Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Formerfish]

Fuck, lets top dis bitch.

[the worst]

Something_Smart replaced xofelf
they are confirmed town.

are they? :0

yes

i'm starting to townread SS so this is like extremely exciting

how so tho

[Alisae]

Aristophanes has died!

He was:

Spoiler:

Hello, Aristophanes! I'm Jingle and I'm here to welcome you to Alisae's Revenge! You're a

Novice Desperado Loyal Retainer

to the rightful Lord of the Land, Alisae. Unfortunately, the wicked tree that controls the Dark Forest has been acting up, causing insurrections left and right. Alisae has called an end to this nonsense, and is preparing to ride forth. Some of my messages have been compromised, however, and a few among you were recruited by the terrible monster to put an end to our quest before it even begins!

We must purge our party of those who have no loyalty, or we shall surely fail.

Abilities:

(Novice Desperado)

Once per game, during the day, you may target a player by posting Kill: [Player]. If that player is a Loyal Retainer of Alisae, you will die. Otherwise, they will die. You may not use this ability until Day 2.

The town win condition is: You win when all of Pine's minions have been killed.

The game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80863

Votes are reset, the day continues.

I'll freshen up the formatting tomorrow.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma I am sad you don't want to be my neighbor.

You're actually my pick for one of my revised selections

[Alisae]

Gamma just neighbourize SS if you get the chance.

[Gamma Emerald]

I see the Desperado action
Good on you Ari, probably one if the better shots you could have made for progressing the game. Shame everyone suspected you.

[the worst]

OH UFCK NICE

[Alisae]

Yeah
people can actually play mafia now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Bargain: Neighborize

Pops or Smarty are who I'll neighborize if I get it
I feel like a politician posting this

[Alisae]

Bargain: Neighborize

Pops or Smarty are who I'll neighborize if I get it
I feel like a politician posting this

Gamma you have to make Pine an offer he can't refuse

[the worst]

{tw, ss}
{gamma, fishy}
{menaphos, dannflor}
{mariar}
{greyice, katsuki}
{krazy, titus, chennisden, iconeum, punk bill, penguinpower} <= roughly null
{firebringer, popsmaybetown}
{mastina}

so i'm townreading scum in some fashion


fishy first take for apocalyptically deep wolf. he's so high because i think the emotional range he's exhibited here is likely outside of his scum ethos; could like, technically be wrong, this is a very meta read

gamma like...consistently bleeds town imo

dannflor townread i like more than i did earlier, i think earlier when he menalque and i were interacting i kinda thought mena was more likely to be town than dannflor so maybe that just is a 3 town core? wow

mariar just posts pure and she's not pushing an agenda; idk why scum!maria in this game just..doesn't try and be townread or really do much, the only thing she's done is go for LLD. ah crap maybe she is the person i'm wrong on. this would be a solid bus. i'll check later.

greyice/katsuki just kinda lukewarm off following d1; think greyice is townier than katsuki but he's also more absent so neither of them have done anything except lynch LLD so feel like warmer bus takes. someone made a point about greyice doing something he wouldn't have done as scum emotionally to LLD which makes me think i missed something important in the like ~80 pages i skipped, hmu if this is a real thing

don't care about anyone in the next tier.

already spoken about subnulls today

[the worst]

i tried ok

[the worst]

@ari we don't deserve you. you're the best.

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

this role doesn't make a lick of sense as scum and it's gross. I'm town, Keith. I know you lynch scum and don't argue but I'm ending this shit here. Reevaluate based on the fact I'm town, or don't and perma tunnel me I guess, but this is conclusive proof in my mind.

So what you're saying is that you're a bulletproof ascetic. Could scum get a bulletproof ascetic?

Hmmm.

I dunno.

Wait yes I do know, that's a great scum claim

WHO THE FUCK GIVES SCUM A BULLETPROOF ASCETIC IN A POWER MADNESS GAME BASED ON DRAFTING?!

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

WHAT IS YOUR MALFUNCTION. THIS IS LIKE EX-POSTFACTO GOING BACK TRYING TO JUSTIFY ANYTHING YOU CAN TO KEEP CALLIN} ME SCUM

Um, no. That's actually a very fair scum role.

In general, scum Godfather > Scum Ascetic, because Godfather will give false results and appear town, while Ascetic will give no result (and is often considered basically a miller claim). Ascetic has some advantages - can't be jailkept, roleblocked, etc. but is in general slightly worse than a godfather.

Then we add in bulletproof. Is bulletproof godfather really that far out? Nah. I've seen bulletproof godfathers, hell, I've been a bulletproof godfather in a MOI game. And that's assuming you're not fakeclaiming like Ascetic to Commuter.

On top of that scum commuter adds interesting tension as you almost certainly can't night kill the night you commute.

For anyone with doubts on LLD:

She just claimed to be immune to investigation and immune to the scum night kill. She will never die and power roles will never sort her, according to her own claim. This isn't a problem you get to kick down the road. Decide. Here and now.

It's actually not a lie because I've never promised to post a vote and leave the thread before. I've promised to lynch myself and then talked people out of it. How am I gonna get out of it when I can't talk or I'll die lol

I really don't care to get into the weeds of past games and the various promises made.
Or the fact you are literally recycling the "my husband made me cry" tactic from the Dead of Winter game where you were a traitor
Because I know you're scum
You know I know you're scum
This is just playing to the crowd, who hasn't been there, and hasn't seen it, and don't know that this is exactly the scum pattern

And I'm playing to them too. I will carry water as long as I need to to see this happen.

You really think this is plausibly bus material?

[the worst]

ooooo i remember 1149
2224 is firmly in the section i skipped so idrk

i'm putting greyice back in the townbin though, thanks krazzy.

[mastina]

Pine didn't pick me because I am a poor choice. I, similarly to Krazy, feel miserable as scum.

So we shouldn't scumread you because you're a poor choice, but Krazy is your second biggest scumread.
I smell something... something fishy... something... like bullshit

Those don't contradict each other; they augment each other.

Krazy is a strong scumread of mine because it is self-evident that he is miserable this game when as scum he would be miserable.
I am town because if I were scum I would be miserable but this game I am very definitively not.

Well.

Not miserable in the way I would be miserable as scum.

If I were miserable as scum I would be doing exactly what Krazy who is miserable scum is doing: I would be posting as little as was humanly possible, doing as little as humanly possible, and basically just popping in with the bare minimum level of effort necessary.

My misery this game comes from an entirely different source.

Namely.

Ari is controversial for WKing LLD.

That's not why Aristophanes is scum, though it is something Aristophanes would do as scum.
Aristophanes is scum because of what he brings to the scumteam, the value Pine sees in Aristophanes, and what Aristophanes has done all game. What stances he's taken, what plays he's made, his tone, his content, his everything. The pushes he's made, the content he's providing, it all looks like his top-form scumgame rather than his natural towngame. Mostly, you can tell this by one simple fact;
Aristophanes this game is trying harder than he would be as town.
Yes, traditionally, Aristophanes as scum is a lurksack who does nothing; traditionally, town-Aristophanes usually does nothing for quite a bit and then ends up trying hard.

But this is an Aristophanes whose tryhardness is above and beyond the call to duty--this is an Aristophanes with something to prove, and Aristophanes as town would have nothing to prove.

Maybe I do have something to prove! Maybe it'll prove itself in time XD

Aristophanes has died!
He was:

You're a

Novice Desperado Loyal Retainer

to the rightful Lord of the Land, Alisae. Unfortunately, the wicked tree that controls the Dark Forest has been acting up, causing insurrections left and right. Alisae has called an end to this nonsense, and is preparing to ride forth. Some of my messages have been compromised, however, and a few among you were recruited by the terrible monster to put an end to our quest before it even begins!
We must purge our party of those who have no loyalty, or we shall surely fail.
Abilities:

(Novice Desperado)

Once per game, during the day, you may target a player by posting Kill: [Player]. If that player is a Loyal Retainer of Alisae, you will die. Otherwise, they will die. You may not use this ability until Day 2.[/spoiler]Votes are reset, the day continues. I'll freshen up the formatting tomorrow.

Fuck this game.

[Alisae]

hey mastina
you wanna break down every single post krazy wrote and why its a scumpost
i'm not seeing it

[Krazy]

I'm curious why you seem to be thinking I'm "miserable" this game

[Krazy]

Actually wait hold on

I'm starting to feel a little bit inspired

[mastina]

Tired of mastina calling scum to players when her stance on herself and other players is "anyone is a good pick for Pine, if someone wasn't a good pick, they wouldn't be in the game".

And by the way?

Pink Ball loses the entirety of his fucking townread for this massive fucking misrep of me.

Anyone is a good pick for Pine--and if they weren't, they wouldn't be in the game.

This is true.

That doesn't mean there aren't players who are better picks to make than others; that doesn't mean there aren't players who are more likely to be picked; that doesn't mean picks can't be hypothesized, picks can't be theorized, picks can't be discussed.

Anyone could've been picked, but as I said before, the question to ask isn't why Pine would or wouldn't pick someone; the question is why Pine did or didn't pick them. The former is a shitty question which you will never get good answers for. The latter is something that can be talked about, discussed, debated, and so on and so forth and that is precisely what I have done, outlined who I think Pine did pick and who I think Pine did not pick and the whys behind it.

Mastina is not really playing the game.

Yes because me giving my reads on the entire playerlist along with reasons why, and continuing to engage on those reads the entire fucking game. Is totally me not playing the game. Me explaining my stances, engaging players and pushing my stances. Is totally me not playing the game. Me being in a situation where by every fucking right I should be conftown and then after by EVERY FUCKING RIGHT ME SHOULD BE CONFTOWN BEING CALLED SCUM BY HALF THE TOWN.

Is totally me not playing the game.

And she's actually a good pick for Pine

Bullshit.
I have gotten mislynched or misvigged in almost every fucking game I have played this year and even in the games I didn't get either of those I came damn fucking close. L-1 in Undertale comes to mind for instance as does the fact that I was being lined up to be the next lynch in Skygazer's Everything Normal and only averted it because the last scum was lynched so the town can't mislynch me when the game's over in a town win before they can. Fuck even in xyzzy's anyone can post, game, I was almost fucking lynched although to be fair it was a crossvote between me and a different town player so scum could've picked anyone they wanted to to be the lynch and it'd have gone through and it was almost a coinflip where they did lynch me.

Mislynched.
Or misvigged.
In almost every. fucking. game.
I have played.

What makes that magically change with me being scum?
What makes me magically stop being an easy town lynch?
What makes scumastina magically, mystically, go from being a town mislynch as town, to not being lynched as scum?
...Anything?

...No?

Okay, so we've fucking established that if I am scum I still get fucking lynched. So my value can't be in me living to the endgame.
So what other value do I provide?
I can set up my scumteam for success after I am lynched.
Okay, then why was LLD scum, and why was LLD scum specifically the D1 lynch? LLD filled that role for the scumteam. Pine WANTED us to focus on her D1 and focus on her D1 we did indeed. LLD filled this role on the scumteam; are you seriously going to posit that Pine doubled down on having not one but TWO, a full THIRD OF HIS SCUMTEAM, be fucking sacrificial lambs?

Because suggesting I am scum this game when LLD flipped scum is suggesting exactly fucking that.

Okay.
So my value as scum isn't that I endgame.
My value as scum isn't that I prop up my scumbuddies.
What value does that leave in my scumplay?
Propping my scumteam up? I am a bossy bitch; that is not a skill which is really in my repertoire. It can happen, but only if I am on a scumteam where I've got good friends as my scumbuddies, and even then it's not a guarantee. (For instance RC's game had my scumteam and I heavily fight with one another behind the scenes in spite of me being entirely surrounded by friends in it. That was literally one of the best scumteams I could ask for in terms of propping up my scumteam, and I

didn't do it then

because as I said: it's not a skill which is really in my repertoire.)
Speculating as to the identity of town PRs?
I don't fucking PR hunt as scum; this is not a skill scumastina would thus bring to Pine's scumteam.
Working on mechanics to shut down any town mechanical solve?
That's literally the closest to a possible skill Pine could see value in picking me for, and that is still not my specialty as scum.
Crafting fakeclaims for my team?
My modus operandi as scum is to tell the fucking truth and encourage my scumteam to do the same.
Help Pine create a plan?
So what's the fucking plan I helped create then? This scumteam is not fucking following any plan I'd have made and the jjh kill is fucking proof of that. (jjh was, by the way, a scumread and good fucking luck finding a scumgame of mine where I kill a fucking player I am scumreading.)

What makes me a good pick for Pine this game, pray tell?

Absofuckinglutely nothing, at least given the known and proven facts so far in the game given what has happened and what we know has transpired thusfar.

There is good reason for me to be picked in theory--there is such reasoning for every player to be picked. Every player has a reason they would be picked and I am no exception to that. There is damn fucking good reason Pine DIDN'T pick me.

along with PP. Called them out on D1, they're both scum.

Oh yes I am scum with a player who I would happily fucking lynch because I was literally the first fucking person to call PenguinPower possible scum on D1. Right. That's how scumastina plays these days.

[Krazy]

VOTE: mastina

[Alisae]

Anyone is a good pick for Pine--and if they weren't, they wouldn't be in the game.

not true
Pine actually considered not inviting you but I told him that he should because games are meant to be played with friends.

[Alisae]

UNVOTE: if I haven't already btw, not sure I want to go around endorsing something at this moment.

[Krazy]

Pine actually considered not inviting you but I told him that he should because games are meant to be played with friends.

what?

why would you say this 0.o

[mastina]

Having those 2 slots resolved NOW is actually game changing.

I mean I called SS as town anyway so. Far from helpful to me given that Aristophanes's role perfectly explains his play.

He had a similar incentive I had to tryhard.

I identified him tryharding as him having something to prove and thought that could only come from scum.

Him having a role designed to die perfectly explains his tryharding and I know that all too fucking well because no fucking shit I did literally the same fucking thing, I just thought that there wasn't another role like that designed to die.