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Post #15 (isolation #1) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:05 am
Postby Shoshin »
Town, thankfully. I cannot overstate how relieved I was when I saw my PM, RC. I really don't think I could have handled being scum in this group & setup.
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Post #27 (isolation #6) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:01 am
Postby Shoshin »
I really don't enjoy starting games with you this way, yet you keep doing it for no reason. My alignment will be obvious before this day's over, so this is entirely unnecessary.
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Post #30 (isolation #7) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:03 am
Postby Shoshin »
And scum you knows voting me would annoy me, so as far as I'm concerned, this is a scum tell.
I didn't ask Zulfy to vote Flubb. I suggested that he could accomplish his purported goals by doing so. It's sort of a reaction test, how do you not realize this?
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Post #66 (isolation #16) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:23 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 59, RadiantCowbells wrote:Shoshin as town would be arguing with the content of my posts (which by the way I went out of my way to express in a way that she would be able to meaningfully answer if she was town) rather than just handwaving everything as 'yeah it's scum RC' without actually arguing the point.
RC's just inventing narratives about me that aren't true.
After 762, it's unlikely that town RC votes me as quickly as he did because of the interactions we had there. It's also unlikely that town RC misrepresents my posts (e.g. saying that I was supporting Flubb wagon after I voted RC when I was just testing Zulfy's reaction). Town RC never misrepresents me, whereas it's the bread-and-butter of scum RC. Scum RC comes into the game knowing I'm his biggest threat & wants to take me out immediately. Town RC wants to leave me alone & give me some space to scumhunt. Town RC doesn't want me to blow up emotionally because it's mean & unnecessary to sort me (and we've talked about this outside the game before). Scum RC wants me to blow up emotionally, and then tries to push my mislynch because I'm actively trying not to let him manipulate me.
It's not if you know our history together. He votes me at the start of games a lot, trying to test me so that he can read me. I recently had a conversation with him about this and told him he didn't need to do this because he could read me in other ways, and that it was hurting me emotionally, and he agreed. He said he votes me at the start because it speeds up the process of reading me, but he agreed it was unnecessary and he wouldn't do it. Yet here he is doing it. So I was just intentionally trying to shut it down by not reacting and calling it out as a boring pattern to keep repeating. He should know better than to push my lynch at this point.
Dunno it's really easy for you as town to just say I'm trying to eliminate you because I'm scared of you. And I think if you were town actually caught in the crossfire you'd give whatever response immediately came to you rather than sitting and thinking about it. You're buying time.
This is a massive misrepresentation of reality. I hate how effective you are at doing this as scum.
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Post #83 (isolation #25) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:33 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 70, RadiantCowbells wrote:And you telling someone to vote Flubber to speed up the game is absolutely you signalling to everyone in the game that it was a pressure vote from you.
This is a scum claim from RC. He's not trying to read me in good faith.
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Post #92 (isolation #27) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:38 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 24, Shoshin wrote:You could speed it up by voting Flubb instead of me.
This isn't me telling Zulfy to vote Flubb. It's me testing the internal logic of Zulfy's behavior.
RC takes this post & portrays it as me supporting a wagon on Flubb. He then uses this characterization of my post to argue that I'm scum. This is precisely how scum RC plays. He distorts the meaning of my posts, and then uses that to push my lynch.
Town RC in almost all cases would realize that this post was a test of Zulfy's behavior, or at least ask me about it, before doubling down on voting me. The fact he's still pushing this misrep is definitive proof he's scum.
When I have time later, I'll bring up meta examples of scum RC doing this to me in multiple games, and examples of how town RC reacts to similar reaction tests from me in other games.
In post 24, Shoshin wrote:You could speed it up by voting Flubb instead of me.
This is close enough that even if you disagree that that's exactly what you were doing you would never make it a hill to die on that that isn't what you were doing if you were arguing in good faith.
It's so annoying to deal with scum you because of posts like this.
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Post #96 (isolation #29) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:41 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 89, RadiantCowbells wrote:And I think it's super obvious from your point of view that refusing to unvote flubbernugget alone is going to bait a negative response from me. In 761 you never placed any extraneous votes because I was asking the lobby not to place extraneous votes. How does town you not expect me to react in at least a similar way to this as town?
I don't believe town you would vote me for doing something you disagree with.
How can you possibly think that's not true when you were my top townread in our last game and I told everyone to lynch you if you didn't conform to my lynch order?
That's not what you said. You said to lynch me if I didn't lynch scum by LYLO. There's a difference.
We have lots of disagreements in our town games together, yet rarely vote me for them. You've usually voted me for things that you agreed with me about in the past.
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Post #102 (isolation #33) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:46 am
Postby Shoshin »
I like to start games by creating wagons, and Flubb was a juicy wagon waiting to happen. I wasn't going to unvote just because RC asked me to. This isn't scummy, and RC acting like it is should be a clear sign that something is off about him.
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Post #131 (isolation #37) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:25 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 123, RadiantCowbells wrote:Notably I thought none of your responses would be what they were but here we are. Though I do know Katy significantly better than I know you.
This feels like you're trying to underplay how well you know me for when I flip town.
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Post #138 (isolation #40) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:29 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 129, RadiantCowbells wrote:I feel like someone should be able to back me up that they've seen scum react to big spats in the same way that Oversoul did, by asking questions that don't directly solve the situation?
I've seen town do it too so I dunno this seems like a bad reason to vote Oversoul.
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Post #140 (isolation #41) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:32 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 123, RadiantCowbells wrote:Oversoul was throwing in questions in a way that was pretty safe and common for scum to do, perpetual gather info mode without taking a meaningful stance. Not lockscum but definitely +scum.
Katyusha simultaneously said that we were SvT (profiteering off of our spat assuming that you are in fact town but also probably bad if you aren't) then told us to stop yelling at each other. Not only that but the stuff that giggles said was about 'reading me correctly' and idk. On a simple level it makes sense as scum trying to have their cake and eat it too by calling us SvT and trying to look Towny for splitting up a TvT but on a deeper level I just don't think that's what Katy would say to me in that situation.
Notably I thought none of your responses would be what they were but here we are. Though I do know Katy significantly better than I know you.
The context in this post seems to refer to knowing Katy better in mafia specifically, not outside of mafia. Like, what's the point of even saying you know Katy better than me if you're not talking about mafia? This feels like you're trying to leave a paper trail to argue you don't know how to read me after you lynch me.
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Post #146 (isolation #43) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:37 am
Postby Shoshin »
Katy's approach to this reminds me of how town GiF approached some interactions in Fire (i.e. saying it was SvT but leaving it alone until later). So I don't really see what's weird about that, RC?
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Post #148 (isolation #44) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:40 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 147, RadiantCowbells wrote:Did you read the post where I said that the 'objective reason' (ie that) wasn't something I actually put a great deal of stock in and was just something I was throwing in to sweeten the pot for people who won't take 'RC reads this as that's as an answer?
I don't understand what you're saying here. Please clarify.
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Post #154 (isolation #45) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:48 am
Postby Shoshin »
I'm still confused by your play, RC. But I'm going to take a break & come back later with a clearer head. I'd hate to mislynch you but I also feel like if you're scum I have to push you today or you will just win. This is a very difficult thing to grapple with.
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Post #181 (isolation #50) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:08 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 162, RadiantCowbells wrote:Why am I obliged to sort you and not the other way around? I just have to move on from all that absolute trash you said about my play
Why am I obliged to play around Katy's way of reading me and not the other way around
Why am I the one who is inevitably going to be held responsible if I lynched you and was wrong when you did the same to me
It's double standards out the ass
Do you not see the problem with you having expectations of something but not giving it in return?
This isn't double standards, RC.
For starters, we're different players. It's a known scum strategy for you to push my lynch ASAP by distorting my meaning to fit your scum narratives. But that isn't what I do as scum, and never have. I just locktown you so that you don't lynch me D1, & then I kill you N1 to not deal with you at LYLO. And I think you would know this.
You're responsible for mislynching me because you've never done it as town, and I don't believe you would, given what you know about me. In contrast, you consistently push my mislynch as scum.
If I were to mislynch you, I think town should hold me responsible. This isn't a double standard.
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Post #196 (isolation #54) » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:16 am
Postby Shoshin »
In post 185, Zulfy wrote:Shoshin what actions must I perform to get you to stop saying anything about or to RC
In post 187, Shoshin wrote:Lynching RC will get me to stop talking to or about RC.
I don't get how you interpret this as me pushing you, RC. It's very clearly just a response to Zulfy, and one that suggests the opposite of lynching you, since presumably Zulfy isn't going to vote you because I tell him to.
It was an echo of the earlier post I made to Zulfy. And this time, it was very clearly not ever going to get Zulfy to vote you because he just said he wasn't ever going to vote you. Like, how are you not reading the context of this?