Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Luca Blight]

And I don’t see how I was ambivalent about your entrance - I straight up stated on a few occasions that I didn’t like your entrance. It felt contrived to me.

I also said I thought your Kerset push was decent, and your recent posts in general have a more townie feel to them.

[Luca Blight]

This question is becoming a little dated now, but I’m still curious about it, so if you wouldn’t mind....

I think Luca is entirely wrong about most of their reads

i am bothered

Obviously we disagree about Frost, but could you elaborate on the others?

[rb]

well i found frost scummier than skitter, you thought i was scummy and suji actually struck me as kinda town?

in those 3 reads i was bothered

at this point i have no real stance on suji, on re-read they're just kinda...'fine' - actually a slot that warrants more analysis imo

i guess i don't have any real issue, and maybe i'm confusing you with someone else. i thought we'd played as town/town multiple times? i don't actually know anymore ~_~

[rb]

@Luca: opinions on Kerset, since they're now the largest wagon in the game?

I had just said a few posts before that Kerset is a slot that I could see being scum but I don’t want to lose sight of Nom atm. Speaking of which, what do you think of Nom?

And could you also answer my question in 368?

i think nom is probably town?

unless they're scum and buddying, which isn't impossible but also seems unlikely. i'm pretty sure kerset is scum, but i also didn't really not nomx3 throwing much suspicion kerset's way prior to me doing so. do you think they're likely scum?

[rb]

didn't really note*

[Luca Blight]

The only game I recall playing with you was mini 1991, in which I remember wrongly townreading you early on for a similar casual style of play.

Regarding Nom, I had an early scumread on her based on the setup talk and what seemed to me like feigned/overplayed ignorance, and partly meta due to the fact I could easily townread her early on in our previous game which hasn’t happened here. Her recent posting has picked up a bit which is why I unvoted, but I’m still not getting massive Town feels from that slot.

A person of interest for me right now is Fetchd. I’m not sure i fully believe what he’s saying about his reads on me and Skitter. Until I questioned him about it i had assumed he no longer scumread me as he hadn’t mentioned me for ages, but when questioned he maintained it and made a pretty weak excuse for why he pursuing his scumreads. I feel like it would have been natural to see some progression in these reads either way, but this doesn’t appear to be the case.

Thoughts, rb?

[Luca Blight]

For why he isn’t pursuing his scumreads*

[rb]

i iso'd sirfetched

they're doing multiple pro-town things on day1, so i think the chance they flip scum is low

[rb]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

and why we shouldn't lynch something smart

[Luca Blight]

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Why do you townread Billy?

[Wooper]

Sirf is liek my strongest townread. I bit them last night and they tasted like town.

[Luca Blight]

What other reads do you have, Wooper?

[nomnomnom]

Why do I get scumvibes from Wooper?

I swear to god I wanted to townread the slot because I've played many games with ducky where I soulread him and wanted to see how it develops but I have this sinking feeling that ducky isn't town.

[Wooper]

What other reads do you have, Wooper?

other than all my reads? zilch, why?

Why do I get scumvibes from Wooper?

I swear to god I wanted to townread the slot because I've played many games with ducky where I soulread him and wanted to see how it develops but I have this sinking feeling that ducky isn't town.

suspect it's absence of townvibes; I don't care about this game yet and may not until there's fewer people alive

[Something_Smart]

how is my argument in bad faith?

kerset talked mechanics, then did nothing but make vague complaints about town sucking, with zero effort to do anything about it, and is now just OMGUS voting me

does that seem like a town-aligned progression of play to you?

...yeah? Why wouldn't it be?

Do you think scum-Kerset thinks "I'm gonna complain without doing anything, and then I'm going to OMGUS whoever pushes me, and then everyone's going to townread me!"?

[Something_Smart]

That's why I thought it was in bad faith. You conflated weak play with scum play.

[nomnomnom]

how is my argument in bad faith?

kerset talked mechanics, then did nothing but make vague complaints about town sucking, with zero effort to do anything about it, and is now just OMGUS voting me

does that seem like a town-aligned progression of play to you?

...yeah? Why wouldn't it be?

Do you think scum-Kerset thinks "I'm gonna complain without doing anything, and then I'm going to OMGUS whoever pushes me, and then everyone's going to townread me!"?

This assumes that scums do not display emotional traits and I'm not sure how I feel about this reasoning because ironically this is the angle I use as scum to get townread, so...

[Something_Smart]

how does outright asking Aaron to clarify the reasons for their townread of Luca equate to manipulative?

It doesn't. Skitter is the one who said it was.

[Something_Smart]

This assumes that scums do not display emotional traits

No, I'm suggesting that scums (with the exception of Vorkuta, hi Billy ) don't intentionally make weak plays in order to be townread. So Kerset playing like they did is a byproduct of their experience level and playstyle, even if they do happen to be scum.

[Something_Smart]

what i wanna know is why something smart scumreads billy

I don't.

[nomnomnom]

This assumes that scums do not display emotional traits

No, I'm suggesting that scums (with the exception of Vorkuta, hi Billy ) don't intentionally make weak plays in order to be townread. So Kerset playing like they did is a byproduct of their experience level and playstyle, even if they do happen to be scum.

lol this is so weird to read this while being conscious of me having a history of being extremely weak plays on purposes to be townread

[Flubbernugget]

Second point is much more indicative of someone that's snarkily inviting people to do things, rather than buddying. That's how I see this interaction in particular.

maybe buddying is the wrong word exactly

but he's like ~trying to get aaron to be comfortable with him and his train of thought and get him to question his own reads and vote with him ~ so idk what to call that

if rb is scum i don't think aaron is ever

So persuasion is scummy now?

[Flubbernugget]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

Luca doesn't look like scum in the slightest.

[Flubbernugget]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

How about you state your points against me instead of attempting to elicit reasons from others?

i think your play lacks direction, despite knowing that you're usually a capable and matter of fact player as town who states what they think and pushes in the direction they believe will hit scum.

it's possible that i'm overestimating your townplay, or that you just aren't really pinging heavily on a scumread yet and so aren't the town player i'm used to. nothing you've said really pings me as you being either alignment, which is why i said earlier "i hope Luca's scum because then this game would make a lot more sense"

it also confused me to see you, a player who's relatively familiar with my game to be ambivalent about my entrance. it's like you don't want to acknowledge anything about my play either way, which is not the kind of player i'm used to. all that said, there's feasible reasons you might not be playing the same way i remember your town game, and kerset is like a beacon of obvscum

"luca scum is an easy solve" to "yeah luca is scum" doesn't feel like a natural progression

[Flubbernugget]

Also the only reason I'm being scumread is for actually doing things expected of town so good luck wagoning that.