Open 768: C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Wickedestjr]

Hey everyone!

Vote: Blatant Scum

It's so blatantly obvious...

[Wickedestjr]

And by 'everyone', I guess I mean Nibbui and Bingle lol.

[Wickedestjr]

I count as an everyone.

Found the septuple voter.

Also good to see you again Wicked. This game should have a fair bit of nostalgia with you in it.

Agreed. Happy to be playing with ya again.

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: the worst

[Wickedestjr]

Hey everyone!

irrelephant, TTTT, urap and friends disliked this post

How did Nibbui feel about it?

[Wickedestjr]

the worst, why are you opting to keep your Nibbui scum read close to the vest? I'm curious what you're trying to accomplish with that vote, if anything.

Oh, right, DD is scum, and will probably replace to an alt halfway through the game. I will give up on this read right before being the game losing mislynch.

So it is written, so shall it be.

How do you feel about this bandwagon on the worst? Any page 5 reads?

[Wickedestjr]

the worst, why are you opting to keep your Nibbui scum read close to the vest? I'm curious what you're trying to accomplish with that vote, if anything.

Oh, right, DD is scum, and will probably replace to an alt halfway through the game. I will give up on this read right before being the game losing mislynch.

So it is written, so shall it be.

How do you feel about this bandwagon on the worst? Any reads?

[Wickedestjr]

First strong read achieved, btw. I will say it's not on any Scandinavian countries, but cannot comment at this time as to whether the subject is a person of Scandinavian descent.

I just checked. I'm 38% Scandinavian according to 23andme. Just thought you should know that.

[Wickedestjr]

Is this game typical of the current site meta? (Or typical weekend play?) Personally, I'm surprised with how slowly it's progressing - several people appear to just be waiting for something to happen without making effort to help the conversation.

Speaking of which:

Menalque is the sort of dude that asks a couple pointless questions that don't amount for anything, then votes to lynch because you don't bother answering them.

I think this attitude is anti-town. His 'pointless questions' have accomplished more than your lack thereof.


And, for the record, this is mostly why I'm still voting for the worst. He's someone that I expected to be helping push the game forward. But instead he is sitting on his naked vote from page 3 and isn't making much effort to sort Nibbui or convince others to support him. It's just enough to make it look like he's scumhunting without actually adding any momentum to the discussion.

This is my first game in ~2 years so I was excited to get the ball rolling. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like this is a bad start.

[Wickedestjr]

wicked i was in your last game i think! it was a fun one

Yep

wicked do you like town or scum more?

It's close, but I would say I prefer town.

[Wickedestjr]

Wow it feels like 10 minutes ago I was complaining about the game moving too slowly and now I'm perpetually a page behind.

[Wickedestjr]

teacher, how are you reading skitter right now?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked u might be scum

...

[Wickedestjr]

ok y am i wrong?

Because nomnomnom secretly told me so.

or why was that a '...' worthy statement?

That was just my way of saying "yes, go on...".

You haven't really said anything about me.

[Wickedestjr]

anyway, I just felt like Wicked was only coming to thread to ask pointless questions to apparently random people he picks up, not really getting on what is being discussed, while also vaguely talking about the game state.

I feel like this is a pretty careless. I guess you can make anything sound bad if you word it in the right way.

There are several people asking questions, so I don't know why you're suddenly singling me out. Just because I'm not asking questions about things that you are interested in doesn't mean that I'm not genuinely trying to figure things out. What question(s) in particular struck you as pointless?

"not really getting on what is being discussed" - I feel like this is a meaningless statement that could apply to most of the playerlist. What in particular did I not discuss that I am supposed to discuss as town?

"while also vaguely talking about the game state" - this isn't even a point against me, this is just a statement or acknowledgment of something that I did, as if you're just adding filler here...

[Wickedestjr]

Because nomnomnom secretly told me so.

I mean this might be true from ur pov but from my pov this doesnt really mean much

What do you want me to say skitter? You asked me to explain why you're wrong. But you didn't give any reason to think I'm scum in the first place. There's nothing to refute.

[Wickedestjr]

Originally I voted the worst for this post which felt slightly forced to me. I also thought an early bandwagon would be beneficial. As far as timing goes, I voted him as soon as I saw his entrance, so I don't see what's wrong with that. If I had seen it sooner, I would have voted him sooner.

And I think you're misinterpreting my comments about game speed. Earlier when I expressed concern with the slow game pace, that wasn't me saying that I specifically wanted like 10 more pages to magically appear at lightning speed. I was just concerned that the game wasn't transitioning out of RVS as quickly as I would have liked it to (irrelevant of page count). I feel like it's just now starting to make healthy progress, even if it's at my expense.

And I wasn't complaining about how fast the activity got afterwards, I was just expressing my surprise if anything...

[Wickedestjr]

I can explain my teacher question later. That's one where I want to discuss with him a bit before I share what I'm thinking.

[Wickedestjr]

He's someone that I know very little about, but I saw something in his conversation with you that I think might be AI.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, I'm back. Gonna try catching up on all this tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

Only got through pg. 23. Not gonna finish this catchup tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

Yeah I had to stop reading because I was starting to lose focus.

I'm feeling pretty good about Menalque and skitter.

Right now, I've got my eye on teacher and Bingle - probably gonna vote one of them once I am fully caught up.

[Wickedestjr]

Iirc, teacher accused Norway of buddying him by falsely mentioning an RVS wagon. There was never an RVS wagon on teacher. From teacher's pov, I don't see why Norway-scum would intentionally make something up like that that's so easily refutable. It's hard to believe.

This post also felt weird to me for some reason. It's the reason why I was asking him about his skitter read earlier.

And I'm not crazy about Bingle's vote for skitter. I've played with him a few times and can't remember him playing like this and refusing to share reads like he was doing. His play overall feels off to me.

[Wickedestjr]

Where are you at right now?

[Wickedestjr]

And ftr, I have much more that I want to say and do once I have more time. These are just my sparknotes answers.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm finally caught up. More to come soon.

What do I need to do to become featured in the manga?

[Wickedestjr]

Nibbui btw I'm curious - have we played together before? You remind me of someone... but not any of the alts that were mentioned.

[Wickedestjr]

Ughhhh I'm trying to both process everything that's happening and articulate my thoughts, but my brain has stopped working. Monday's my busy day, you guys are gonna have to wait til Tuesday, sorry.

Basically this is where I'm at:


TOWN
Menalque/skitter
Norwegian/Nibbui

everyone else
Blatant Scum

the worst
teacher/Bingle

SCUM

[Wickedestjr]

What do I need to do to become featured in the manga?

sell your soul to my political agenda

btw i really can turn you into a popstar and stop that wagon on you if you accept this deal

look at my face please

i only mean serious business.

Nibbui, I don't even care about becoming a popstar. I came to this dating website looking for love.

Spoiler:

Hi I'm date Moss. Nice to meet me.

[Wickedestjr]

Time to give this game the effort it deserves

[Wickedestjr]

Alright well good night everyone

[Wickedestjr]

this made me snort
i'm at work
thanks :///

Lol I'm glad

This has honestly been one of the most amusing game threads I've ever read. Just wish I didn't have to miss so many of the fun convo's...

Spoiler:

[Wickedestjr]

...aaaaand I'm caught up now. Glad I finally became a pop star.

[Wickedestjr]

i'm really not sure you're town but i am ABSOLUTELY sure i love you

where's your head at on people's alignments?

Likewise (on both accounts) <3

This is still pretty much where I'm at:

Spoiler:

Ughhhh I'm trying to both process everything that's happening and articulate my thoughts, but my brain has stopped working. Monday's my busy day, you guys are gonna have to wait til Tuesday, sorry.

Basically this is where I'm at:


TOWN
Menalque/skitter
Norwegian/Nibbui

everyone else
Blatant Scum

the worst
teacher/Bingle

SCUM

...except I've liked Norwegian a little bit more the past few pages and, upon reflection, I'm feeling a little bit more paranoid about you actually.

My reads are a lot of gut right now but I'm working on a more in-depth post right now to explain where my head is at.

[Wickedestjr]

40 pages worth of thoughts incoming:

I agree that Menalque's overly-confrontational behavior on page 6 is unlikely to come from scum (especially with how early in the game it was). His read on teacher here is one particular thing that I noted as feeling pretty genuine to me and in general I haven't seen anything in his iso that's rubbed me the wrong way.

Normally, I’m hesitant to town read players with strong scum games, but I started townreading skitter during the lengthy exchange with Bingle. I haven’t really noticed anything in her iso that’s looked polished - instead it feels like she’s genuinely thinking/processing the game. I like some of the specific comments she made to Bingle and I feel like "Jingle this isn't a fight you're going to win" doesn't come from skitter-scum pushing Bingle-town. And I also really don't think they're partners. I need to check out her award winning scum game to be safe though.

I mostly like Norwegian, I don't get the sense that he is trying to earn town cred or really cares about how he is perceived. From the last few pages his humor comes across as a relaxed mindset. I also feel like his frustrations with Menalque are more likely to come from town - especially the random shoutout at the bottom of this post. The one thing that makes me wary about Norwegian is his vote for BS. I feel like that could have been a safe choice for Norwegian-scum and I wonder if Norwegian-town would be more inclined to vote someone more active that he could actually converse with - I was surprised he didn’t vote for me at that point.

Norwegian

why did you choose to vote BS instead of me at that point?

Nibbui’s a slight town lean. A large number of his posts have felt genuine to me and it does feel like he's actively trying to ‘solve the puzzle’ so to speak. Having said that, there are a few small things that I dislike about his playstyle. First, the frequency at which he is switching his vote around rubs me the wrong way - like for example, this L-1 vote is kinda random. In general, I think seeing someone changing their mind is generally townish given the additional effort required, but it feels like too much from Nibbui right now. Gives himself a lot of flexibility and it’s less effective in pressuring people.

Nibbui

can you show me a town game where you played like this? Secondly, a couple bad posts in the mix, like this one.

The quiet people {Emps, Egix, Almost50, DrDolittle, Blatant Scum} are all still pretty neutral for me. I might start by meta'ing Emps because it seems like he's inexplicably a consensus town read here, even though I personally haven't seen anything telling.

Nibbui

, can you explain why Emps was your strongest town read at this point? Blatant Scum is a slight scum lean if anything, but that is purely a gut feeling.

I’m enjoying the worst’s presence here but am inclined to believe he is scum and going to continue voting him for the time being. Before signing up for this game, I actually read a few other games and this happened to be one of them. His opening in that game (where he was town) felt vastly different from this game and that’s also the reason why I was bothered by him just sitting on his naked Nibbui vote early on, not doing anything with it (see my explanation for voting him here). I like that, in this post he admits to not seeing anything AI from Nibbui prior to the vote, but his explanation that he was probing him to get a more comfortable read feels off to me; I don’t feel like he really did the probing that he’s giving himself credit for here. And there are a few other posts that I didn’t like so much:
*Here, I think the question he’s asking is clearly answered in the post that he’s asking about.
*First paragraph of this post seemed like a pretty poor defense.
*Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like he does a rapid flip on his Bingle read from saying he doesn’t agree with a Bingle scumread to saying Bingle is outright scummy a page later.

The worst

, can you explain that?
*Saying he’s trying a 5-6 out of 10 doesn’t seem to mesh with being excited about the playerlist a few days ago.

TW

why just a 5-6 out of 10?


I’m not sure about Bingle - I haven’t gotten to interact with him as much as I would have liked. His style here feels different from my prior experience with him as town. Part of me feels like he’s trying to appear very comfortable with his high activity and self-proclaimed ‘obtuseness’. I’m having trouble understanding the motivation for Bingle-town to play this way. He also felt off to me in his exchange with skitter. See here, here, and here. In particular, I didn’t see strong enough reasoning to warrant the confidence that he expresses throughout his exchange with her. I’m not sure how to read into the eventual unvote.

Bingle

can you explain what you meant about ‘manipulating the gamestate’ earlier?

Your reaction to me voting your strongest townread wasn't particularly "I think he's wrong/scum" nor "Am I wrong?" but more "Is this actually a viable mislynch?"

Can you walk me through why you felt this way? How are you feeling about skitter in the present time?


I’m still suspicious of teacher. This post is the only one that has really felt townish to me. I still dislike his buddying accusation towards Norway (that Norway made up the fact that teacher had an RVS wagon). It just doesn’t feel well thought out to me. If anything, I feel like Norway is more likely to make a careless mistake like that as town.

Teacher

, to answer your question here, I don’t think Norway would intentionally make that error as town. I also don’t think he would intentionally make that error as scum. Wouldn’t it be easier for Norway-scum to come up with some legitimate-sounding reason to townread you if he really wanted to buddy you? Why would making something up be the best course of action for Norway-scum? That just feels like a stretch to me.

The other thing that feels strange to me is this post. You were asked hypothetically how you would approach skitter if you were scum. It feels a little weird to me that you claim you would have approached her completely differently from how you actually approached her in this game.

Teacher

can you expand on why you would approach skitter the way you described there?

[Wickedestjr]

. I was just concerned that the game wasn't transitioning out of RVS as quickly as I would have liked it to (irrelevant of page count). I feel like it's just now starting to make healthy progress, even if it's at my expense.

I kinda felt like the game was out of rvs already at that point

Agree to disagree.

You complained about the game state but when things were being discussed you avoided talking about it and just kept doing your own thing that doesn't really look gamesolvy.

Again, you say that I avoided talking about things that were being discussed but can't give any specific examples of things that I avoided talking about that I should have been talking about. Your point has no meaning.

hi back

Spoiler:

re 783, DEFINITELY! - do you think it's scummy?

Yes.

why tho

Because I believe being overdefensive is scummy?

I'm generally a very defensive player. If I see someone saying something that's misleading/untrue about me, I want to completely nip it in the bud.

im super bummed google and site does not index question marks.

You should have tried running a Bingle search.

VOTE: wickedjester
hope this is not a vanity vote

Why me? I'm not sure exactly what a vanity vote is.

wicky that's a deeply political read list

I don't think so? I'll admit it does feel a little bit weird to me that several other people suspect Bingle/teacher like I do (including you iirc) but I don't see why you're saying that.

wicked teacher's reads are ~ same as yours why do you consider him scum?

Not sure where you're seeing that.

Wicked would you be amneable to voting jingle?

Possibly, but I want to see how he responds to my thoughts/questions about him. I still prefer my vote on the worst right now.

[Wickedestjr]

why do you enjoy voting town?

There are a lot of reasons.

• The thrill of putting an innocent life at risk.
  
• This town isn't big enough for the two of us.
  
• Your dog pooped in my front yard.

I could go on...

[Wickedestjr]

i am so confident that wicked is scum but i don't really want to 1v1 him because it would just be too abstract

Let me know when you want to have a serious conversation about the game. To be honest, it feels like they've been pretty one-sided (me answering your questions but you ignoring mine).

[Wickedestjr]

Well I asked you a couple questions in my big post. And I'm also curious why you're suddenly confident that I'm scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, it’s me Blatant Scum

Time to give this game the effort it deserves

[Wickedestjr]

*First paragraph of this post seemed like a pretty poor defense.

it's not a defence. it's a read on skitter's push on me.

This was the part that I was talking about:

like
i'm town. you're placing a bizarrely high onus on me to do towny things. doing towny things early d1 is +survivalism and in this gamestate -sorting. so it's not valuable for me to do towny things early d1.
you're then attacking me for... not doing towny things with no wariness of what my motivation might be.

No mention of skitter here. Instead it appears that you're arguing that looking towny is at the expense of 'sorting'. And that seems like a giant stretch.

i admitted like, within a page of saying i didn't see scum motive from bingle that i see scum motive from bingle. first quoted post was not serious.

Wat. Really? This wasn't serious:

don't really see scum motive from bingle either rn so i don't really agree with a scumread on him but i still wouldn't say i townread him necessarily. i'm being stingy so far.

Where's the joke? Or why just say something that you don't actually believe? I don't get it.

when you posted your readlist it was political - your reads aligned largely with postcount & noise levels, except for your scumreads which were the popular scumreads.

I see that my scum reads are popular choices right now - and I'm well aware of the fact that that's usually a bad sign.

But it's not my job to stop scumreading someone just because everyone else is. And it's also weird of you to be pushing this point so hard given that you seem to suspect teacher/Bingle too. What do you think of the people that started scumreading teacher/Bingle after I did?

when you posted the bigpost i was struck that you're not trying to look for things that look towny or scummy - you're townreading noisy people and shading your scumreads

This is just completely wrong. My entire post is filled with examples of things that I found towny or scummy. And two of the people that I'm scum leaning are you and Bingle who are two of the 'noisiest' players in this game.

like there's no trajectory there; i don't see how you've formed these reads. there's no sorting there; i don't see how you're trying to press your reads to do alignment-indicative things. it's a big noisy post and i think it's engineered as an attempt to look towny.

You're making a lot of vague/incorrect statements here and viewing my post in a vacuum.

[Wickedestjr]

Normally, I’m hesitant to town read players with strong scum games, but I started townreading skitter during the lengthy exchange with Bingle. I haven’t really noticed anything in her iso that’s looked polished - instead it feels like she’s genuinely thinking/processing the game. I like some of the specific comments she made to Bingle and I feel like "Jingle this isn't a fight you're going to win" doesn't come from skitter-scum pushing Bingle-town.

Eh... I don't know about this read on Skitter. Though i might add that i do slightly lean on town!Skitter v Scum!Bingle, it's not like i'm ready to townbin Skitter already just based on her convo with Bingle.

What makes you eh?


Nibbui, thanks. To be honest, it kind of feels like you're giving his scum game very little credit though - but I'll look out for those things you mentioned. And I'll have to check out that Rainn game you mentioned too.

I am lazy and I don’t have unlimited time

Why would I go read a game myself when I can get the cliffnotes? If I need to I can always check the game (and sometimes I do) so there’s a relatively strong incentive not to lie

This feels slightly inconsistent with this.

[Wickedestjr]

Lol what's up?

[Wickedestjr]

You don't wanna do that. Trust me.

[Wickedestjr]

Why would you want to?

[Wickedestjr]

'Dumping everything into the thread all at once' was my whole intention.

I wasn't planning to be (basically) a non-entity for the first 40 pages of this game, but that's one of the reasons why I felt obligated to do that. That's just always the way I've approached substantial catchups like that. I assumed that people would want to know everything on my mind and I had a lot of thoughts that I wanted to share.

It wasn't intended to free me from 'progression'. Not at all. My reads are still in flux - and they will be for a little while. It felt good making that post because it freed me from 'being behind', if anything - I was fully caught up at that point and put everything on the table.

[Wickedestjr]

I feel like a lot of the suspicion against me in this game boils down to the way I approach the game. To me, I enjoy this game for the 'puzzle' of trying to figure out who is scum. Honestly even though I am supposed to 'play to win', oftentimes I focus more energy on figuring out who scum are then I do with actually interacting with scumreads and convincing people to work with me. Because that's not the part that keeps me coming back to this game.

I enjoy reading games from the outside just as much as I enjoy playing in them.

[Wickedestjr]

And I just posted my big reads list yesterday. I feel like it's a bit early to say that I'm done progressing my reads. I didn't do so much today because I needed a break, I spent a lot of time thinking about this game yesterday.

[Wickedestjr]

the problem is that i can't tell if it's scum-indicative or playstyle-indicative

Only one way to find out (it's the latter)

what i meant by that is more that i don't know how you got from ~beginning of game~ to ~readslist you posted~

Ehhh still not really understanding what you mean here, sorry. ~beginning of game~ I started at nothing. Then *things* happened and I posted my readslist which was based on those *things*. That's how I got from A to B.

[Wickedestjr]

teacher, please talk about this when you get the chance (if you haven't already)

The other thing that feels strange to me is this post. You were asked hypothetically how you would approach skitter if you were scum. It feels a little weird to me that you claim you would have approached her completely differently from how you actually approached her in this game.

Teacher

can you expand on why you would approach skitter the way you described there?

[Wickedestjr]

Then *things* happened and I posted my readslist which was based on those *things*. That's how I got from A to B.

i know my point is that i didnt' see the journey from a to b.
i just see you arriving at b

so i'm a little wary because i don't see how you got there

I had to think about this for a minute, but now I think I see what you're saying.

Why do I, as town, need to show the journey that my reads took throughout the game? The only thing that felt important was explaining where my reads are now and sharing my reasons for having said reads. I don't benefit at all from showing the path that each individual read took to get to that point.

I could share those details if you say, "yes Wicked please do that". But I'm going to sleep now.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm around for next two hours or so.

[Wickedestjr]

Is Almost50 = AngryPidgeon ???

Is that the AP he's referring to?

~

And what is the Elli tell?

[Wickedestjr]

I also didn't realize that there could be two scum in this setup.

Just for the record: that's a ~23% possibility and certainly changes things. This is a strange setup.

[Wickedestjr]

We're all VLA for the next 120 min

Note: The Watch has just started on my favourite movies channel. I am watching you, Jamarcus (and they don't know you're an alien yet)

P-edit: No, AP is AP (stands for Austin Powers)

Elli tell is when you're active in other games but not this one, and it indicates you're scum in this one.

-Lol it felt like it for a minute there...

-Haven't seen it. Might have to check it out

-Ohhhh. I was about to say - you don't seem anything like AngyPidgeon.

-Got it.

[Wickedestjr]

1. I don't appear very comfortable, I am very comfortable. See: FotM. Town Jingle, almost 0 reads. Being useless as fuck. Town. Comfortable. See: Fogport. Scum Jingle, murderbonering for A50/pops, Scum, Comfortable. Mini 2070: Town Jingle, solving the game, confirmed. Comfortable.

The last time I wasn't comfortable while playing mafia was Paris mafia, when a conftown refused to listen to a mech solve and lost us the game by being absent and refusing to listen/vote in MYLO.

2. Look at the game I linked to Nibs earlier, if you don't see a motivation for Town Bingle to be purposefully obtuse.

Thank you, I'll check these out later.

3. Manipulating the gamestate means just that. We were in a position where there was echo chambering on easy and surface-y reads. I wanted to see what would happen when I pushed someone generally accepted as town for no discernible reason because surface level reads beget surface level reads and I wanted more meat.

I see what you're saying.

4. I got the sense skitter was townreading me during our interactions, but

she wasn't trying to convince me I was wrong on a Nibs push, even when I didn't show any reasoning for it

. Instead, 401 gave me very scummy vibes of not caring about Nib's actual alignment.

I'd like if you went a little deeper on this one. Can you tell/remind me what gave you the impression she was townreading you?

I feel like the bolded kinda speaks for itself. And I read her trying to convince you here.

[Wickedestjr]

What do I need to do to get a pagetop?

[Wickedestjr]

what is your read on nomnom wicked? i've mixed feelings in the slot. i don't like how she only comes to steal pagetops and don't post enough game content for us to chew on.

Right, it's always tough to read gimmick accounts like her's. I kinda wish you hadn't said anything though - I wanted to see how long she would keep it up without being called out for it. But now the cat's out of the bag.

[Wickedestjr]

Nibs, where are you located?

in my house?

i don't really get what you mean with that question though

i have several theories but not a definite one

Yeah but which part of your house?

[Wickedestjr]

Hmm

[Wickedestjr]

Pagetop?

P-edot: MNOOOOOO

[Wickedestjr]

Speaking of time zones and posting patterns, the worst are you from Australia?

[Wickedestjr]

I had a bunch more that I wanted to say tonight, but didn't get the chance with my computer updating.

Pre-emptive TL-DR for tomorrow is that I don't like the Egix bandwagon. I think the case is pretty weak, not a huge fan of Nibbui/Norwegian's votes in particular and I even felt like some of Egix's responses today felt slightly townish. I feel like people took some very minor things and are acting like it's suddenly super compelling evidence.

Starting to feel good about Almost50 too.

[Wickedestjr]

I don’t even know where to begin with this trash.

[Wickedestjr]

Nibbui suspected Egix SO MUCH that, because I disagreed with the wagon, now I am scum and he is town. And DDL suspected Egix SO MUCH that I am now scum for disagreeing with it (but oh now he’s not so sure anymore).

All because I had him as null 30 pages ago? And even though I am not the only one who disagreed with the wagon?

And Nibbui don’t pretend like you have an understanding of my scum tells. Everything I’m being accused of in this game I have been accused of in previous town games. You’ve never played with me and if you’re town, you’re really lousy at reading me.

I had limited time to post last night. The priority was expressing my disapproval of the Egix wagon because he is the one who got to L-2 and for very weak reasons. What the hell did I need to say about teacher and Bingle? Give me a friggin break. This whole game people have been assigning a scum motive to every single thing I do because I’m not playing the way that they think I am supposed to play. Like I’m just an awful scum player who can’t help oozing scum tells with my every post.

I once played in a game where mastin-Town was so certain I was scum that she said “there is no universe” where I was town and she tore apart my every post. Well I was Town in that game and I’m Town in this one too. It feels like half my posts are being misconstrued, nobody is reading a damn thing I say, and voting first/asking questions later (or not asking any questions at all). Nibbui isn’t making an effort to sort me, he has jumped to this wrong conclusion and hasn’t made any effort to question me and he’s ready to lynch me.

~

I have put more effort into this game than it deserves. I’m stressing about it more than I should and need to step away.

Mod: I am V/LA for today and tomorrow.

Scum team feels like TW/Nibbui + maybe Flippy or teacher

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Nibbui

Every accusation you’ve made towards me has been awful awful awful

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, I'm shoulder.

~

I'm basically caught up. I have a couple things I need to take care of today, but I should have a few hours here and there throughout the day to devote to this game. I know I have a list of things people have asked from me - none of it has been forgotten.

My first pagetop

[Wickedestjr]

Ok I'm actually here now.

This post also felt weird to me for some reason. It's the reason why I was asking him about his skitter read earlier.

And I answered your question. But you never answered 353's last question that I recall. You said you would in 355 after I answered. I answered in 381, but then you never come back to it that I saw in a quick ISO skim?

I partially explained it in this post. I wanted you to reveal your skitter read so I could get a better sense of the genuine-ness of this post.

Can the board give meta-reads of Bingle (1997)?

I’ve played with Bingle maybe four or five times? We were both town in every game that we have played together (with the exception of a marathon game where he was scum). As I said before, his play here feels different from how I remember his town meta. The 'obtuseness' is not something that I remember seeing from him before. Having said that, he mentioned some other games where he tries this ‘obtuse’ approach and I haven’t gotten the chance to check ‘em out yet.


P-edit: I actually spent three hours ISO'ing CJ. Tough read; I learned nothing.

[Wickedestjr]

Me trying to join Nibbui's justice crusader:

Spoiler:

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Nibbui

Every accusation you’ve made towards me has been awful awful awful

Why does that make nibs scum?

I voted for Nibbui because, at that point in time, I was extremely frustrated and couldn't imagine Nibbui-town honestly believing that I was obvscum for such terrible reasons.

To be honest, I'll admit that I'm starting to reconsider this given that nobody else really spoke out against his terrible case (which means I'm the only one who sees how bad it is) and also because he later switched his vote to teacher even though he had previously been 'ready to lynch' Egix and then myself (which makes me think that Nibbui is one of those players that pretends to be more confident than he actually is, just so he can influence others).

[Wickedestjr]

K - what was your conclusion on the genuineness of that post?

I'm not sure if it's genuine or not. On the surface your explanation makes logical sense, but I'm not sure that it's the most believable explanation.

You said you wouldn't want to buddy skitter-town as scum, but why does that mean you would want to scumread her instead? If you, as scum, care about how skitter-town perceives you - then wouldn't it be easier to null-read her OR town read her without buddying rather than scum-reading her?

[Wickedestjr]

Starting to feel good about Almost50 too.

is this good scum good or town good

Town good.

[Wickedestjr]

I have never null read her and she is a player that cares about meta.

I think Id want to scum read her becuase Id want her out of the game faster

, and so keep open the possibility of going there and get others to treat her analysis as suspect. Still havent rolled scum against her so havent spent all that much time thinking about it, tbh. Just would be on the hooks to not buddy.

Is she an easy mis-lynch though? Because I haven't really gotten the impression that anyone feels that way (including her).

Starting to feel good about Almost50 too.

is this good scum good or town good

Town good.

From what? the seeming nonchalance?

That's a big part of it.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked is playing this game exactly the way town approached games in the before times, the long long ago, when dinosaurs walked the earth and the molten crust had yet to cool. Sure, he doesn't look town by today's standards, but he's also not a player in the current meta.

FoS: Bingle

He's a remnant of a distant age, who hears AP and thinks, OH SHIT ANGRY PIGEON IS HERE!

[Wickedestjr]

More tomorrow. I have a few things that I still want to say about Egix, my vote for Nibbui, and V/LA, etc.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm actually not going to comment on my Egix/Nibbui/VLA stuff from earlier since I'm again short on time, but I'd be happy to answer any specific questions that anyone has.

One of the reasons why I got burnt out on Friday is because I'm trying to put in the same amount of effort that I used to put into all my mafia games, however, my current lifestyle doesn't provide that much free time anymore and I've realized that I like sleeping. Even within this game, I feel like there are better uses of my scum hunting time/energy than writing reads lists and lengthy explanations that people aren't asking for or reading.

[Wickedestjr]

I wouldn't be terribly opposed to a teacher lynch, but I feel more confident in Wooper-scum. I'm going to even the score.

Unvote. Vote: Wooper

(L-3)

[Wickedestjr]

I'm starting to think Bingle might be town.

[Wickedestjr]

Do you really think the leading wagons are on scum with the gamestate stalled out?

Can you expand on this more rather than just throwing out one-liners?

I feel like nothing has really happened in the 60ish hours since the wagon formed on me. Just awaiting. Which tells me the two people most likely to be defaulted are probably not scum (since I know I’m not). Didn’t think it needed explaining tbh.

I still don’t feel like you really answered the question. Why does ‘nothing happening in 60ish hours’ indicate that you and Wooper are both town?

[Wickedestjr]

Also I don’t feel like we’ve had enough discussion today to make an informed decision.

[Wickedestjr]

100 pages dude.
That’s not enough?

I was being sarcastic.

Specifically, how big a deepwolf threat he is. You seemed concerned by it earlier.

Deepwolf threat? I've seen people use the word 'deep' a few times and not sure what they mean.

[Wickedestjr]

Right now my order of preference is:
Wooper > teacher > Almost50

A Wooper or teacher lynch would be satisfying to me, but I can't relate to the warm fuzzy feeling that people are getting from the A50 bandwagon. I'm still inclined to think that he's town. In general, the case on him is giving me flashbacks to when people were scumreading me earlier.

(1) lots of posting but v little actual content — the appearance of doing things while mostly avoiding it

This is a point that I disagree on. Where do you feel like he's giving the appearance of 'doing things'? Because honestly my impression/memory is that most of his iso has been of a humorous/carefree nature and don't really get the sense that he's motivated by earning town-cred in this game.


And it feels like seeing 'no progression' from someone is the new trendy filler point in this game. Whether it's true or not in this case, it just feels like words any time I see someone say it.

[Wickedestjr]

Basically, how likely he is to be the endgame scum of the team. It's a relatively recent term, but it implies he'll fly under the radar/avoid suspicion well.

Got it, thanks.

[Wickedestjr]

Why does ‘nothing happening in 60ish hours’ indicate that you and Wooper are both town?

Because if one of us were scum someone (other than nibs) would be pushing something and/or the other one.

What is your read on Wooper right now? Because not too long ago you voted him and said "This is what I'm feeling most rn" but a brief skim of your iso shows that you were TLing him a few days before that.

Your view point that you/Wooper are both town from the game slowing down seems like giving Wooper an easy pass (and yourself for that matter). In particular, it makes the assumption that scum weren't already pushing your wagons. And I think there are other strong explanations for the game slowing down.

[Wickedestjr]

Is wooper high priority? I've never seen him be especially good at scum.

Can't recall if you explained this in depth. What aspect of his play here struck you as being beyond his scum-capability?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm completely caught up.

Fwiw, I agree that we definitely shouldn't be lynching teacher today. If my count is correct, then Wooper and Bingle are both at four votes with a few other 1vote bandwagons. I think anyone not voting for either of them should choose one, especially considering the claims.

My preference is still for a Wooper lynch.

I like the point Volpe makes here. skitter, why do you think Bingle tries to 1v1 you if he's scum?

[Wickedestjr]

Bingle, can you answer this?

Is wooper high priority? I've never seen him be especially good at scum.

Can't recall if you explained this in depth. What aspect of his play here struck you as being beyond his scum-capability?

[Wickedestjr]

I like the point Volpe makes here. skitter, why do you think Bingle tries to 1v1 you if he's scum?

Idk
Not really sure what he gets out of it as either alignment, i'm p sure he can read the gamestate well enough to know it isnt going to go that far
It reads like bravado

I agree that it's weird regardless of his alignment. Personally, I can't recall ever seeing scum exhibit 'bravado' in a game, though. Have you seen that? (Wooper you can answer this too)

[Wickedestjr]

I like the point Volpe makes here. skitter, why do you think Bingle tries to 1v1 you if he's scum?

because skitter is never being lynched
it's a dumb false dichotomy and he knows it
this isn't remotely alignment indicative and if anyone town is eating this up as AI they have no respect for bungle's scumgame.

Feels like cognitive dissonance

wrong pokemon but this is very cute

Lol random

[Wickedestjr]

can you give me a tl;dr of why bungle is town for you aorn?

He's a hard neutral for me right now. I looked at some of his past games including the ones he mentioned here and determined that he was pretty accurately describing his own meta as 'very comfortable regardless of his alignment'. One of my primary issues with his early game play was I felt like he was behaving obtusely/erratically to try to make us think he looked comfortable. So seeing the meta kind of 'nullified' that issue I had. I'm also less bothered about his exchange with skitter than I was 80 pages ago.

Fast forward to the past few days, and I am struggling to understand his mindset either way. It seems like he's acting impulsively/carelessly on a number of minor 'softs'/'hints' like your town power role 'softs'. It's hard for me to believe Bingle-town believing in those things but also hard to envision Bingle-scum making a scene about those things.

And we already started talking about his 1v1 with skitter last night. We seem to all agree that this is a weird thing for him to do as scum. You/skitter read this as 'bravado' - correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm taking that to mean you read it as Bingle-scum taking this outlandish approach just for the sake of confusing us. I guess that's not a strategy that I've seen much of in my experience.

He's not my preferred lynch but I don't have enough confidence in this game to stick my neck out for him right now.

p-edit: why did I spend time writing this post

[Wickedestjr]

*Saying he’s trying a 5-6 out of 10 doesn’t seem to mesh with being excited about the playerlist a few days ago. TW why just a 5-6 out of 10?

This is NAI for *reasons*. Trust me on this one.

Town duck is probably exactly as hard to get into the game as scum duck here.

Bingle if you're town and see this before mod locks thread, did you say this because of the softs you were seeing?

[Wickedestjr]

I’d rather the whooping crane, but will give

intent

-11hrs to give a confirmable time and allow shakeout.

VOTE: bingles

Spoiler:

[Wickedestjr]

Nope. *reasons* is shorthand for I'll get sitebanned if I explain fully.

Okay.

[Wickedestjr]

On occasion I've used *reasons* as a cheeky way to say I'm scum so I know he's town, but I wouldn't have done that as scum in potential multiball FWIW.

Nice playing with you again Bingle.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, sorry I'm late.

I haven't read any of the thread yet but I am very pleased to announce that

I am a cop who investigated a suspicious person last night. And I got a guilty!

I will reveal the name when we get closer to the deadline because I want to see scum crack under the immense pressure of not knowing which of them has been caught by me!

No need to fear, Officer Moss is here! Stay tuned, folks!

[Wickedestjr]

Lol what is that? Is it my birthday?

[Wickedestjr]

we're celebrating you being great, and showering you in cake and confetti and appreciation

It feels good to be appreciated.

and votes. you get those too

Is that really necessary?

And what makes you super obvious town right now?

[Wickedestjr]

daaah the fact that nsg died?

in what world do I kill nsg? NSG actively ignores me and ends up PoEing me to one side or another.

*shrug*

I've never played with NSG and know nothing about her experience with you, so this doesn't mean very much to me. Even if this was true, I could still conceive a number of scenarios where you're on a scum team that kills her. Was that your only reason?

But i mean, lets not focus on me, youre the one who claimed the third guilty of the day

That was just me having fun (note how 'over the top' my post was). And I was lying when I said I hadn't read anything, I was only a few pages behind, so I think I'd seen all the claims and retracts by that point.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm completely caught up now. Couple things before I have to go to sleep:

I agree that teacher should claim who he protected last night. That is pretty valuable information that would be completely lost if teacher is town and gets night-killed. If he protected someone from a scum kill, that's a piece of information that could help us identify who the attempted killer was. I don't see the value in hiding who he townreads; scum already have 140 pages worth of information/hints about how people are viewing the game.

Still feeling 'finger lickin' good' about Almost50 from what I've read today.

you're like
literally incorrect
you're so completely incorrect and so ott confident that I'm not trueclaiming that if you weren't completely wrong I'd be convinced it's tmi

do you really think that scum!me is idiot enough to act like this if someone ever fakeclaimed?

I'm not great as scum but don't scrutinize my play that much.

if you were town fakeclaiming the big brain idea would be to "lol look at people acting like they know it's a fakeclaim".

Do you

really

think I wouldn't get at least that much?

Volpe, what did you mean by the bolded? What about your behavior would have been idiotic for scum!you? Not sure if you ever expanded on that.

Also, I disagree with having another doctor claiming right now (if they exist). The probability of a DDD setup is much higher given that we know: it's at least a DD setup based on NSG's flip, there's no Innocent Child, and no second death last night.

The only benefit to another doctor claiming is if we were mass claiming - I'm not sure that we need to do that today, though.

[Wickedestjr]

I need to reread a bit and I'll be V/LA tomorrow. I'll have more to say in a few days.

[Wickedestjr]

This post is definitely not a prod dodge.

[Wickedestjr]

My vote's on teacher in spirit.

Good job Woop

UNVOTE: volpe is indeed town
I have no idea about teacher's alignment and am still irritated we didn't get a rxn from him

It's okay, he's still scum.

Im not mech sort - see Newb 1959 (just ended, so couldnt talk before).

Im I have like 13 pasges to catchup on. Anyone want to give me the TL/DR?

Woop and I both know you're scum. Break out the lolcats.

@Egix

can you explain why you are scumreading teacher right now? You seem to be pretty confident, but these are the only posts I can find where you talk about him. It looks like you started scumreading him once Wooper posted the fake guilty, but kept the read even after Wooper retracted.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm still looking over a few things for another day or so.

[Wickedestjr]

This is really weird. My ‘guilty’ was just a joke...

I thought more people would realize that, so sorry for the confusion.

I know I’ve been kind of a non-entity today. It’s been a combination of real life stuff and me trying to iso/meta people (which I’m almost done with).

[Wickedestjr]

I guess I should have made it more evident that I was joking. Honestly, I thought the joke on its own was over the top/ridiculous enough that people would know I wasn't for real. I don't even know how to read into the fact that people were taking it seriously. (This is a lesson for me in how my posts come across to others.) And it also didn't occur to me that people would skim over my post that came shortly after.

Honestly, it feels like the thread is growing so quickly that I have to include pictures and cop emoji's just to get anyone's attention in this game.

P-edit: I thought you were playing along the whole time.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey

Menalque

and

Volpe

, I think these questions might have gone missed. If you're both still around please answer the following:

(1) lots of posting but v little actual content — the appearance of doing things while mostly avoiding it

This is a point that I disagree on. Where did you feel like he was giving the appearance of 'doing things'? Because honestly my impression/memory is that most of his iso has been of a humorous/carefree nature and don't really get the sense that he's motivated by earning town-cred in this game.

do you really think that scum!me is idiot enough to act like this if someone ever fakeclaimed?

Can you explain what you meant by this?

[Wickedestjr]

I mean from a quick ISO skim this is some of it but like I said I'm not so sure on A50 now and I don't really get what you want to get out of asking me for clarification on something from like 1500 posts ago?

I'm not going to drop something just because it was 1500 posts ago and you never answered. I'm realizing with the fast pace of this thread I have to ask people questions when they're around and this is like the first time we've been online together.

Your vote for A50 felt weird to me (regardless of his alignment). Because I was getting the complete opposite impression of his posts from what you described there. Even though you just unvoted him, I still wanted to understand where you were coming from. The quotes help btw - I don't agree with the conclusion you formed but now I at least get where you were coming from.

The other thing that felt kinda weird to me was how you promised a case earlier and then never did - instead you chose to push this 'wagon resistance' argument which I don't think is very concrete.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: And I'm not asking you to make a case against him now. I know I'm a little bit late to talk about this given your unvote.

That's just one of the other things that felt weird to me.

[Wickedestjr]

These ice sculptures are pretty awesome by the way. I think that one's my new favorite.

Keep it up

Mod

[Wickedestjr]

1

where did you even ask me about that originally?

2

and again, why is it inherently valuable to bring things up just because they weren't answered? bc I kinda feel like that's what you're arguing here

3

why did my vote feel weird to you specifically? what about his posts made you think he was just memeing and not trying to do anything?

4

also why is it important that I promised a case (which ftr I don't think I actually "promised" but w/e) and then didn't get around to it? game moved on, my reasons for scum reading A50 shifted in where I was weighting their importance

1. Here

2. I didn't bring it up 'just because it wasn't answered'. That's a misrep.

3. I literally explained why your vote felt weird to me in that post you're quoting...

4. It's not so much the fact that you said you were going to post a case and you didn't. It's the fact that you said you were going to make a case which implies that you had some somewhat-concrete reasons for believing that he is scum beyond a gut/POE read. And yet the past day or so your main push against him appears to have revolved around this 'resistance to his wagon' idea which feels pretty weak to me.

[Wickedestjr]

don't love how you kinda seem like you're just trying to shade me here

What is 'shading'? That's another one that I've seen pop up a few times but not sure exactly what it means.

I'm having a conversation with you about something that is pinging me. What's the issue with that?

[Wickedestjr]

shading is trying to frame the conversation in such a way that it makes me look bad, while being subtle about it

I don't feel like I was being subtle... I'm certainly not afraid to voice my opinions.

2) how is that a misrep? I said I feel like that's in line with what you're arguing, esp as you emphasised the "I'm not going to drop this just because it was 1500 posts ago" point

3) you said that you got the complete opposite impression. and I said I wanted you to specifically explain why that was. I don't think I'm being unclear here

2) Saying that I'm asking the question "just because you didn't answer it already" implies that I don't care about the question itself, which isn't true. This conversation would be a complete waste of my time if I wasn't genuinely interested in your answers. And the 60 additional pages didn't render my question obsolete.

3) My recollection of his iso is a lot of jokey/fluff posts. I was going to link/quote some, but there are

so many

throughout his iso that I'm not gonna cherry pick specific examples; I think it's pretty clear. I didn't understand you reading him as "the appearance of doing things" because I felt like his posting (especially on day 1) was dominated by those funny/fluff posts.

[Wickedestjr]

what are your reads wicked

Getting to that next

[Wickedestjr]

This is where I’m at right now…

Me
TOWN
teacher

Volpe14
Almost50
skitter30

Egix96 / DrDolittle / NorwegianboyEE
Menalque

pisskop
Wooper

SCUM


teacher's at the top just for the doctor claim. Really my reads on Volpe and Menalque are the only ones that changed too much from what I've looked at the past few days; the rest is pretty much the same. I'm happy to explain any particular ones that people are curious about - don't feel like doing a complete thought dump this time around.

[Wickedestjr]

Idk wicked I just kinda think you’re trying to be ~*active*~ now in a way that doesn’t really roll with how you’ve been up to here

I just learned what shading is about an hour ago, but this feels like shading. I mean like what does this even mean?

I feel like you wanna imply that I’m scum but you’re not willing to and that’s what I mean by shading

Honestly, I

am

starting to think you might be scum. But I'm not confident about that.

[Wickedestjr]

Just looking at his fluff is a really surface level approach. The fluff isn’t really AI — the important thing is what’s in mbetween the fluff because that’s the actual content, and whether that’s actually game advancing or just efforts to look like it is

My read on him isn't just a surface level read. You commented on him trying to 'appear' like he was doing things, so I thought this was a surface level conversation.

[Wickedestjr]

Yoink

[Wickedestjr]

You know what, Menalque? I feel like you're being pretty hypocritical tonight. I've spent the last two hours talking to you about your A50 read and you literally just accused me of not trying to figure out your thought process. Yet you just posted like five questions in a row about my reads list and voted me before I even get a word in edgewise. So I feel like

you

are the one that's not seeking clarification on

my

thought process.

I feel like you're being pretty unreasonable right now.

And you were a neutral/slight scum lean before this conversation even started, btw. So yes, this is not how town approaches a top TR; you are right about that.

[Wickedestjr]

And you quoted my reads from page 40. When I said my reads didn't change that much, I wasn't talking about 'with respect to page 40'.

If I had known my pg 40 reads were going to be locked in for the next 120 pages then I would have put more thought into them.

[Wickedestjr]

I'll talk about my reads more tomorrow. This has been a frustrating conversation.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, I’ve got family visiting right now but I found some time to quickly check in here and skim through everything.

I’m a full shot cop.
N1: teacher inno
N2: Wooper guilty

Vote: Wooper

Scum team
Wooper, Volpe + skitter/Menalque


I’ll try to find some more time for posting tonight. Please don’t do anything hasty before then.

[Wickedestjr]

Short on time, but a couple things I want to point out if you'll indulge me in my self-meta...

Fwiw, I never explicitly breadcrumbed my cop role, but there are several instances where I behaved differently from my standard VT meta. My last few town games I was an early nightkill, so I came into this game not wanting to be a strong presence. Case in point, when I complained about the slow start but didn't do much else to actually help it. If I see a game progressing slowly, I normally put myself out there to try to get it moving, but I didn't want to do that this time.

The other thing was when I felt momentum shifting towards me around here and I just completely went V/LA. I've never done that in a game before. The truth was that I was genuinely frustrated with the game state at that point because Nibbui's vote against me was complete bs and nobody else was calling him out for it, but I was also hoping that I might become somewhat forgotten (in particular, I'd acknowledged that Nibbui had shown a propensity to not be very sticky). I

really

didn't want a repeat of the last game I was cop, in which I had to claim on day 1, which was equally frustrating.

I was still scumhunting all game, but partially doing it with a mindset of surviving the first couple days/nights.

Then on day 2, I was deliberately slow to show up because Wooper/A50 had both fake claimed. I knew they couldn't both be real cops (because that would have to make this a CCCCCDD setup which is basically impossible). I thought one or both of them were probably joking but wanted to wait a little bit to see what actually happened before I started posting. They both rescinded their claims before I posted. My 'fake guilty' was seriously just a joke all along (to poke fun at their fake claims), but part of me also thought that scum would never peg me as an actual cop for doing that.

I think my night actions were pretty straightforward but I'll explain if anyone's curious.

[Wickedestjr]

You can plan out night 3 all you want but if I get lynched today, then that's all for naught.

I think it's pretty obvious that I'm a real cop with my thought process above. @the people who believe Volpe over me- do you really see Volpe-cop playing the way that he's played? He's the most active player in the thread and he had made himself a pretty popular townread. I'm just saying: if he were a real cop, he'd have to be pretty lucky to survive two nights and not get roleblocked.

I'm happy lynching him or Wooper.

[Wickedestjr]

Also obligatory:

Scum team feels like TW/Nibbui + maybe Flippy or teacher

I totally called TW/Nibbui at this point.

[Wickedestjr]

Before I go to sleep, I just wanted to talk about the probabilities here. I'm a huge math nerd and from what I've skimmed through the past few pages it seems like some incorrect calculations might have been made at some point.

The probability of a given setup is calculated by multiplying the probability for each individual letter and then multiplying all of that by the number of possible orders.

E.g. For a TTTTTTC setup, the probability is (0.5) x (0.5) x (0.5) x (0.5) x (0.5) x (0.5) x (0.15) x (7!/6!1!) or (0.5)^6 x (0.15) x 7.
0.5 for each of the T's generated and 0.15 for the C generated. Multiply that by 7 because there are seven possible orders that you can get it:
CTTTTTT
TCTTTTT
TTCTTTT
TTTCTTT
TTTTCTT
TTTTTCT
TTTTTTC


If you have something a little bit more complicated like CCDDVVV, that would be a probability of:
(0.15) x (0.15) x (0.1) x (0.1) x (0.1) x (0.1) x (0.1) x [7!/(2!*2!*3!)] = 0.0047% in a vacuum

[Wickedestjr]

From my pov, I know there's at least CCDDV in this setup, so the chance of CCDDVVV is going to be much higher.

I still think it'd be kinda slim though, so I'm not sure I believe both skitter and Menalque's claims. I'm going to do more of the math tomorrow if I can find the time, but that's not as interesting to me as giving Wooper or Volpe rope today.

[Wickedestjr]

think it'd be a solid FTC speech tho
do you play LSGs wicked?

I'm a huge Survivor fan, but I don't play LSGs myself, no.

[Wickedestjr]

I’m really jealous that survivor is not easy to watch in europe

Ah dang that's too bad.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't like how Wicked has been toned down until Mylo, where he hits us with wallposts. So i might just vote Wicked. I'm still not 100% sure about this, but i think scum!Volpe deserves winning much more if she's mafia than Wicked does. So i sincerely hope it's not a mistake but i'm trusting Volpe over Wicked's claim.

I think you're town, but that is literally Wooper reason to vote for someone.

You've got time. Don't see why you're hastily making a game-deciding decision like this for such a weak reason. I recommend you reread my posts from last night or do something to help yourself come to the right conclusion.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: *the worst reason

Friggin auto correct

[Wickedestjr]

And I would object to the statement that I've been lurking in this game. Just because I'm one of the less active players in this

187 page game

doesn't mean I'm lurking. Blatant Scum, flippy, and CJ were lurkers. I'm not.

Couple other things:

• I've literally been posting as much as I can. I was busy rereading on day 2, but it's not my fault day ended right after I finished with that.
  
• Check literally any scum game of mine and you'll see that I don't resort to lurking as an intentional strategy. I don't see lurking as a viable long-term scum-strategy, in general.
  
• I will repeat what I said last night: Volpe's high activity and aggressive gameplay does not make sense for a full-shot cop. Nobody had a problem with my level of activity until today, now that I am up against him.

I don't want to be a part of a game where the guy who has more time on his hands triumphs over me for that reason alone.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm pretty sure it's {Volpe, Wooper} and one of {skitter, Menalque}.

CCDDVVV is pretty unlikely

[Wickedestjr]

i'm not sure that works out mechanically (?)
but i also haven't done it from your pov tbf

Purely from a mechanical standpoint, there are a number of possibilities:

skitter...Menalque
--------------------
town.....town
town.....mafia
sk.........town
sk.........mafia
mafia.....sk


I guess now that I break it down this way, it is possible for you to both be non-mafia. Really the only options that can be 100% ruled out are Menalque being SK and you being town and also you both being mafia (but I already knew that wasn't the case).

[Wickedestjr]

I don't want to be a part of a game where the guy who has more time on his hands triumphs over me for that reason alone.

Just as an aside I think it's disingenuous to suggest anyone is scumreading you for comparatively low activity to volpe. Volpe's play looks more like a townie and exhibits a broader range of things which are hard to fake as scum than yours by a decent margin; this is guilt-tripping and is transparently manipulative play.

It's not manipulation. Norway literally said:

I don't like how Wicked has been toned down until Mylo, where he hits us with wallposts. So i might just vote Wicked. I'm still not 100% sure about this, but i think scum!Volpe deserves winning much more if she's mafia than Wicked does. So i sincerely hope it's not a mistake but i'm trusting Volpe over Wicked's claim.

That's the only rationale he's given for voting me instead of Volpe. He doesn't explicitly talk about my activity 'relative to Volpe's', but it does still appear like my inactivity is the deciding factor for him. It bugs me because I'm posting as much as I can, yet it's not going to be enough according to him.

again this is mafia not an LSG. if you were town this would be where we need you to play the game instead of burying your head in the sand with selfmeta and AtE.

This is bs and you know it Wooper. I know that you and Volpe are both scum AND it's MyLo. My biggest priority right now is making sure I don't get lynched - hence my self meta post. Don't act like my play is lacking something today.

And I haven't done any AtE.

[Wickedestjr]

That's it for me tonight.

[Wickedestjr]

Nope. We all talked about it in our private neighborhood w/ day talk and decided that Volpe or Wooper will be the lynch for today instead.

[Wickedestjr]

I was getting to that, sorry skitter.

Night 1, I investigated teacher. I suspected him for most of day 1 to begin with, but the doctor claim made me more suspicious of him. Not because of the Egix breadcrumb - I never saw that. In particular, a doctor claim is very safe because it's not completely cc'able in this setup, it's not a super longshot to exist like full-shot roleblocker or something, and I also feel like it's the least provable power role in the game. If I was scum in his position, I would have claimed doctor.

I felt like it was very convenient that he happened to be the easiest fakeclaim in the game and much more likely that he was mafia (mathematically and because of his play).

And I felt like investigating him was a win-win. If he came up guilty, then I would have claimed on day 2 and pushed his lynch. If he came up innocent, then I knew he probably wouldn't be part of the lynch consideration anyway, so I wouldn't have to worry about sticking my neck out for him and outing my ability prematurely.

Night 2, I investigated Wooper because he was my top suspect at the end of day 2.

[Wickedestjr]

More from me in a few hours

[Wickedestjr]

Prodded- sorry everyone. Tonight’s my last night with family. I should have gone V/LA but thought I’d be able to pop in more frequently.

I should be around tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Hey guys, I'm here. My visitors have left and I've survived to the weekend. So I should have a lot more time on my hands from now through Sunday.

I'll be online for the next five or six hours.

*catching up now*

[Wickedestjr]

and can you explain again what the point of this post was?

My last explanation (from a few days ago) pretty much covered it. That fake guilty from me on day 2 was 50% just me having fun, poking fun at Wooper/A50/(the situation). The other 50% was me realizing that scum probably wouldn't expect an actual cop to fake a guilty on someone. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a cop, but I felt like a few people made it obvious they weren't cops when the Wooper/A50 claims were taking place, so I kinda wanted to blend in with those people.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm not going to respond to all of Wooper's comments regarding me. It feels like ever since I guiltied him, he's been twisting a lot of my posts around. This is the one comment that I do want to clear up for everyone:

Again the fact he's noped out of the game here now that the gamestate calls for earnest hard solving, when he has higher than usual lynch equity, is very telling that solving the game is not in his best interests.

First of all, there's no benefit for me, as scum, to intentionally lurk through this day phase after blatantly putting the spotlight on myself. If my gameplan, as scum, was to fly under the radar today, then why would I CC Volpe and claim a guilty on someone else when I could have just claimed VT? Nobody was really pushing for my lynch up until then. So at the very least, maybe let's agree that my busy-ness this week was genuine? I'm tired of seeing people try to attach a scum motive to my inactivity today.

Secondly, he keeps repeating that I'm obvious scum because I'm not trying to solve the game. But FMPOV, we probably lose immediately if I get lynched today, so my number one priority is making sure I don't get lynched. And this game is almost solved FMPOV, so there isn't much else for me to do. I know two of the scum and, mathematically, there's a strong chance that there’s a third in {Menalque, skitter}. I do want to try to figure that part out, but I haven’t had the time.

If there's anything else from Wooper that other people want me to comment on, then let me know. Otherwise I'm not going to.

[Wickedestjr]

I don't have much else to go on other than my belief that Wicked is faking a guilty, and seeing as nobody else was saying anything interesting i felt like pushing him a little. So far no response from Wicked himself.

I don’t know what you’re wanting me to respond to. AFAIC, you haven’t asked me anything. You just decided that I’m scum and are trying to fit your game read around that.

Wicked can you get out of the mafia PT and post more here?

I prefer talking to you there, though.

I still stand by my point earlier that Volpe-cop doesn’t play this way.

Is that outside of Volpe's meta? Pretty sure he mentioned he doesn't like changing his playstyle depending on his role.

But if he’s scum, which he is, then he could be lying about that. Have you bothered to actually check this for yourself? ALSO: you should check out Baton Pass if you haven’t already.

[Wickedestjr]

wicked doesn't seem to be the WIFOM kind of guy

if he wants to claim a guilty, he does it in the easiest target. Wooper is the easiest target

This is a pretty big stretch too by the way. He is attaching a scum motive to me going after the ‘easiest target’, but ignores the fact that my cop claim is counterclaiming him (a difficult target). Almost everyone had been townreading him prior to today, including myself.


FWIW, I am definitely capable of fake-claiming cop as scum, but I would only do it if I thought that people would believe me. I’m not the WIFOM type of guy to put myself in an unfavorable position just to confuse people, because from my experience people don’t play into those arguments enough for it to be +EV.

[Wickedestjr]

@skitter-

what are your reads right now? It seems like you've kinda been on the fence throughout today.

I'm still kinda creeped out by how intune the three of them are

You appeared to be talking about Volpe/Wooper/Norway here. How likely do you think it is that Norway would so blatantly side with his partners in this situation? I'm half trying to understand your perspective and half wondering if there's something I'm missing w.r.t. Nor.

[Wickedestjr]

Wooper, I'm not trying to convince you that I'm town. Nobody's really bit on any of the points that you've brought up so there's no reason for me to address anything else that you've said.

And you're trying to convince people that my survival mindset is explicitly a scum tell when it's actually 100% NAI in a MyLo situation like this one. And, as I've said before, I haven't had the time to really 'solve' this game until now (I just finished catching up on everything).

[Wickedestjr]

what's your takeaway from baton pass?

I actually almost signed up for it, so I was glancing at the thread every now and then just to see what was going on.

I don't think I've ever played in a game that didn't have standard 'voting to lynch' rules, so it was cool seeing the game start off without a typical RVS. I thought it was a creative mechanic and I was pretty impressed that town managed to do so well with it early on. And was equally surprised that they didn't end up winning.

[Wickedestjr]

What'd you think? Were you in it?

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Volpe14

[Wickedestjr]

@Egix-

why do Nibb/TW interactions look good to you? In particular, I feel like the interaction you quoted above is kind of a weak/easy reason to rule them out as partners. Nibbui, in particular, has recently proven that he is tricky as scum. I feel like their interactions in the early game were weird. See my comments about TW here.

[Wickedestjr]

I spent some time actually analyzing the mechanics of this setup and the results are pretty interesting.

I randomly generated a very long list of potential setups in Excel and filtered out the ones that meet the following characteristics:

• DD
  
• CC
  
• no M or B

I generated 100 possible setups that follow those characteristics and found the following:

• 59% no V
  
• 38% V
  
• 2% VV
  
• 1% VVV

This is all from my perspective of knowing that this is a CC setup, but I think this data speaks very strongly for at least one of skitter/Menalque lying. If this is a zero V setup, then that means skitter/Menalque are mafia and SK (in some order). If this is a one V setup, then that means skitter is town and Menalque is mafia. I haven't yet decided which scenario I think is most likely, but there are a couple key takeaways from this:

• It is very unlikely that Norway or DDL are scum in this game.
  
• If Volpe were an actual cop, he should never be pushing a DDL lynch. Him pushing a DDL lynch only makes sense if he genuinely believes this is precisely a CCDDVVV setup which is an extreme long-shot.

TL;DR - Volpe and Wooper need rope.

[Wickedestjr]

@Egix-

why do Nibb/TW interactions look good to you? In particular, I feel like the interaction you quoted above is kind of a weak/easy reason to rule them out as partners. Nibbui, in particular, has recently proven that he is tricky as scum. I feel like their interactions in the early game were weird. See my comments about TW here.

The fact that Nibb moved their vote from Jingle to TW seemed like a good thing, and the rest of their talking with TW didn't really feel s/s to me.

The link you put takes me to an A50 post so you might wanna check that.

Nope. A50's Donald Trump gif is precisely the reason why TW and Nibbui are scum together. I think it speaks for itself.

[Wickedestjr]

Nope you're right. I actually meant 1140, sorry.

[Wickedestjr]

Sounds like Menalque is obviously mafia from your calculations Wicked. Why is it then your tl;dr conclusion that we should lynch Volpe or Wooper?

I'm 100% certain that Volpe and Wooper are scum, and am almost certain that they're both mafia. In particular, I feel like my analysis makes it pretty clear that Volpe is scum.

Menalque is not 100% mafia based on my last post. Looking at this purely from a math standpoint, there's a ~30% chance that he's SK. I'm inclined to believe that he is mafia, but he's not as certain as Wooper/Volpe.

I would rather start by lynching the scum that I'm more confident in.

[Wickedestjr]

Yep, time to claim.

[Wickedestjr]

That was impressively fast Chemist.

[Wickedestjr]

Although he also replaced in at lightning speed. I suppose he could have already had some idea what was going on.

[Wickedestjr]

That was impressively fast Chemist.

what

I know that you/Volpe are scum. I'm impressed that you figured out his claim so quickly, but there are a few explanations for that.

[Wickedestjr]

or you know, he read the scum pt to see what the fake-claim plan was

True.

[Wickedestjr]

Did Menal say why they didn't shoot N1?

That was impressively fast Chemist.

what

I know that you/Volpe are scum. I'm impressed that you figured out his claim so quickly, but there are a few explanations for that.

yeah but like

you're pointing out something that makes me townier

why

Just giving credit where credit's due. I was impressed. Not saying people should be townreading you for it.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm a jack of all trades.

[Wickedestjr]

Menalque, if you're town, then you should be more paranoid of me and skitter. Your 'most likely team' only works if this is a CCDDVVV setup which is very unlikely.

[Wickedestjr]

i'm actually at scum!wicked rn
if volpe/wooper are actually scum here i have significant issues with how you've played this phase that i guess can till postgame
and i guess it would make me feel better to think that what you lot have said has been in good faith

If this is directed at me, then I don't see why this has to wait until post game...

wicked's repeated absence just doesn't make me feel good either

I'm growing tired of reading comments like this.

I was inactive

three days this week

(T-R) and gave a clear indication as to why. It's unfair to say that I've neglected or lurked through this game just because I haven't been posting as much as everyone else. If every slot in this game had posted as 'little' as I had, then this would be an 85 page thread right now. You're holding me to an unreasonable standard. Also:

*Every time I've gone inactive, I've given a clear reason for doing so.
*I haven't been posting elsewhere.
*There's literally no reason for me to be intentionally lurking through this day as scum.
*Look at literally any scum game of mine and you'll see I'm not a scum-lurker.
*I've posted pretty much every day outside of my indicated 'limited activity' periods.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, it's a little bit frustrating that the people critiquing me the most for my activity (skitter, Norway) aren't even responding to me when I am posting.

I've asked questions and made points to both of you that you've completely ignored.

[Wickedestjr]

I think the scum team is {Wooper, Chem, Menalque} w/ a skitter-SK. At this point, my preferred lynch is Wooper/Chem but I would vote Menalque if it was the only alternative to my mis-lynch.

There are a number of explanations for Chem-scum figuring out Volpe's claim so quickly. For all we know, Volpe could have left some parting words for him in their pt.

And Volpe, himself, admitted that his replace out wasn't alignment indicative. It doesn't make logical sense to be townreading him for it.

And Norway, you should check to see if Volpe has actually played this way as cop before simply trusting his own explanation on this. I feel like your confbiasing by just automatically trusting his word. He literally has to lie about that when he's scum in this case.

I'm not going to repeat my case for me-town and Volpe-scum. If anyone is actually open to considering that I'm town, then check out this, this, this, and this.

[Wickedestjr]

Unvote. Vote: Wooper

[Wickedestjr]

Where is the scum!motivation in me defending you here fypov?

Honestly, I'm not completely sure. If you're scum, then you are much trickier than I was giving you credit for at the beginning of this game.

This is all WIFOM though. If you're scum, then it doesn't really matter where your vote is as long as you're ready to quickhammer me when the time comes.

[Wickedestjr]

skitter, if I am scum then who do you think my partners are?

If you are townreading me on play, then I feel like you shouldn't lean towards believing the guy who admitted his replace out was NAI.

[Wickedestjr]

he's also like
laid his trap
and is waiting

idk if it's 100% because i'm in the middle of it but the agenda looks really obvious

You have this habit of saying things about me that sound bad on the surface but that don't actually have any justification...

[Wickedestjr]

One other thing I would like to point out:

Not only was Volpe a much more popular townread than myself, but he had also proven himself to be very influential. On day 1, he literally picked apart a few minuscule parts of Egix's posts and pretty quickly created an L-2 bandwagon on him. I voiced my disagreement and faced a fair amount of backlash before anyone had even tried hearing me out. And he was like 5 times more active than me. There's no scenario where me facing this David/Goliath face-off is actually my best move as scum.

And like others said, I was probably the least popular townread among {me, DDL, Mena}.

[Wickedestjr]

Going to sleep now. I'll be back at my computer around 6:30 EST.

If Wooper gets lynched today, then that will confirm Chemist as scum too. As far as night actions go, I think it seems pretty clear that Egix has to protect me. And I would probably investigate Menalque tonight. Not sure what Menalque should be instructed to do, or if it even matters. But I'll be thinking about this while I'm at work tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

It's actually not that bad.

If we lynch Wooper today, then he will flip mafia goon or rb. That will confirm that Volpe was lying too and he would be the day 4 lynch. And I've already explained here how it is very unlikely for this to be a CCDDVV setup. I'm the only one that can see it right now, but with Wooper/Volpe being scum, it is very unlikely for the third to

not

be in skitter/Menalque.

So if skitter is town/SK, then this is the last big decision she has to make.

skitter, it seems like you're on the right track. What is making you hesitant about voting Wooper or Volpe right now?

[Wickedestjr]

Fair enough.

[Wickedestjr]

The only two options I'm really considering right now are:
A. skitter/Menalque being mafia and SK (in some order)

B. skitter is actually 1-shot vig and Menalque is mafia

Mathematically, it is very unlikely that me/skitter/Menalque are all non-mafia. Once Wooper/Chem are confirmed then I think we need to use the night actions to sort skitter/Menalque.


If Wooper gets lynched today, then I think this is the optimal night action plan:
I investigate Menalque
Egix protects me
Menalque shoots skitter


Menalque's almost never actually a vig here. If he's mafia then he can't shoot skitter outside his factional kill anyways. And if he's SK, then that means skitter is probably mafia. So his action seems like a win-win.

If there's a roleblocker, then they can't stop both Menalque and me.

If skitter is SK, then I think she would be forced to shoot Chem tonight which would earn us an extra lynch.

What do you guys think about this?

[Wickedestjr]

If Wooper gets lynched today, then I think this is the optimal night action plan:
I investigate Menalque
Egix protects me
Menalque shoots skitter

Ehhh... thinking about it some more, I'm actually not sure it would even matter who Menalque shoots as long as he shoots one of me/skitter/Chem tonight. They may all functionally be the same.

This setup is a mess.

[Wickedestjr]

I actually agree with DDL that Menalque should probably shoot Chemist.

I was trying to get fancy, thinking about using his shot to sort someone else instead of Chem, given that Chem would be the hypothetical day 4 lynch anyways. But it's all functionally the same, just in a different order. If Menalque actually has a shot, then it's probably safer for him to go for the Chem-kill since it's confirmed.

But the important thing is that CCDDVV is a pretty tough sell.

[Wickedestjr]

Also: I just noticed that if you and Menalque are both actually vigs, then this is CCDDVV and there has to also be an SK. But there's no evidence of four killers being in this game, so it makes that scenario even more unlikely.

[Wickedestjr]

Oh right, sorry.

[Wickedestjr]

The mafia team of Chemist1422 (a

Mafia Goon

), Menalque (a

Mafia Roleblocker

) and Wickedestjr (a

Mafia Goon

) has reached majority.

Spoiler:

[Wickedestjr]

Thanks for the game, nomnom! The modding this game was literally perfect.

I'm fine releasing the PT if all my partners are ready.

[Wickedestjr]

Good game, everyone. This win wasn't easy. Seems like most of the town had two of us pegged but no-one was able to put the full puzzle together with our crazy fake claim gambit. To be fair, it wasn't something that we planned far in advance, so I think that partially explains the ridiculousness of it. If you read our PT later, you'll see that it was kinda a spur of the moment thing once thread opened on day 3. I had know idea that I would be claiming cop until like 10-15 minutes before I did so. It was Volpe's idea, which I ended up going along with because I felt like I was going to be a lynch candidate anyways and didn't think people would peg us as partners for cc'ing each other like that.

I think a number of things went tremendously well for us. E.g. I think my partners might have read NSG as a PR/SK but her 1-shot doc flip was pretty lucky for us imo. It was also nice not having to face any cops, full-shot vigs, or an SK. In general, I feel that a lower PR count in this setup is slightly more scum-sided and a high-PR count is more town-sided.

I also feel lucky for getting two skilled partners. Volpe and Menalque really impressed me and it's not often I draw scum and feel like I'm the weak link. Chemist did an adequate job helping us finish this off without rocking the boat.


My first game after two years of hiatus did not disappoint. I should have expected no less than rolling scum and playing in the longest open thread ever lol. Day 1 of this game was the most I've ever lol'd in a mafia game and Day 3 was amusing just by the absurdity of how everything went down.

I agree that this player list was awesome. There are several people here that I really want to play with again.

[Wickedestjr]

And page 228 of this thread is hilarious. I'm /in for the alternate ending shoot, lol.

P.S. I can also say that there's an alternate universe where I scum-slip and promptly get lynched instead of Wooper. I was literally

seconds

away from making a post where I explain why I think Wooper is a Godfather, not even realizing that that would have contradicted my role claim. I felt like
'setup analysis' was like walking on eggshells in this game.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm still your biggest fan wick.

Right back atcha'. You were a lot of fun to play with, even though we were both trying to lynch each other all game. Maybe some day we'll both draw town together.

Just putting this out there, because I don't think it was clear from my previous post: The scum team played extraordinarily well during the portion I read and I think they deserve the win, (and would have even without the lolclaims on the part of town). Wicked and Mena both had me completely fooled and while there was slight paranoia about Volpe in the back of my head I think there were like 5 or 6 people I would've lynched first.

Thanks a lot, Jingle. I was bummed our time together was short-lived.

[Wickedestjr]

LOL.

Make it happen!

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked it wasnt your lack of posting that inherently bothered me so much as ~i could see you were online~ and not posting for a lot of the game

Thank you for explaining this. I like to browse the game on my phone throughout the day but usually refrain from posting until I can get to my computer because I can post much faster that way. The exceptions to that were whenever I felt an urgent need to post on my phone, like my cop claim for instance. I can promise I wasn't lurking any more than I would have been as town, I was seriously trying to be here as often as I could.

wicked if you'd strongly preferred town i think i might be townreading you

I never forgot about this, btw - it was amusingly dead on. The truth was that I currently do have a strong preference for town, but I kinda lied in downplaying that preference because I was worried that I wouldn't come across as being engaged in the game.