Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[PenguinPower]

[Something_Smart]

I'm not saying he wouldn't do it

You kind of did say this. You said he'd never flip scum iirc.

[Katsuki]

kats do u no longer scumread mastina? U were yelling yesterday to lynch mastina as well.

I was feeling very confident about the game with Lexiscum until I mislynched DGB. Probably need to re-evaluate my reads this game.

My issue with mastina is similar to DGB, in that logically they appear to be scum, but I never got strong gut scumreads from either of them. Both are players whom I've traditionally read with ease, but with this being the first game I've ever misread DGB in over 9 years, I don't know what I'm going to get with Mastina.

Perhaps she's scum and I was right all along but mislynching DGB was depressing.

[Pink Ball]

Dann I fucking love you please don't be scum ok

that would not be very cash money

I agree you unfaithful shit you promised me a dance AND you OWE me that and I'm not dancing with you if you're scum

@SS I don't remember saying Dann would never flip scum, maybe you got me mixed up with someone else? I said his reaction could be NAI, but I'm townreading him for it, but the posts above show that I haven't been THAT hyperbolic with my read on him.

He is one of my strongest townreads, along with Firedaddy, GreyIce and Katsuki. MariaR, the worst and pops too

[Something_Smart]

Firebringer
MariaR
Gamma Emerald
ankamius
GreyICE
jjh927
Dannflor
Menalque

All town, no matter what the flip is

Maybe I misinterpreted your confidence level but this seemed pretty confident.

[Pink Ball]

No no, it was a division between townreads not depending on LLD and townreads depending on LLD. I think there was a "town if LLD flips scum" with Ari in that same post, right? (Phoneposting)

[Pink Ball]

Oh yeah I was townreading Gamma and Mena too, good to know

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, there was.

Understood. I probably did cross wires between that post and mastina's, which actually did say that Dancefloor never flips scum. Awaiting that explanation.

[Menalque]

So FB and SS are both scum, cool

Where was the town motivation to grab the fruit there, either of you go ahead and try to explain that to me?

Menalque this is a good example of what I was talking about.

What about it? Ali had very, very explicitly said that no-one should ask for the governor fruit what, like a page before this?

Given that Ali was, at the time, the only person who was conf!town to me, it seems odd to then go against her wishes before we discussed it as a group. I think maybe you're reading the tone here as odd, but I think I very often post things that are overconfident in terms of reads in the heat the heat of the moment when I'm reacting to something.

I do still think that it is an ongoing anti-town thing to bargain for fruit without Ali's approval, but everyone seems to be shitting all over that so it can't uniquely be scum doing it. Like, I get it, asking for fruit is fun and people wanna have fun. But I'd also like to win, and so people should stop doing this so we can discern scummy fruit requests from greedy/dumb town requests.

[Something_Smart]

it seems odd to then go against her wishes before we discussed it as a group.

Yeah, it's absolutely odd!

But it's equally odd as town or scum. Calling it scummy is level zero thinking. I don't know if that's a scumtell but it's sure annoying.

[Menalque]

Okay, let me rephrase: I think concretely going against what the conf!town wants is anti-town and I think being anti-town is scummy. So beyond odd.

[Something_Smart]

That said, I can understand you saying something you didn't mean because you were frustrated. You literally called me out on doing exactly that last night. But it was annoying to have Fire's troll bargain lumped in with my carefully calculated plan-- although part of the plan was concealing the fact that it was carefully calculated, so I suppose maybe I was just being petulant.

[Something_Smart]

Being overtly anti-town is not scummy, except in cases where you're clearly acting with no regard to the town wincon. Both town and scum are well aware of how such an action will be perceived and choosing it anyway weighs out the superficial harm it brings to town.

[Something_Smart]

It's kind of a pointless argument, though. I certainly believe that you believed it was scummy. Many people do.

[Pink Ball]

I don't. Fireb is town

[Something_Smart]

Did we ever get an answer as to how long Pine owns his vote for?

[Titus]

No. We didn't.

@Mel, Conf!town =/= conf!right.

Random note: If I am wrong on Gamma, Dann's a good choice.

[PenguinPower]

bargain for fruit without Ali's approval, but everyone seems to be shitting all over that so it can't uniquely be scum doing it.

[Pink Ball]

Did we ever get an answer as to how long Pine owns his vote for?

I asked Jingle a couple of times if after Ari's flip he would get it back.

JINGLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Something_Smart]

He answered that with no, I think.

But I pointed out earlier that Pine had a wording that implied it would last until Fire used the governor.

[Titus]

I don't. Fireb is town

What's your opinion on the worst?

[Menalque]

Being overtly anti-town is not scummy, except in cases where you're clearly acting with no regard to the town wincon. Both town and scum are well aware of how such an action will be perceived and choosing it anyway weighs out the superficial harm it brings to town.

It's kind of a pointless argument, though. I certainly believe that you believed it was scummy. Many people do.

Only I think that because of the WIFOM involved in "too scummy to be scum" scum totally can be down to just do it anyway and try to get by off that. And I think that governor is something scum would particularly want to have because it lets them dictate a lynch potentially.

I would lean towards saying that if someone is playing openly anti-town you should just lynch them hard and early every game that they do that in. I see no reason to let someone actively work towards the other team's wincon stay in the game. If you like socialising with them, cool, there are spaces where they can express their personality outside of games in other places in the forum. I think playing like that in game should be punished because it's actively fucking things up for everyone else.

Incidentally, this is the same reason that I think that lolhammers on town should nearly always be lynched the next day. If you don't do it, then scum can get away with doing it because it becomes something to just be shrugged off/tolerated.

In fact, I don't really love that fb has had as much of a pass on this as he's had, the more I think about it. If he's scum, would he potentially not make a deal on the fruit, hide behind the too scummy to be scum/oh that's just fb logic, and then put forward a bunch of town that would be lynchable, knowing that we couldn't lynch him until lylo anyway, and trusting in his ability to stir up paranoia about us losing the game if he's lynched in lylo to try and spin it elsewhere.

[Menalque]

I will say that the deal that PP has made with pine is one of the best things to happen to this thread in spite of it being anti-town though.

[Pink Ball]

I don't. Fireb is town

What's your opinion on the worst?

Read my ISO

[Something_Smart]

I will say that the deal that PP has made with pine is one of the best things to happen to this thread in spite of it being anti-town though.

We don't know if it was anti-town. In all likelihood, it didn't matter.

But yes, I am in agreement