by Psyche.

PenguinPower:

Town – Based on statements made earlier in the game.

Lil Uzi Vert:

Town – I’ve only played one other game with this user, but he seems relaxed and open as he did in his other town game. He did try to engage with me fair and square when I placed a naked vote on him but I got distracted and forgot to respond. Sorry ‘bout that.

schadd_:

Town – I guess genuinely trying to game solve and I think his efforts bear fruit.

Detective Pikachu:

Provisional Town based on PR claim. I was null on him before.

Gamma Emerald => chennisden:

Town – Based on Chennisden seeing Redemption as scum. I’d gotten nothing of value from Gamma Emerald other than his wagon on me was at least from a logical, town-minded position.

LuckyOtter:

Town: There’s a few things here and there that are NAI, and maybe even a few things that seem scummy, but they’re counteracted by enough town things to tip the scales for me. He seems to be asking game-solvey questions.

Performer:

Null to Town. I think this player relies heavily on emotion and gut to make reads and that's not something I really connect well with. Still, at least there's effort.

Vorkuta:

Scum

Null. I like that Vorkuta is pushing Redemption now. I previously felt that Vorkuta was scummy by association with him.

Not_Mafia:

Null.

ChannelDelibird:

Null. This player has not posted since May 24th.

Redemption:

Scum. (Sorry, Redemption! ) I think he manipulated us into cutting him some slack but I no longer believe slack is warranted. I’m leery of the vanishing act and threats to replace out and I’m suspicious that it might just be a carefully constructed scum cover for survival. In hindsight, that meltdown feels like it was just an act.

[MaryJoLisa]

Redemption discussing the DP movie is scummy because it feels like a substitute for actually playing

Everything he does is scummy! I've been sitting here wondering how no one else sees it.

[MaryJoLisa]

Vote count, please!

[MaryJoLisa]

Mary, what from schadd makes you think he is "genuinely trying to game solve"?

Fair and square, his push on you generated a reaction. I think town seeks those reactions to sort people.

[MaryJoLisa]

That’s a weird one.

We're not a very unified group.

The votes have been all over the place this game.

[MaryJoLisa]

@otter, I'll post my Redemption read when I'm at my laptop.

@Psyche, I don't know what the differences are between my town and scum games.

[MaryJoLisa]

Which direction does your reads list go?

[MaryJoLisa]

Look through my past games. I don't see a consistent trend, but I'm looking at it from the inside.

I have it in my head that you're studying psychology. Maybe you mentioned it in the speakeasy or something. Is that right?

[MaryJoLisa]

We'll lynch someone by the end of D1 I'm sure.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'll probably go that way too.

I mean, you know you're scum, and I know you're scum, but I can't effectively convey that to 6 other people to get you lynched. So given the time crunch, I'll probably cave on Pikachu or Chennisden to push a lynch through.

[MaryJoLisa]

* shrugs *

I will not be successful with my Redemption push and I feel bad trying to really dig in and push someone who takes these wagons so personally. A lynch, any lynch is better than no lynch. At least then we get information.

[MaryJoLisa]

* shrugs *

I will not be successful with my Redemption push and I feel bad trying to really dig in and push someone who takes these wagons so personally. A lynch, any lynch is better than no lynch. At least then we get information.

But you're not

really

pushing for him. I asked you for a more complete read and you said you'd provide it, but instead you continue to just say he's scum.

Also, I thought you thought he wasn't actually taking his wagon personally, and that it was just a ploy to come off as newbtown. That's the central point of your case against him. So if you really believed that, you wouldn't care if he reacted negatively to you trying to start another wagon on him, and actually you'd have incentive to try to needle him some more.

VOTE: MaryJoLisa

The ISO with me, Redemption and Vorkuta illustrates my position on Redemption well enough. But as I was re-reading it to make my response to you, I recalled Vorkuta saying it was shitty to lynch a newbie D1 in his second game after he was lynched D1 in his first game. I agreed with that, but then I felt like he was manipulating us when he's saying he's very familiar with how this game works.

He also said certain posts want to make him commit suicide. It's hard to tunnel someone when RL self-harm is on the table. I think he's a good lynch choice, but it can wait for D2 or D3 when he's gotten a better feel for the game and can better defend himself in this new environment.

UNVOTE:

[MaryJoLisa]

No it doesn't illustrate your position well enough. You've focused entirely on his early game play and 'flailing,' which you now say was put on, but you also said this:

Redemption discussing the DP movie is scummy because it feels like a substitute for actually playing

Everything he does is scummy! I've been sitting here wondering how no one else sees it.

This would implicate his later interactions as well as his reads, and I'm not seeing any effort from you to analyse his posts or engage with him to push him on his reads, etc. But you keep asserting that you're making a push to make yourself look active when, looking over your ISO, you're really not doing hardly any scumhunting at all.

Let's say you're right on Red. Who would be his most and least likely scum partners?

I don't really have a strong position in this game, period. I see Redemption as scummy and I saw Vorkuta throwing him some cover. When I figured out that the player is not new at all to this game, I pointed it out and Vorkuta didn't seem phased by my revelation. For that, I thought Vorkuta might have been Redemption's partner.

[MaryJoLisa]

@anyone, legit question, what happens if our mod doesn't come back? Can we call for a backup mod? Should I go scour Arden looking for him?

Also, is that why activity has kinda died down? Or are people just ready to settle on pikachu?

For me it is. We haven't had an official vote count for almost 4 days. It took a long time for Gamma Emerald to be replaced and we're sitting around with the CDB slot who hasn't checked in in 6 days.

[MaryJoLisa]

In terms of Arden, I hope you don't mean Arden area in Sacramento lol.

I used to live and work in that area! Here's a tip: avoid that area at all cost in the summer time.

[MaryJoLisa]

I've already reached out.

Here's my proposal: Let's lynch Chenn.

Why Chenn?

[MaryJoLisa]

Yes I have tips! Don't move there!

If you do, get yourself in walking distance of the light rail or at least only one bus stop away. Sacramento does have a good public transportation system, but waiting for the next train in the middle of summer is miserable.

[MaryJoLisa]

PP what is the likelihood of a universal backup being in this game?

[MaryJoLisa]

That said - using past setups to guess at the current setup isn't necessarily a good thing to do and why are you asking me what the likelihood is?

Because your name is green. I figured you'd be straight with me about stats like that. 1.5% is unlikely.

[MaryJoLisa]

Yes I have tips! Don't move there!

If you do, get yourself in walking distance of the light rail or at least only one bus stop away. Sacramento does have a good public transportation system, but waiting for the next train in the middle of summer is miserable.

But Sacramento County is a good area...better than bay area by miles. I also have access to reliable transportation so I'll plan to get a connect transit card as a backup plan. I'm very good at protecting myself from scorching sun with a cap, long sleeves, sunblock, shade usage, and strong understanding of my skin's limits lol. (I don't need much protection against scorching heat)

I still live in the scorching heat, but nothing was as bad as Sacramento. You're just in there in the valley, baking half the year.

PP what is the likelihood of a universal backup being in this game?

Extremely, EXTREMELY unlikely. and this is coming from someone who is highly protective of prs.

regarding chen, I believe I and others have detailed why he's scum? his mention of those 3 being unlikely town, makes me think those 3 are likelier town.

I'll review Chenn again with a more careful eye. I was dazzled by his willingness to consider Redemption.

On the PRs, that's part of what I don't fully get about these closed setups. As far as I'm concerned, it needs one vanilla townie and the rest of everyone could be some weird power role with obscure modifiers that wouldn't even be anticipated by the game's veterans. And this particular game is called *Abnormal* Normal. Like what's that's mean?

[MaryJoLisa]

I do too! Once Danny Devito joins the game, I'll vote for him.

[MaryJoLisa]

What's NRG?

[MaryJoLisa]

I am part of the NRG so I understand how certain folks review. I have you as not town because of the super fishy claim along with having lucky/schadd/me as scum reads.

I'm warming up to the otter actually. And I'm also part of the NRG and I think that this argument is complete garbage, this seems like an incredibly faked angle shoot from you and easily dismissed.

HOLD UP

you are?! Who are you!? I find this very hard to believe as I don't recall any of our staff having alts.

My expectation is that they'd all have alts if they want to play the game they work so hard to produce.

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh that was a total misquote.

I have alts

This is news to me

That's what I was trying to reply to.

[MaryJoLisa]

I would think it more likely they would work to modify the setup to be conducive to a UB if he wanted one. Been awhile since I reviewed a game though.

Is it safe for me to believe that no one playing this game could have reviewed it, even on an alt? Is that a stated policy with no loopholes for people to jump through?

[MaryJoLisa]

I don't think schadd and redemption are scum together, but schadd/performer/NM seems fine, schadd/performer/MJL seems fine, schadd/performer/CDB seems fine.

Is your only reason for thinking me and Performer are a scum team is because we're both from Sacramento?

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm not from Sacramento.


And as pleasant as mary has been , if nm+mary are a team, I wouldn't be surprised.

But you're headed there. When you have to go to the Arden Fair Mall to pick stuff up for your new apartment, think to yourself "MaryJoLisa was here!" The connection between us is strong.

[MaryJoLisa]

The Miltank thinks I am Danny Devito.

Miltank?

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh! I get it. I think.

Yeah, I get it.

[MaryJoLisa]

Milk tank.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL can I interest you in a Performer vote?

Maybe? I need to sit down and focus on the game instead of rambling my fingers away in casual chat. Why Performer? I thought that interaction was a little WIFOMy.

[MaryJoLisa]

Dinner first. Use brain second.

[MaryJoLisa]

@Mod

I'm trying my hand at keeping a vote count, but I'd like to know if N_M's votes for non-player names count as an unvote or if his vote just stays where it already was.

[MaryJoLisa]

Who reviewed the setup and where are you seeing that? I don't see it in the first post.

Radiantcowbells & mastina.

Can you please show me where it says these two people reviewed this game? Link me.

[MaryJoLisa]

So I'm just suppose to believe that he's giving us the correct reviewers? He's basing his feeling about the possibility of a UB in this game on the history of reviewers who were not disclosed to the rest of the players. I have no access to that information.

[MaryJoLisa]

This is so frustrating.

[MaryJoLisa]

i dont think either of them would push against UB but i wouldnt expect either to suggest it

Agree. I reviewed Mini Normal 1983 with both of them and it was included (mafia aligned).
I don't get Performer's stance there, but I'm not sure it's scummy? I would prefer him to answer my questions.

I don't know if it's scummy or not, but Performer's knowledge of this game seems to boil down to claimed knowledge of the type of game undisclosed reviewers, RC and Mastina, would approve and *reasons he won't go into* as stated in posts 867 and 1009

Performer has had no wagons on him so far and I think we should try this on for size: VOTE: Performer

[MaryJoLisa]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=79344

"chen is scummy for just coming up and, like, voting for this guy"

"oh wait he's scum"

Who are you quoting, though?

[MaryJoLisa]

ok so why is mjl town starting a wagon on someone for doing something she doesn't "know if it's scummy or not" 45 pages into the game and with ~2-3 days to deadline

I think pushing a wagon on someone who is raising my alarm bells is the right thing to do to sort the player.

[MaryJoLisa]

i mean you said in the same post that you don't even know if what he did is scummy
is that supposed to put some sort of pressure on him?

Maybe we'll get a PR claim out of the deal? Seriously, aren't we supposed to not talk about this? Isn't that kind of defeating the point?

[MaryJoLisa]

Maybe we'll get a PR claim out of the deal? Seriously, aren't we supposed to not talk about this? Isn't that kind of defeating the point?

Why do you want a PR claim out of it?

I'd like to know about the UB and understand how Performer knows so confidently why one can't be in the game. That information was not presented to us and is supposedly undeterminable from the setup. So I'm suggesting that Performer knows something we don't know.

[MaryJoLisa]

Performer has already stated his opinion is based on the reviewers. Rolefishing is scummy.

So you're saying to me that Performer isn't setting up some kind of counter claim avenue or something? Cause that's what it looks like to me. He's hinted in two posts that he can't say why he's sure about Pika's claim, and if he was town, he'd leave that part unsaid. He's not protecting a real PR. He's laying tracks down and seeding doubt so he can later say he left us crumbs.

[MaryJoLisa]

I cant say anything more about the claim but I dont buy it.

His read list of putting me, schadd and you as his highest scumreads, is also too bizarre.

Psyches wall posting is confusing to understand and that makes me less trusting of it. Hard to even know his stances on people, which makes me unwilling to add him to my town block.

@pikachu I DONT BELIEVE YOUR CLAIM EITHER,

but I'm not going to go into why today .

Anyway, I think I've made myself clear enough.

Now all of a sudden you say you're a part of our team, that schadd knows your alt, and you're keeping a tight lip on you're alt in the nrg ? If anything that sequence of events make me more suspicious.

[MaryJoLisa]

Where's our VC? I don't trust my count, especially seeing as I don't know how to count NM's "contributions" to the voting pool.

[MaryJoLisa]

Did I do this right?

Spoiler: MJL's Very Unofficial Vote Count

Redemption: (0)
Psyche: (0)
Performer: (2) Detective Pikachu, MaryJoLisa
Not_Mafia: (0)

Detective Pikachu: (4)*: ChannelDelibird, Not_Mafia, Redemption, schadd_

ChannelDelibird: (0)
Chennisden: (3) PenguinPower, Performer, chennisden
LuckyOtter: (0)
MaryJoLisa: (1) LuckyOtter
Vorkuta: (0)
Lil Uzi Vert: (0)
PenguinPower: (0)
schadd_: (1) Vorkuta

Not Voting: Psyche, Lil Uzi Vert

*Detective Pikachu’s vote count is dependent on the Mod’s judgement seeing as Not_Mafia’s vote for Danny Devito could be seen as no vote movement, or it could be seen as an unvote.

[MaryJoLisa]

Who the hell is Gibberish?

[MaryJoLisa]

My vote is on Performer right now.

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh. Hi, nomnom.

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: Chennisden

Sorry, buddy.

[MaryJoLisa]

I hammered?

[MaryJoLisa]

I didn't hammer. I hate hammering. VC said one person was on you and PP didn't call L1.

[MaryJoLisa]

btw mjl it is fine to hammer on m a f i a s c u m . n e t

As opposed to where?

[MaryJoLisa]

For 1 - MJL has provided no answer to a question I think it pretty important.

I'm out getting pizza.

Chenn was from my count nowhere near danger with my vote. Thought Nomnom might want the push support.

As per usual, I read the room wrong.

[MaryJoLisa]

Doesn't answer my question.

You had him as town. What's changed, and why vote him right after nom and I did?

I wanted to see if Nom had something. They said they'd already been following the game from the start and rather aggressively declared Chenn was scum.

Chenn was safe, so I figured to let Nom do their thing.

[MaryJoLisa]

Well, to be fair, I perceive Nom to just be a more aggressive, pushy person, so that's where I was coming from.

[MaryJoLisa]

VOTE: Performer

[MaryJoLisa]

WAIT

Nomnomnom is in the game??

Ought to be town :ppp

HI!

It's so cool how you're brand new to the forum but know so many people and can identify the "higher ups." Very cool.

[MaryJoLisa]

Spoiler:

PinguFlamethrower

Tortured Soul

Seven Circles

Chompskys

Pet Rock

Gibberish

Satanist

Epicar

Bon Jovi

Easty

TingTing

Danny Devito

Not_Mafia

[/spoiler]

I don't even know the words/phrases "Epicar," "Seven Circles," "Chompskys," or "Easty."

PinguFlamethrower is Vorkuta?

TingTing is definitely me because my username comes from that band's song, "that's not my name."

[MaryJoLisa]

I don't believe there are any other good choices that are going to get lynched before EOD

We're being stonewalled/corralled and I don't even think it's by scum tbh

You do realize that you are contributing to the gamestate I just complained about...right?

Okay, but when I tried moving my vote around to lend support to Nomnom to help him do his thing, you didn't much like that either.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL what's your read on nomnom? You had CDB as null right?

I don't even remember CDB.

Meh. I really don't know.

[MaryJoLisa]

MJL what's your read on nomnom? You had CDB as null right?

I don't even remember CDB.

Meh. I really don't know.

You had CDB listed as null and you've been online. Do you think that nomnomnom therefore should be scumreading you since you haven't really been asking her questions or engaging her during the weekend?

I'm usually online. I'm actually fixing to log off earlier than I usually do, though. I'm not feeling 100% today.

I'm not scumreading Nomnom, per say. I tend not to like her approach in general but I haven't determined whether that's scummy.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm usually online. I'm actually fixing to log off earlier than I usually do, though. I'm not feeling 100% today.

I just used "fixin'" in a written sentence.

[MaryJoLisa]

We're in the middle of a real-time interaction and Vork and MJL just popped in.

I'm Mary Poppins!

(I have not been drinking)

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm usually online. I'm actually fixing to log off earlier than I usually do, though. I'm not feeling 100% today.

I'm not scumreading Nomnom, per say. I tend not to like her approach in general but I haven't determined whether that's scummy.

Well I hope you feel better. When you've gotten some sleep I'd like to hear what you like about her approach. If you think I'm wrong here I'd like to know what you see that I'm missing

I hammered my finger today and it's swollen up quite a bit. I thought I didn't break it but the knuckle is starting to look pretty bad. I'm heading to bed.

[MaryJoLisa]

A performer vote is atrocious here, and taking a slot that's irrational up on his logic just seems bad, especially when the guy had a read that the UB was bullshit earlier. Something's not right here.

My Performer vote has a reason behind it. It's not atrocious. There was this whole thing where Pikachu claimed some unlikely PR and Performer declared outright that he didn’t believe the claim. He seemed surprised that Pika would choose such an audacious role to claim, like for all intents and purposes, this role was a near impossible. I asked him why and he cited that he had knowledge of the setup’s reviewers (that was not published to the player base) and that the reviewers wouldn’t put such a role in the game. In his posts 867 and 1009, he details that he has *reasons* for thinking this way that he's not willing to share. Penguin Power and Shadd_ did not seem to feel that having a UB in the game was impossible and they felt the reviewers would allow it if it was GIF’s design and if it was balanced.

It seems like someone claiming a powerful town role should be kept in the game and the people wanting to take him out would be scum. Of course scum want to take out a town universal backup. Why would they not?

It also seems to me like if UB was such an extraordinarily rare and powerful role, Detective Pikachu would not fake that as scum. Wouldn’t scum!DP choose something more likely? Pikachu claims to be a part of the setup review group, so I think he'd be capable of selecting a more believable role if he was faking it.

Performer is not a particularly active player and sometimes I find that scum put in minimal effort and just let town run themselves around in circles so we kill each other. Performer specifically went AWOL when I started calling out his reasoning for voting for Detective Pikachu. To me, that reinforces my belief that Performer is scum who is trying to take out a town PR. If Performer flips green, then that’s another story.

[MaryJoLisa]

I want a flip

I also want a flip. We have been in this phase for over two weeks now.

[MaryJoLisa]

Why would I move to hammer Detective Pikachu? Am I missing some key detail? Can someone make a case other than "I have secret insider knowledge that I can't tell you about right now," so I can understand why I should vote for a claimed PR?

[MaryJoLisa]

she kept up the interaction about Sacramento,

also for clarity, I DO enjoy that you were helpful , mary!

It's just that when you brought in the "you'll think of me when you go shopping for your apt," that seemed like it was a super weird fluff post that I didn't think town would've made

I was just trying to be friendly.

[MaryJoLisa]

Oh yeah, and speaking of NM's "reads list," is CDB's avatar by any chance a picture of Bon Jovi? I don't think so, but they both have roughy a similar face shape(?), both with a cleft chin, but their eyebrows are different.

Or did we figure out who Bon Jovi is?

[MaryJoLisa]

All this talk about how everyone else has so much more knowledge of the setup makes me feel very out of my element.

[MaryJoLisa]

Also I don't know if this was said already but psyche needs to be vigged if he does not die.

I am so grateful that there's a vig in every normal I play! Woah!!11!

I hope those aren't ongoing normal games you're referring to.

[MaryJoLisa]

That's gross.

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm on the Performer wagon, but when I tested the waters with a Chenn vote, you demanded that I account for my actions.

I thought no-lynch was severely scum-sided. Or at least that's what I was taught. Are you saying otherwise?

[MaryJoLisa]

I'm on the Performer wagon, but when I tested the waters with a Chenn vote, you demanded that I account for my actions.

I thought no-lynch was severely scum-sided. Or at least that's what I was taught. Are you saying otherwise?

Right. Because you had him as a town read.

Your explanation was underwhelming and didn't come across at all as you are willing to lynch:

Chenn was safe, so I figured to let Nom do their thing.

Just because I have someone as a town read doesn't mean that I need to dig my heels in the sand. I try not to tunnel people, so that means I have to keep an open mind.

Besides, I never have this shit solved D1.

No wait! There was this one time! Oh, that was a good one. (This is not like that, though)

[MaryJoLisa]

compared to someone like gustavo or mary (nothing personal) or psyche.

Who is gustavo?

[MaryJoLisa]

Pikachu, you're not going to survive the day. I hate hammering. It gives me anxiety. *For real, it gives me anxiety.* Can you please go ahead and hammer yourself if you're scum?

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay, I'm going to do it. Let me check through the thread. I think all the necessary attributes are in place.

Intent has been given, Pikachu logged in and acknowledged the thread, everyone thinks his claim is bogus.

*squares shoulders*

[MaryJoLisa]

Votes are at 6 (check)
Intent was given (check)
Pika had time to acknowledge the intent (check)
Lots of people really think this claim is bogus (check)

VOTE: Detective Pikachu

[MaryJoLisa]

NOBODY gets to freak out at me if this flip is green.

[MaryJoLisa]

The dancing around the hammer is gross.

Just hammer.

Especially you since you said dancing around it is gross.

[MaryJoLisa]

Some people actually do!

[MaryJoLisa]

What is wig? Like wigging out?

[MaryJoLisa]

One other question. I keep seeing this in about every game I play and I was hoping I'd eventually pin it down because of context but that isn't happening.

WTF does "spew" mean?

[MaryJoLisa]

I was joking about the self hammering.

Where else was that wagon going other than Pika?

[MaryJoLisa]

Yes. I hate doing it, though.

[MaryJoLisa]

There was enough evidence to hammer. Enough people who understand how these games are constructed weren't buying his UB claim. PenguinPower said there's like a 1.4% chance of a UB being in the game.

There's a point where I have to defer to other people's logic. I'm really sorry if he flips green, though.

[MaryJoLisa]

keep in mind this doesn't map to a 1.4% chance of dp being town - you'd have to come up with an estimate for how often he would claim it as scum (say, 2%) and conclude that the probability it comes from scum is (2%) / (2% + 1.4%) = 60% ish. like 2-shot fruit vendor has never occurred in a normal game but you wouldn't just lynch the slot automatically if somebody claimed it

He was asked to clarify his PR claim and he did not.

[MaryJoLisa]

There was enough evidence to hammer. Enough people who understand how these games are constructed weren't buying his UB claim. PenguinPower said there's like a 1.4% chance of a UB being in the game.

I did not.

Based on historical records 1.5% of the Mini Normal games since 1401 had a Town Universal Backup or Town Universal Backup + some other role/modifier.

That said - using past setups to guess at the current setup isn't necessarily a good thing to do and why are you asking me what the likelihood is?

I gave you a percentage of past games and explicitly said using past games to guess the current setup was necessarily a good thing to do.

I understood that even if I didn't enunciate it that way. I understand that a game designer selects roles deliberately to craft a specific experience; they do not draw randomly from a bank. I took it to mean that this is not a likely role at all.

Look, I evaluated the conditions, I felt like this was a good shot, all the hammering conditions were met, so I pulled the trigger. That's it. If I fucked up, I'll eat it next day phase if I live that long

[MaryJoLisa]

Wut?

[MaryJoLisa]

Took me a second. I get it now.

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay?

[MaryJoLisa]

Okay?

Yeah?

That's it?

I don't know what yet.

[MaryJoLisa]

I don't find it funny.

[MaryJoLisa]

This is a weird game.

[MaryJoLisa]

What is PGO?

[MaryJoLisa]

This new meme role that just got legalized
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _Gun_Owner

Basically it shots everything that targets it at night

Oh, okay, I recall that role. There was a game somewhere in signups featuring that one.

[MaryJoLisa]

why schadd
why did you have to use that spoiler tag
what am i gonna do now

It just says "pgo is not a normal role"

[MaryJoLisa]

It would help greatly with VCA purposes and wagon associations.
I'll take a conf!town after 2 dead PRs today please and thank you

Seriously just claim 1-shot and say you're useless now
We won't blame you (too much)

No! That sounds very foolish. Why would we want vig to claim?

[MaryJoLisa]

Whatever. You guys know what you're doing here, and I don't.

[MaryJoLisa]

Is it because I didn't know what PGO was?

[MaryJoLisa]

Thx for explaining, Vorkuta.

[MaryJoLisa]

With that said, dead PT won't be released due to request.

We had a deadPT that I could've been shouting in this entire time??

Yeah, I didn't know we had a dead PT. I assumed I'd have been invited if there was one.

I'd be fine with the mafia PT being opened. It's a thrilling read. I'm sure everyone will feel enlightened about the game after reading it.

[MaryJoLisa]

Fun fact: There was a mafia PT this game!

[MaryJoLisa]

This was a confusing game.

[MaryJoLisa]

PinguFlamethrower

Tortured Soul

Seven Circles

Chompskys

Pet Rock

Gibberish

Satanist

Epicar

Bon Jovi

Easty

TingTing

Detective Pikachu

Not_Mafia

He announced the entire scum team, and no one believed him.

[MaryJoLisa]

Why is the dead thread being kept closed? I thought that's normally a thread with enough traffic that keeping it locked is a moot point.

Was it exclusive, invite only to the cool kids?

[MaryJoLisa]

it looks right now that I have the key.

[MaryJoLisa]

id really like for the review thread for this game to be released and for several people to turn on location so i can have a chat

What do you mean "turn on location?" Is this site collecting data other than IP?

[MaryJoLisa]

id really like for the review thread for this game to be released and for several people to turn on location so i can have a chat

What do you mean "turn on location?" Is this site collecting data other than IP?

MS knows your blood type

That's impressive. I don't even know my blood type.

[MaryJoLisa]

Nope! We never spoke about the game except for a few posts N1 where I told N_M he could do whatever he wanted. There are a few posts N0 where I was asking about what it means to be a mafia fruit vendor vs. a town fruit vendor, and then nothing.

[MaryJoLisa]

For all intents and purposes, there was no scum PT this game.

[MaryJoLisa]

I assume the masons didn't have day chat either?

[MaryJoLisa]

I didn't even know going into the game that we didn't have day chat. I was perplexed when suddenly I couldn't post there.