Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[popsofctown]

Ali I have cased him multiple times do you want me to quote my iso every time you ask that?

[Formerfish]

Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:
Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
pretty sure Chennisden is town.

Weve made our cases and posted our reads, just because you didnt see them when they were made and we dont feel like feeding into you right now because you arent explaining shit either and you are the one whos alignment we all know without question, we all have to worry about each other still, unless we are talking about scum, they know shit too, so maybe acting better than us with your reads isnt the best way to get a cohesive town to work together...

[Krazy]

Anyway now that we've had another three pages of self-serving mastina wallposts can we lynch her now?

I could refute her points but I'm pretty sure no one wants to read it anymore than they want to read her original posts themselves.

[PenguinPower]

Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:
Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
pretty sure Chennisden is town.

Weve made our cases and posted our reads, just because you didnt see them when they were made and we dont feel like feeding into you right now because you arent explaining shit either and you are the one whos alignment we all know without question, we all have to worry about each other still, unless we are talking about scum, they know shit too, so maybe acting better than us with your reads isnt the best way to get a cohesive town to work together...

[popsofctown]

Krazy should I unvote mastina for townreading me

there's this tormented part of me that wants to

I'm so confused by it

[Pine]

Anyway now that we've had another three pages of self-serving mastina wallposts can we lynch her now?

I could refute her points but I'm pretty sure no one wants to read it anymore than they want to read her original posts themselves.

lol rite?

[Pine]

Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:
Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
pretty sure Chennisden is town.

Yeah u right

[Krazy]

Krazy should I unvote mastina for townreading me

there's this tormented part of me that wants to

I'm so confused by it

Her reads list is wildly political at this point but do what you want

[Formerfish]

Her reads list is wildly political at this point but do what you want

Have you done a reads list? If so are you able to easily point to your most recent?

[Pine]

My readlist:

Masons: Two of {GreyICE, Iconeum, Katsuki, maybe Pops}
Town: Everyone else
Scum: Mastina?

[Krazy]

My townblock is mostly the same as it was in 7331. There's been a little movement in the bottom half of my pool but not enough that I feel like a new list would be productive.

[Alisae]

Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:
Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
pretty sure Chennisden is town.

Weve made our cases and posted our reads, just because you didnt see them when they were made and we dont feel like feeding into you right now because you arent explaining shit either and you are the one whos alignment we all know without question, we all have to worry about each other still, unless we are talking about scum, they know shit too, so maybe acting better than us with your reads isnt the best way to get a cohesive town to work together...

your push especially makes no sense and I actually scumread it.

[mastina]

Krazy's point that mastina may have claimed bodyguard in order to get her lynch procrastinated is really sticking with me.

It shouldn't since it runs afoul of a flagrant violation of chronology, doesn't match my scumplay modus operandi whatsoever even remotely, and the bg claim was something that should've self-evidently come from the perspective of frustration.

Jingle said this setup is slightly scumsided, that assessment makes me think many town roles and many scumroles to the point where the reviewer wants to hedge.

Slightly scumsided != incredibly brokenly scumsided.

You know where the 'slightly' comes from?

Aristophanes if using his role has a significant chance of being killed, and his role being novice meant there was a delay to it, allowing for him to die before he could use it and even if he did use it, it was most probable for him to kill town using it.

Ankamius's role if using it had a significant chance of getting herself killed especially with a vig running around. While there's multiple ways to play Weak Hider, Vigilantes and Hiders regardless of the alignment of the Vig have an overlapping target pool. (If a scum vig, hider overlap comes from the hider aiming to hide behind town and the scum vig aiming to shoot town; if a town vig, hider overlap comes from the hider aiming to hide behind scum and the town vig aiming to shoot scum.)

My role if it is successfully used guarantees that I die, and I can die due to protecting the scum's nightkill, protecting the vig target, being the scum's nightkill, or being the vig's target--and the town has little in the way of being able to tell which it was.

Two masons is frankly underpowered in a MINI game. In 13 players, two masons is not enough power for the town...and this is a large theme game.

The fruit mechanic is designed to barely help the town, more for fun than to give them an edge--yes it is maybe potentially possible that in theory the town could in spite of the assurances of Pine that the mechanic was designed to resist leashing, that in theory the town finds a way to exploit the mechanic to the maximum.

The town needs every fucking edge it can get for it to be only slightly scumsided and if you remove my fucking role from the equation there's no 'slightly' involved anymore and it tips from slightly scumsided to just an outright guaranteed scum win from a flagrantly blatantly heavily scumsided setup.

The fucking town NEEDS my role for it to be only slightly scumsided.

this is a special game and she would have cleared the maneuver with Pine if she's scum, and that may skew the claim pattern away from her (self!) meta that she only trueclaims roles as scum and therefore she can't be bodyguard because scum bodyguard is rare.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the mechanics between Pine and I.

When I am scum with Pine,

I

don't ask

Pine

for permission.

He

asks ME for permission.
When I am scum with Pine, I don't execute HIS plan.
I fucking help him CRAFT his plan.

I am at least his equal on a scumteam, if not the superior--the game is themed around him, but that doesn't make me suddenly become submissive to his will when he picks me as scum. It makes me utilize my strengths, and my strengths as a scum player are in my leadership. My leadership as scum means that any maneuver I make as scum wouldn't be Pine-approved; any maneuver Pine would make would be mastina-approved.

I kept it warm for you with my butt waiting for you to realize how scummy she is.

You sure have done a shitty job of explaining why since there's jackshit in terms of reasons for me to be scum.

There's forcing facts to fit a narrative a plenty. Where you've reached the conclusion "mastina is scum" and are going out of your way to make everything support that conclusion.

You're not analyzing the facts to find one.

[mastina]

Please go to the mod if you believe any player is not playing to their win condition.

If you're town I'll be doing precisely that but since I fully expect you to flip scum...

[chennisden]

I think I'm way off too.

I think a key point that's supposed to be in there is that you either believe chennis would be aware of the desperado, or not, and PP changed his mind after sleeping on it. Chennis tends to be pretty engaged with his games so it's a hard sell that as town he tuned out of this one.


He stated he's read zero but he -immediately- showed up when I compared his play in starcraft to here.

I tend to be engaged as scum too so I'm not sure what your point is.

[chennisden]

Mastina I literally would've started pushing you ages ago if I were scum.

[Formerfish]

Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:
Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
pretty sure Chennisden is town.

Weve made our cases and posted our reads, just because you didnt see them when they were made and we dont feel like feeding into you right now because you arent explaining shit either and you are the one whos alignment we all know without question, we all have to worry about each other still, unless we are talking about scum, they know shit too, so maybe acting better than us with your reads isnt the best way to get a cohesive town to work together...

your push especially makes no sense and I actually scumread it.

Do what you want, I think that he fucked up with the SS thing and that things happened exactly the way i think they did.

Chenny even said that as scum he would come in make a bantery post or two and then head to the scum pt to see what the plan was.

Thats exactly what he did here. He came in, called SS scum and then bounced when he saw a few people call him out for calling confirmed town scum. Then he came back in later on and did what I expected him to do and act like that whole thing was NBD its totes NAI and i should feel stupid for thinking it is.

So fuck that noise. You can do whatever you want, it would be another example of why your reads cant be trusted and maybe you are overplaying your importance to the town winning this.

[chennisden]

Former, we're not gonna leash the bodyguard when mafia can either A) Have ways around it B) Fake claim around it.

Both of these imply my role is real and town.

Mastina is scum buying time with the claim cause I bet her role is great night action-wise.

1: As previously established, that runs in flagrant violation of my scum meta and in flagrant violation of my stances which I've established for years and have explained in MD elaborated on and talked about in almost every single one of my games regardless of my alignment as to why I've held it.
2: As previously established, this narrative has a blatant chronology problem. My bodyguard claim didn't come when I was under pressure being voted; my bodyguard claim came at a time when I was under no pressure and it was BECAUSE of the bodyguard claim I BECAME under pressure. That's the polar fucking opposite of buying time with the claim.

Also.
3: There is no real case for why I am scum and yet a MULTITUDE of reasons why this is my towngame.

Why is flagrantly violating your stances as scum not a good thing

[mastina]

mastina how come you didn't push jjh once Pine decided he should be NKed instead? oh wait the answer is in the question

jjh wasn't my strongest scumread D1--Aristophanes was. I pushed Aristophanes over jjh because Aristophanes was a stronger scumread.

Plus.

I didn't see people supporting a push on jjh as scum; I did see such a thing for Aristophanes.

jjh wasn't my strongest scumread on D2--he wasn't even my SECOND strongest scumread D2.
Aristophanes and Krazy, respectively, held those roles, and I pushed Aristophanes because Aristophanes was a stronger scumread.

Plus.

I didn't see people supporting a push on jjh as scum; I did see such a thing for Aristophanes.

I only have one vote; when I have more than one scumread, I can only place it in one location.
I often only have so much time/energy available; describing scumreads usually takes more out of me than describing other reads so I usually only describe the scumreads that I am heavily pushing.
I am also a far more reactive player; engaging people on reads they have is easier than engaging people on reads they don't touch on and while jjh wanted me to explain his stance on me, I don't think any other player asked me to explain my stance on jjh. People did ask me to explain my stance on Aristophanes and I did precisely that when I was asked to.

Plus, just because I wasn't pushing him as my strongest scumread doesn't change the fact that I still wouldn't fucking nightkill a scumread.
A scumread is a scumread. It doesn't matter if it's "only" a 'mere' third-strongest scumread; that's still my fucking third strongest scumread. scumastina doesn't kill players she's scumreading, PERIOD, because it runs counter to her objective, because it runs counter to her goals, because it runs counter to what she's planning on doing. She pushes scumreads on players because she sees it as advantageous to push scumreads on those players--nightkilling them REMOVES that advantage and thus nightkilling them means that scumastina is in a position where she is forced to change, shift, her stances artificially and suddenly. It also leads to a higher risk of her being caught for her faked reaction to the death.

Killing a scumread forces mastina to adapt in a way that is hugely suboptimal. scumastina scumreads players because scumreading those players gives her a specific edge she couldn't have without a scumread on those players. What this advantage is varies depending game from game, obv. But there's always an advantage to be had from the scumread and killing the fucking scumread NEVER happens because it removes the fucking advantage because scumastina doesn't see "I wouldn't nightkill a scumread!" as advantageous wifom to push.

Try me; search my scumgames and see where I kill and why.

[mastina]

Titus you're wrong.

Funny it sure seems like Titus has given reasons that you're not countering whereas you haven't given reasons.

I wonder why.

You do know you can't prevent Mastinas death forever.

She doesn't need to, she just needs to prevent it long enough to let me make a successful protection!

So, why don't you help speed it along for more data and you can give me a big fat 'I told you so' if she flips town okay? Okay?

Because lynching a fucking bodyguard and letting scum fucking nightkill Titus means that 'I told you so'?

...Really won't fucking cut it.

There are a shitload of reasons for why I am town.
Every single reason for me being scum is nitpicking which relies on warping the facts to fit the narrative and contains things which are outright falsehoods, even blatant lies, and which run counter to all logic and reasoning.

[chennisden]

I respectively disagree with your self-assessment.

[mastina]

It would be pretty weird play for scum!Krazy to pass on bussing scum!Firebringer, only to bus scum!commuterLLD a short while later.

The difference is, Firebringer is a player Pine didn't really want to die whereas LLD was legitimately someone Pine wanted the town to focus on and thus bussing her was something that the scumteam had no qualms about because there wasn't a single member of the scumteam who would object to bussing LLD.

LLD would encourage it, Pine would encourage it.

Whereas with Firebringer basically the entire scumteam would want to not bus him and keep him alive because he's a player people will write off as "oh he's just anti-town town, just because he's furthering the scum wincon doesn't mean he's scum" and that allows for him when he's fucking scum to just openly further the scum wincon.

[the worst]

Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:
Ali: Why is chennisden scum?
Everyone:


Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
pretty sure Chennisden is town.

ok alisae. who's scum?

[mastina]

I think it's pretty logical to assume scum have either a strongman or a roleblocker perhaps even both. You need something to counter protectives no?

If so then that's proof that there is a fucking protective which is proof that I am town.

Perhaps go into more detail on that.

Pot, kettle, black.
Perhaps you could go into more detail on why I'm scum.
Why wouldn't this come from me as town.
Why would it come from me as scum.
And so on and so forth.

GEE I WONDER WHY YOU HAVEN'T.
MAYBE.
JUST MAYBE.
IT'S BECAUSE THIS COULDN'T MORE FUCKING OBVIOUSLY BE MY FUCKING TOWNGAME.

[chennisden]

Oh no is this where Mastina doesn't read anything and does that catchup thing