Undertale Semi-Open 1.1 - Snowdin Snowdown

[Nachomamma8]

I'm sicker than shit ATM which is making me crankier than I would be typically. I am actively working against it at the moment but if I fail please know that it's not intentional and it's not directed at you, is just a bad mood leaking into the thread.

[Nachomamma8]

notice whats wrong here?

My thought is that the best way to play the game is from a neutral standpoint; you can form a strong towncore by attempting to hunt together and taking a couple shots at the scumteam and getting a ton of information early in the game (and because of the investigative aspect, scum are put in a shit position in having to try to avoid getting TOO much towncred or it fucks them later), which requires slowing down, posting a lot of content early game, engaging and listening to people. That didn't happen.

I think the pacifist line is the poorest for two reasons. The first is that the scum strategy to play it is remarkably straightforward - kill active people until the game is dead or the voices alive are bad influences. You can fake distance your partners p much all you like because you won't be forced to go through with it, and you don't have to attack townies and deal with righteous fury because you're sparing people and pushing back against momentum usually isn't worth it. Secondly, there are no real chances to reassess. Generally, when I am in a tunnel, it takes a whole lot of work to pull me out of it, but you can push people hard enough where they can produce genuine reactions and everything's all good. However, if I'm townreading scum pretty strongly, it's much harder to pull me out - scum usually don't super fuck up in thread, so the only way I'm able to truly reassess is when my working POE is proven wrong. Pacifist doesn't allow for either of those so we just gotta hope that we didn't fuck up in initial reads and that's it.

However, that's the corner we've played ourselves into. We're on Day 3 and we don't really have a ton of info to work on, no one seems to have a lead that's vaguely promising, and taking two shots or even one shot with no info is setting ourselves up for failure. So... pacifist it is.

[Nachomamma8]

I’m pretty sure with these crap kills that there’s scum in the big three which makes me want to spare only the little three

HEAL: Oversoul

I'm saying this mainly for Wisdom's benefit (since apparently 5+ years of playing together and a "100% read rate" isn't enough for him to understand something very fundamental about my approach as scum), but, if I were lurking scum, I would never ever allow either of these kills to be made after the Rakan spare D1. I don't play fancy or cute when lurking scum; I shoot people who can catch me and get me lynched and especially in this format there's basically no world where I end up not taking a shot at Wisdom at the end of N1 and I can't say that there's anyone here who would overrule me on it.

THAT BEING SAID, I agree. I don't think any of your "big three" should be spared - I think those three players + Xayah have the largest scum ranges and if we're going Pacifist they basically don't get touched.

[Wisdom]

Your conclusion doesnt follow. Shouldn't you want a flip to help you with the things you mentioned?

[Wisdom]

And really, you say you want pacifist and youre healing oversoul over me?
bull. You don't do this as town.

[Nachomamma8]

youre healing oversoul over me

????

why does this surprise you in the least bit???

[Wisdom]

THAT BEING SAID, I agree. I don't think any of your "big three" should be spared - I think those three players + Xayah have the largest scum ranges and if we're going Pacifist they basically don't get touched.

so youre saying town you cant say im town here?

[Nachomamma8]

(your daily remember that you're a pain in my ass and would be dead if i was scum)

[Wisdom]

unless i was a pacifist supporter so you felt safe

[Nachomamma8]

unless i was a pacifist supporter so you felt safe

i felt safe with someone who was calling me scum and shutting me down at every turn?
do you really believe that?

[Wisdom]

if ive spared your buddy and im gunning for pacifist, sure

[Nachomamma8]

if ive spared your buddy and im gunning for pacifist, sure

if you spared my buddy then i'd shoot you and try to get spared myself for the auto-win
so. again. would still shoot you.

[popsofctown]

Spare Votecount 3.0

Nachomamma8 -

Elements ------

mastina --------

Xayah ---------

Oversoul ------

(2)

Oversoul, Nachomamma8

Wisdom -

Chemist1422 -

Not sparing:

- (5) Elements, mastina, Xayah, Wisdom, Chemist1422

Fight Votecount 3.0

Nachomamma8 -

(2)

Wisdom, Elements

Elements -----

mastina -

Xayah -

Oversoul ----

Wisdom -

Chemist1422 -

Not Fighting:

- (5) Nachomamma8, mastina, Xayah, Wisdom, Chemist1422

<3<3

3>3>

Nachomamma8 slowly shook his head as he looked straight down. It was too hard to look at Nymph's lifeless body.
"I was gonna make them a shirt as a present. It wouldn't even have sleeveholes. It was gonna break all the rules. I was gonna bust Nymph out of detention to give it to them too."
"It's hard to spend so much time looking for snowdrake when the friends I'm in touch with are dropping like FLIES."
In an usually fitful burst, Nachomamma8 roundhouse kicked the holiday tree, exposing the hefty wooden bucket beneath it. The water crystallized along the rim may as well have been tinged with blood.
"They wouldn't want us to fight though! They'd want us to make sure this never happened again! Nymph was always known for their dreams, nothing was too far to them! So how can we say building a stronghold is too far for us, because we've gotta be a bunch of squabblers? HUHH!?"
He drove his fist into the earth in front of him, but since his fist was much more of a wingtip and was very soft, it failed to make any sort of dramatic sound. "Go get some saws from my place. Let's start working on a ladder. With mouthholds for accessibility."
There's wasn't anyone still alive who would require that accommodation, but nobody seemed in a hurry to point that out at that particular moment.

With seven alive and unspared, it takes four to make a decision.
(expired on 2019-10-31 21:06:42)

[Wisdom]

why are you not sparing me, nacho? you still didn't answer that. I dont buy for a second you townread oversoul more.

[Wisdom]

And why do you feel this is doomed and you want to go pacifist onstead of getting a flip? That also makes zero sense.

[Nachomamma8]

oversoul > elements > wisdom

oversoul has horrible scum range. elements is pretty new and also has horrible scum range.
you actually have the ability to play scum.

i do think that the way you've sorted me here feels genuine, but because we went with PACIFIST, haven't really seen you push people and deal with them in your typical way. it's also a 31 page game. not a lot of shit has happened. you have to do more to get into "eat a hat" range, i can't just read your mind and know your alignment.

[Wisdom]

excuses. You know this is town me and even tried to spare me on a previous day.

[Nachomamma8]

And why do you feel this is doomed and you want to go pacifist onstead of getting a flip? That also makes zero sense.

read my post again. i did not say that we were doomed, i said that we fucked ourselves hard if we wanted to go neutral - makes no sense to try to lynch scum at this point when 1) lynching town twice means we lose and 2) early game most definitely did not go great.

[Nachomamma8]

excuses. You know this is town me and even tried to spare me on a previous day.

you

really

want me to be scum, don't you???

step back for a minute. realize that you just called me scum because i ordered my townreads incorrectly and realize that this conversation wouldn't be happening if i were scum because you would be dead. i would have shot you night 1. or i would have shot you night 2 when ginngie is telling people to look into me and you're still calling me scum. i would not have shot nymph. i would have shot you.

[Wisdom]

early game went fine, we spared two pretty town people. Even this solely shows you dont have the mindset you should have.

Who said we need to lynch twice? One flip is what you should want given the thought process youve described.

[Nachomamma8]

early game went fine, we spared two pretty town people. Even this solely shows you dont have the mindset you should have.

Who said we need to lynch twice? One flip is what you should want given the thought process youve described.

sparing rakan was dumb. not a whole lot of people said anything interesting. there is not really too many people engaged in the game.
d2 was much better buuuut ginngie couldn't hold it in her pants and so here we are, playing the boring way.

but yes, having a different opinion of gamestate health than you when you were the leader and i was not means that i am scum.

one lynch could be enough, sure. but because i don't feel confident in any particular scumreads and i don't feel confident everyone will suddenly rise up and engage each other in spirited dialogues... pacifist.

[Nachomamma8]

but yes, having a different opinion of gamestate health than you when you were the leader and i was not means that i am scum.

and i'm confident you'll take this as a complaint, so here I clarify:

we played the game how you wanted to play it. i thought there was a better way, and i am disappointed it didn't happen the way I envisioned when i initially rolled town. that is not your fault, and it doesn't mean the way that we chose to play was wrong - my opinion differs from yours.

i think pacifist is the worst path because of what i outlined - it doesn't mean i think it is super easy for scum to win or that following it is anti-town like you seem to be implying, it simply means that i think it's the worst path.

[Wisdom]

sorry i dont see how you give up on scumhunting, declare we go for pacifist even though you don't like pacifist and while theres still time to change that, and heal a mediocre townread on top of that.

Nothing youre doing even remotely resembles what i expect from town you.

[Nachomamma8]

i don't like that im not killed

something is wrong here

HURT: nacho

if you were right, you would be dead.
you're wrong, that's why you were alive.

[Wisdom]

"i would do x as scum" is commonly argued by scum after the chance has passed. Its not a good argument.