Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[NC 39]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

not a fan of this post. so far, NC's gameplay feels like it's a lot of style over substance. he outs a lot of reads and fronts confidently but i don't really get the impression there's much of a genuine thought process behind his play. i like his pressure on alchemist, but it feels like he's too eager to catch him in a "gotcha" moment.

same with him writing off gamma's sr on him as "weak accusations". it feels like his default mode is defensive and afraid

Can you quote the posts, that gave you this feeling, so that I can address them?

[Spangled]

I have had a kind of weird scum-gut-read for a while on NC 39 because of occasionally abrasive interaction with me, but I looked over both my and their ISO and I’m pretty sure that I have been equally at fault in my abrasiveness — see my previous post for an example, actually, now that I think about it — toward them, and I feel like it’s a kind of semi-instinctive OMGUS that I should

probably

ignore.

not a fan of this post. so far, NC's gameplay feels like it's a lot of style over substance. he outs a lot of reads and fronts confidently but i don't really get the impression there's much of a genuine thought process behind his play. i like his pressure on alchemist, but it feels like he's too eager to catch him in a "gotcha" moment.

same with him writing off gamma's sr on him as "weak accusations". it feels like his default mode is defensive and afraid

I’m townreading NC 39’s willingness to read me despite RC’s read on me, but this comes with more reservations since I could be sort of... ‘anti-OMGUSing’, — where you townread someone because they correctly read you, I guess — maybe...

[NC 39]

this game is 100% a loss if we don't win d1. there is no chance that town doesn't end up turning on us if the coalition fails. we can't afford to have to use precious hours arguing

@LUV, thoughts on this.

LUV, I don’t care if you don’t want us in your coalition but I’m not at all happy that you don’t seem very interested in even having a coalition at all.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I can’t propose one because I wouldn’t have enough sufficient reasoning and I don’t even have 5 town reads. Alchemist, EP, and Spangled look like they’re game solving and genuinely have town best interest in mind but simply passing the eye test isn’t enough for me with how focused everyone is on a coalition.

I think RCMA emphasized that because he doesn’t have faith that this town is skilled enough in mountainous.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Yeah it stems from RC tired of being fear scum read and gauging skill level. I’m not saying he’s wrong but I think if anyone else said that it would be ignored.

[Hectic]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

it'd be between LUV/Alchemist for the lynch for me as everyone else still feels towny

want to fit Great into my coalition but seems people are starting to drop me so probably doesn't matter. if i'm talking about my 5 biggest townreads, i think it'd be:

RCMA, Espresso, Great, Spangled, NC 39

i'd need to reread the thread to see who i'd throw out for myself but kinda busy today

[NC 39]

We have just a little over 3 days and so far, we don’t have a consensus. How are we going to get 5 people aboard on the same 5 reads, if people aren’t willing to agree on any 5 slots?

[Spangled]

@Spangled, if you’re now tr LUV and since I was the one who first expressed concern over all of the sr on him, I really don’t understand your recent thought process on this.

Also @LUV are you planning on creating a coalition yourself and if so, who would you put into it.

I am not at all rigid wrt to my coalition choices but with the deadline close approaching, we need no less than 5 people to be in sync on 5 players.

I really don’t understand how you’re so solid on GREAT.

As for Gamma, ISO’d a few of their scumgames and I didn’t see this kind of re-evaluation in any of them. His play has been extremely baffling to me but that did read sincere to me, so I honestly don’t know what to think about it.

I really hope that RCMA aren’t repping out, we really need their input, so it’s so close to the deadline and it doesn’t look like we’re any closer to a consensus.

I know and am willing to change my coalition picks, in order to get it passed, because rn, it’s not looking like it’s even happening.

I don’t know how much of this is to me, but I’m just going to address everything except that which is explicitly to LUV.

LUV’s tone has changed for the better, now that he’s been

posting at all

— like I said somewhere, 481 I get, and while being disinterested in a game is really not something I can understand on a person level, or relate to, (I’m not really not that jaded yet, fortunately), I can

understand

it.

I am... less solid on GREAT than I have been. I still townread them, though, for sure; I know I’ve towncased them, and cited said towncase fairly recently. I really cannot be bothered to link it right now, but it’s in my ISO fairly recently, and the link to it is yet more recent.

[Spangled]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

Hectic, if I see this (below), what else am I supposed to think than that it’s a kind ‘relevatory scumread’?

- snipped case on Alch -
that's all, think i've convinced myself a little with that actually lol

[NC 39]

I can’t propose one because I wouldn’t have enough sufficient reasoning and I don’t even have 5 town reads. Alchemist, EP, and Spangled look like they’re game solving and genuinely have town best interest in mind but simply passing the eye test isn’t enough for me with how focused everyone is on a coalition.

I think RCMA emphasized that because he doesn’t have faith that this town is skilled enough in mountainous.

And you don’t agree? Why would you not want a coalition? Most games are won by town on D1, by getting it right. Don’t you see that having no coalition at all, only helps scum?

Even a failed coalition gives us information, where no coalition tells us absolutely nothing. How are you not seeing this?

[Spangled]

@GREAT
A readslist, please? And a coalition, maybe?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I can’t propose one because I wouldn’t have enough sufficient reasoning and I don’t even have 5 town reads. Alchemist, EP, and Spangled look like they’re game solving and genuinely have town best interest in mind but simply passing the eye test isn’t enough for me with how focused everyone is on a coalition.

I think RCMA emphasized that because he doesn’t have faith that this town is skilled enough in mountainous.

And you don’t agree? Why would you not want a coalition? Most games are won by town on D1, by getting it right. Don’t you see that having no coalition at all, only helps scum?

Even a failed coalition gives us information, where no coalition tells us absolutely nothing. How are you not seeing this?

I think you’re misunderstanding. It’s not that I don’t want to vote or propose for one. I just don’t want to invest in one I don’t really believe in because I would feel bad if it failed.

[NC 39]

@Spangled, if you’re now tr LUV and since I was the one who first expressed concern over all of the sr on him, I really don’t understand your recent thought process on this.

Also @LUV are you planning on creating a coalition yourself and if so, who would you put into it.

I am not at all rigid wrt to my coalition choices but with the deadline close approaching, we need no less than 5 people to be in sync on 5 players.

I really don’t understand how you’re so solid on GREAT.

As for Gamma, ISO’d a few of their scumgames and I didn’t see this kind of re-evaluation in any of them. His play has been extremely baffling to me but that did read sincere to me, so I honestly don’t know what to think about it.

I really hope that RCMA aren’t repping out, we really need their input, so it’s so close to the deadline and it doesn’t look like we’re any closer to a consensus.

I know and am willing to change my coalition picks, in order to get it passed, because rn, it’s not looking like it’s even happening.

I don’t know how much of this is to me, but I’m just going to address everything except that which is explicitly to LUV.

LUV’s tone has changed for the better, now that he’s been

posting at all

— like I said somewhere, 481 I get, and while being disinterested in a game is really not something I can understand on a person level, or relate to, (I’m not really not that jaded yet, fortunately), I can

understand

it.

I am... less solid on GREAT than I have been. I still townread them, though, for sure; I know I’ve towncased them, and cited said towncase fairly recently. I really cannot be bothered to link it right now, but it’s in my ISO fairly recently, and the link to it is yet more recent.

Their tone does seem sincere but so far, all they’ve done is state who they don’t want in their coalition, not who they do. I’m not sr that but him not wanting one is anti-town.

LUV seems to disagree with RCMA on mountainous but mountainous games are notoriously scumsided. That’s why this extremely pro-town mechanic exists in this game, I imagine - to balance that out.

I’m starting to understand RCMA’s apathy. What I don’t is why they’re not trying harder to make this happen. RC successfully led a town win on Witches Ball, so I’m legit concerned, that they are so frustrated, they have completely given up on this game.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Of course they’re scum sided, I just don’t think that’s a worry for an RC that feels he can work with a town.

[NC 39]

I can’t propose one because I wouldn’t have enough sufficient reasoning and I don’t even have 5 town reads. Alchemist, EP, and Spangled look like they’re game solving and genuinely have town best interest in mind but simply passing the eye test isn’t enough for me with how focused everyone is on a coalition.

I think RCMA emphasized that because he doesn’t have faith that this town is skilled enough in mountainous.

And you don’t agree? Why would you not want a coalition? Most games are won by town on D1, by getting it right. Don’t you see that having no coalition at all, only helps scum?

Even a failed coalition gives us information, where no coalition tells us absolutely nothing. How are you not seeing this?

I think you’re misunderstanding. It’s not that I don’t want to vote or propose for one. I just don’t want to invest in one I don’t really believe in because I would feel bad if it failed.

I don’t want it to fail either but don’t you think a failed coalition > than no coalition at all?

If it - hopefully (assuming we can even get 5 consensus coalitions) does pass, then we win but even if it fails, we have info because we would know that one of the consenus 5 is scum, where as with no coalition getting passed, we forfeit that advantage.

[NC 39]

Of course they’re scum sided, I just don’t think that’s a worry for an RC that feels he can work with a town.

I’m not following this. Both of them have played this game before and I think nsg maybe even modded it? So, I think they have a pretty good understanding of this setup and having played it in a previous game, I 100% agree with them.

[NC 39]

Yeah it stems from RC tired of being fear scum read and gauging skill level. I’m not saying he’s wrong but I think if anyone else said that it would be ignored.

Oh sorry I missed that. I understand where he’s coming from but they are almost everyone’s top tr in this game. I’m not happy that GREAT has so far ignored everyone else’s nsg read, so I would prefer Alchemist/Gamma/LUV over GREAT. I’m not currently sr them but I don’t understand Spangled/LUV/Hectic’s confident tr on them.

[Spangled]

@GREAT
A readslist, please? And a coalition, maybe?

Actually, I want a readslist from everyone, including would/would not include in coalition. My reads are paranoia-flip-flopping everywhere, and I need to see what my townreads (

and

my scumreads) think, so I can get some idea of how people’s reads agree/disagree with mine, and who to sheep on what issues, because I feel that, by and large, that is what I’m going to be reduced to.

I’m particularly interested as to what everyone thinks of EP, because I’m kind of reconsidering them. Edit-y thing: After ISOing them, I still kind of am, but less so. some thoughts:
I liked how they read through previous coalition games, and tried to glean insight from them. It could be scum looking busy, but I don’t think it reads like that.
I like 130, 74 and kind of 139. Also, 240.
But I’m really paranoid about them. Their tone feels weird and formal (like in 483, I guess?); I just don’t like it for some reason — although I think that might be how my posts read too, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really want to know where RCMA’s scumread on them came from, because if I remember correctly it was pretty much all based on how EP wanted to ‘tilt’ them.

@EP
I want to hear more about what you say in 260. Do you still feel that on Gamma?

[Spangled]

@Spangled: my 'case' on Alchemist was me trying to find how everything he was saying could be perceived as scummy. i did say specify that before i think and i'm not really convinced on him at all

it'd be between LUV/Alchemist for the lynch for me as everyone else still feels towny

want to fit Great into my coalition but seems people are starting to drop me so probably doesn't matter. if i'm talking about my 5 biggest townreads, i think it'd be:

RCMA, Espresso, Great, Spangled, NC 39

i'd need to reread the thread to see who i'd throw out for myself but kinda busy today

Ugh. The latter part of this post reads kinda towny to me — if Hectic is scum, his partner is probably in there; if he’s scum and that coalition is all town there’s a big gamble going on there (although how he doesn’t actually vote for that coalition offsets some of that).

But then again I don’t like the earlier bit of the post. I can’t settle on some

really

solid townreads here, other than the one person truly inactive, and it’s super frustrating.

[Spangled]

Of course they’re scum sided, I just don’t think that’s a worry for an RC that feels he can work with a town.

I don’t want to do some disgusting amateur psychoanalysis that I’ll regret here, but I kind of got the feeling that RC felt that he actually

couldn’t

work with this town...?
nsg’s absence worries me much more, I have to admit.

[Spangled]

I’m not currently sr them [GREAT] but I don’t understand Spangled/LUV/Hectic’s confident tr on them.

It’s a kind of low-level mindmeld in some areas; I really got where they were coming from with their thoughts about Clemency’s few posts; it mostly boils down to that, really — I can see myself saying that as town; it makes sense to me on a kind of fundamental level.

I am getting paranoid on them as well, in the same way as with EP — everyone seems to be adding them to their coalitions, so I can see scum!them just kind of sitting back and relaxing. But then they probably have IRL stuff etc, so...?

I think if our coalition doesn’t succeed with GREAT in it, we need to be getting them to give reads and see if their progression makes sense, because when they repped in, they spewed a lot of thoughts and reads everywhere, and
if they’re scum that will be the thing we catch them on.

That’s how FF slipped by as scum until the very end in CK9++; when they repped in they made a massive narrative through their reads, but no one ever questioned them afterwards on those reads, and so they got townpoints for their catchup, but didn’t actually have to answer many questions afterward, so they got townpoints for nothing.

[Spangled]

I feel like I’ve missed some question directed at me somewhere, but I am too tired to go back and look for it. Please @ it to me, whoever’s question I missed.

[EspressoPatronum]

We have just a little over 3 days and so far, we don’t have a consensus. How are we going to get 5 people aboard on the same 5 reads, if people aren’t willing to agree on any 5 slots?

The way I see it, most of the debate is over 1 slot.

Almost every coalition has EP, NC, RCMA, and Spangled. I feel quite good about that core 4, but the big question is who to put at the 5th.

Contenders appear to be: Hectic, Alch, and GREAT. Anyone with those people in their coalition (myself included re: Hectic) seems willing to change with some convincing.

[EspressoPatronum]

@Spamgled
I won't have time to address your questions point by point until later tonight. Will get to it then.

Some quick notes:
- the formality of some of my posts is perhaps due to my area of study + work. Some of those posts you linked look like the way I structure some emails.
- the paranoia is normal. Almost every player in nsg's game was convinced the coalition would fail + were thus paranoid. (*remind me later to find the scum pairings post by Almost50 -- we may be able to use his logic here).

[EspressoPatronum]

Spangled.* That typo was not a passive aggressive jab.