Micro 887: the coaLITion [game over]

[Hectic]

VC 2.04 Gamma Emerald (2): gobbledygook, Lil Uzi Vert Lil Uzi Vert (1): EspressoPatronum Not Voting (4): Hectic, Spangled, Gamma Emerald, NC 39 With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to reach a majority. Day one ends in (expired on 2019-09-23 19:25:00).

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

L-1

[NC 39]

Hectic, I mainly scumread you because I thought it was odd you didn’t try to include yourself or fight for yourself to be included. The only time you wanted to include yourself was when LUV was out. An individual townie knows that a coalition with themselves included is more likely to succeed than a coalition without themselves in it.

ah right, interesting. i didn't think i could really fight for myself to be included, anything i say is just self-meta/analysis and NAI imo
i actually included myself in the coalition vote late on just in case people changed their minds on me, but i think NC? asked me to replace myself with the popular choice (Gamma or LUV iirc)

where did you get the impression i only wanted to include myself when LUV was out? i always wanted to be included

That is untrue. It was Alchemist and Spangled I wanted over you.

[Hectic]

Hectic, I mainly scumread you because I thought it was odd you didn’t try to include yourself or fight for yourself to be included. The only time you wanted to include yourself was when LUV was out. An individual townie knows that a coalition with themselves included is more likely to succeed than a coalition without themselves in it.

ah right, interesting. i didn't think i could really fight for myself to be included, anything i say is just self-meta/analysis and NAI imo
i actually included myself in the coalition vote late on just in case people changed their minds on me, but i think NC? asked me to replace myself with the popular choice (Gamma or LUV iirc)

where did you get the impression i only wanted to include myself when LUV was out? i always wanted to be included

That is untrue. It was Alchemist and Spangled I wanted over you.

i think it was Espresso then

[NC 39]

Spoiler:

[

[/color]HEAL: Gamma

The Gamma v LUV disagreement looks genuine + Gamma came out of it looking more town.

HEAL: Spangled

Liking Spangled's posting style thus far. I'm not yet certain if the wide coalition read on Spangled is a good or bad thing, but I'm treating it as a good thing for now.

I’ve seen UTRs be scum, but the biggest, most-AI thing is (in my limited experience) why they end up being UTRed. I don’t know how many people here know emps, but he’s been UTRed up until around EoD2 as scum before, mostly due to tone, and a sheer number of posts, most of which were actually pretty contentless, but seemed helpful.
Townreads everyone agrees on win games, though, especially this one.

Also, about the Gamma v LUV thing, I think Gamma came out of it

somewhat

towny, but what did you think about LUV? Did you agree with Gamma on his defensiveness?

I like this question from Spangled
HEAL: Spangled
HEAL: Gamma Emerald as well now that I'm starting my coalition

HEAL: RC most awesomest
I think they're town, but moreover I'm trying to fast track a majority coalition because of the deadline, and this is the most common coalition choice I see rn

HURT: Spangled
I still think he's town but I don't feel so strongly about it that I'd keep him in my coalition when he's probably not going to be in the majority one

Not really a case, but I think I prefer him over LUV at the moment.

I’m not opposed to lynching Gamma today, I’m just not as convinced of your LUV tr as you are.

The only thing that stuck out at me was his misrepping me earlier in the game, which Alchemist pointed out but then he owned up to that, so I checked some of his scumgames to see if he’d ever done a 180 like that and couldn’t find an example of it.

Problem is that both slots get mislynched a lot. That’s why it would really help to see those posts and why you sr them.

See the quoted Gamma posts in this post. I find it odd that Gamma gives a lot of explanation for his heal/hurt votes and then drops it all together. Plus, he has been scumreading LUV all game yet is too afraid to put a vote down there when a coalition fails with LUV in it? That doesn't make sense from my perspective. Feels like fake scumhunting.

If it weren’t for RC pushing Alchemist, LUV would have probably gotten lynched over Alchemist and Gamma was also been in an accident, so I don’t put much stock in him not voting, unless you think he’s making that up or something?

I want to hear from others because you were over eager to lynch LUV earlier, so I don’t know whether to trust this read. I just want to be more confident and I’m still not.

Particularly Spangled and Espresso.

[NC 39]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

If you truly believe this then why aren’t you concerned that he’s now voting him?

[NC 39]

Let’s do it.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

So, what happened to your Espresso sr? Weren’t you sr me and him?

[Hectic]

true, that vote is really opportunistic lol

[gobbledygook]

If it weren’t for RC pushing Alchemist, LUV would have probably gotten lynched over Alchemist and Gamma was also been in an accident, so I don’t put much stock in him not voting, unless you think he’s making that up or something?

No, I think he is being truthful about the car accident. I just think its weird that he has not voted LUV despite scumreading LUV before the coalition failed.

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

huh, what suggests that to you?

You already kind of responded to this point about including the most popular option other than yourself, so I guess it is moot.

---

I think I need a nightkill to orient myself in this game honestly. I think I know how it is going to turn out, but I am praying I am wrong and we won't be in a similar situation like this tomorrow.

In a way, I am a little bit sheeping RCMA and their read on LUV. I do admit I have a certain blinder for inactive players, but I do think that scum are more likely to lurk by default.

[NC 39]

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

Time is limited right now but NC that looks like you’re trying to find a way to vote me without much blowback.

Spoiler:

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

You can’t just make this post and not elaborate. What about them reads fake to you?

I think limiting the lynch pool solely to those who were in the failed coalition is more likely to lead to a town loss.

What’s the case on Alchemist again?

Yes, that clearly worked out well for us. :/

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

So, why were you voting Espresso over Alchemist yesterday?

I asked you A) to explain both your Espresso vote, considering you were pushing Alchemist yesterday and B) to explain what about Espresso’s posts, you find “fake”.

Atp in the game, your vote isn’t getting “blowback” isn’t telling me anything but that you aren’t for some reason, interested in answering my questions.

What? I wasn’t pushing Alchemist yesterday? I really don’t get why you’re asking me about EP. I’m pretty sure I made it clear why I scum read him yesterday. Why aren’t you focused on who was on the wagon?

The hint of defeatist attitude in EP’s opening post today feels fake because he didn’t seem at all invested in the consensus Alchemist scum read and it took the threat of a no lynch for him to hammer.

Calling RCMA a potential mislynch and a sub-optimal kill target feels fake because I think we can both agree that no one here is capable of going toe-to-toe with RC in a one-on-one as scum and would much rather do away with him in the night. I feel like EP would be very much aware of this due to how much stock he puts into meta.

I’m not interested because outside of asking me to explain my thoughts on EP’s earlier posts today, they don’t make sense.

I don’t understand how Espresso not being eager to vote Alchemist is scummy, since he already made it clear, he didn’t want to lynch outside of coalition.

That’s assuming EP is familiar with his meta but I didn’t really get the “suboptimal” kill part. I remember he did change his mind on that.

Your posts are super frustrating to me because I don’t know if you are scum trying to give me a migraine or town who is annoyed at me for not being a bloody mindreader!

All I know is we have a little less than two days and nothing you’s said is convincing me to vote Espresso over you.

It’s not that he wasn’t eager. It’s him saying he wants to go back lynching inside the coalition that read defeatist and just doesn’t make sense to me when he wasn’t all that gung-ho about an Alchemist lynch first place.

@LUV, what happened to this? Are you no longer sr Espresso or what?

[gobbledygook]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

If you truly believe this then why aren’t you concerned that he’s now voting him?

I mean, scum can bus. Do you think scum would not bus in this situation?

[gobbledygook]

hmmmmmmmmmm, the timestamps here kinda suggest to me that Gamma is actively lurking
like he didn't post anything before but then posts a few minutes after the two votes on him?
sorry if it's any way related to your situation though

I mean you both were active lurking, but

[NC 39]

I believe there’s scum in EP and Nancy. I don’t know how to articulate it then there pushes are bad and that I’m obvious town here based on my disengagement.

And there was also this. He has never even expressed a sr on Gamma. He’s been on Espresso since pretty much game start, so why is he suddenly voting Gamma?

@LUV, what is your current read on Espresso?

[gobbledygook]

Good luck getting an answer on that

[NC 39]

Plus I think the team is Hectic/Gamma and Hectic gladly put Gamma in over himself

If you truly believe this then why aren’t you concerned that he’s now voting him?

I mean, scum can bus. Do you think scum would not bus in this situation?

They might but I’m just surprised that you had no reaction to that, based on your theory about him being his partner.

I just hope Gamma is scum here but I will hammer either to avoid a no lynch.

[NC 39]

Good luck getting an answer on that

LUV’s vote is clearly a self-preservation vote is what concerns me but that’s NAI.

[gobbledygook]

I don't know what reaction you would have expected me to have? He voted a person I was voting and think is scum, so if it is Hectic/Gamma he is helping me. Did you want me to do something cheeky and say teehe, you've activated my trap? If you were in my position, what reaction would you have had?

You bring up very valid points against LUV based on his scumread and vote. I will need to consider that.

[NC 39]

@Spangled my progression and reasons for LUV

Spoiler:

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

m

Oh, whoops. Thought he had completely aligned his with the others.

That makes me feel a bit better about compromising again.

Compromise is the only way I see this coalition getting passed. Everyone is too paranoid and it's making things chaotic.

I don't feel great about LUV in the coalition and I don't know about Gamma, but I'm keeping them in to get the coalition passed.

I also agree that Gamma is more town out of LUV and Gamma.

VOTE: LUV

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote.

@Gg, Hectic? thoughts on this?

[NC 39]

I don't know what reaction you would have expected me to have? He voted a person I was voting and think is scum, so if it is Hectic/Gamma he is helping me. Did you want me to do something cheeky and say teehe, you've activated my trap? If you were in my position, what reaction would you have had?

You bring up very valid points against LUV based on his scumread and vote. I will need to consider that.

I just thought it odd that he has been pushing Espresso as scum but votes Gamma.

And as for weird voting, he has twice voted a different person than he was sr. D1 it was Espresso he was voting but then he suggested Alchemist.

Now today, he is once again pushing for Espresso but he votes Gamma?

I don’t know but I’m not going to rule out scum bussing in the case, Gamma flips scum. I think your case on Gamma has some merit but I’m a bit concerned about the votes on him. I just hope you’re right on LUV being town.

[gobbledygook]

Honestly, this is the most unsure I have ever felt about a game. I think you, EP, and Spangled all have a good chance of being town. If we could somehow make it to that endgame, that would be great.

[gobbledygook]

Part of me wants to sheep RCMA so I can totally absolve myself of any responsibility for this game.

[Hectic]

hmmmmmmmmmm, the timestamps here kinda suggest to me that Gamma is actively lurking
like he didn't post anything before but then posts a few minutes after the two votes on him?
sorry if it's any way related to your situation though

I mean you both were active lurking, but

no? other than my V/LA, i post every time i read the game

[NC 39]

All I have so far is EP’s thoughts on the night kill feel super fake to me.

So, if you truly think Gamma is scum and you’re a null on Hectic, who do you think is Gamma’s buddy then? Espresso or me, since you’re sr both of us.

[Hectic]

@Spangled my progression and reasons for LUV

Spoiler:

@EP
What’s your take on LUV, post-NC 39’s observation about how consensus seems to be that LUV is scum?

NC raises an interesting point, but I'm not comfortable enough with it to put LUV in my coalition.

First, I want active people in my coalition so I have a better chance at correctly sorting them. Putting LUV in because of inactivity and everyone else's behaviour seems backwards.

Second, all of my previous thoughts on LUV still apply. If we consider LUV's universal scum read ("USR") as a town factor in reading him, I'm still left with:

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

LUV, for

two

three

four reasons:
1. The lurking
2. I didn't like his early posts
3. I don't like his recent posts
4. I don't like the OMGUS vote

To expand:

1. My experience thus far has scum lurks surprisingly often. I even advocate for lurker policy lynches in most of my games bcz of how often I've seen scum skate by under the radar by lurking.

2. He wasn't helpful early. Telling us to ignore the mechanics of the game was anti-town. His early RC tr looks like he was trying to avoid attention. Alchemist gave a meta reason for his read, but I recall LUV leaving the TR without any reasons.

3. I disagreed with most of his catch-up posts. I also think that anyone touting a 'low activity' meta for town is doing a disservice to everyone else playing.

4. He again provided no reasons for what he was doing. I'm not even sure if OMGUS is scum indicative, but it's not a good look either way.

And NOW we have a problem.

3 people outside of the Coalition voting for it is a red flag.

HURT: Gamma

HEAL: Alchemist21

Who’s the 3rd?

Spangled

Spangled has GREAT in his. It isn't the same.

m

Oh, whoops. Thought he had completely aligned his with the others.

That makes me feel a bit better about compromising again.

Compromise is the only way I see this coalition getting passed. Everyone is too paranoid and it's making things chaotic.

I don't feel great about LUV in the coalition and I don't know about Gamma, but I'm keeping them in to get the coalition passed.

I also agree that Gamma is more town out of LUV and Gamma.

VOTE: LUV

Per my reasoning above, LUV is a good lynch if the coalition fails because:
1. He's within the coalition (see my earlier reasoning)
2. If he's town, I feel even better about town!NC
3. If he's scum, I feel very strongly about scum!NC (see reasoning above)

The NC connection wasn't my only reason at the time. Although I didn't cite it (and I kind of wish I did now), my scumread on LUV also informed my vote.

@Gg, Hectic? thoughts on this?

so Espresso here didn't want LUV in the coalition badly, but then used that same logic to say NC and LUV could be a thing because NC didn't want LUV in the coalition too?
is that what you're getting at?

[NC 39]

Part of me wants to sheep RCMA so I can totally absolve myself of any responsibility for this game.

Why wouldn’t we be in this frustrating situation if RC was alive?

This is funny, considering that we’re both lamenting RC not being in the game.

[Hectic]

yeah, this game is hard
who was RCMA scumreading again other than Alchemist?