Role Call I (Game Over)

[Bingle]

Yo. Mobile for a bit.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Against

Please just make something happen faster. Maria literally joined and ended a game before we finished our first day because this is going so slow.

Sorry, but the person who made the proposal we just rejected has been V/LA since I’ve joined. I wanna hear him out.

[Bingle]

And in what world is letting pisskop have the UB a good decision?

Spoiler: Iconeum's proposal
1-shot Gladiator: CheekyTeeky
Inactive: Creature
Day 5 Innocent Child: Nero Cain
Inventor: apthet
Day 3 King: Bingle
Macho: Lil Uzi Vert
Miller: momo
Odd-Night Motion Detector: Gamma Emerald
Neighbour: popsofctown
Neighbour: Vecna
Timid: Hidden Happiness
Night 1 Universal Backup: pisskop
Vanilla: Iconeum
Compulsive Quitter: AP

Wat?

Can you tell me why you changed the lynch choice you shopped out from Cheeky to AP when you were SR'ing both of them and the person you trusted enough to shop out the list to was SR-ing one of them?

Can you wax poetic about your reads as you whisper sweet nothings into my ear holes?

Can you convince me not to want you dead?

[Bingle]

official proposal

1-shot Gladiator: CheekyTeeky
Inactive: momo
Day 5 Innocent Child: Nero Cain
Inventor: apthet
Day 3 King: Jingle
Macho: Lil Uzi Vert
Miller: Creature
Odd-Night Motion Detector: Gamma Emerald
Neighbour: popsofctown
Neighbour: Vecna
Timid: Hidden Happiness
Night 1 Universal Backup: pisskop
Vanilla: AP
Compulsive Quitter: Iconeum

I really like the cheeky gladiator even though I kind of sr her. Id rather give it to an SR I really want to be town and isnt SRed for bad play so much as anti-town or mysterious play.

And I feel like if cheeks is town its not a wasted role, and if scum we'll get some decent info whether or not she wins it.

Fucking plagiarist bastard, stealing the nice Jingle fellow's ideas.

:grumble grumble grumble:

[Bingle]

:thorface:

I suppose that's an answer to one of the things. Now the other three, if you don't mind.

[Bingle]

PK can't be town. He's a thief. A hooligan. A marauder!

[Bingle]

Yeah, okay, I'm really sad I waited 3 days now.

VOTE: For

[Bingle]

I want to hear from Ico, I think, about why he specifically wanted AP to be the lynch. The whole back and forth between him and LUV feels off.

Yeah. Right around here, when I said I wanted to engage with you over things, and then waited three days for this.

[Bingle]

FWIW, actual AP meta:

ime AP tends to refuge in audacity as scum. Reading him is very much like reading FL, in that you look at what he wants to achieve and not how he goes about achieving it. Grain of salt, the vast majority of our interactions are modding, so it's untested, but that's my 50 cents.

[Bingle]

Why werent you so inquisitive when icon got put on the chopping block?

Because he's unwilling to engage, and I'm the one who put him there in the first place?

I specifically laid out what I found objectionable and his answers were complaining about how people were letting AP slide, AtE about how "maybe I can help by being lynched", and assertions without reasons (I strongly believe AP is a better lynch than CT doesn't tell me why AP is a better lynch than CT).

He specifically refused the attempt to engage over it. I've brought up a few times how it seems really strange to me that Ico was perfectly happy to shop out the proposal to LUV, and then when LUV gave him a proposal to make the only change was that he switched the lynch target from one of his suspects to a different one of his suspects, with no reasoning as to why.

Since then the pisskop thing has definitely not helped any.

[Bingle]

You seemed to want a lot of insurrance for the A50 lynch

What do you mean by this, btw?

[Bingle]

BP - apthet
Captain - momo
Neighbor - Gamma
Day 3 Post restricted - Bingle
Psychologist - pops
Tracker - Vecna
Revisor -
Chronomage -
Doublevoter -
Treestump -
Lynch -
Thoughts from role list.

[Bingle]

PEdit: No gladiating ever. The purpose of gladiator is to prove you have it to solve balance concerns. We know you have it.

[Bingle]

Oh, pk's a neighbor now, he should swap with Vecna.

[Bingle]

PK proposed the roles and is universal back up.

I proposed the roles, pk sheeped it.

[Bingle]

Give Bingle tree stump if we all end up town reading him.

WTF?

[Bingle]

Additionally. very odd that i was immediately fingered for the proposal, since it was literally Jingle's from a page or two before mine.

And you know, all the people who almost immediately supported it.


Its not a good look, Cheeks and momo, to fingerbang me when there's so many other places to look. it looks like faux-townrage.

^This.

[Bingle]

Maybe we should make cheeks use her gladiator today?

Other then making sure they get lynched this time idk why we'd do this, but considering that's the result I'd want anyways..

So without thinking about it too hard is there any reason not to do something like this?

Night 2 Bulletproof:
Captain:
Chronomage:
Doublevoter:
Neighbour #3:

Gamma Emerald

Day 3 Post Restricted:
Psychologist:

pisskop

Revisor:
Night 3 Compulsive Role Caller:
Even-Night Tracker:

popsofctown

Treestump:
Compulsive Quitter:

We could put all three of the investigative roles into the Neighbour PT for secret results sharing, which I guess isn't as useless when they're outted but there's still value to being able to hide results until someone accidentally contradicts them. Another useful possibility is putting one as the Night 3 Compulsive Role Caller so three people can discuss the next day's roles in advance

and get half the proposal arguing overwith.

- Shadoweh

+1

[Bingle]

momo can't be a captain, his gimp includes day actions

That's the point. We give it to him and he can't use it, so no one is the captain and we don't have to worry about the clearly scum utility role that is dangerous as fuck.

[Bingle]

tbh I would rather we just manually decide the kills and throw the rest of the names in random.org

I would be 100% down for deciding Compulsive Quitter and Treestump normally (maj vote) and then building proposals around that, actually.

[Bingle]

chrono is also negative utility but momo can't be both

?

Chrono is a pseudo protective?

It gives us a town treestump for a day if it's successful. It doesn't prevent investigations if all the investigatives are neighbors.

[Bingle]

Edit: uhm guys i think you don't understand how the inactive thing works "For the rest of the game, proposals that give you a Day or Night action are invalid."

FUCK. Why does no one tell me these things when I make the mistake in the first place?

[Bingle]

jingle gets hood.

I get PR, btw, because I intend to immediately break the restriction twice and invalidate my D3 role distribution monopoly.

[Bingle]

jingle gets hood.

I get PR, btw, because I intend to immediately break the restriction twice and invalidate my D3 role distribution monopoly.

Wait then no one would have a proposal

I'm pretty sure the game just freezes forever.

@mod:If I as Day 3 King lose my proposal do we continue the day proposing as normal with everyone else having one proposal, or does the day just end, or does something else happen? I assume that given the specific punishments, breaking the post restriction intentionally is not considered breaking the rules.

[Bingle]

PK is my strongest townread, apthet p much guaranteed gets BP because I think that was the strongest town role yesterday.

[Bingle]

Which means apthet doesn't claim anything until tomorrow, btw.

[Bingle]

VoteCount 2.1

Lynch:

Creature: pops
LUV: LUV

Treestump:

AP: pops, Creature
Jingle: LUV

Let's use Hurt for Treestump and vote for lynch and work backwards from there.

[Bingle]

I didn’t consider there being no way for any of us to propose tomorrow if he’s dead. I was just focused on limiting the options for the night kill. He can still draft up proposals and considering we had named him King, we would be more inclined to sheep him.

The proposal is actually pretty much the opposite of what it should be, tbh.

If we're NOT universally townreading me today I should be stumped.

As it is, stumping is another chance at hitting scum and I'm not giving up a lynch with the return of "I can be used as a mechanics guru" for the rest of the game.

[Bingle]

I think there are good reasons for me having it.

We are deciding, on day 2, who to make lynchproof on day 4. That's kind of a concern, with my role I wouldn't be lynched day 4 anyway.

I think the role is important to keep from scum, and will be useful, but I don't think it will make me a big NK target

I'm down with this.

[Bingle]

Oversoul>Jingle>Bingle

Fuck you, Bingle is the greatest.

[Bingle]

Oh, wait.

That's a replacement progression, carry on.

[Bingle]

Okay, last bit of mech spec for a bit then we play real mafia:

Notes dump.

I will die on this mountaintop.

BP - apthet
Neighbor - Gamma
Psychologist - Pops
Tracker - PK
Role Caller - Dunn

Pending mod conf that I can weasel out of my power with the PR, I'm also going to insist on that.

Passives remaining:

Doublevoter
Maybe Post Restricted if I'm super wrong on how that works.

Actives Remaining

Revisor: Neutral utility, use it early every day and it's not a threat.
Chronomage: Protective, goes to a light townread.
Captain: If used, scumclaim? I guess I don't care if we just agree that whoever gets it doesn't use it.

[Bingle]

UGHHHHHHHHHHHH MORE MECH TALK

Nah, we can just play mafia now. We have two lynches, one with hurts that keeps talking forever and one with votes who shuts the fuck up and goes into a corner to pout.

[Bingle]

Pisskop, HH, who do you guys think are scum?

[Bingle]

I'm p sure if you can't propose that the 'scum decides all the roles' kicks in so maybe don't do that -shadoweh

I'm waiting on mod confirmation. If I'm being dumb and it doesn't just let me invalidate my role we can use it to make someone voteless.

[Bingle]

Oh. Well I'm not gonna be PR then.

[Bingle]

Gosh! I should create a gimmick account for AP!!!!!!!!!! AP's too serious for this game still!

[Bingle]

[quote="In post 2520, Bingle"]

VoteCount 2.2

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (2): Creature, Jingle
Creature (1): pops

Treestump:

AP (2): Creature, pops,
Jingle (1): LUV

Someone explain a momo townread to me.

[Bingle]

I don't understand why we would want the king to purposely break a post restriction and not be able to propose, by the way, am I missing something?

We don't anymore. I assumed it basically made me vanilla and let the day proceed normally to do so, but it actually just lets scum pick all of the roles. The mod clarified.

Yeah, wish that would have been clarified yesterday, when I brought up using inactive to eat dangerous powers.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.3

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (2): Creature, Jingle
Creature (1): pops
momo (1?): pisskop?

Treestump:

AP (2): Creature, pops,
Jingle (1): LUV

[Bingle]

I don't really see a difference between momo/AP and momo/creature as paired lynches. They're both unlikely to be S/S, but I could see either as S/T.

[Bingle]

why can't momo and AP both be scum?

I don't see AP murderbonering this hard for a buddy.

[Bingle]

I just realized we can hard confirm CT if we want by using the tracker.

Not sure that it's worth invalidating the tracker though.

[Bingle]

I see that post now
It is pretty unlikely but not as impossible as Creature/momo

Yeah, I'm saying I think both of those are unlikely to net two scum, so I kind of want to either lynch one of Creature/AP or lynch momo, and then have the other lynch be someone who is scummy outside of that whole mess, because if we hit scum with the lynch then it doesn't help to have a not partners read on a dead player, which I think is the gist of your statement in the first place.

[Bingle]

Pisskop, HH, who do you guys think are scum?

cheeks
critter
momo
gamma?
nero?

Talk to me about Gamma. I don't see a reason to go into Nero/Cheeky atm.

[Bingle]

AP, what was your reasoning on LUV town? I feel like you probably addressed it and I missed it, but I wanna hear the thought process.

[Bingle]

I just realized we can hard confirm CT if we want by using the tracker.

Not sure that it's worth invalidating the tracker though.

Rolestop though

Yeah, and if they rolestop CT to stop the tracker the FN has to go through.

My only concern is that if CT targets a townread, they're likely to die. If CT targets antitown, they can false dichotomy or claim rolestop.

I think the risk of leaving it unleashed is > the reward here though, because tracker investigation has a chance of netting scum where FN doesn't.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.4

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (4): Creature, Jingle, CT, HH
Creature (1): pops
momo (1?): pisskop?

Treestump:

AP (2): Creature, pops
Jingle (1): LUV
Creature (1): HH

Votes/Hurt Tags make this a lot easier for me to keep track of, just saying.

[Bingle]

Yeah no point in tracking me.

Either I'm scum and I lie about my target which you find out by giving me an op role next phase or lynching me.
Or I'm town and either successfully gain a conf town who can corroborate or FN fails to reveal scum.
If scum shoot me then we waste both my shot and the tracker which is el terrible.
I am not a good scum player I will be found out one way or another so yeah.

?

As it stands, if CT gives FN to rolestopped player, she's pretty much autolynched.
If CT gives FN to scum, they can fake being the rolestopped player and she's pretty much autolynched.

If we track CT to someone who claims not to have received something, then necessarily one of the two is lying scum. (CT is a visitor because scum or the target is lying about having received the Friendly notification).
If the track on CT fails, we know that anyone who claims to not have a result from CT is a hard 1v1.

The two potential issues are Scum CT targeting a partner who lies to corroborate or CT's target dying. Both of which are 'solved' by leashing her onto the BP. Scum could use the rolestop to prevent CT's action from going through, but that means that apthet's invention and the psychologist are necessarily successful.



Still, I think the potential for a tracker to catch scum is better than jumping through all of these hoops.

[Bingle]

We TOLD THE SCUM BEFOREHAND to ROLESTOP THE BP, so they won't get the FN message.

And the inventor and stronger investigation than FN are free to act, as well as the tracker being told that CT didn't go nowhere.

But yeah, in hindsight the tradeoff probably isn't worth it, because tracker is > FN. It was a tangent thought that I brought up without realizing it would create this much noise, and we should definitely just move on.

Who would you lynch/stump?

[Bingle]

@cheeky

This is a good point, but... I think I'm going to leave the claim there. I think it's efficient for town energy to move on from discussing her as a Quitter target now. Seems like there's a decent chance of that getting proposed, which would probably lead to me claiming anyway. And if scum wants to use the nightkill on someone that no one felt confident in, I'm quite okay with that. (Feel free to yell at me if this is bad. )

[Bingle]

suck it, pops, i beat you to it.

[Bingle]

aight, going to bed now.

[Bingle]

Huh, I was planning to go by the Normal ruling but apparently there isn't one.

Uh... yeah there is.

From the tracker wiki page: “If a Tracker is somehow blocked from their action (by Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, Rolestopper, Ascetic, or Commuter), they should receive a "No Result" pm, rather than a "did not see anything" pm.”

TBC, if you’re resolving it differently I have no issue with that, but it is a deviation from normal guidelines.

Oh shit, nvm I’m being dumb.

Huh. Didn't even notice I was on the wrong account. That doesn't happen often.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.5

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (4): Creature, Jingle, CT, HH
Creature (1): pops
momo (1?): pisskop?

Treestump:

AP (2): Creature, pops
Creature (2): HH, CT

Jingle (1): LUV

[Bingle]

I don't think this player list has an "Ellibereth", theoretically maybe deliberately stumping a player like that would be optimal if there was one.

We're not discussing policy stumping, tho. We're discussing stumping someone who is likely to remain active and give reads. Like, we 100% shoot for scum. Between the two players eliminated, the one who should be stumped is the one more likely to continue helping town after their death.

[Bingle]

VOTE: against
When asked why you scumread me you give me psychologist instead? You just don't have any plausible reads progression this game

Why vote against? Is there a specific problem with the list or are you just anti AP right now?

[Bingle]

Could we get everyone who's not voting to voting? On the lynch/stump, not the proposal. That'd be swell.

[Bingle]

The reason your scum is because of what I outlined Day 1 Luv. To be honest I haven't read too much of today but considering my partner is now on bored with getting you lynched I can only assume your today hasn't been that good either. I can read it if you really want but I think I've been clear on my opinion already.

He wanted to treestump me if I became a universal tr and give bp to a scummy player to "narrow the nk pool", mostly, as far as today goes.

Yesterday I still think there was something wonky going on with the Ico/LUV interactions and I now know it didn't come from Ico.

Pops, why are Ico/CT S/T?

[Bingle]

I didn’t consider there being no way for any of us to propose tomorrow if he’s dead. I was just focused on limiting the options for the night kill. He can still draft up proposals and considering we had named him King, we would be more inclined to sheep him.

On stumping me.

[Bingle]

wrt the BP, he wanted to give it to a scum read, and then refused to give it to NC slot (now Dunn) on the grounds that he wasn't town and didn't have a night action, and then said he thought it was a permanent BP. Which... All sorts of fucked up. I don't think he's explained that progression at all.

[Bingle]

Sure. You can have paperback writer, no one noms shit for that anyway because players don't ever read the flavor.

[Bingle]

I don't remember saying this. I wouldn't support or oppose this relationship. For one I don't remember whether ct voted Iconeum.

I meant LUV/CT.

[Bingle]

Aight. I'll wait until you have time to case it.

[Bingle]

Who would you lynch, LUV?

[Bingle]

Why does the inventor get the bp and not the day 3 king by the way?

Originally I suggested it because I thought keeping the inventions from disappearing was important, but I've been reconsidering actually.

I'm lowkey worried that CT got hero if she's scum with apthet. Could someone towncase apthet for me?

[Bingle]

VOTE: Against

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.6

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (3): Creature, CT, HH
Creature (2): pops, Jingle
momo (1?): pisskop?

Treestump:

AP (3): Creature, pops, Jingle
Creature (2): HH, CT
Jingle (1): LUV

Not Voting For Either (6): apthet, Dunnstral, momo, AP, Gamma, pisskop?

[Bingle]

HH, what do you think about pops' thoughts on delaying solving LUV til tomorrow on the basis he might be cleared by Cheeky scumflip?

I'm not really okay with Creature complaining about mechanics being the focus and then not trying to form reads when pushed to do so, and the whole treestump convo with Gamma feels pretty LAMIST.

I'm lowkey paranoia-ing on apthet/Cheeky, but I guess that can wait til tomorrow still. Definitely give out bg tonight if town, apthet.

I'm really not sure how to grok the whole momo/AP fight, and the fact that momo has been gone basically since I showed up in the thread doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy at all.

So far I feel pretty confident in pops/pk/HH/Gamma town. Probably pk>Gamma>HH>pops, but that's a shades of grey ordering.

That leaves me with a scum pool of apthet/CT/LUV/Creature/momo/AP.

I don't see AP scum as super likely with most of those, so

HEAL: AP

HURT: momo

[Bingle]

You need to not target apthet cause Jingle has raised a valid concern. You can target literally anyone else.

Don't target a dead player, or the mod, or anyone who isn't playing.

[Bingle]

I do. But I feel like that's obvious. You should never cross confirm if at all possible.

CT picking anyone who isn't apthet and succeeding confirms CT's alignment AND apthet's claim of invention.

I just don't think speccing on who is a bad FN target is a good idea rn, just in case CT is town and it's helpful to scum.

[Bingle]

YoY

I don't understand your hip young lingo.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.7

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (3): Creature, CT, HH
momo (2?): pisskop?, pops
Creature (1): Jingle

Treestump:

AP (3): Creature, pops,
Creature (2): HH, CT
Jingle (1): LUV
momo (1): Jingle

Not Voting For Either (6): apthet, Dunnstral, momo, AP, Gamma, pisskop?

[Bingle]

AP talked a lot about it yesterday, but tbh it’s mostly that he’s solidly in my Poe pool and I don’t see any motion that indicates that will change.

I know some people said he was obvtown D1, but I don’t think anyone has elaborated on why.

[Bingle]

jingle gets hood.

I get PR, btw, because I intend to immediately break the restriction twice and invalidate my D3 role distribution monopoly.

I really don't see town saying this. This seems like scum eager to make a politically favorable decision instead of doing what I expect town to do which is solicit proposal input from their townreads.

?

No. It is objectively better to have the phase of everyone reacting to and voting on proposals, as that is the primary means of taking stances. D3 King is and always has been a negative utility role. I was excited by the chance to functionally delete a negative utility role, just like I was when I thought we could dump bad actives into the inactive player to delete them.

I'm lowkey paranoia-ing on apthet/Cheeky, but I guess that can wait til tomorrow still. Definitely give out bg tonight if town, apthet.

This feels a little omgussy but I do want to call out the townslip with the whole Vecna business, so might back off here.
Although, he did kind of awkwardly ignore when this was called out:

Edit: uh Vecna is dead, lo... did you mean pisskop since he's the other neighbour now

Go to post 2488, then scroll up to the previous post. I'd already answered the question, so there was nothing to respond to.

I believe apthet's avatar is a block rendering of a tucan, fwiw.

[Bingle]

@LUV/apthet:

Who do you want to lynch/stump?

[Bingle]

You can't guarentee town can coordinate around Revisor because by LYLO there's no way people will agree who "The Town" are. Either way do you see any harm in giving it to someone whose alignment is about to be confirmed?

You can mitigate revisor.

The first proposal each day has revisor as the lynch and they revise that proposal, then you play the rest of the day as normal.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.8

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (3): Creature, CT, HH
Creature (2): Jingle, pops
momo (1?): pisskop?

Treestump:

AP (2): Creature, pops,
Creature (2): HH, CT
Jingle (1): LUV
momo (1): Jingle

Not Voting For Either (6): apthet, Dunnstral, momo, AP, Gamma, pisskop?

MOAR VOATS PLS

[Bingle]

I'd be down to switch my votes, btw.

Is the townmomo case I asked for literally: he hyperposted d1?

[Bingle]

This game is slow. I don't think it's you guys. I think it has to do with the roles list discussion taking too long.

I am down to accept anything anyone proposes me to be.

+1

I have literally solved this by making it about who to lynch first, and half of the plist is ignoring it.

[Bingle]

momo got banned for telling his partner to go inactive sitewide and also lie about RL too. Visiting the site less often and playing some extra fallout instead without asking his partners to do the same wouldn't violate site rules the same way, but since he has told a partner that lurking is a good strategy as scum like obviously he believes lurking is a good strategy as scum.

From my experience it is not.

It isn't a good strategy and not one I would employ. I don't want to discuss the rationale behind that suggestion, considering it got me banned, other than in this post but basically, he was hyperactive site wide and a family emergency would have been trusted. It's not good to lurk without a reason like that one as scum. It was a dick move and not one I would ever repeat.

pops you were reading me as town. don't let other people sway your reads.

Yeah, okay.

Who would you lynch/stump?

[Bingle]

I'm downvoting LUV lynch, not creature lynch

@Bingle
He pocketed d1 is that a legitimate towncase :shiftyeyes:

What posts? Like, assume you’re right. Assume momo is town. Help me see what you see. I’ll be Whoopi Goldberg, you be Patrick Swayze and together we can teach this whole thread pottery.

[Bingle]

Is there a reason creature isn't voting against this?

He says he’s fine being stumped. But there’s not a good reason afaict.

[Bingle]

Did you see the argument for leaving LUV on the basis that CT might resolve him?

[Bingle]

Anyway why do you not fight being stumped? I would think you'd hate it

I think I'll get to be a town leader or something.

However, on the other side, my games as publicly confirmed town have been atrocious.

[Bingle]

VOTE: against
When asked why you scumread me you give me psychologist instead? You just don't have any plausible reads progression this game

Why vote against? Is there a specific problem with the list or are you just anti AP right now?

My D1 review last night concluded LUV and CT can't be scum together.

Lynching a red LUV and clearing CT while she double clears herself with fn would be very inefficient. Not lynching LUV and treating him as town when cheeky claims to have FN'd the deaf player is efficient.

The immediate aftermath in her iso is also relevant but I’m mobile.

[Bingle]

^bad strat.

First, you’re one of the more readable people based on your dayplay.
Second, if you’re scum you just rolestop yourself and don’t worry about it, meaning we don’t actually catch you. And it makes sense you’d be rolestopped as town BECAUSE of the potential for you to become an IC, so it’s not even a pseudo guilty.

If a tracker/psychiatrist claimed a result on you it would be a decent target, but aiming them remains counter productive.

[Bingle]

^

[Bingle]

@LUV/apthet:

Who do you want to lynch/stump?

Cheeky, Creature, and HH.

If you had to give one name for each?

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.9

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (3): Creature, CT, HH
Creature (3): Jingle, pops, LUV
momo (2): Dunnstral, pk

Treestump:

Creature (3): HH, CT, LUV
AP (2): Creature, pops,
LUV (2): Dunnstral, pk
momo (1): Jingle

Not Voting For Either (4): apthet, momo, AP, Gamma

[Bingle]

Rolestop (Night, Factional). Choose a player. All other actions targeting that player, except for Eliminate, will fail. Unlike most night actions, you may target this at yourself if you wish.

@pops

[Bingle]

BP: Jingle
Captain: AP
Chronomage: Apthet
DoubleVoter: CT
Neighbor: Gamma
D3 PR: LUV
Psychologist: pops
Revisor: HH
N3 Compulsive Role Caller: Dunnstral
Even Night Tracker: pisskop
Treestump: Creature
Quitter: Momo

Thoughts?

[Bingle]

Compulsive Rolecaller on Dunn makes too much sense not to be the play.

It's D4 unlynchable, and he's unlynchable until D5.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.10

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (4): Creature, CT, HH, Gamma
Creature (3): Jingle, pops, LUV
momo (3): Dunnstral, pk, AP

Treestump:

Creature (4): HH, CT, LUV, Gamma
LUV (3): Dunnstral, pk, AP
AP (2): Creature, pops,
momo (1): Jingle

Not Voting For Either (2): apthet, momo

[Bingle]

Still think Gamma should be Chronomage.

I could go for that.

[Bingle]

momo is a fine stump.

Something is very offputting to me about this game state.
Scumreads are too consensus, maybe. Feels like that means scum is very comfortable right now.

It’s weird, yeah. I think a big part of it is the pseudo partial clears. Like, we’re ignoring Dunn slot and cheeky slot and to a lesser extent luv slot because it’ll be time to lynch them later. It feels unnatural to be making decisions based on the idea that we’ll get more information eventually, even if it is the right move.

I’ll edit my proposal and update the vc in the morning, then I’ll propose to extend deadline.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.11

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

LUV (5): Creature, CT, HH, Gamma, AP
Creature (3): Jingle, pops, LUV
momo (2): Dunnstral, pk,

Treestump:

Creature (4): HH, CT, LUV, Gamma
momo (3): Jingle, AP, apthet,
LUV (2): Dunnstral, pk,
AP (2): Creature, pops,

Not Voting For Either (1): momo

[Bingle]

Official Proposal:

BP: Bingle
Captain: AP
Chronomage: Gamma
DoubleVoter: Dunnstral
Neighbor: Apthet
D3 PR: LUV
Psychologist: pops
Revisor: HH
N3 Compulsive Role Caller: CT
Even Night Tracker: pisskop
Treestump: Momo
Quitter: Creature



Revisions:

Switched Gamma to Chronomage per pops' suggestion. This has the added benefit of putting the three most likely nightkills all in the hood where they can share their reads over the night phase/leave a last will of sorts.
Switched CT to CRC, because outside of getting confirmed as town, CT is unlikely to NOT be my kill tomorrow. If she's conftown, she's probably the best one to trust with CRC. If she's not, CRC dies with her.
Switched momo and creat. Doesn't match the Vote count, but :shrugs:. We can afford the wasted proposal if you downvote me.

[Bingle]

D4 unlynchable.

Cause if she's scum, I'm shooting her before she'd use it.

[Bingle]

Nope. I was actually super proud when I noticed we could do that this morning, before I'd even had my coffee.

[Bingle]

You can put the same person into the Neighbourhood twice. It's redundant but not invalid.

If we put the same person in the same neighborhood twice, are they required to double post all of their posts in that neighborhood? I vote yes.

[Bingle]

There's a risk we don't continue to get offered neighbor roles and that after an NK the neighborhood dwindles to 1 person which is not a neighborhood, but it's a weak power overall so I think it's better to optimize it and risk breaking rather than focus on preserving it.

The reason I wanted to add apthet to the neighborhood is because I tr both you and pk and if apthet is town there's a decent chance of her being nk'd.

My thought is she puts her night action choice into the neighborhood as close as possible to night end and you guys can confirm which invention went where in case she dies, meaning scum can't just hide that they got hero and potentially fuck us or bodyguard and remove all utility from the role.

If we keep getting neighbors, I think giving neighbor to bg is probably a good choice, overall, so they can do the same thing.

I'm also really not concerned with scum listening in on the neighborhood tbh. Like, as just neighbors, your information/conclusions should probably just be shared in the main thread. If we give powerroles to the neighborhood, (and vice versa) they can choose not to share target over night if they think the neighborhood is compromised or even better share target right before daystart.

I'm actually pretty interested in why you are worried about someone joining the neighborhood in the first place, and am going to insist we don't have the neighborhood double up today, because there's potentially a hilarious town coup to be had here if you and pisskop are scum together and the neighborhood would out that. It'd even make up for how garbagey my reads are if that's the case.

[Bingle]

why can't i be psychologist?

You're inactive. If someone proposes you as psychologist it's an invalid proposal.

[Bingle]

I would prefer mafia shoot a partner. Just think of the glory if you win anyway. Do it.

[Bingle]

Sure, bring up Bingle's one loss.

[Bingle]

Still lost the game.

A loss is a loss is a loss, and I don't care enough about my record to hide behind excuses.

[Bingle]

Pops how does your town play differ from your scum play btw

I tend to submit fewer nightkills as town, if that helps.

[Bingle]

I assume that’s a stump vote, yeah? I’ll update when I’m no longer mobile.

[Bingle]

Jingle will probably agree to some sort of democratic solution to leashing the proposal. Even if he is scum, he is very concerned with appearing politic.

Explicitly, I will demand everyone make their arguments, make an unofficial proposal and force you all to pick it apart for mistakes before submitting it.

[Bingle]

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VoteCount 2.12

Threshhold is 7.

Lynch:

Creature (6): Jingle, pops, LUV, momo, AP, Creature,
LUV (4): Creature, CT, HH, Gamma,
momo (2): Dunnstral, pk,
AP (1): apthet

Treestump:

momo (5): Jingle, AP, LUV, momo, Creature,
Creature (3): HH, CT, Gamma
LUV (2): Dunnstral, pk,
AP (2): pops, apthet

Not Voting For Either (0):

[Bingle]

I think AP is scumholes

Tell me more?

[Bingle]

Why are you scumreading him. I'm waffling hard there and I want your opinion.

Trust me, I'm well aware of his various holes.

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

Tacstrat game series.

[Bingle]

I haven't played the new one yet, but I think so. Fire Emblem Warriors is an action game in the same universe tho, so make sure you get the right one if you're interested.

[Bingle]

Yup. It's terrible.

[Bingle]

Linkle is bae tho
and it sounds kind of like Bingle
Bingle make your avatar Linkle, starting from ten minutes ago

If you do it I will let you have the d3 king role

Nah, FG chose my avatar, its from Arthur.

[Bingle]

Lies. You're a fake fake god.

[Bingle]

[Bingle]

Strongly think that’s indicative of scum Cheeky but whatever.

I think it's NAI. She's been gone sitewide AFAIK. Like, hasn't even logged in gone.

[Bingle]

I'm ok w/ the mod replacing Cheeky with a bot that fires the Friendly Neighbor result at random and it's actually a visit and we lynch the bot.

I think the only fair way to resolve the CT replacement is that if she's scum this slot get's modkilled and I get to replace in to CT's slot to finally get that sweet, sweet scum role PM.

[Bingle]

Actually, that makes me wonder how this game works if a modkill happens. Like, if mod action changes the number of slots, how does cfj make the decision on which roles are still included in the list? Does the list just have an extra role? Is cfj making this shit up as he goes along? Did cfj even consider the potential for modkills in his setup to begin with? Let us go to consult Mr. Owl.

[Bingle]

hot take, gamma is making my scumdar go loopy this game

How is that a take
A take is an opinion, what you said is a statement

Hot take: a take is a scene or sequence of sound or vision photographed or recorded continuously at one time.

[Bingle]

That... Is a surprisingly poignant bit of setup spec from my bullshit joke about modkills.

/tips hat

[Bingle]

I have thoughts to improve the setup, but now isn't the time I don't think.

[Bingle]

More it allows them to share their opinions and turns it into a dialogue where having the conversation now both ensures we don't have complete information and excludes him.

Also, something something we should be scumhunting or something.

Speaking of which:

[Bingle]

Strongly think that’s indicative of scum Cheeky but whatever.

Cheeky was IC in GAYDANCE: THE MOVIE OF THE GAME OF THE MUSICAL and was pretty much identical to her activity here, so I doubt that the disappearing act is AI. I would agree that in a vacuum CT seems like she's more likely to be town when hyperposting, though.

[Bingle]

sigh, why can't it just be the movie based on the screenplay?

the screenplay of the game of the musical of the thirteenth century war over the 18th century stageplay?

[Bingle]

I think pops didn't want me to be bp?

But I decided there's really only one more invention that's worth a damn, so keeping me alive seems like the best use of it FMPOV.

[Bingle]

From pops' iso, she wants to swap AP and Dunn, although I don't know why, she doesn't want to stump momo, and she doesn't want me to BP. All of which seem pretty :/ to me as nitpicks, tbh.

[Bingle]

VOTE: againt

I think critter is a better stump, momo seems a bit townier now.

There's dunn's reasons.

[Bingle]

Sorry, pisskops.

[Bingle]

momo is a fine stump.

Something is very offputting to me about this game state.
Scumreads are too consensus, maybe. Feels like that means scum is very comfortable right now.

VOTE: AP
VOTE: Against

popsofctown just a question: does it matter to you that I don't townread you?

apthet doesn't seem to have reasons, other than unease over the gamestate.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Against

..Wait, I thought you said I was special to you pops.. what's going on here??

HH doesn't like the proposal because pops is a bigamist, apparently. \o/

[Bingle]

Guys before you reject this proposal, does anyone have an actual idea for a proposal that they can (unofficially) post in thread?

I'm down to try

Go for it. We don't lose anything by you trying, and it's at least something to talk about that might advance the game.

[Bingle]

2 reasons, pops wanted it and it seemed like a low risk person to give it to considering he's already one of the investigatives, so I didn't really care about giving it to him.

[Bingle]

I'm still in favor, but I also want to have apthet in there.

[Bingle]

There's a risk we don't continue to get offered neighbor roles and that after an NK the neighborhood dwindles to 1 person which is not a neighborhood, but it's a weak power overall so I think it's better to optimize it and risk breaking rather than focus on preserving it.

The reason I wanted to add apthet to the neighborhood is because I tr both you and pk and if apthet is town there's a decent chance of her being nk'd.

My thought is she puts her night action choice into the neighborhood as close as possible to night end and you guys can confirm which invention went where in case she dies, meaning scum can't just hide that they got hero and potentially fuck us or bodyguard and remove all utility from the role.

If we keep getting neighbors, I think giving neighbor to bg is probably a good choice, overall, so they can do the same thing.

I'm also really not concerned with scum listening in on the neighborhood tbh. Like, as just neighbors, your information/conclusions should probably just be shared in the main thread. If we give powerroles to the neighborhood, (and vice versa) they can choose not to share target over night if they think the neighborhood is compromised or even better share target right before daystart.

I'm actually pretty interested in why you are worried about someone joining the neighborhood in the first place, and am going to insist we don't have the neighborhood double up today, because there's potentially a hilarious town coup to be had here if you and pisskop are scum together and the neighborhood would out that. It'd even make up for how garbagey my reads are if that's the case.

[Bingle]

Hm. Interesting.

Any investigations go through?

[Bingle]

Unofficial

Ascetic Probably dunn
Deadline Setter Bingle
Neighbor Gamma
Parity Cop apthet
Strongman Pisskop
Vengenillizer HH

Thoughts?

[Bingle]

lynch AP, I deleted the last two lines just to make sure that cfj didn't think it was official.

[Bingle]

I thought we wanted super investihood 9000?

[Bingle]

Vengenillizer HH

y?

I don't see them sticking around forever and I'm low key concerned about more super scum utility powers. I don't see anything that I'd be heartbroken about town losing access to, except maybe the IC on Dunn though.

[Bingle]

we do

so why put the new investigate on someone who is not in the hood and also is already an investigative?

I think apthet makes way more sense.

[Bingle]

I received nussink.

[Bingle]

Alright, no use in delaying the inevitable:

Official Proposal:

Deflector: Bingle
Strong Willed Strongman: LUV
Neighbor: Popsofctown
Parity Cop: Gamma Emerald
Deadline Setter: Dunnstral
Ascetic: pisskop
Venge Vanillaiser: HH
Visitor: apthet
Quitter: AP

Turns out, I'm scum and it's mechanically impossible for town to win.

Suck it, nerds.

[Bingle]

Who are your teammates?

Jingle and Vic Sage.

[Bingle]

There is no 'team' in 'get out of my car'.

[Bingle]

Every proposal that passed this entire game was mine, btw, and I didn't make a single one that didn't pass.

[Bingle]

I can't tell you how glad I am that I finally got to roll scum. I'd like to thank the academy, and Tom Cruise, and mostly myself.

[Bingle]

Please tell me who your teammates are.

CHIEF AMONG OUR WEAPONS ARE SURPRISE!

[Bingle]

If cfj even opens the thread for the morning, tbh.

I don't think it's actually possible for me to lose from here.

Spoiler: I plan to lynch apthet tomorrow.

[Bingle]

Nope. No mafia here. This is the Bingle variety hour, where Bingle juggles, dances, parties and murders Austin Powers with Frickin sharks with Fricken lazer beams on their heads.

[Bingle]

Bingle is 0 for 2!

Wait a minute, 1 for 3!

[Bingle]

at least one of those is scum pk. My guess is gamma. He's got a really sneaky looking avatar.

[Bingle]

Kinda sad AP isn't here to party with me.

Also kinda sad the dead thread isn't here to be fucking pissed.

[Bingle]

lol

One of bingle/AP is scum?

At least. With those crazy cats it could be both of them.

[Bingle]

If we weren't going to cheese this up and autowin pk was the nk, btw.

[Bingle]

obvtown that I'd given the investigation that matters to.

[Bingle]

also I think you and apthet were the only people who actually suspected me?

[Bingle]

And no offense, apthet, but shading you with CT was super easy, so your opinions would have been easy to ignore today.

[Bingle]

Effort is actually slightly scum indicative for me. I WAY prefer playing scum.

[Bingle]

And the scum PT shows that I knew you sr'd me on Friday, so...

[Bingle]

It's not that effort makes me scum so much as I'm much less likely to be disengaged with a scum PT.

[Bingle]

WDYM? For games I'm playing in?

[Bingle]

Eh. I doubt I'd keep up with it, tbh.

[Bingle]

:shrug: I legitimately didn't read anything before I replaced in. I just kept pushing people to explain things to me so I wouldn't have to.

[Bingle]

Lol

Yeah, it's pretty great.

[Bingle]

God, we were never gonna lose this game.

[Bingle]

This is legal?

A personal thoughts PT for the game? 100% legal. I've provided them before a bunch of times for players.

An apprentice speccing your thoughts? As long as the mod is aware and allows it, I can't see why it wouldn't be.

[Bingle]

If people listened to me like ever this game would have gone better.

I listened to you a lot.

[Bingle]

In fairness, yesterday was only LYLO because you guys let me have the ability to pick all of the powers we wanted.

It should have been a way more fair game.

[Bingle]

God no. The optimal way to play is to lynch the d3 king on d2 100% of the time.

[Bingle]

We can discuss whether the sweep is deserved in the post, but yeah, there were roles that just couldn’t be trusted to anyone and roles where the correct use was just “never use this”. It’s frustrating, but that happens with a lot of role madness setups.

[Bingle]

Ah, but right now I’m pretty sure I still win even if I fucked up royally. If I point out the work that went into getting us here and then cfj fucks us on D4, well...

Better safe than sorry.

[Bingle]

There's like this weird edge case where scum lol-ignore the revisor and lose

But it wouldn't be a gratifying way to win really so calling it is o.k.

Nah. The trick was that with the double voter we could reject every proposal for the rest of the game. If a proposal is rejected, scum submits the list.

The role that could have caused issues was funnily enough, the chronomage but our night action was to rolestop and kill them tonight and then lynch apthet since she couldn’t possibly be the hero.

HH is scum.

[Bingle]

If this game is ever re-run, I'd abolish the current proposal mechanism, make a normal lynch mechanism and probably attribute roles somewhat like Civilization with its priorities.

My suggestion would be snake draft at night for role assignments, actually.

[Bingle]

Oh, btw, Dunn won us the game.

I know I lorded the shit out of the win, but Dunn caught the double voter gives us majority bit.

And I probably wouldn’t even have been willing to go for it if I didn’t think HH could get to endgame by themselves without us.

[Bingle]

HH is scum

Oh Dunnstral claimed LUV as scum during d3.

I guess he was screwing with me?

Nah it was insurance.

[Bingle]

Not everyone needs a PR a couple of PRs would just be fine

Not every role was a PR.

[Bingle]

like Bingle can be all proud and gloaty that he passed his proposal day 1 and all that the main thing is that whatever proposal passed felt like it should have happened sooner.

Most of the being gloaty was posturing to set us up in case I fucked things up, tbh.

D1 was p much all oversoul. Not sure why, but I repped into a universal townread slot and I don't think I would've been able to get away with any of this without that. The stuff about how I was responsible for everything was all to prevent you guys from figuring out my partners. I know at least MariaR is among the best scum on site and being humble about my role might have tipped that hand a little.

I'm not so much an asshole that I think this win was all on me. I am so much an asshole that I will present that face to the thread while there's still a chance to lose in the hopes it minimizes that chance. See specifically: my comment that LUV should be pretty mislynchable.

[Bingle]

Sorry I fear killed you, Vec. I assumed you'd catch onto me faster than everyone else.

[Bingle]

Okay, I've got a bit of time:

I think that Creature's complaint is valid. If you make Compulsive Quitter a role that can show up, but still keep the lynching every day mechanic, you can have that dichotomy of arguing for lynch that most people are going to be active in and also have the fine tuning proposals discussion that's going to be a magnet to people like me and Vecna.

Keeping the lynch and the assignment separate also lets town try to get rid of potentially troublesome roles like, say, doublevoter and D3 King if they can't trust anyone enough to keep them. Or they can use it to get rid of things like Macho.

I also think Timid and things along those lines are interesting, and would love to see more of them.

You seem to have a handle on the deadlines issue, although I would say that a maximum day length would probably be worth including too. Like, even with a lack of proposals stacking extensions, you can still end up with an uber long D1. Forcing town to reach their consensus early with a maximum day length (I'd say 2 weeks is usually more than adequate, but the actual deadline is dealer's choice, I suppose) means scum can actually play to the wincon of keeping town disorganized.

Building to the stronger town roles doesn't seem like something you need to fix, tbh, but I do think you might need to buff town a bit overall if you keep the factional rolestop. We were pretty unconcerned about night actions for pretty much the whole game because of it, when normally things like FN and motion detector can be pretty damn troublesome.

[Bingle]

I've waffled on that over the years.

I don't replace out because a game is unfun, personally, because I made the commitment to the game and I'm unwilling to compromise on that.

With that said, having seen some of the toxic shitshows (Team Mafia cough cough) which can occur when somebody should replace out and doesn't or the mods should have stepped in and forced people to cool off and didn't, I'm of the opinion that if someone thinks they need to replace, you let them and leave it at that. It takes a different kind of courage to admit that maybe, just maybe, NOT being in the fight is better than winning it.

[Bingle]

I'll be frank:

Please don't, btw. I prefer when you're AP.