Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[profii]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

I need to know why cliff said this when it's obvious a loyal fruit is really useful

[profii]

I feel refreshed and full after last night.

Killing the traitor when gobble wasn't particularly townread is interesting. So I'm gonna iso him to see if I can make sense of that.

But also, that's two nights in a row with only one kill. So either theres been a protective that's quite lucky with targets or theres only one killing faction and no vigs.

I immediately figured this was someone who got fruit so that's cool

[profii]

I dont really recall Cliff advocating for JJDs lynch yesterday, despite having a guilty on him

That's why I unvoted

[Carcalilly]

I like to make my thought process clear so I tend to spew flow of consciousness /don't generally reread a post after I finish typing it.
I think the ones you quoted were where I was also attacking what was being asked of me because the questions were dodgy/indicated odd thought processes from the perspective of the person asking.

I do need to try rereading posts and cutting out every word that isn't 100% necessary sometime though. Want to see how that would go.

-Kirk (an essential word)

You can do that!! Sometimes it gets to the point where you hardly answer the intended question, though.

[Carcalilly]

It's like nobody even pays attention to crumbs.
Or two killers I guess.

Do you have a problem with Hectic here? Do you have him as anything other than a strong townread? I'd like to know why if not.

man you're like, implying you have game changing info and ur trying to gain the benefits of it without even telling us all

[Billy Pilgrim]

Either way, Billy is confirmed town if Cliff is nea.

Are you reading? He claims to be a Loyal FV. Now watch this:

I’m an Informed Miller, there are no loyal modifiers in this game, and there are 4 scum

RD is probably scum too. He knows Cliff is DISLOYAL.

So that's Cliff (100%) + Tchill/Garmr (95%) + RD (80%)

Shit, forgot this, Rick was that real? I seem to remember it being in with all the other bs, and you also claimed doc, so I think you may need to claim here.

[profii]

JJD - without saying who just yet, did you send any fruit n2 ?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Way I see it is as follows:

Cliff said he gave JJD fruit on N1
JJD claims he sent Cliff fruit on N1
Cliff said he sent me fruit on N2
JJD didnt claim a N2 check

JJD claimed disloyal complex fruit vendor
Cliff claimed loyal fruit vendor

Now, going back through JJD's posts, his first post of the day 2051 asks about mail. Now that's probably because of Gamma's flip.

Then in response to Cliff's first post of the day 2099 he asks him if that was all he had to say. He doesn't follow up on this after Cliff's next posts.

Then after JJD claims about 4 roles, then says I'm one of them or am I, Cliff then asks him if something weird happened last night at 2132. JJD just talked about the nk the mail to Garmr and the targeting of Carca.

Then it seems like both of then stop interacting with each other. Then Cliff has his discussion about how useless his role is.

Then 2250 Cliff reasks JJD whether anything weird happened last night.

2255 JJD then claims he doused him, then this weird joke where he simultaneously says if something happened he wasnt responsible for it. But that if it's something that can be expected in a normal then he did it.

Cliff responds to the dousing saying something smelled funny, then JJD claimed he had cabbage and beans, which could potentially be a visitor soft.

2306 jjd claims about 6 roles the last is fruit vendor.

Then 2330 claims hes a disloyal vig that shot Cliff, but definitely made it sound like it was fake, but then 3 posts later claims he shot Garmr, so even thought I was about to read into 2330, I cant because of 2333. He then claims he shot 3 more people.

2478 he then asks the VT to claim, then says hes not but that his role is "limited/gated its virtually useless."

A disloyal fruit vendor (before he outted his role) definitely isn't useless considering he could have pressured someone to find out if they got it, and they could have been confirmed either way. Now it's useless, because assuming it's real everyone knows to say they didnt get anything from him.

I would like Cliff to clarify how he thought his role was negative utility. Because you just ran away from the simple modifier, you didnt want someone to claim vt, and you targeted JJD n1, when he claimed a out 30 pts, and in one instance seemed to claim a limited pr seriously.

I also need Cliff to explain 3128.

3657 JJD returns to the D2 situation with Cliff.

I would like Cliff to answer those questions but I see 3 possibilities.

Cliff telling the truth as loyal fruit vendor and JJD scum
Cliff fruit vendor not loyal, bussing JJD. This is possible because he waited to out that he sent the fruit, but probably unlikely. If he did this, he lied D2 about sending fruit to JJD. Wouldnt worry about that until later though.

I think the lynch has to be between these two today, or at least for me it does. I crumbled receiving the fruit pretty obviously, but JJD claimed not to see it. I dont buy that, this guy sees crumbs that are minuscule, so I think that was him trying to shade Cliff.

Also, from their interactions it makes more sense that Cliff wasnt satisfied with JJD's answer and wanted to have a conf inno when he claimed, so that seems like a better progression than JJD's progression. I dont get how he can claim a disloyal simple fruit vendor is useless.

Even his trying to get off the lynch is like 3 extra fake claims. First he faked mailman, then claimed visitor then claimed disloyal simple fruit vendor. Can we lynch this please? With fire.

I'll walk with you on Sunday, but today you die with fire.

[texcat]

VOTE: JJD

[Hopkirk]

Why would you out a role that gets weaker when outed based on a result on someone who's already obvscum.

-hop

[Hopkirk]

If anyone ever has a problem with hectic later then think about how they don't have one right now. Last chance for scumreads there.

[Hopkirk]

Next two properties after the scumslip are Titus and Eevee. Everyone

remember.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm confused what you meant by that Hop. Who are you saying is obvscum here?

[profii]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

[Garmr]

Next two properties after the scumslip are Titus and Eevee. Everyone

remember.

While Titus is a liability to town because she voted me. I am leaning to her being more town.

[profii]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

[Garmr]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Like a scum fruit vendor?

[profii]

could be either alignment if the purpose is just to confuse results but i would assume it would be scum, yes.

[AaronFrost]

Next two properties after the scumslip are Titus and Eevee. Everyone

remember.

While Titus is a liability to town because she voted me. I am leaning to her being more town.

This makes her a liability how?

[profii]

Just ignore that bit, garmrs narcissism is showing again

[AaronFrost]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Pardon my newb-ness but what do you mean by reflexive role?

[Garmr]

Just ignore that bit,

garmrs narcissism

is showing again

Nah I'm not a narcissist just something about this game that bring out the worst in people. Don't you agree Porfii....

[Garmr]

Cough cough the dead thread of last game where you can't be confronted cough.

[profii]

Cough cough the dead thread of last game where you can't be confronted cough.

try as you might

[profii]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Pardon my newb-ness but what do you mean by reflexive role?

it's probably a bit of a stretch. Reflexive can be if you are reflexive and i track you, then your reflexive role would kick in by itself

so in the example, JJDs reflex would be in the scenario of receiving a fruit, to give a fruit back... which is weird so probably unlikely.