Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[Skruffs]

And Yos WAS an obvkill to those who found him to be pro-town.

So far that is you, and cow. Did anyone else seem to be convinced Yos was town?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

We basically have two items that do the same thing. Do you really think they are both real? Especially when Moonshine is alcohol and Ether is not a moron?

I consider it likely, because the risk-reward ratio as scum just doesn't line up with something that's fake. Why say you used it on the dead player, unless, of course, that's what you did? Please respond to the

relevant

questions, in which you and y try to make a case based on things I didn't say.

@Skruffs: I dunno, I wasn't

certain

, but he was definitely on my pro-town side of the list.

[Ether]

1 TheSweatpantsNinja (Mizzy)
1 Y (TheSweatpantsNinja)

4 Unvote (hasdgfas, Skruffs, Tiger Twins, Y)

6 alive; 4 to lynch.

Deadline's in a bit less than 60 hours.

[Skruffs]

Especially when Moonshine is alcohol and Ether is not a moron?

Don't outguess the mod.
Love you Ether!

[Skruffs]

Okay. Calling Y out on discrepancies in behavior towards players. This is what Y had to say about eldarad after the items claims and such:

I made a re-read for eldarad, and I did find some posts where he says that werewolves might not be scum before the claim. That validates his point, although I still think the play was wrong. The town has the right to decide who to lynch, not the single person with info.

There was a post I didn't like though, so I just have one question, eldarad: If you weren't sure that RS is town, why did you protect him?
I'd like you to consider this:

eldarad seems weird to me. He protected RS, who was in fact town, but it seems like his reason was more "I know he's town" than "I don't think he's scum".

Exactly right.

On Night 2 I received a 'moonshine' - basically a one-shot cop.
It allowed me to identify a werewolf. RS is not a werewolf. Although I don't know who - if anyone - gave the item to me, or even whether the scum are werewolves (if they are not, then the item is basically useless.)

Be careful with your answer, since it's probably the one keeping me from switching votes.

You either think some one is town, and you protect him, or you think he's scum, and you attack him. There's no "I'll protect him for not being a werewolf, but let him die for potentially being scum anyway".

In response to my post you said you were protecting him for knowing he's town.

If by the time deadline closes in tomorrow you have no good explanation - I'll be the one to hammer you.

Note that both times he says that if eldarad doesn't explain himself, he will vote him - giving eldarad the chance to weasel out of things, before actually putting the punch on. However, even though eh didn't vote him, he said this the next day:

I do like that Y waited until today to bring it up, though, presumably he's following cow's lead in trying to get suspicion on me.

Is this a good thing? I don't know about you, but I had no way of knowing eldarad was scum

before we actually lynched him

...

I think that if there's another player who received wolfsbane, he should claim. We're using it a semi-confirmation, and I'd like to know that it's not made up.

He wasn't voting Eldarad but he seems to be saying that he helped lynch him. However, both of his posts were trying ot encourage eldarad to explain himself so as to give Y a reason *not* to vote.

Here's the other votes Y has made in the game, two of them on now-confirmed townies, one on me:

If I'm not mistaken, deadline kicks in in less than 24 hours (It's actually the 19th already were I am).

I agree with Yos that we should at least try progressing somewhere.

Vote Skruffs.

Enough reasons were mentioned already.

RS: You're slipping and then trying, unsuccessfully, to get away with it.
Investigation? If you were investigated, then there's only one player knowing it. The cop. No reason for the town to react to an investigation.
You said that you purposefully didn't post, then you said you weren't sarcastic about that, and then that you didn't say it. Later you claimed again to miss the deadline post on purpose.
I was, by the way, the one to call you on the filler posts. Mizzy followed me. Is there a reason you're accusing only her? Would it be bad for your case against her?

I Also don't like the way eldarad protects him. I don't see RS play as a mad townsperson.
Skruffs, again, strikes me as linked to RS. First for distancing, and now he protects him, but with an escape exit.

Vote RS, FoS eldarad and Skruffs.

Remember how I had a list of 4 people, and said that 3 of the 4 of them must be scum? If we lynch every day, and the scum miss at least one more kill before the end of the game, then we have 4 lynches left, and are therefore basically guarenteed to win.

You're missing one very important thing: This list is based on you being town and so does TT, but we have no reason to believe that's true. So far you've been pushing a lynch every day and you pushed in a wrong way every time. Forgive me for not following your "great" logic for once.

Besides Skruffs and TT, who are more or less confirmed, we have

six

people. Our chances are probably 50%-50% in a LYLO situation. Those are not good odds to push a lynch just for the sake of avoiding a no-lynch. With all the missed NKs, it seems like mislynches are the best way for the scum to win, doesn't it?

You all wanted both a decision, and a good candidate for a lynch, so here it is:

Vote Yosarian2

.
I'm tired of you knowing exactly what the town must do while dragging us all down the drain.

eldarad, I see two options:
1. You're scum, you tried to score some "townie" points by protecting an innocent, but you weren't cautious enough, so now you're trying to lie your way out of it (You being scared of exposure makes you be too reckless).
2. You're so bad as a player, that you decided to keep important information to yourself, although you could have simply explain it to the town and avoid the whole mess.
While I tend to believe the first option is the right one, after I saw RS play I can't dismiss the second.
By the way, why Mizzy?

Also note that Y (at the end of hte post where he votes Yosarian2) is sayign that he sees eldarad as scum, or bad townie, referring to RS (Who he voted for being a bad townie) as the basis for his statement.

He's only really treated one player other than Eldarad in that 'hesitant' manner, that I have seen, but that's not really important - yet.


I am not voting him because I think we are at lylo, however, I am thinking that

Y

is definitely one of the werewolves.

[Mizzy]

Please respond to the

relevant

questions, in which you and y try to make a case based on things I didn't say.

My case is based mostly on things your predecessor did, which you can't answer for anyway. The rest is on my impressions of your posts, which again, there's nothing you can do about.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

No. Stop dodging.

You're acting like we shouldn't give the Eldarad item claim quite the amount of scrutiny that I think we should be and that makes me wonder if it's because you're not interested due to the fact that maybe you already knew it was a lie.

You said this. Where do you see me doing that?

It seems pretty obvious that something's wrong with that claim, but you keep insisting that we should ignore it.

Y said that. Do you agree?

Also, please reiterate why my posts regarding eldarad make me scummy.

[Mizzy]

No. Stop dodging.

You're acting like we shouldn't give the Eldarad item claim quite the amount of scrutiny that I think we should be and that makes me wonder if it's because you're not interested due to the fact that maybe you already knew it was a lie.

You said this. Where do you see me doing that?

It seems pretty obvious that something's wrong with that claim, but you keep insisting that we should ignore it.

Y said that. Do you agree?

Also, please reiterate why my posts regarding eldarad make me scummy.

I am not dodging, you are putting meaning into my mouth. I said you are ACTING like, not that you directly said it. The quote that really made me start wondering about it was #1257, specifically. After that, all of your posts just get worse.

Y said it pretty nicely, actually. I feel something is wrong with Eld's past item claim and you seem to a) not agree in a very passive "oh, whatever" way and don't really seem to care much about the possibility that he DID lie. Maybe it doesn't seem important to you, but I have a pretty vested interest in this game and I don't want anything to slip by again.

[Tiger Twins]

I just re-read the past 10 pages or so, and re-read Yos2.

Yos2 might have been killed because he said he could prove himself, then oh wait, no he couldn't. Maybe he meant his claim would have almost proven him?

He had the scum group pegged to eldarad-andy-y or eldarad-andy-hasd.

I think he is right about the former. I think that tspn's vote on eldarad yesterday was odd, and his discussion of eldarad's item use today sounds like someone with too much information. I think Y is the likely partner, but it could be hasd.

I might not be able to keep the deadline going at all. Assuming two scum left, if I am v/la, they can force a no lynch, which is bad cookies.

vote: TheSweatPantsNinja

I think he's the best lynch for today, and lynching before deadline hits would be most beneficial.

~Guardian

[Mizzy]

I might not be able to keep the deadline going at all. Assuming two scum left, if I am v/la, they can force a no lynch, which is bad cookies.

Shit, that's a very good point. We should all be choosing a vote target and posting as much as possible. That said:

Vote: TheSweatPantsNinja

[Mizzy]

Aaaand you can tell that my lack of sleep is catching up to me (Gabe is being kind of colicky and has been awake most of the time; plus he just had his shots, ugh) and now I remember I already HAD voted him. I suck. Sorry! I'm going to go nap.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I am not dodging, you are putting meaning into my mouth. I said you are ACTING like, not that you directly said it. The quote that really made me start wondering about it was #1257, specifically. After that, all of your posts just get worse.

Please be specific. Because, see, I really disagree with your entire point. I was engaging hasdfgas on the item claim, and discussing it, as opposed to ignoring it entirely or trying to dismiss it.

[Mizzy]

Please be specific. Because, see, I really disagree with your entire point. I was engaging hasdfgas on the item claim, and discussing it, as opposed to ignoring it entirely or trying to dismiss it.

Sweet cripes, do I need to spell it out in 3 different languages? Here:

Could be. I don't think so. I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

Wishy washy to the extreme.

Oh, no, if anything, I was engaging in a little self-promotion, because my case on eldarad was based on him reacting like scum would react to being given a pro-town item.

So you completely disregard or choose to dismiss the entire opposite of the equation? What if your entire case was right for the wrong reasons? Or right because you had information the rest of us don't and had nothing to do with the item claim? This is my point.

But anyway, so now your theory is I'm lying about what my opinion is about eldarad lying about having an item at all because. . . I'm sorry, why would I do that again?

Scum like about nearly everything, don't they? Their roles, motives, etc. So why wouldn't you lie? You're trying to look townie, aren't you? And if lying somehow makes you look more townie, wouldn't you do that?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Wishy washy to the extreme.

So you completely disregard or choose to dismiss the entire opposite of the equation? What if your entire case was right for the wrong reasons? Or right because you had information the rest of us don't and had nothing to do with the item claim? This is my point.

So am I being wishy washy about eldarad, or completely disregarding the possibility that I'm wrong?

And if lying somehow makes you look more townie, wouldn't you do that?

And how does lying about that make me look more townie?

Please state, precisely, why the way I have behaved makes me more likely to be scum. Don't say "after post X, it gets worse." Don't say "either your case is wrong, or your scum and your case is right," because that doesn't make sense and doesn't really encompass all the possibilities.

[Mizzy]

So am I being wishy washy about eldarad, or completely disregarding the possibility that I'm wrong?

Either you can't read or you are being belligerent on purpose. About the possibility that you are wrong and, in that specific post I mentioned, about your opinions on the item claim in general. You use a lot of open-ended wording that says either you are unsure but stubborn about your opinion, or you are trying, on purpose, not to look too sure of yourself.

And how does lying about that make me look more townie?

I didn't say it would be a good idea of you to do, just a plausible one.

Please state, precisely, why the way I have behaved makes me more likely to be scum. Don't say "after post X, it gets worse." Don't say "either your case is wrong, or your scum and your case is right," because that doesn't make sense and doesn't really encompass all the possibilities.

Doesn't encompass all the possibilities? Pot, kettle, kettle, pot.

No, I am not going to state my case/opinions again because I already have, multiple times. If you have questions about my case points, ask, but something that broad that seems more like you are stalling than anything else is not something I'm going to bother with. I have limited enough time to play lately and I am not going to waste it playing dance-around-the-topic with you.

[Skruffs]

*cough y is scum cough*

[Mizzy]

*cough y is scum cough*

I'm not entirely convinced of that, yet. I am pretty convinced about TSPN, though. Especially considering that TSPN threw the first stone during what is most certainly LYLO. I can't see a townie doing that right now.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You use a lot of open-ended wording that says either you are unsure but stubborn about your opinion, or you are trying, on purpose, not to look too sure of yourself.

I guess unsure but stubborn, in the lack of any kind of evidence that convinces me otherwise, is fair. Now make the connection between unsure and stubborn, because just because you say you've done it don't make it true.

No, I am not going to state my case/opinions again because I already have, multiple times.

You've stated your opinions. You haven't stated your case. Why are you so uncomfortable doing so if you're so confident I'm scum? Shouldn't your case be pretty good?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

*cough y is scum cough*

Is there

anything

implausible about a y-mizzy-eldarad group? I'm feeling like I can take that to the bank.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Also, sorry for the triple post, but I'm going to be out of town this weekend until Sunday. I'll try to check the game before I leave in the morning, but in case I don't have time, you may not hear from me for a few days.

[Y]

He wasn't voting Eldarad but he seems to be saying that he helped lynch him. However, both of his posts were trying ot encourage eldarad to explain himself so as to give Y a reason *not* to vote.

Here's the other votes Y has made in the game, two of them on now-confirmed townies... <SNIP>

The town is a group. Whatever we do, we do as a group. We win or lose together. Me not casting a vote, doesn't put me out of the group. If the town, as a whole, decides to do something, we all get the consequences.
If we're really in LYLO and we kill a townie by mistake, we all lose, doesn't matter who actually voted or not.

Of those two, only one got lynched, and the person to push the hardest against him is the other one. So, what's your point there?

I hate to repeat myself, but I really think we should be careful about who we lynch. I know the deadline and all, but we got ourselves some time with the eldarad lynch, we should really think about what we're doing before we do so.
I can see TSPN as scum, but I want to be really sure. We don't have too many people to lose...

[Mizzy]

Is there

anything

implausible about a y-mizzy-eldarad group? I'm feeling like I can take that to the bank.

OMGUS much? Not to mention that last sentence in there feels like you're trying to conjure up any scumgroup just so you don't die. Need another mislynch so you can win, eh?

And actually, I DID already state my case. Fetch.

[hasdgfas]

*cough y is scum cough*

Is there

anything

implausible about a y-mizzy-eldarad group? I'm feeling like I can take that to the bank.

I don't know. How about you try to convince us of it since most people are thinking you're the scummy one.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I don't know. How about you try to convince us of it since most people are thinking you're the scummy one.

Fair enough. Mizzy, I'm done arguing with you about your case that isn't.

If I'm scum, who am I scum with?

[Mizzy]

If I'm scum, who am I scum with?

As far as I am concerned, today's lynch is all that matters. I think we may still be in lylo (correct me if I am wrong) and so if we lynch wrong today it doesn't matter who your buddy is. You are common denominator in all plausible pairings in my eyes (and in Yos2's opinion, which I hold in very high regard) and so you should be the lynch.

Just so you can't accuse me of dodging again, if I HAD to say today and right now, I'd vote the scumgroup as being eld/andy/cow (now dead/TSPN/cow) or eld/andy/Y (now dead/TSPN/Y). Hence why you are the common denominator.