Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Skygazer]

VC 1.09 mod notes: listen to this Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest EspressoPatronum (4): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest NC 39 (4): EspressoPatronum, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, RC most awesomest RC most awesomest (2): RC most awesomest, Alchemist21 Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Spangled (2): RC most awesomest, Hectic Lil Uzi Vert (1): Gamma Emerald Not Voting (6): EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

[Alchemist21]

You’ve asked me exactly one thing and in the very next post Gamma pointed out your question had been answered already.

fair point I guess although you were plenty of capable of expanding on why you didn't have a town read on us and we are close to DL so isn't about time to start sharing your view of the gamestate?

How do I expand on a nullread? I can’t.

[EspressoPatronum]

1: yes
2: I have not read your ISO yet.

In that case, can you please read my ISO first? My answer to your RC questions earlier will essentially be me rehashing what I've already said.

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you

How tho

See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.

I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"

RC said: "[EP has] taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.

I said: RC was playing differently from his usually aggressive town game, which was a method I have seen experienced scum do in some of my recent games.
Proof:

Spoiler:

[...]Second, I'm saying you're behaving differently than the RC I have played with and observed through reading other games.

I also fail to see why you think I'm trying to tilt you by scumreading you + not putting you in my coalition. It's part of the game.

[...]

RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.

i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.

I have no doubt in RC's abilities, but I've seen this method used a few times by experienced players. Nobody is above it.

Both of us were saying that the other was taking a line of play consistent with scum behaviour we had witnessed in recent games.

[EspressoPatronum]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

[EspressoPatronum]

You’ve asked me exactly one thing and in the very next post Gamma pointed out your question had been answered already.

fair point I guess although you were plenty of capable of expanding on why you didn't have a town read on us and we are close to DL so isn't about time to start sharing your view of the gamestate?

How do I expand on a nullread? I can’t.

I think what NC is getting at is that they want you to be more proactive with your reads and/or supplying us with information.

Imo, only weighing in when you're asked questions is a more reactionary and less helpful style compared to proactively engaging with the thread.

More information is better than none, so I'm happy to hear your thoughts on pretty much everything and anything.

[EspressoPatronum]

Spoiler:

VC 1.06 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest EspressoPatronum (3): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Spangled Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest NC 39 (2): NC 39, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, Spangled RC most awesomest (1): RC most awesomest Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Hectic, Gamma Emerald Not Voting (7): RC most awesomest, EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

didn't Espresso put me down as a heal?

I don’t even know if throwing around lynch votes will be useful until the Coalition is decided on since we can’t lynch before the Coalition is decided.

i think it's still good go throw around votes to show who we suspect and intend to lynch after we decide on the coalition, it'll be useful later on as well when we look back at wagons and potential bussing

also we can still pressure scum with votes which is always good

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Hectic do you still believe what you said about applying pressure with your votes? Do you think your LUV vote is still good?

yes and probably not, if he's not currently reading the thread

VOTE: Spangled

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

I'll help jumpstart the information requested above. Can you give us more on your Hectic ping? You said he's been pinging you all game but you pointed to two recent developments. Can you tell us some of the early things Hectic did that pinged you?

[Hectic]

I chose not to post my 1500 word rant.

please do

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

i agreed with nsg's case on Spangled, just forgot to change my vote i guess

i've changed my mind on Spangled again, went through some previous games of his looking for that generic "any reads" question in particular

as an innocent child, couple of times:

Hey, FF, any reads to throw out at the moment?

Hey Gamma, any reads to share?

as mafia roleblocker in a newbie game, 0 times

as vanilla town in a newbie game, once:

viewtopic.php?p=11071856#p11071856

as vanilla town in a newbie game, kind of once:

viewtopic.php?p=11083102#p11083102

as a mafia goon in a newbie game, 0 times

not sure if that was worth it, but the fact he's never thrown the question out as scum does say something, and i did notice while control-Fing through that he's a lot more prone to ask people about their thoughts/reads in his town games over his scum games, though the questions are usually more specific. who knows though, maybe's he replicating what he does in his town games as scum here, and he's overdoing it with that generic question since it is way more prominent here than any of his other town games
i like his responses to nsg's case though anyway

HURT: Gamma
HEAL: Spangled

VOTE: Alchemist

[Hectic]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>Alchemist

i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now

[EspressoPatronum]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>Alchemist

i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now

Thanks for this, Hectic.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Alchemist being on the lowest rung, but I think a scum gutread on him is reasonable given his more reactive style.

Looking forward to hearing more about it tomorrow.

[Alchemist21]

Spoiler:

VC 1.06 Coalitions: Hectic (5): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Hectic, NC 39, RC most awesomest EspressoPatronum (3): EspressoPatronum, Gamma Emerald, Spangled Alchemist21 (3): Alchemist21, EspressoPatronum, RC most awesomest NC 39 (2): NC 39, RC most awesomest Gamma Emerald (2): Gamma Emerald, Spangled RC most awesomest (1): RC most awesomest Clemency (0): Lil Uzi Vert (0): Spangled (0): Lynch: Lil Uzi Vert (2): Hectic, Gamma Emerald Not Voting (7): RC most awesomest, EspressoPatronum, NC 39, Clemency, Lil Uzi Vert, Spangled, Alchemist21 With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-12 18:00:00).

didn't Espresso put me down as a heal?

I don’t even know if throwing around lynch votes will be useful until the Coalition is decided on since we can’t lynch before the Coalition is decided.

i think it's still good go throw around votes to show who we suspect and intend to lynch after we decide on the coalition, it'll be useful later on as well when we look back at wagons and potential bussing

also we can still pressure scum with votes which is always good

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

weakest entrance thus far imo

Hectic do you still believe what you said about applying pressure with your votes? Do you think your LUV vote is still good?

yes and probably not, if he's not currently reading the thread

VOTE: Spangled

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

I'll help jumpstart the information requested above. Can you give us more on your Hectic ping? You said he's been pinging you all game but you pointed to two recent developments. Can you tell us some of the early things Hectic did that pinged you?

It was mainly his tone at first. It sounded like he was constructing his posts to sound good; formal is too strong of a word for what his tone was but it didn’t seem casual and relaxed to me. Looking at his completed Newbie game though it seems that’s just the way they post but I still couldn’t shake the vibe and since he was the one who initially advocated for pressure votes it makes me wonder why we haven’t seen much of him actually doing that.

[Skygazer]

Seeking a replacement for Clemency.

[Alchemist21]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>Alchemist

i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now

Your read on me seems like pure OMGUS to me.

[Alchemist21]

I could probably have a good read on NC 39 if I knew which head made which posts.

[Spangled]

I chose not to post my 1500 word rant.

please do

I have to say you’ve been pinging me this whole game. What makes Spangled a good vote in your eyes? How come you seemingly forgot about voting for anyone else this whole time?

i agreed with nsg's case on Spangled, just forgot to change my vote i guess

i've changed my mind on Spangled again, went through some previous games of his looking for that generic "any reads" question in particular

as an innocent child, couple of times:

Hey, FF, any reads to throw out at the moment?

Hey Gamma, any reads to share?

as mafia roleblocker in a newbie game, 0 times

as vanilla town in a newbie game, once:

viewtopic.php?p=11071856#p11071856

as vanilla town in a newbie game, kind of once:

viewtopic.php?p=11083102#p11083102

as a mafia goon in a newbie game, 0 times

not sure if that was worth it, but the fact he's never thrown the question out as scum does say something, and i did notice while control-Fing through that he's a lot more prone to ask people about their thoughts/reads in his town games over his scum games, though the questions are usually more specific. who knows though, maybe's he replicating what he does in his town games as scum here, and he's overdoing it with that generic question since it is way more prominent here than any of his other town games
i like his responses to nsg's case though anyway

HURT: Gamma
HEAL: Spangled

VOTE: Alchemist

Yeah, I’ve tended to ask more specific questions because there have generally been more specific things to ask

about

; I’ve been asking those generic questions to fairly inactive or reticent players (Clemency and Alchemist come to mind) in an effort to get them to make pretty much any content, or give us assocs.

[Spangled]

Hey Hectic, what's your coalition read on Gamma? If you were to remove him, who would you replace him with?

i think my read is RCMA>Espresso>Spangled>NC 39>Gamma>Clemency/LUV>Alchemist

i know people will question my Alchemist vote, more of a gutread than anything, i'll go looking for actual reasons tomorrow, it's way too late right now

Thanks for this, Hectic.

I'm not sure I'm on board with Alchemist being on the lowest rung, but I think a scum gutread on him is reasonable given his more reactive style.

Looking forward to hearing more about it tomorrow.

If you’re not on board with Alchemist on the lowest rung (that is to say, for the lynch), who are you on board (or most on board) with lynching?

[Spangled]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

CLEARLY.

CLEARLY

.

this is something scum never do.

of course, you have the "almost always" defense setup.

Also, NC 39 feels off to me.

I'm concerned about how they're, like, sliding alongside me
Feels like buddying.

These are just weak accusations that he hasn't backed up at all.

What is the something that ‘scum never do’, sorry?
And I say “almost always” because it is true — sometimes scum put pressure on people; I’m told that that is a very effective way to appear townie, and

win the game

. I tend to find that that is the goal scum aim for, yeah?

I agree that those are fairly weak accusations, but you can’t really back up a read that seems to be completely gut.

[NC 39]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Hello everyone happy day one! I'm completely new to this site, and I think the last time I played mafia was in the 5th grade irl, so I might have a bit of a learning curve...(also have never played minecraft)
let's get the posts rolling~

Indeed!
Some like to do RVS (Random Voting Stage), here on this site, but I’d like to try RQS (Random Question Stage) to kick the game off this time.

So.

AaronFrost

: What TV show are you enjoying at the moment?

Martinkids1

: What is the fabric of the clothes you are wearing right now?

kokorogobrokoro

: Does your name meaning anything in any language, and is there anything we can abbreviate it to?

2 funk 2 punction

: What kind of device are you typing your reply to this from?

eth0s

: What method of transportation do you most enjoy using?

Iconeum

: Do you like the climate of where you live?

Luca Blight

: When did you last consume water?

Draynth

: What movie did you watch most recently?
and

Everyone

: Was there red or green text in your Role PM?

It may be that your intentions are sincere in doing this, but I can't help but dislike the possibility of where this could lead us.

VOTE: Spangled

I do have to ask, though, is this a serious vote or just an RVS vote?
‘Cause if it’s a serious vote, that’s a pretty rubbish reason to scumread someone.
I’m mildly alarmed, eth0s, that you’re townreading Luca Blight with this vote — I’ve seen enough games where town opens with RQS to know that it’s a fairly effective opening to the game that can, in fact, catch scum — not directly, but through the discussion —that all important thing at the beginning of the game — that it provokes.

This is super defensive for early game, and just after a single vote on him.

I don't know why you have it in your mind that town aren't defensive. Could you walk me through the reasoning on this?

Scum orchestra as in trying to feed/force a scumread to people without committing to that scumread yourself

Ohhh. Right. Rather than scum theatre. I see.
All these terms that aren't on the wiki.

I can see Draynth as scum for those bits outlined above, but it's

fairly

minorly scummy, in my opinion; it's early days yet. It is in that area, I guess, where you could put a vote (to produce information, much as Luca said), but not necessarily a lynch (and definitely not on page 3).
Aye, I'll VOTE: Draynth.

L-3, in case anyone cares.

Pedit:
Never mind,

L-2

.

This is most likely scum hopping onto a wagon for nill reason. The way he explains it is very 'walking the line' trying to justify it but not really taking a stance either.

All his ISO reads like that, very 'carefully' worded posts.

VOTE: Spangled

'Twas a pressure vote, fully acknowledged as such later.

Also, are "'carefully' worded posts" different from "carefully worded posts"; why the emphasis on clearly?

Hey Spangled, I haven’t read the game but I do know you were scum in that. My first reaction to post 267 was, basically, Oh God! you are such a newb to actually believe this but then I saw this post. So, who were you saying was doing the “pressure voting” in 150, Luca Blight or you?

@Alchemist, I was feeling nauseous earlier, so this is my first post today. This is Nancy btw, if that helps.

[Spangled]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

[Spangled]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Hello everyone happy day one! I'm completely new to this site, and I think the last time I played mafia was in the 5th grade irl, so I might have a bit of a learning curve...(also have never played minecraft)
let's get the posts rolling~

Indeed!
Some like to do RVS (Random Voting Stage), here on this site, but I’d like to try RQS (Random Question Stage) to kick the game off this time.

So.

AaronFrost

: What TV show are you enjoying at the moment?

Martinkids1

: What is the fabric of the clothes you are wearing right now?

kokorogobrokoro

: Does your name meaning anything in any language, and is there anything we can abbreviate it to?

2 funk 2 punction

: What kind of device are you typing your reply to this from?

eth0s

: What method of transportation do you most enjoy using?

Iconeum

: Do you like the climate of where you live?

Luca Blight

: When did you last consume water?

Draynth

: What movie did you watch most recently?
and

Everyone

: Was there red or green text in your Role PM?

It may be that your intentions are sincere in doing this, but I can't help but dislike the possibility of where this could lead us.

VOTE: Spangled

I do have to ask, though, is this a serious vote or just an RVS vote?
‘Cause if it’s a serious vote, that’s a pretty rubbish reason to scumread someone.
I’m mildly alarmed, eth0s, that you’re townreading Luca Blight with this vote — I’ve seen enough games where town opens with RQS to know that it’s a fairly effective opening to the game that can, in fact, catch scum — not directly, but through the discussion —that all important thing at the beginning of the game — that it provokes.

This is super defensive for early game, and just after a single vote on him.

I don't know why you have it in your mind that town aren't defensive. Could you walk me through the reasoning on this?

Scum orchestra as in trying to feed/force a scumread to people without committing to that scumread yourself

Ohhh. Right. Rather than scum theatre. I see.
All these terms that aren't on the wiki.

I can see Draynth as scum for those bits outlined above, but it's

fairly

minorly scummy, in my opinion; it's early days yet. It is in that area, I guess, where you could put a vote (to produce information, much as Luca said), but not necessarily a lynch (and definitely not on page 3).
Aye, I'll VOTE: Draynth.

L-3, in case anyone cares.

Pedit:
Never mind,

L-2

.

This is most likely scum hopping onto a wagon for nill reason. The way he explains it is very 'walking the line' trying to justify it but not really taking a stance either.

All his ISO reads like that, very 'carefully' worded posts.

VOTE: Spangled

'Twas a pressure vote, fully acknowledged as such later.

Also, are "'carefully' worded posts" different from "carefully worded posts"; why the emphasis on clearly?

Hey Spangled, I haven’t read the game but I do know you were scum in that. My first reaction to post 267 was, basically, Oh God! you are such a newb to actually believe this but then I saw this post. So, who were you saying was doing the “pressure voting” in 150, Luca Blight or you?

Myself, although if I remember correctly I kind of appropriated that terminology from someone else’s post that was between that one you’ve quoted and my earlier vote, kind of thinking ‘ah, here’s a good explanation for what I was doing, although that

kind

of wasn’t what I was doing — although if it had been coming from a town perspective that’s what it would have been’... if any of that makes sense

[Spangled]

Woah some stuff happened there. Sorry about that; I’m messing up formatting as never before this game.

[NC 39]

not a big fan of Gamma randomly trying to apply pressure to me.

I don’t really like this... applying pressure is almost always an action town takes...
Or was it how he applied pressure that you didn’t like?

CLEARLY.

CLEARLY

.

this is something scum never do.

of course, you have the "almost always" defense setup.

Also, NC 39 feels off to me.

I'm concerned about how they're, like, sliding alongside me
Feels like buddying.

These are just weak accusations that he hasn't backed up at all.

Okay. You don't think you responding to a question directed at me and reacting with blank (undetailed) abjection to Alchemist saying your and my slot weren't towny enough for a coalition looked a little off to me? And like Spangled has a point, your suspicion of me is pretty weak itself.

Is there some reason you are mischaracterizing my post here? RC, objected to Spangled being in the coalition and then Alchemist removed both of us, after saying “fine”. I referenced that because RCMA made no mention of us, so I was wondering why Alchemist seemed to make that connection.

I had agreed with some of your posts but obviously not all and I explained the reasoning for that. I’m very curious how that read as “buddying” to you?

@Alchemist, it was Nero who made the “y” post.

[NC 39]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

One thing I noticed about both of your scumgames. was that you seemed to be trying to win the Guinness award for OMGUS voting. You haven’t done that so far in this game.

[Skygazer]

YOUAREGREAT replaces Clemency.

[Gamma Emerald]

1: yes
2: I have not read your ISO yet.

In that case, can you please read my ISO first? My answer to your RC questions earlier will essentially be me rehashing what I've already said.

This is almost the exact line of reasoning I used on my scum read of you

How tho

See post 97. If you still don't agree in the similar reasoning, I'm happy to weigh in further.

I don't see what in 97 covers "looks like how scum treat me in other games"

RC said: "[EP has] taken the same line of play that scum in the vast majority of my recent games have taken with me.

I said: RC was playing differently from his usually aggressive town game, which was a method I have seen experienced scum do in some of my recent games.
Proof:

Spoiler:

[...]Second, I'm saying you're behaving differently than the RC I have played with and observed through reading other games.

I also fail to see why you think I'm trying to tilt you by scumreading you + not putting you in my coalition. It's part of the game.

[...]

RC's intro reads like an excuse for him to not play his usual town game. I'm not familiar with RC's scum game, but from the games I've played with + seen him in, he usually plays aggressive town.

I'd like some more information from @nsg. Specifically, why do you think I'm scum + what is your answer to my question about the past game.

i don't think rc is the kind of person who needs an excuse when he's playing scum.

I have no doubt in RC's abilities, but I've seen this method used a few times by experienced players. Nobody is above it.

Both of us were saying that the other was taking a line of play consistent with scum behaviour we had witnessed in recent games.

How is RC playing less aggressive in line with what you've seen other scum do?

[NC 39]

Woah some stuff happened there. Sorry about that; I’m messing up formatting as never before this game.

I kind of messed up the original formatting myself. That seems to happen whenever I can’t quote a post directly that has spoiler tags.