Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think this is easy now. Jjd is claiming a tpr, but its weak. Cliffs claimed tpr is more valuable. We lynch JJD today, if he flips town then we kill Cliff tomorrow instalynch style. If JJD flips scum we leave Cliff alone for at least a day and see if anything else comes from it.

I'm not seeing what's taking so long here. Look I already claimed VT. And I'm not nearly as good at this game as I'd like to be. But JJD already killed the utility of their role if its town so if town, hes VT. So if we get JJD wrong we power lynch Cliff tomorrow.

Honestly am I so dense I'm missing something here?

Pedit: I think Bob and I are on the same page here. Look JJD is flailing here. There I said it so hes now 15% more likely to be scum. JJD if you're town you should accuse me of flailing so you're now 30% more likely to flip scum.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

My guess is either JJD is going to flip as a reflexive role, which explains Cliff's n1 fruit claim or there is another FV somewhere to dilute the power of Cliff's role.

Pardon my newb-ness but what do you mean by reflexive role?

it's probably a bit of a stretch. Reflexive can be if you are reflexive and i track you, then your reflexive role would kick in by itself

so in the example, JJDs reflex would be in the scenario of receiving a fruit, to give a fruit back... which is weird so probably unlikely.

Reflexive isn't even a Normal Modifier, nor is Mirror a Normal Role.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I got around to reading Cliff v JJD right before going to bed last night.
Billy did the research I would have wanted to do, thanks!

I think JJD is scum here. Cliff bussing isn't completely out of the question, but I think it's unlikely. A scum flip definitely doesn't conf Cliff -- that term gets way too overused IMO.

If you think JJD is scum here why aren't you hammering?

[profii]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

I'm not hammering until we know why cliff didnt pursue a guilty yesterday?

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

I'm not hammering until we know why cliff didnt pursue a guilty yesterday?

Eh that makes sense. I can understand why he wouldn't but I'm providing my own explanation.

[profii]

I'm happy for him to see reactions and then answer we dont need to rush - the lynch will be jjd or cliff today so let's get it right

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

I'm not hammering until we know why cliff didnt pursue a guilty yesterday?

I will respect this, and will delay my self-hammer for .. what? 6 more hours??


Naaaah. As much as I hate to disappoint profii here, a promise is a promise, and when even guys like dave side by scum the town deserves to be punished for it's stupidity.

VOTE: JJD

P.S. Lynch texcat too. She can't get to LyLo. And if I had multiple Vig shots I would have shot every single one who voted me.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Unsubscribing and logging out of JJD.

[Garmr]

@Profii - what the fuck are you waiting on here? I cant see any scum motivation in what you're doing, but its sure as hell weird.

I'm not hammering until we know why cliff didnt pursue a guilty yesterday?

I have a reason he could of as town. But I don't want to accidentally feed scum a way out again like I did the worst in another game.

[profii]

Hmm probably scum
Otherwise youd help out with that 2nd fruit issue which is unresolved

[davesaz]

I got around to reading Cliff v JJD right before going to bed last night.
Billy did the research I would have wanted to do, thanks!

I think JJD is scum here. Cliff bussing isn't completely out of the question, but I think it's unlikely. A scum flip definitely doesn't conf Cliff -- that term gets way too overused IMO.

If you think JJD is scum here why aren't you hammering?

Measure twice, cut once / check your work before publishing / etc.
It was pointed out that there were two holes in Cliff's story -- not pursuing the guilty and not understanding that the role would be positive for town.
I kinda wanted answers to that.

[Billy Pilgrim]

A50 did this naked AtE in a game where he an I were scum partners then subbed out before he got hammered. It got his slot townread after the sub out. Now in that game he didnt self-hammer, but I dont remember if he had the chance. And it started out that two people from that game (tchill and flippy) were here, but now they both subbed out. So I really dont know what this flip is gonna be but the AtE felt like scum A50 using a strategy that worked last game.

If hes town, then this is my second game in a row with a town self-hammer. Garmr and Profii were both in that one.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Cliff still owes answers to those questions but if this flips green (get it, since I made a big deal about this as a slip earlier) then we power-lynch him tomorrow.

[davesaz]

when even guys like dave side by scum the town deserves to be punished

For future reference, if you are town here you're forgetting that I tend to waffle a lot <some of which is to get reactions btw> -- if it's not voted then it's not decided.

[Billy Pilgrim]

And obviously, if this is a scum flip it doesn't clear Cliff. And yes, I'm aware that if Cliff is under suspicion so am i.

[bob3141]

what is it with people self hammering. Your not dead until your lynched and if you know your town how is lynching you self playign to your win condition.


Was still pleanty of debate to be had. Any one hammerign woudl ahve been tehre scum claim

[davesaz]

If this flips green, then scum have a FV (may or may not actually be Cliff) or Billy's also scum btw.

[davesaz]

Not to mention, if JJD is green, and the role he claimed, and he didn't reveal N2 target, then I'm gonna be a bit annoyed.

[profii]

Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings

Players	Status	Role	Death
Kop	Alive
Billy Pilgrim	Alive
Cliff Booth	Alive
Rick Dalton	Alive
Sharon Tate Alonzo	Dead	Town Macho	Lynched Day 2
Hectic	Alive
EeveeLution Army	Alive
Gamma Emerald	Dead	Town Mason Mailman	Killed Night 1
Judge Joseph Dredd	Alive
Elements	Dead	Town Macho Watcher	Lynched Day 1
Titus	Alive
Hopkirk	Alive
roosterfoster gobbledygook	Dead	Mafia Traitor Rolecop Neighbor	Killed Night 2
Carcalilly	Alive
Garmr	Alive
Tchill13	Alive
davesaz	Alive
profii	Alive
bob3141	Alive
Skellen AaronFrost	Alive
YouAreGreat texcat	Alive

If this flips green, then scum have a FV (may or may not actually be Cliff) or Billy's also scum btw.

Not to mention, if JJD is green, and the role he claimed, and he didn't reveal N2 target, then I'm gonna be a bit annoyed.

Indeed

[bob3141]

JJD self hammer is bit annoying as i was about to unvote.

While i had time to look at all this claim and counter claim closely.

[bob3141]

Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings

Players	Status	Role	Death
Kop	Alive
Billy Pilgrim	Alive
Cliff Booth	Alive
Rick Dalton	Alive
Sharon Tate Alonzo	Dead	Town Macho	Lynched Day 2
Hectic	Alive
EeveeLution Army	Alive
Gamma Emerald	Dead	Town Mason Mailman	Killed Night 1
Judge Joseph Dredd	Alive
Elements	Dead	Town Macho Watcher	Lynched Day 1
Titus	Alive
Hopkirk	Alive
roosterfoster gobbledygook	Dead	Mafia Traitor Rolecop Neighbor	Killed Night 2
Carcalilly	Alive
Garmr	Alive
Tchill13	Alive
davesaz	Alive
profii	Alive
bob3141	Alive
Skellen AaronFrost	Alive
YouAreGreat texcat	Alive

If this flips green, then scum have a FV (may or may not actually be Cliff) or Billy's also scum btw.

Not to mention, if JJD is green, and the role he claimed, and he didn't reveal N2 target, then I'm gonna be a bit annoyed.

Indeed

After he said he was disloyal there wasnt much point if he is tellign the truth. As his role would have been burnt.

At worst he is either scum or we have scum on a 1v1

[AaronFrost]

I'm seriously getting to a point where I'm going to start blacklisting people who self-hammer as town, because it happens way to fucking often. So if by some miracle JJD isn't scum I'm gonna be pissed.

But yeah I can't see him flipping town here. Self-hammering this early in the day when he knows he's not escaping a lynch is 100% a scum move.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Not to mention, if JJD is green, and the role he claimed, and he didn't reveal N2 target, then I'm gonna be a bit annoyed.

And what would be the point of revealing my second target exactly? They didn't receive the fruit.. so? They're not a GOON. That's it.

JJD self hammer is bit annoying as i was about to unvote.

Sorry, but I usually think THEN vote, not the other way around.

Btw, did you receive any fruit by any chance? No?? Good. You STILL COULD BE scum. (Just making dave happy)

@Aaron: Talk to the hand. As in; I couldn't care less.

[Carcalilly]

I have a migraine and I just woke up so all I can comprehend of this situation is that either JJD or Cliff is scum- one or the other- for sure.

why don't we just lynch both? Are we arguing who goes first or something?