Newbie 1955 - wikihow mafia [game over]

[the worst]

Yeah, that's what's got me grinding my teeth. I can tell some things have ground your gears at a policy level regardless of alignment. In my delirious reading this morning I'm actually starting to townread Mackenie. Once I'm done note-taking I'll drop a case with my read trajectory. I'd be pretty interested in seeing how you Aisa and emps feel about it.

[the worst]

Ftr, and somewhat for the sake of nostalgia.

Rob and I as a scum team(FuDuzn and Jake).

Compare and contrast folks.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30021

quick break from note taking to say:
can't believe Doc successfully rick rolled us while making a substantial meta case.

[the worst]

Mackenie rvs mode we cast random votes yes but why the 2nd vote on doctor percy why the 2nd vote on me . you two are pinging me but thanks.

I get the rvs, need to get the action underway. I acted hastily in my first post and my intention was to rvs someone without votes. I then noticed my error but figured it was way to soon to start changing votes. Also pointless unless peeps all start jumping on doctor.

This feels like an excuse because there's nothing wrong with having 2 votes on someone during RVS. He seems to be just going along with what cyrus said.

[/quote]

unless emps is scum and deflecting from mack or trying to pocket. btw until i am lynched i will share my thoughts and scum hunt

What do you mean by "deflecting from mack"?

well lts see scum could be in mack,rob or doc so 3 scum leans emps is town . dyrenz null and then you have others not posting hardly at all. however . rob why the vote even if its rvs why didnt you vote in your 1st post or 2nd . you wait till after some one else votes me?

Please explain all your reads.

Cause I usually don’t vote with my first couple of posts. Majority of the time I just do nothing until there’s something to be done.

my read on doctor is solely on the idea that you can only roll town so many times before you scum. mack is now scum due to defending doctor and saying hes town even though doctor hasn't posted much yet and i see you as 50/50 as of now till i get other post from you.

Those reasons are pretty weak. Also, what's your reasoning for rob?

well lts see scum could be in mack,rob or doc so 3 scum leans emps is town.

Funny u should say that. I was thinking Emps scum lean. Based on being mostly afk but making sure to post a number of times without seemingly offering anything.

So my scum lean names my other scum lean as his only town read. Food for thought.

your post would look better if you looked at everything posted before shadeing others

IMO, this looks like you're trying to buddy with emps.

Scum: cyrus
Slight scum-lean: Mack
Slight town-lean: Emps
Everyone else null.

Okay, I've finished my recap. Based on what I've read I'm pretty sure cyrus is scum. Cyrus hasn't stayed on one read the whole time. He seems to vote on whoever he wants and doesn't really push them. In addition, his posts don't seem town motivated and he never follows up on his questions. I also think mack could be scum because he seems to be buddying with emps.

I still think mack is scum. I'm starting to think doc is scummy

it's a pretty light tell, but i get the feeling claim isn't scum with Mack from his posting.

he's obviously not particularly invested but I don't get the feeling he's positioning his scumbuddy. the way he moves from his scumreads being cyrus > Mack into his scumreads being Mack > doc is interesting.
don't really get the feeling it's coming from a place of cheekiness
more like a place of "must pretend to have reads, yes, let's churn through my scumreads"

not sure how much sense this makes. sorry. i've finished notetaking for prior to my replace-in and need to focus. i still really think it's emps; unfortunately, failing that, i think it's probably robb before it's mack at this point.

this game is a lot harder to solve than i thought it might be on my first look at rvs.

[the worst]

this didn't come from my scum pt...



i promise...

[Mackenie]

I'm on uk time btw so just got up. I don't know at what point your supposed to have a vote in play. With a real days day it doesnt seem to matter much to me to have an early vote on. When i'm confident in my read i vote, i'm not voting to appease anyone or because i should.

[Mackenie]

That supposed to say with a 10 real days day.

[the worst]

hi hi! i'm around for a few more hours if you'll be active.

hmm interesting. i think throwing votes around is inherently +town. people start to act more intuitively/in a less considered way when they have votes on them. people also show their true colours in response to wagons. for example scum seeing a townie run up with votes tend to start wanting that townie dead (in this case, i think emps has exhibited this tell with respect to cyrus on d1)

[the worst]

could you throw me your reads atm?

i'd be interested to see who you think the last scum is and particularly whether it's a read you've been developing a while, or something that's pretty new.

if you have a particularly strong townread, mind throwing me a quick explanation of where it came from?

[the worst]

had to psyche myself up for this
VOTE: emps

a part of me is kinda boiling to kick off a big 1v1 today but i think it's really just emps :/
decent case to follow; still at work, still can't realistically make a big wallcase from my notes

[Mackenie]

I'll be honest since the cyrus lynch i've not put much effort in. I really need to have a look at the interactions regarding the claimnow lynch as i doubt scum was onboard until it was inevitable.

[the worst]

from your perspective i suspect there's three pertinent pushes (emps, robb, mine)
be interested in seeing whose you think are more vs. less likely to come from scum or town

i have some pretty strong (unsurprising) opinions about them if that'll help

[Aisa]

Crap. I had the doctor down to either Asia or Mack. I thought Mack's survivalistic/noncommittal style might have been him trying to keep a low profile to avoid the nightkill -- if he was the doctor we could've pretty safely dogpiled emps without hesitation.

emps hasn't played in a way which is geared towards ensuring his survival, so much as a way which is geared towards explicitly not solving the game, if that makes sense. Mack had made more effort to poke the gamestate: he's just doing it in a way which looks like he doesn't actually want to make waves. This behaviour at surface level looked to me like it came from a town power role.

Yeah, I did think you were hoping Mack was doctor. Oh well.

I do think emps is most likely at this point. It looks like scum coasting. Although it's strange how resigned he seems to be. He's got to know that he'll get lynched if the current momentum doesn't change, and he hardly seems to care. Not sure whether that'd be more likely to come from town or scum.

Lucky last:

@Asia one of the huge reasons I pushed for massclaim today is if Mack counterclaimed doctor tomorrow (and he was the last scum, obviously) it would be a fair bit harder to work out which of you was actually the doctor. :< you're townier by play but I don't have a strong read on who I'd trust to vote with or against you. There's one more reason which I'll explain before the curtain falls.

I see. I suppose that does make sense from your perspective. I think you can see why I tried to delay claiming or make Mack go first. Though maybe the claim order wouldn't have made much of a difference, with one power role remaining and everyone knowing what that role is.

otherwise like definitely any thoughts you have on the game fire them off here. Asia in particular, if you feel I'm pushing a scum wincon, talk about what you're seeing. also consider emps' alignment from the perspective that I am scum and he is town: if you can reach a deductive townread on him (by analysing his slot and independently thinking its town) I'd be really interested in seeing what you're seeing. ditto if you can reach a deductive townread on Mack.

Hmm. I don't feel you are pushing a scum wincon for the most part. The massclaim was probably the scummiest thing you did. I thought that if you were scum, it would be convenient for you to be the one pushing this narrative of "one of emps and mack is scum" and redirect the focus off yourself. Plus it would give you useful info for the nightkill.
For the most part, though, you seem town. It also helps that I think Doc was playing more like his town meta than his scum meta.

Yeah I think I can explain why Mack is town. I'll try to explain later. Sorry I can't do this now but I'm a slow writer and rl calls.

@asia who did your slot save each night?

Urghhhh.

I protected emps N1 because I was townreading him. I was townreading Mack even more, but some players weren't and I thought scum might want to have him around as a possible mislynch.

I protected the worst N2. I was torn between him and Dong and couldn't really make up my mind; eventually I settled for the worst because it would have been a pity for him to die so soon after subbing in.

Alright. I was going to play this a little fancier, but I don't think that'll really get me anywhere. The more I read, the more paranoid of you I'm getting. I'll go reread our first game together and some other stuff because I want to check your emotional range as scum. But I'm starting to think your late d1 is consistent with your scum m.o. and I'm worried I might have undervalued your scum skillset.

I'm glad you're saying that. A voice in the back of my mind was saying that I shouldn't discount Rob so easily. But like I went through the trouble of trying to read him once and didn't want to do it again. The apathy is real.

Plus I'm just comfortable reading emps as scum. When I go through the game assuming emps=scum and all other living players town, I just feel this sense of... cleanliness. Like I'm not being fed any misinformation, if it makes sense.

[Robbnva]

You didn’t save me? Hmmph

[the worst]

Yeah, I think we're kind of pivoting to the same outcome (possible exception Mackenie, who is the person I most want to chat with). I'm reaching a point where I can see a very plausible towncase for Mackenie, particularly through the middle/end of day one. His solve and handling of the cyrus lynch is a lot more consistent with inexperienced/uncertain town than it is with inexperienced scum--I don't really have the feeling that he knows it's a mislynch. There isn't any opportunity. He's either genuine, or engineered his handling of the wagon to look genuine (and succeeded resoundingly). Usually that just means he's genuine.

I can also... more abstractly... see a case for town!Robb. I'd forgotten how vexing it actually is to read him with a level of certainty. But his early posting has a fair bit of weight to it in a way which I think is kind of of exhausting to fake. He's been consistent, and while I could see his current exhaustion coming from running out of mislynch steam... I can also see it coming from town who is just frustrated at a policy level. So I think it's not particularly alignment indicative. On the flipside, I think he's showed an holism and lack of opportunism which probably comes from town slightly more often than scum. His m.o. is largely the same (he tunnels things he thinks are scummy as either alignment. he's semi-reserved with his non-policy reads as either alignment) but he keeps making these little comparisons between players and situations which makes me think he's thinking critically about the game.

Again, it's not an explicit towntell. But it's different from what I've come to expect from scum!Robb. Scum!Robb wants his lynch at all costs, where town!Robb actually wants to sort people. He isn't using people this game to get lynches across the line exclusively. He's laying down his cases very passionately, but he's dropping signs that he's reading slots other than the one he's tunnelling.

If we were in a large game I'd call it a null, or a nulltown read. But we have one scum left and I think it's emps. Kinda gotta work with what we've got, you know?


If you want any of this cased out more passionately and verbosely let me know. These are just my towncase synopses, obviously not my scumcase for emps (that comes later, if needed).

The prospect of emps being town, and having to read Mack/Robb correctly, makes me anxious. Which from experience means I'm probably trying to work out which one of two townies is scummier.

[Robbnva]

I wish emps would post stuff.

[Robbnva]

oh empy, you logged in this morning. Where are you?

[Skygazer]

VC 3.02

How to Not Care What People Think

emps (2): Robbnva, the worst

Not Voting (3): Aisa, emps, Mackenie

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 votes to reach a lynch. Day three ends in (expired on 2019-10-02 17:15:00).

[Skygazer]

Prodding

emps

.

[Robbnva]

oh empy, you logged in this morning. Where are you?

[Aisa]

Here we go. Why I think Mack is town:

- He posted a lot in D1. IMO this is town-indicative for a new player. I think a town-newbie could exhibit the kind of enthusiasm Mack has, wanting to see more posts and wanting to share his opinion on everything that's going on. He sounds like he is getting all his thoughts out, not like there is a PT somewhere with other Mackthoughts. I think enthusiastic newbie scum would be more likely to hold back on posting/plan their posts more attentively.
- He generally sounds lucid and aware of who is doing what, what looks towny, what looks scummy; scum sometimes has trouble telling.

Wall ahead:

Spoiler:

Mackenie rvs mode we cast random votes yes but why the 2nd vote on doctor percy why the 2nd vote on me . you two are pinging me but thanks.

I get the rvs, need to get the action underway. I acted hastily in my first post and my intention was to rvs someone without votes. I then noticed my error but figured it was way to soon to start changing votes. Also pointless unless peeps all start jumping on doctor.

This is slightly convoluted but it seems like an attempt to be transparent.

Cyrus: Scum Lean, based on gut as your interactions don't seem quite right.

Doctor: Town Lean, chat seems genuine not forced.

Not enough information on anyone else, need more contributions, also take these with a pinch of salt as I am the definition of a Mafia newb

I think a Doc town lean at this point of the game is a good lean to be having.

Just trying to get some convo outta u. Dont even know what shading is. I could put him to L-1 if we are fishing and i have a minor scum read but dont wanna risk early hammer. My read on u is now leaning town as i dont see that vote as something mafia would do.

Just seen ur other post, rvs on L-2 seems unlikey but what do know.

I don't know how to explain, but this seems town. Maybe it's the "if we are fishing", it just seems like scum would have to make extra effort to decide to put those words into the post. I see it as an example of the lucidity I was talking about I guess.

Unless i missed something i think Dyrenz voted for Rob @SKYGAZER

I think this is slightly more likely to come from town rather than scum. Adds to the body of evidence.

I know it makes me susceptable to day 1 lynch and nightkill by basically being the loudest so far, but lets atleast get some reasoning going.

I'm not sure I agree with him here but it sounds like he's just saying whatever is on his mind.

I was about to point out before seing Kerset's post that you make some good points Cyrus, me and Rob scum would be plausable. If that's the case though wouldn't you get rid of Rob the SE and leave me to flounder on my own, I get why you would go second on me after docs vote but surely Doc would intiate against Rob as the best one of us to get rid of strategically.

Also don't judge me too much based on your experiences with Rob

Again saying what's on his mind.

I won't be on today, at a funeral. Will try and contribute more tomorrow. Doctor is on my case because he knows he's my top scum read. Rob whether you play the same as town or scum is irrelevant to me, I don't see how the way you play can be at all helpful to town. You didn't like Cyrus before the game started and there was no way you were going to let up on him, how did that help us?

Would be easy to jump on claimnow and take the attention away from me but I haven't looked into his possible slip.

Would he decide to say this if he were scum with Claim? That would take a remarkable amount of self-control.

Also before I go

you never answered Doc my question from days ago, why you would target me over an SE when you thought we were a scum team. Now you think the scum team is me and Rob and you still want to rid the newbie scum, why?

He brings up his earlier post again. In the grand scheme of things this question is not that important. To me, it matters that remembered and decided to bring it up again. Maybe scum would think that it's too niche thing to bring up again? Although I suppose I could also see it as an attempt to redirect attention onto Rob.

[the worst]

We find different parts of his ISO towntelling but that's making me think I was probably too critical on his opening posts - townhunting is a flexible sport after all.

I'm not really seeing anything I object to in your post. Just a different perspective to the one I had on my first read, and I'm actually kind of being swung by it given what I saw later in the thread.

Still would like Mack and emps to pop in and weigh into the discussion as much as they can. I'm looking for a certain tell this phase (sorry if we run a little dry on things to discuss without retreading the same ground; I wouldn't mind an emps hammer at any point, but I'd really rather wait for some emps/Mack content first).

[emps]

tw and aisa were cleared by a claim scumflip because their slots wouldnt have been able to get to post 85 in scum pt

mack and rob are both tred and theres no way i become the one person who doesnt get lynched.

i have like no way to win this.

i concede.

[emps]

like honestly how was i supposed to win this fr

[emps]

im good with a pt release rn.

[Robbnva]

tw and aisa were cleared by a claim scumflip because their slots wouldnt have been able to get to post 85 in scum pt

mack and rob are both tred and theres no way i become the one person who doesnt get lynched.

i have like no way to win this.

i concede.

Thank you. Good game