micro 886: mbos6 william tatney. game ogre

[schadd_]

Citceh has been killed in the night! they were a

vanilla townie!

[schadd_]

Day 4 Starts!

[deep baritone] i seeeeeeeeee, a wooooorld where tatneeyyyyyy.......
is unaaaable to enact his plaaaans.
and iiiiin this wooooorld, that's shoooown to meeeee.........
in this woooorld......
[tempo increase] oh, children read, and adults garden,
the old ones live with loving hearts, and
roosters crow and squirrels [sudden high note] siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
about what? i'd never know

Vote count 4.0

not voting (4):

tris, Doctor Hopson, mastina, Mislynch Bait

with 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. day 4 starts now and ends august 9th at 13:50 central US time; in (expired on 2019-10-09 13:50:00)

mod notes

• thread unlocked
  
• e

[/area]

[Mislim Bait]

Man I got lots of games going on

VOTE: No Lynch
Make it lylo

[tris]

Well, that's an actual kill during the night.

VOTE: No Lynch

[mastina]

Well, that's an actual kill during the night.

VOTE: No Lynch

While I understand the theory behind no lynching since technically speaking we have no conftown and if someone we thought was conftown doesn't die whereas someone under suspicion does die (e.g. Citceh who I was planning on voting today Hopson's objections be damned), I still lean towards this being a scumclaim to create a more favorable lylo where whoever's considered the most competent town player is killed overnight.

[tris]

why my vote specifically?

[mastina]

why my vote specifically?

Because I believe schadd's rules on No Lynch is that it's exactly 50% of the voters so I believe you hammered the no lynch.

[tris]

UNVOTE:

What? I don't see that?

[Doctor Hopson]

That sounds stupid.
I basically have no internet here.

We're cop. Mastina please roleclaim right now. In the absence of anything weird, Mastina is scum.

-Hop

[Doctor Hopson]

Yeah that rule isn't in the first page rules and isn't standard. There's no way the day ends here.

-Hop

[Doctor Hopson]

Like if the day ends here then we could lose due to an unannounced rule. The rules say majority decides a lynch. Since we can change our votes whenever we what you would absolutely need a rule saying that two votes on NL means that it immediately ends the day and you can't change your vote. It's only a majority if you can't change your vote which is 100% not mentioned as a rule.

There's absolutely a difference to what we'd say here depending on whether the thread is about to be locked or not.

-Hop

[tris]

I guess there's no need to no lynch now that it's between Hopson and mastina

[mastina]

That sounds stupid.
I basically have no internet here.

We're cop. Mastina please roleclaim right now. In the absence of anything weird, Mastina is scum.

-Hop

Nice try.
I'll claim if, and only if, schadd confirms that the day isn't over, but regardless of whether it is or not I can already tell you that you're fakeclaiming.

[Doctor Hopson]

Refusing to claim here is objectively bad. Unless you think I'm town fakeclaiming cop then there's no reason not to claim since I'd be confirmed bad to you.

We had an innocent on clemency/MLB n1.

Innocent on Citceh n2 which we wanted to strongly imply without claiming yesterday.

Last night we got an innocent on Tris or a guilty on Mastina. If we want to massclaim (@tris/MLB) then we're happy to reveal everything first. If we're not massclaiming then we'll reveal tomorrow.

Is scadd known for really weird setups? We do want to review old games he's hosted just in case.

[Doctor Hopson]

We still want to no lynch obviously. It's much better for us to check everyone just in case of those fringe 'weord/troll setup' and I don't see a downside.

[tris]

Well, I've already claimed.

Yes, these games, the Mystery Box of Silver series in particular, are known for having interesting twists. Some things are red herrings. I still don't know what's up with that message to keep an eye on the votes.

[Doctor Hopson]

We may not have any reliable results.

[mastina]

Refusing to claim here is objectively bad.

No, claiming just before night starts is objectively bad and I am waiting on the mod to confirm that hasn't happened before I do so.

Unless you think I'm town fakeclaiming cop then there's no reason not to claim since I'd be confirmed bad to you.

I do think precisely that for one simple reason.
Your claim is, stupendously, obviously a fakeclaim not for just one reason but for multiple compounding reasons.
Given that it is self-evidently a fakeclaim the only question would be which alignment is more likely to make that potentially game-costing fakeclaim.
If you were scum then making a fakeclaim this terribly bad would be absolutely gamethrowing--you were in no position to be lynched before the claim but after the claim because it is a stupidly obvious fakeclaim you're in prime position to set yourself up to be lynched.

That sounds a lot less likely than the alternative.
Where if you were town then making a fakeclaim this terribly bad would simply be a case of thinking you had a great idea but not realizing the multitude of holes in the plan, not thinking it through, thinking "hey this sounds like a good idea" but not realizing why the idea is actually stupid and could never work as intended. Something where you go in with an idea, an expected outcome, but where it doesn't pan out because you overlooked a critical flaw or two in your idea.

Something which COULD be gamethrowing, but which I can at least trace the thought process behind because I've done similar as town before.

If you're scum and you really were committing to the cop claim, you'd be gamethrowing; if you're town and you made that cop claim, you'd have an idea behind it which would make it not gamethrowing even if the claim endangers the town because of the obvious flaws in the plan.

I'll quite happily explain this in further detail!

If schadd confirms that the day has not ended.

[schadd_]

i dont have a sub-majority rule for no lynch, day continues

[mastina]

Refusing to claim here is objectively bad.

No, claiming just before night starts is objectively bad and I am waiting on the mod to confirm that hasn't happened before I do so.

Unless you think I'm town fakeclaiming cop then there's no reason not to claim since I'd be confirmed bad to you.

I do think precisely that for one simple reason.
Your claim is, stupendously, obviously a fakeclaim not for just one reason but for multiple compounding reasons.
Given that it is self-evidently a fakeclaim the only question would be which alignment is more likely to make that potentially game-costing fakeclaim.
If you were scum then making a fakeclaim this terribly bad would be absolutely gamethrowing--you were in no position to be lynched before the claim but after the claim because it is a stupidly obvious fakeclaim you're in prime position to set yourself up to be lynched.

That sounds a lot less likely than the alternative.
Where if you were town then making a fakeclaim this terribly bad would simply be a case of thinking you had a great idea but not realizing the multitude of holes in the plan, not thinking it through, thinking "hey this sounds like a good idea" but not realizing why the idea is actually stupid and could never work as intended. Something where you go in with an idea, an expected outcome, but where it doesn't pan out because you overlooked a critical flaw or two in your idea.

Something which COULD be gamethrowing, but which I can at least trace the thought process behind because I've done similar as town before.

If you're scum and you really were committing to the cop claim, you'd be gamethrowing; if you're town and you made that cop claim, you'd have an idea behind it which would make it not gamethrowing even if the claim endangers the town because of the obvious flaws in the plan.

I'll quite happily explain this in further detail!

If schadd confirms that the day has not ended.

i dont have a sub-majority rule for no lynch, day continues

As promised, I am a VT.

So the reasons why:

1: schadd hates cops.

Specifically, cops. As in, schadd_'s ruleset almost always contains the following stipulation: Subject: large normal 219: COOL NEW ANIMALS (done!!)

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor

Subject: large normal 218: tweets (bong)

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor

Subject: mini 2048: more songs (game ougre)

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor

.

Subject: mini normal 2042: labeled pictures meme mafia (game over)

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor (though traitor isnt normal in 7:2 anyway )

Subject: mini normal 2027: advice mafia (endgrame)

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor

Subject: mini 2013: the chorus of i'll call b4 i cum mafia (all done)

Nobody will be a cop or a psychologist.

Subject: micro 816-I: spaam (normal game) (gambe over)

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor (im pretty sure traitor is abnormal with 2 mafia anyway).

There can't be a Cop in this game because schadd_ would never put a Cop in ANY of his games.

2: There can't be a Cop-like role because...

...This game would have Follow the Cop if so...in a MICRO.
Espresso was a Doctor. Full, UNGATED, doctor. Not restricted in any way shape or form. DrDolittle was a Goon. Not a mafia power role. A goon. Even after Espresso's N1 modkill, the scum had two nightkills fail--and since I'm a VT and tris claimed VT, you're left with either
-MLB has a PR which can prevent kills by some method, or
-The mafia had some mechanic in play preventing them from making nightkills for at least two nights.
If it is the former, then this game would have proven two roles capable of stopping the nightkill, and you're saying that on top of those two roles capable of stopping the nightkill there's a powerful unambiguous investigative on top of that? Fuck no there isn't.
If it is the latter, then this game would have a proven role capable of stopping the nightkill PLUS the scum being unable to make a nightkill, and on top of that you're saying there's a powerful unambiguous investigative? Fuck no there isn't.

3: There's no scum power role that schadd_ would ever use which could make the setup be balanced.

Again, DDL was a goon. There was a full Doctor in the game. What scum power role could have such mystical strength as to make the game be balanced? Strongman? In a micro game with two nights scum didn't kill? Proven to be pretty damn impossible. Godfather? In a micro with only two scum? Too absurdly broken. Roleblocker? Unless they're multitasking, not strong enough because with an early scumbuddy lynch they can't both kill and block. And if they are multitasking, then they've had two chances to stop town PRs every single night...and you're saying that they managed to twice miss the nightkill and three times miss the investigative?

4: schadd_ MBoS games are notoriously light on power roles.

I frankly was expecting Espresso to be our only PR--there's obviously with the lack of mafia kills the chance that the town has another killstopping role, but there sure as fuck isn't an ungated investigative.

5: schadd_'s investigative roles are notoriously gated.

One-shot, Novice, one-shot novice, even-night, even-night one-shot, and the like, are all the sorts of modifiers that schadd_ would tack onto the PRs...even GIVEN the setup being light in power roles. It is 100% a schadd_ thing to do for a given setup to have, sayyy, a Novice 1-shot Neapolitan as the town's only power role. Ungated Cop when there's a flipped Doctor is about the polar opposite of schadd_'s design.

6: Fundamental game balance dictates any remaining power be incredibly light.

Again, this isn't a Large game. This isn't even a Mini game. This is a MICRO. Where there are two scum; half the scumteam can end up dead on D1. This is a game where every player who is conftown is a player that scum can't deal with especially given we have a flipped doctor. If there's so much as two players who are conftown, scum basically can't win; even having so much as one player be conftown makes the game ALMOST unwinnable for scum especially given the Doctor and whatever stopped the kills after the Doctor died.

7: The claim is obviously not a real one because of the approach behind it.

If you had two innocents and there was only one player uninvestigated, you would immediately opt for voting the uninvestigated player, declare your results unambiguously, and commit in fully.
If you had an innocent and a guilty, you would immediately opt for voting the guilty, declare your results unambiguously, and commit in fully.

Instead, you opted to not try and vote and to keep the results deliberately ambiguous. A big gigantic red flag as to you fakeclaiming.

The utter lack of critical thought behind the claim, because all of these are pretty stupidly obvious and confirmable with very little research, made me immediately jump to the conclusion of town fakeclaiming because scum fakeclaiming would be more likely to do some semblance of research to realize why Cop would be the absolute worst possible role to claim.

[tris]

So, Hopson. Do you want to claim what's up with your role?

[Doctor Hopson]

We are a rolecop with a negative modifier that can give us no result under X conditions (which we haven't got as a result).

We've checked Citceh and everyone except Mastina who's still.alive as VT. That's why we insisted yesterday was a win since we townread Mastina.

I don't think you'd put a rolecop in with two vanilla mafia. Then it's just mod speculation. Any setups like that by the mod?

-hop

[tris]

Has anyone not claimed yet?

[tris]

So, if everyone, if they are town, is a VT, then what has been stopping the mafia kills?

[tris]

In the previous mbos games, there's been parts of the setups which aren't a specific player's role