Newbie 1951 (Day 4)

[emps]

also fark, why do ur reads changed based off of ppls read on u?

what do you guys think of farks reads being reactive to everyone elses reads on them?

I'm not adjusting reads based on words only, rather on actions. I had assumed (and i'm still not entirely convinced) that she was NOT aware her hammer vote was fake, since i genuinely thought speaking after having been lynched was going against the rules. I still think it should not be allowed: if you get lynched, you either prepared your testament in advance (like we used to do in old forum mafias through the [lastwill] command) or you go out silent. For this reason, i changed my mind on Selynee being townish.

Besides, you and Selynee are the only ones i changed my mind about. You said you weren't going to L-1 me and then two posts later you did, lol. More explanations on this on the my answers below.

Nah, not against the rules. Also, if there was a real hammer against town page 6, person would be lynched 90% of the time D2. Not such a great deal for mafia.

Why is Notspam town?

@ Farkran: Can you answer the question at the end of it? That part confused me too (you putting NMSA at 70% town).

I understand you think of me as a newbie, and legitimately so since this is my first game in this forum, and my first mafia game altogether after more than 7 years. I'm not hiding behind the newbie shield though, i am getting tells from people's posts and actions. Most pro-town people at the moment are notmyspam, Menalque, possibly sushi. I also really didn't like epic posts, i'd like to hear more from him - skitter is hiding behind VLA so anything i say about her would be irrelevant at this point.

Nah, not against the rules. Also, if there was a real hammer against town page 6, person would be lynched 90% of the time D2. Not such a great deal for mafia.

Why is Notspam town?

Are you saying anyone hammering town in d1 is going to be lynched d2? How optimistic of you. I like your style though, you really look like town when questioning like that. It's your actions that i am doubting.

@ Farkran: Forgive me if I'm being dense, but are you being sarcastic here?

Yes, i'm being overly sarcastic. Because, at one point during this day, someone WILL hammer a player and chances are it will be on a town vanilla due to sheer odds statistics. How in the world does that mean that whoever hammered him will be lynched in d2? I didn't like that reasoning at all. Someone has to be lynched, that i can agree with, but the way you do it gives tells.

Hammer testing tends town or partner. Why does it make you scumread them?

And emps, I always reread rvs. Some of the more useful associations are there, before scum get the feel of the room and can play into/against it as needed.

That didn't look hammer testing to me. Claiming (or speaking at all) after being lynched is against the rules if i am not mistaken. That looked more like genuine rushy bandwagon.

How do you define hammertesting?

It can’t be a bandwagon because they were already there. So answer the question: why does a second, and purportedly hammer (but not) - vote strike you as scummy?

Also, why is bandwaggoning scummy?

Try to see it from my point of view. If she wasn't aware of fakehammering, it would be a huge bandwagon move. I insist on saying she wasn't aware of it because it didn't made sense to me, since speaking after having lynched is against the rules - that's what i thought. There's even a line about "bah-posting". Could we actually get this mod-clarified? Can you speak after having been hammered or not?

Also, bandwagoning on the early train is one of the scummiest tells to me. That moved Selynee down my list of suspected scum.

The first paragraph is is what I was reacting tp

[emps]

Hey emps do you wanna put farkran at L-1?

no, at least not till everyone has checked in.

Everyone has checked in tho

oh everyone has?

VOTE: farkran

L-1

[emps]

that's the actual thing and I don't see how you misrep that so badly

[teacher]

Fark- sorry for the deluge of questions, but what is your native tongue?

[teacher]

stop wallposting please ty

Oh you’ll love skitters ketchup then

[Farkran]

How do you define bandwagoning? I ask because I disagree - it wouldn’t have been wagonninf if they thought they were elsewhere, it would be hammering. So what do you mean by calling it bandwagonnjng?

Could you actually answer this btw?

In my experience, bandwagoning is the act of voting on someone who already has a reasonable share of votes for the purpose of ending the day quickly with a complete mislynch, or aiming at the least information-giving lynch of a town player (not my case, since i've been talking and addressed to so much). In a 2 mafia VS 7 town setup with a hammer on the 5th, the third vote on someone is already a borderline bandwagon move, the fourth and the hammer are much more scummy though. Melanque was the third vote on me, after which emps immediately jumped on the train despite claiming not to, and Selynee attempted her move which did not make sense in my eyes due to a misunderstanding of the game rules.

With that said, i moved emps and Selynee down in my list of suspects.

Did Selynee know about the fakehammer? Perhaps. Sushi didn't notice it at first. I almost didn't notice it, but i wouldn't have said anything anyways.

The reason i'm suspecting you, teacher, is your behavior behind the words said. You were quick to defend skitter for no reason at all. What does defending the VLA accomplish? Again, is there a rule that forbids being scum while on VLA? I am questioning you, exactly the same way you're questioning me. No offense taken, no offense given.

Again, i didn't even doubt skitter's VLA claim, i just said i couldn't have a reading on her because she isn't here to speak. That was the whole meaning behind the word "hiding". I didn't even vote against her, or ask for her to be modkilled or anything.

[Farkran]

Fark- sorry for the deluge of questions, but what is your native tongue?

I'm from Italy, my native language is Italian.

[Farkran]

that's the actual thing and I don't see how you misrep that so badly

Sorry? Skitter is still VLA, you know - she posted about being VLA, but didn't add anything to the discussion. Would you call that a "check in"?

[teacher]

bandwagoning is the act of voting on someone who already has a reasonable share of votes for the purpose of ending the day quickly with a complete mislynch, or aiming at the least information-giving lynch of a town player (not my case, since i've been talking and addressed to so much). In a 2 mafia VS 7 town setup with a hammer on the 5th, the third vote on someone is already a borderline bandwagon move, the fourth and the hammer are much more scummy though.

I disagree on a theoretical level. Pressure is good. It generates more reactions - both from those being wagonned and those on it. After the game I’ll share some statistics on most likely spot for scum on a D1 townwagon. Hint - it’s least often the 4 slot.

What does defending the VLA accomplish? Again, is there a rule that forbids being scum while on VLA? I am questioning you, exactly the same way you're questioning me. No offense taken, no offense given.

I had taken this as rhetorical.

No there is no rule against it. But an empty slot is 75% town, as your statistics comment on the hammer shows you know. So shading an empty slot is......weird. A lurker, sure. But not someone who is known to be away.

[emps]

that's the actual thing and I don't see how you misrep that so badly

Sorry? Skitter is still VLA, you know - she posted about being VLA, but didn't add anything to the discussion. Would you call that a "check in"?

Did you quote the wrong thing?

[emps]

How do you define bandwagoning? I ask because I disagree - it wouldn’t have been wagonninf if they thought they were elsewhere, it would be hammering. So what do you mean by calling it bandwagonnjng?

Could you actually answer this btw?

In my experience, bandwagoning is the act of voting on someone who already has a reasonable share of votes for the purpose of ending the day quickly with a complete mislynch, or aiming at the least information-giving lynch of a town player (not my case, since i've been talking and addressed to so much). In a 2 mafia VS 7 town setup with a hammer on the 5th, the third vote on someone is already a borderline bandwagon move, the fourth and the hammer are much more scummy though. Melanque was the third vote on me, after which emps immediately jumped on the train despite claiming not to, and Selynee attempted her move which did not make sense in my eyes due to a misunderstanding of the game rules.

With that said, i moved emps and Selynee down in my list of suspects.

Did Selynee know about the fakehammer? Perhaps. Sushi didn't notice it at first. I almost didn't notice it, but i wouldn't have said anything anyways.

The reason i'm suspecting you, teacher, is your behavior behind the words said. You were quick to defend skitter for no reason at all. What does defending the VLA accomplish? Again, is there a rule that forbids being scum while on VLA? I am questioning you, exactly the same way you're questioning me. No offense taken, no offense given.

Again, i didn't even doubt skitter's VLA claim, i just said i couldn't have a reading on her because she isn't here to speak. That was the whole meaning behind the word "hiding". I didn't even vote against her, or ask for her to be modkilled or anything.

Actually, the third is the most sus vote, followed by 4th.

[emps]

stop wallposting please ty

[teacher]

This post is odd though - you’re again doing the same thing with “sprouted a reaction from you only”. I reacted in 6 minutes. Are you suggesting someone else should have weighed in in that time? If not, why say it? (These are not rhetorical questions, I actually want answers)

Finally, you say “this” is one of the main reasons I’m on your suspect list. What is “this”? Defending Skitter in an RVS post?

@Fark - just noting the other two pending questions from before the pageshift.

[EpicCreeper9002]

Votecount 1.3:

Menalque (1) -

teacher, NotMySpamAccount

Farkran (2) -

Seleynee, emps

teacher (1) -

Farkran

NotMySpamAccount (1) -

Menalque

Not voting (3) -

skitter30, Sushi Martyr, EpicCreeper9002

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline is at 9am BST on the 28th August 2019. (expired on 2019-08-28 09:00:00)[/b]

Something is wrong here because Menalque has 1 and 2 votes.


I have no clue how you people can read into things so much - I've barely noticed anything off with anyone. I do think the argument about skitters is getting absolutely nowhere, but that doesn't really help with reads.

Question: What are the rules on modifying quotes? Like, could I cut out the deadline part of the message I quoted since it's not really necessary? Could I take sub-quotes out so a post isn't so long? Could I lie by changing the lynches up?

[Farkran]

This post is odd though - you’re again doing the same thing with “sprouted a reaction from you only”. I reacted in 6 minutes. Are you suggesting someone else should have weighed in in that time? If not, why say it? (These are not rhetorical questions, I actually want answers)

Finally, you say “this” is one of the main reasons I’m on your suspect list. What is “this”? Defending Skitter in an RVS post?

@Fark - just noting the other two pending questions from before the pageshift.

No one should have weighed in, that's my point.

[emps]

that's the actual thing and I don't see how you misrep that so badly

Sorry? Skitter is still VLA, you know - she posted about being VLA, but didn't add anything to the discussion. Would you call that a "check in"?

Did you quote the wrong thing?

[emps]

also, what teacher did to "defend" skitter is completely fair and i wouldve done it if i saw the "hiding behind vla" thing (i didnt until recently cuz i was on mobile earlier)

being vla isnt scummy, and i think teachers reaction is actually townie.

[teacher]

This post is odd though - you’re again doing the same thing with “sprouted a reaction from you only”. I reacted in 6 minutes. Are you suggesting someone else should have weighed in in that time? If not, why say it? (These are not rhetorical questions, I actually want answers)

Finally, you say “this” is one of the main reasons I’m on your suspect list. What is “this”? Defending Skitter in an RVS post?

@Fark - just noting the other two pending questions from before the pageshift.

No one should have weighed in, that's my point.

Again, what is the “this” in your original post?

[teacher]

Question: What are the rules on modifying quotes? Like, could I cut out the deadline part of the message I quoted since it's not really necessary? Could I take sub-quotes out so a post isn't so long? Could I lie by changing the lynches up?

At its core, the rule is to try not to obscure meaning. If I’m responding to part of a post, I only quote that part (as here). If I’m responding to a thread but only want to discuss part of it, I will (if on desktop) delete the irrelevant parts and insert ...snip.... for deletions to let people know it might not be the whole context. On a mobile I’d just quote it all tbh, or just refer to the post number and use my own “” to mark others text. As to lying, you can do it (and you could make up a quote entirely) but that would be a good way to get a quick lynch.

[Farkran]

I never defend anyone but myself unless i have specific and reliable information for doing so. Especially when i am town, but tbh as mafia i'd fake it to the best of my possibilities. Why would i clear anyone else over semantics? I didn't say being vla is scummy. I said defending someone over it is scummy.

[teacher]

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say, like you did in 243, that you “didn’t call her out for anything” and then say, like you have multiple times, that I’m defending her. A defense is only necessary if there is an attack - a “calling out.”

So either you were attacking Skitter (and thus misrepping yourself in 243) or You weren’t attacking, so I am not defending them (and this you’re misrepping my play now).

[Farkran]

I will try to make myself clear to everyone now. I am accusing teacher to be scum because the majority of his posts are about playing gentle towards others while offering meta explanations that are useful outside of the game, but their in-game value is very much questionable. Perhaps that's just the way he likes to roll but it's exactly how i would play if i were in his position and got a scum role.

I might be wrong? Of course. Do i have any other good lead to this day? Just Selynee and emps. The latter also just said he has town readings on teacher, so he's currently my second best candidate for today's lynch.

[Sushi Martyr]

also, what teacher did to "defend" skitter is completely fair and i wouldve done it if i saw the "hiding behind vla" thing (i didnt until recently cuz i was on mobile earlier)

being vla isnt scummy, and

i think teachers reaction is actually townie.

(emphasis mine)

Really? I don't think his reaction was scummy, but I don't think it was townie either. This whole argument about Skitter being on V/LA and everyone's possible reads of her

despite her only having made one post

just feels like NAI semantic squabbling to me.

[emps]

i never stated i townread teacher. i townlean him. im saying, you're calling something that i think is townie scummy. what, in ur opinion, is wrong with selynee?if its the "they didnt seem to know their fakehammer was fake" arguement, let me tell you this, that is complete bullshit.

[Sushi Martyr]

@Farkran: Quick clarification thing, when you say someone's moving down in your suspects list, does that mean you find them more or less suspicious than you did before?