Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[davesaz]

Titus is someone you never leave for last. I figure a lot of people know that but just to be sure it's out there.

[Hopkirk]

Problem with the strategy is obviously that a scumroleblocker results in a false guilty.

If cliff is town there's a good chance he's roleblocked.
If cliff if scum he claims he must have been rbed after we lynch the townie who he says he gave stuff to.

Cliff remains the best lynch, then we lynch titus.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Dave, I need you to help me through why Bob's claim gets less weight. As I remember, Cliff just asked everyone who got fruit. Bob said he did and Cliff then confirmed he had sent it. I dont see why that gets less weight.

scum!Bob could know he was Cliff's target if scum have a role like watcher or tracker, or even voyeur for that matter. Or he could guess he'd be the target as someone who hadn't claimed a role, since Cliff can only target simple. It's risky, but scumteam are in a very good place and even better if they get someone "confirmed".

We didn't even know for sure there was a FV in play when you initially claimed receiving it. Scum could still know from N1 results, granted, but the probability is much less than it is when they know who to examine N3.

I figured the watcher, but yeah voyeur works too, but you think that Bob would have been a priority for scum? I mean tracking Cliff makes sense, but do scum get trackers in normals?

[profii]

Is there a benefit to mass claim prior to dealing with cliff?

At the moment given the tracker died last night, I am target number 1 I'd guess... we do have a doctor claim so scum have to consider that, therefore a mass claim probably makes the docs job harder / scum choices better

[Hopkirk]

If we lynch cliff then we don't MC. Otherwise we need to sort of massclaim.

[profii]

I feel like cliff is scum and we dont lynch him now, scum will win for sure

But if he is town and we mislynch him now, we could recover - it almost seems like a calculated risk

[Hopkirk]

The idea would probably be something like get 2-3 VTs to claim, get cop if any to go on Cliff, and if anything unexpected happens commit to lynching Cliff.

[AaronFrost]

Worst case scenario if we lynch Cliff today is that we end up in LyLo tomorrow but that's only if there's 6 scum remaining. 7 total scum in a 21 player game seems like too much, even with a traitor.

I don't like how eager tex is to end this day when we have plenty of time left. I get not wanting to waste time but I would hardly say the day is stalling right now.

[texcat]

Spoiler: Aaron does not like anything I do

I'm going to vote for Cliff whenever we're ready. No one ever knows the vote count. Worst case is that we get a conf town out of the deal. In the meantime,

VOTE: Garmr

tex could be Cliff's partner is he flips scum. Don't like this bizarre attempt to distract from the Cliff/JJD situation.

Why the vote on Garmr?

I feel like scum is fine with Cliff being the lynch. I thi k that's either because he was determined to be able to be sacrificed, which is consistent with what happened yesterday, or it's because he is going to flip town. If he flips scum, then texcat is probably leading scum candidate tomorrow for trying to redirect the lynch. If he flips town I dont know where that leads us. I'd like a a swer from hopkirk on his progression vis-a-vis me and I think we're still waiting on answers from Rick and Lilly about fruit.

Huh? I did park my vote on Garmr while waiting to vote for Cliff until everyone had a chance to post. I would hardly characterize that as redirecting the lynch.

VOTE: Cliff L-2 I think

Cliff

, if you are town, can you confirm that you sent fruit to Kop on N1? He said he did not receive any fruit.

Don't like this vote either.

Worst case scenario if we lynch Cliff today is that we end up in LyLo tomorrow but that's only if there's 6 scum remaining. 7 total scum in a 21 player game seems like too much, even with a traitor.

I don't like how eager tex is to end this day when we have plenty of time left. I get not wanting to waste time but I would hardly say the day is stalling right now.

First he doesn't like my vote on Garmr because he thinks I'm redirecting the lynch(!). Then he doesn't like my vote on Cliff. Now he's characterizing me as being overly eager to lynch Cliff. Something stinks. It might be some weird confirmation bias, but I don't like it.

Aaron, I don't think I am over-eager, but I am ready for day to end. I don't see what more we can hope to accomplish today and I think that things will be clearer when we've resolved Cliff.

I will continue to argue that we should lynch Cliff and I don't like that Billy seems to be arguing against lynching him. And I don't like that Billy says that Profii and Dave agree with him.

[bob3141]

The only person i would be voting to lynch this day is cliff. I dont like how billy is trying to push teh lynch away from cliff. Billy confirmed town only works if cliff flips town. If he flips scum then it all depends why scum sent fruit to billy. Eitehr billy is town and they were looking for vt. So they could kill pr or to try and pass him off as town.

If billy is town teh logical thing would be to lynch cliff. As that woudl add 2 confirmed townies to carc and dave. With hight liekly town profii.

As opposed to keeping someone who simply cant be trusted. Cliff has speant all of this day trying to distract us from JJD guilty on him.

[bob3141]

I see a few players keep putting out outlandish ideas why but simplist reason is simply said he got fruit not knowing that jjd was disloyal. I cant see any reason in such situation town would ever lie.

If cliff didnt get anythign he would never of said he got fruit. He woudl of said he got no nothing. If jjd was scum even if he got cliff lynched he woudl of been caught out once cliff flipped

[bob3141]

If we have vig in the game. They should shoot tonight that way we can verify there could be vig in the deck.

[bob3141]

Is there a benefit to mass claim prior to dealing with cliff?

At the moment given the tracker died last night, I am target number 1 I'd guess... we do have a doctor claim so scum have to consider that, therefore a mass claim probably makes the docs job harder / scum choices better

Could be worthwhile mass claiming next day but think it migth be best for us not mass claim until after cliffs lynch.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I hate lynching town prs and particularly ones that can confirm townies. I like working backwards from townreads. So maybe tex doesn't like what I'm saying, but dave legit townread Cliff, explicitly stated it, and Profii seemed to be at a decent townread of Cliff at the time I made that post, but hes seemed to go back and forth on it since then. You may not like what I said, but I just said things that were clear at that time. So I'd like to not lynch there, but whatever. I'm not voting there, because I think we're killing a town pr. If I'm wrong oh well, I guess I get to eat rope tomorrow.

[bob3141]

Titus is someone you never leave for last. I figure a lot of people know that but just to be sure it's out there.

My analysis of day one votes prety much marks titus out as scum.

All day he voted for elementis. From the 12th to teh 18th. Never movign off . Was teh one taht joined after cliff (100 posts) latter.

Then when the lynch happends he parts his vote on cliff. Only after his wagon long since died. He never even tried to push cliff even though he was now claiming he didnt like elemtes flash wagon even though he had been on it that wagon for 6-7 days

So he only unvoted when elmentes lynch became near certain. As i can see that the last 5 voters were town. Before that was even and that another town.

When he voted for cliff he says he doesnt want to join flash wagon even though thats on aaron. So he votes for cliff and never says anything more until elemtesis hammers himself and he then votes elementes

looks very much like vanity vote that he parked on cliff. If they do as i think both flip town. I wonder what this means for aaron. Is aaron scum or did titus just want to get on vanity wagon

[Carcalilly]

I'm a simple loyal fruit vendor. I sent fruit to jjd on n1, billy n2, and bob n3.

you could've proven your innocence if you gave one to me or Dave, you realize?

[bob3141]

I cc the porn star

I am a fruit detecting detective, I checked you night 0. You're a vendor, not an eater. Oh and I'm also an alien.

my gut is also telling me that titus is actual the scum fruit vendor.

Cliff a good and titus teh fruit vendor

[bob3141]

cliff was prob hunting my role. why I said it prob doesnt hurt with so many outed pr already when i said i got fruit.

I was trying to fish if my role was VT in day 2. Even though it was well know billy had calimed vt. He went about asking if it was mw that claimed vt. Looked very odd at teh time and felt to me liek scum fishing if i was vt too. So they could narrow down and night actions.

[bob3141]

Reaming players after cliff lynch.

Garmr, Hopk, billy, aaron, texcat, titus, billy, kop, eve, Hectic, Rick, Bob

dave and carc confirmed . Proffii nearly confirmed he might even catch scum in action.

Now rick claimed doc and we do have evidance for one, unless macho are red hearing.

Garmr, Hopk, billy, aaron, texcat, titus, billy, kop, eve, Hectic, , Bob

I cant see titus being town. so if cliff is scum thats upto 3 in that pool left.

Garmr, Hopk, billy, aaron, texcat, billy, kop, eve, Hectic, , Bob

Hectic i think is towna nd i know im town

Garmr, Hopk, billy, aaron, texcat, , kop, eve,

thats upto 3 in 7

[bob3141]

Going to start makign day 2 and 3 vote counts so i can analysis teh remaining poe using them.

[bob3141]

But from the lack of posts since day one. And kop complete lack scum hunting. Think he just prety much sat on aaron most of that day.

Was absent most of day 2 (VLA). No vote day 3 but it did only last 3 days.


But only one post in the last 3 days. So from what little we have ( his day one0

I do think kops a strong candidate for a 3rd scum

leaving up to 2 scum left.

If cliff, titus, kop are scum then i think there interactions with aaron look highly suspicous.

So if they are my instincts are telling me he is 4th.

If there is another mafia as. Ive see some sayign the game could have upto 6 mafia with traitor beign one.

Not to sure who i think is last one

[profii]

This one

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=74615

I'm totally wary of kop not posting as I got duped by his slot in this game as I mentioned on day 1. Vig please resolve this

[davesaz]

I'm a simple loyal fruit vendor. I sent fruit to jjd on n1, billy n2, and bob n3.

you could've proven your innocence if you gave one to me or Dave, you realize?

If he's simple as a modifier, he can't vend to anyone with a non-vanilla role. Neither of us would receive fruit in that case.
This fits in with thinking the role was useless in a role madness game.
I'm not sure about "Town Macho" because it's unclear from the role name by itself whether Macho is intended as a role or as a modifier. My guess is that it's intended as a role, and it doesn't matter now that the role is flipped...

For future reference to game designers, if it was intended as a modifier it should be "Macho Vanilla Town".

[davesaz]

Kop definitely needs to go at some point, I'm uneasy about him too.

[bob3141]

raw day 2 vc's

26th

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook, Garmr, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
JJD - Rick(2101)


27th

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook, Garmr, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
Cliff- tchill (2151)
Hopk - Aaron (2214), garmr (2216)
Garmr- texcat (2285)
Texcat - garmr (2329)

Unvote - Rick(2136)

28th

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook,, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093), Titus (2355), Hectic (2398)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
Cliff- tchill (2151)
Hopk - Aaron (2214),
Garmr- texcat (2285)
Texcat - garmr (2329)

Unvote - Rick(2136)

29th

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook,, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093), Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , garmr (2428)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
Cliff- tchill (2151), carc (2484)
Hopk - Aaron (2214),
Garmr- texcat (2285)
Texcat - garmr (2329)
Eve- JJD (2490), Rick (2510), billy (2516)

Unvote - Rick(2136)- garmr (2427)

30th

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook,, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093), Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , garmr (2428)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
Cliff- tchill (2151), carc (2484)
Hopk - Aaron (2214),
Garmr- texcat (2285)
Texcat -
Eve- JJD (2490), Rick (2510), billy (2516), bob (2535), aaron (2586)
Rick- carc (2595)
Aaron - bob (2602)

Unvote -

1st

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook,, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093), Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , garmr (2428) , billy (2641)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
Cliff- tchill (2151),
Hopk -
Garmr- texcat (2285)
Texcat -
Eve- JJD (2490), Rick (2510), billy (2516), , aaron (2586), texcat (2618)
Rick- carc (2595)
Aaron - bob (2602) , billy (2639)

Unvote -

2nd

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook,, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093), Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , garmr (2428) , billy (2641), alonzo (2653)
bob4131 - (2): - profii, Alonzo
Cliff- tchill (2151),
Hopk -
Garmr- tchill (2679), alonzo (2717)
Texcat -
Eve- JJD (2490), Rick (2510), , , aaron (2586), texcat (2618)
Rick- carc (2595)
Aaron - bob (2602) ,

Unvote - carc (2708), alonzo (2715)

3nd

Tchill13 - (4): - gobbledygook,, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, cliff (2093), Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , garmr (2428) , billy (2641),
bob4131 - (2): - profii,
Cliff-
Hopk - tchill (2838)
Garmr- tchill (2679), alonzo (2717) , dave (2784), texcat (2788)
Texcat -
Eve- JJD (2490), Rick (2510), , , aaron (2586), texcat (2618),
Rick- carc (2595)
Aaron - bob (2602) ,
Alonzo - cliff (2759), bob (2806), garmr (2808)
Dave - garmr (2795)


Unvote - carc (2708), garmr (2764)

4th

Tchill13 - (4): -, Hopkirk, , Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , , billy (2641),
bob4131 - (2): - profii, alonzo (2903)

Hopk - tchill (2838)
Garmr-), alonzo (2717) , dave (2784), texcat (2788)
Eve- JJD (2490), Rick (2510), aaron (2586), gooble (2867)
Alonzo - cliff (2759), bob (2806), garmr (2808), proffii (2925)
Gooble - hopk (2911)
Proffii - alonzo (2929)
JJD - carc (2925) ,


Unvote - carc (2708), alonzo (2881), hopk (2906), JJD (2924)

5th

Tchill13 - (4): - Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , , billy (2641),
bob4131 - (2): - profii,
Hopk - tchill (2838)
Garmr-), alonzo (2717) , dave (2784), texcat (2788)
Eve- , Rick (2510), aaron (2586), gooble (2867)
Alonzo - cliff (2759), bob (2806), garmr (2808), proffii (2925) , JJD (2937), aaron (2978)
Gooble - hopk (2911)
Proffii - alonzo (2929)
JJD - carc (2925) , titus (2945)
Titus - eve (2971),


Unvote - , JJD (2924)

6th

Tchill13 - (4): -, Titus (2355), Hectic (2398) , , billy (2641),
Hopk - tchill (2838)
Garmr-), , dave (2784), texcat (2788)
Eve- , Rick (2510), , gooble (2867)
Alonzo - cliff (2759), bob (2806), garmr (2808), proffii (2925) , JJD (2937), aaron (2978), titus (2991),
Gooble - hopk (2911)
JJD - carc (2925) , titus (2945)
Titus - eve (2971), alonzo (2981)
Aaron - Hopkirk (3007)


Unvote - , JJD (2924)

7th

Tchill13 - (4): - , Hectic (2398) , , alonzo (3055)
Hopk - tchill (2838) , dave (3066) , cliff (3112)
Garmr-), , dave (2784), texcat (2788)
Eve- , Rick (2510), , gooble (2867)
Alonzo - cliff (2759), bob (2806), garmr (2808), proffii (2925) , JJD (2937), aaron (2978), titus (2991), billy (3025)
JJD - carc (2925) , titus (2945)
Titus - eve (2971), alonzo (2981)
Aaron - Hopkirk (3007)
Kop- Hopkirk (3064)
Cliff - Hopkirk (3091)


Unvote - , JJD (2924)

8th

Tchill13 - (4): - , Hectic (2398) , , alonzo (3055)
Hopk - tchill (2838) , dave (3066) , cliff (3112) , alonzo (3167)
Garmr-), , texcat (2788)
Eve- , Rick (2510), , gooble (2867), hopkirk (3186), texcat (3225)
Alonzo - , bob (2806), garmr (2808), proffii (2925) , JJD (2937), aaron (2978), titus (2991), billy (3025),
JJD - carc (2925) ,
Titus - eve (2971),
Cliff - Hopkirk (3091)


Unvote - , JJD (2924)

9th
Tchill13 - (4): - , Hectic (2398) , , alonzo (3055)
Hopk - tchill (2838) , dave (3066) , cliff (3112) , alonzo (3167)
Garmr-), , texcat (2788)
Eve- , Rick (2510), , gooble (2867), hopkirk (3186), texcat (3225)
Alonzo - , bob (2806), garmr (2808), proffii (2925) , JJD (2937), aaron (2978), titus (2991), billy (3025), gooble (3248), dave (3253) , cliff (3262)
JJD - carc (2925) ,
Titus - eve (2971),
Cliff - Hopkirk (3091)


Unvote - , JJD (2924)